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Xero C1 Pro - v3.30 update

Garmin

Garmin

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Feb 4, 2021
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#1
Last week we released v3.30 for the Xero C1 chronograph. While adding some new functionality to simplify gathering data downrange, we introduced a bug that caused shots to be missed.

We have resolved the issue and a new version of software, v3.32 has been released today. We apologize for the inconvenience.

The new Downrange Mode in the Pro Settings can be used to verify or determine a true long range BC. By placing a second unit downrange (ex. 300 yards) and getting the velocity downrange as well as at the muzzle you can use your ballistic calculator to vary the BC until you find a match for the velocities at the distance you used. Downrange Mode will cause the display of the unit to flash black/white when it records a shot so you can more easily tell when the downrange unit has detected the shot.
 
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#2
Great news, but would you PLEASE, PLEASE make it so that we can re-activate a String once we have left it and come back to it, and continue to collect/add more shots to it?

It is very common to need to collect data on more than one rifle or load in a session, but a rifle or suppressor may need to cool before all data collection is finished. In this instance most people will begin to collect data on the next rifle while the first one cools, so a new session is started. When the second rifle needs to pause for cooling, the Xero will not allow you to re-open the previous session and continue adding to it. This is very inconvenient, and seems like something that would be very easy to fix. One things for sure, more people will find this useful than the BC calc option.

Thanks for listening!
 
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#5
vh20 said:
Great news, but would you PLEASE, PLEASE make it so that we can re-activate a String once we have left it and come back to it, and continue to collect/add more shots to it?

It is very common to need to collect data on more than one rifle or load in a session, but a rifle or suppressor may need to cool before all data collection is finished. In this instance most people will begin to collect data on the next rifle while the first one cools, so a new session is started. When the second rifle needs to pause for cooling, the Xero will not allow you to re-open the previous session and continue adding to it. This is very inconvenient, and seems like something that would be very easy to fix. One things for sure, more people will find this useful than the BC calc option.

Thanks for listening!
Click to expand...
+1 million!
 
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#7
Garmin said:
Last week we released v3.30 for the Xero C1 chronograph. While adding some new functionality to simplify gathering data downrange, we introduced a bug that caused shots to be missed.

We have resolved the issue and a new version of software, v3.32 has been released today. We apologize for the inconvenience.

The new Downrange Mode in the Pro Settings can be used to verify or determine a true long range BC. By placing a second unit downrange (ex. 300 yards) and getting the velocity downrange as well as at the muzzle you can use your ballistic calculator to vary the BC until you find a match for the velocities at the distance you used. Downrange Mode will cause the display of the unit to flash black/white when it records a shot so you can more easily tell when the downrange unit has detected the shot.
Click to expand...
If you see the responses to my request, you will see The People, and apparently the Loch Ness Monster (@db2000), have spoken! Please let us know if this is something you can help us with!
 
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#8
Chatting with a buddy of mine at the range yesterday while testing and confirming the problem with 3.30. His ask for an enhancement is to add the functionality of taking a target picture that can be attached to the session on ShotView app. Curious as to the why there is a need to add more shots to a ended session. I mean how many shots in total are really needed for load development?
 
#11
AZgeek said:
Chatting with a buddy of mine at the range yesterday while testing and confirming the problem with 3.30. His ask for an enhancement is to add the functionality of taking a target picture that can be attached to the session on ShotView app. Curious as to the why there is a need to add more shots to a ended session. I mean how many shots in total are really needed for load development?
Click to expand...
20 at least but 30 is better for a statistically relevant SD per the Hornady ballisticians.
 
#16
AZgeek said:
Curious as to the why there is a need to add more shots to a ended session. I mean how many shots in total are really needed for load development?
Click to expand...
Is this a serious question? After 5 shots with a capable suppressed ELR cartridge you’re already getting into suppressor/barrel-induced mirage and it needs to cool. Do you think you’re getting an accurate ES/SD from 5 shots? If you do, shoot 5, let it cool 10 minutes while you record the result, then shoot another 5 added to the first 5 in the same session, let it cool another 10 minutes as you record the result, then shoot another 5 without closing the session. Compare 5 vs 15 and see what you see. Occasionally it’s the same if you have the load perfectly tuned, but often you’ll see the numbers double or more vs 5 shots. Then you know what you actually have.
Now, notice all the time wasted waiting for the rifle to cool which you could have used to gather data on another rifle if you could switch back and forth and reactivate sessions.

So, after answering your question, I’ll ask you the same thing - how many shot do you think are needed?
 
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#19
vh20 said:
Is this a serious question? After 5 shots with a capable suppressed ELR cartridge you’re already getting into suppressor/barrel-induced mirage and it needs to cool. Do you think you’re getting an accurate ES/SD from 5 shots? If you do, shoot 5, record the result, then shoot another 5 added to the first 5 in the same session, then shoot another 5 without closing the session. Compare 5 vs 15 and see what you see. Occasionally it’s the same if you have the load perfectly tuned, but often you’ll see the numbers double or more vs 5 shots. Then you know what you actually have.
Click to expand...
It is a serous question. I get what your saying. Can you not export the data from ShotView and throw it in a spreadsheet to include multiple sessions and just do the calculations? Certainly not a simple work around but it can be done.
 
#22
AZgeek said:
It is a serous question. I get what you’re saying. Can you not export the data from ShotView and throw it in a spreadsheet to include multiple sessions and just do the calculations? Certainly not a simple work around but it can be done.
Click to expand...
Garmin is wasting their time doing useless updates that crash the system to give you a worthless BC (based off of what,100 yds of performance?). This cannot compare to an Applied Ballistics CDM done with a Doppler that costs well over $100K out to distances as far as we can shoot. WHY would I want to screw around with exporting data into spreadsheets and computing it myself when the unit I already purchased could do it if properly programmed? It CANNOT give me a useful BC based off the 100-ish yards it has the power to measure, but it ABSOLUTELY could give me an accurate measurement of my ES/SD if I could reactivate the session after the rifle has cooled. I really don’t get your resistance to the idea of adding a simple feature that EVERYONE I know with a Garmin wants, and not understanding the value of that feature. If you look back through threads, this THE big request for an update.
 
#23
vh20 said:
Garmin is wasting their time doing useless updates that crash the system to give you a worthless BC (based off of what,100 yds of performance?). This cannot compare to an Applied Ballistics CDM done with a Doppler that costs well over $100K out to distances as far as we can shoot. WHY would I want to screw around with exporting data into spreadsheets and computing it myself when the unit I already purchased could do it if properly programmed? It CANNOT give me a useful BC based off the 100-ish yards it has the power to measure, but it ABSOLUTELY could give me an accurate measurement of my ES/SD if I could reactivate the session after the rifle has cooled. I really don’t get your resistance to the idea of adding a simple feature that EVERYONE I know with a Garmin wants, and not understanding the value of that feature. If you look back through threads, this THE big request for an update.
Click to expand...
I'm sure Garmin is monitoring this thread. I can't speak for Garmin nor do I pretend to understand what % of their user base is requesting this feature request. Maybe "everyone" is a smaller sampling than you think. So why bark at me? Like I have any say in any of this.
 
#24
vh20 said:
Garmin is wasting their time doing useless updates that crash the system to give you a worthless BC (based off of what,100 yds of performance?). This cannot compare to an Applied Ballistics CDM done with a Doppler that costs well over $100K out to distances as far as we can shoot. WHY would I want to screw around with exporting data into spreadsheets and computing it myself when the unit I already purchased could do it if properly programmed? It CANNOT give me a useful BC based off the 100-ish yards it has the power to measure, but it ABSOLUTELY could give me an accurate measurement of my ES/SD if I could reactivate the session after the rifle has cooled. I really don’t get your resistance to the idea of adding a simple feature that EVERYONE I know with a Garmin wants, and not understanding the value of that feature. If you look back through threads, this THE big request for an update.
Click to expand...
Well, they could spend the time adding a feature that users actually need, or... they could spend minimum effort writing a firmware update that just flashes the screen and call it down range mode in an effort to sell more units because, well, you need a second Xero in order to make use of that "feature".
 
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#26
Reopening the session would be very useful for the majority of the users. Also if the series stay open until you manually close them will be handy if you shoot at a public range with seize fire periods that don't depend on you. Like Magnetospeed.
 
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#28
ma smith said:
Nobody's barking at you. It just seems slightly odd. I mean the garmin is a data gathering device. You don't always want the partitions they give you buy default.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. I'm not resistant to anything you say you need. My needs are not the same as yours. When I reflect back at other solutions from say Magnetospeed or Labradar, Garmin is way ahead of the game. For a device that costs 600 bucks what it does is amazing. Maybe this down range secondary device is a sign of better things to come? Maybe its a stepping stone to something new? IDK. I think your comment about the C1 being a gathering device is spot on. Its not a historical repository IMHO. Perhaps the data aggregation to meet your needs will be done at the Shotview app level. Totally speculating here but I hope either way they figure out a way to make it happen.
 
#29
AZgeek said:
I'm sure Garmin is monitoring this thread. I can't speak for Garmin nor do I pretend to understand what % of their user base is requesting this feature request. Maybe "everyone" is a smaller sampling than you think. So why bark at me? Like I have any say in any of this.
Click to expand...
No one is “barking” at you. You questioned my reasoning for requesting a very useful update they haven’t done, while adding other useful features that are virtually worthless. You somewhat cynically asked how many shots I thought were required to establish a meaningful ES/SD and I answered. I asked you the same question and you haven’t answered. As for percentage of people wanting this feature, read this thread and the responses. Maybe “everyone” is a lot larger sampling than you think.
 
#32
AZgeek said:
Multiple 5 shot groups meets my needs and now your just looking to pick a fight ahole. I suggested a work around I have tried given the current capabilities the C1. And I no longer give a shit what you think or say.
Click to expand...
Bud, five shot data strings are worthless. Your work around is retarded. Who the fuck has time for downloading files and doing other boomer shit on a computer. @Garmin needs to make it possible to add data to a string. If it comes to picking fights, I’m with the other guy.
 
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#33
AZgeek said:
Multiple 5 shot groups meets my needs and now your just looking to pick a fight ahole. I suggested a work around I have tried given the current capabilities the C1. And I no longer give a shit what you think or say.
Click to expand...
I have only responded to you in the same tone you have to me. I asked Garmin to add a much-needed feature and you felt the need to step in and say it isn't needed. I figured you were one who based your performance off of 5-shot strings. Now you have confirmed it and that makes sense - you haven't learned the reality of it yet.

I'm not "picking a fight", you called me out and I responded. I'm not calling you names, but you are to me. Your "workaround" is cumbersome and pointless when the company could easily provide the solution within the unit itself. I am not surprised by the rest of your response, because it is exactly what I expected it to devolve in to from your first response. You do not like people speaking to you in the same tone you do to them. Virtually everything I've said to you is just a mirror image of your response to me (minus the name-calling).

And again, I find it strange why anyone would fight against the idea of adding a useful feature to the unit that must be well within its capabilities.
 
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#34
I was devastated when I saw my Xero working at Labradarish performances. Was useful to realise how good it has been over the last fourteen months…
When it comes to ‘append mode’ to a session I am afraid is a little trickier than it seems. IMHO means that the thing must have some sort of advanced knowledge of what a file system is, not sure if it is capable of. Utility of that feature is out of question, again IMHO.
 
#35
vh20 said:
After 5 shots with a capable suppressed ELR cartridge you’re already getting into suppressor/barrel-induced mirage and it needs to cool. Do you think you’re getting an accurate ES/SD from 5 shots? If you do, shoot 5, let it cool 10 minutes while you record the result, then shoot another 5 added to the first 5 in the same session, let it cool another 10 minutes as you record the result, then shoot another 5 without closing the session. Compare 5 vs 15 and see what you see. Occasionally it’s the same if you have the load perfectly tuned, but often you’ll see the numbers double or more vs 5 shots. Then you know what you actually have.
Now, notice all the time wasted waiting for the rifle to cool which you could have used to gather data on another rifle if you could switch back and forth and reactivate sessions.
Click to expand...
This right here ^^^ is the best explanation for why it would be beneficial to re-activate a string. When shooting multiple rifles it would be nice to switch back and forth after allowing one rifle to cool, etc.

While I am not a huge fan of Chai-knees, the fact that Athlon now has a similar product and if they happen to add this feature... just saying. I much prefer my Garmin but with similar products coming in, it would be good to see some of these requests taken more seriously as competition begins to heat up.

Since @Garmin started this thread, it would be nice to see a response. However, in light of the thread being about a v3.30 update (which I greatly appreciate their attentiveness to "fix" the issue that caused their units to falter with regard to reliability) I also understand this may not be the best place for these requests so if @Garmin has a suggestion where we can better request some of these features I think that would be helpful.
 
#36
vh20 said:
Garmin is wasting their time doing useless updates that crash the system to give you a worthless BC (based off of what,100 yds of performance?). This cannot compare to an Applied Ballistics CDM done with a Doppler that costs well over $100K out to distances as far as we can shoot. WHY would I want to screw around with exporting data into spreadsheets and computing it myself when the unit I already purchased could do it if properly programmed? It CANNOT give me a useful BC based off the 100-ish yards it has the power to measure, but it ABSOLUTELY could give me an accurate measurement of my ES/SD if I could reactivate the session after the rifle has cooled. I really don’t get your resistance to the idea of adding a simple feature that EVERYONE I know with a Garmin wants, and not understanding the value of that feature. If you look back through threads, this THE big request for an update.
Click to expand...


I don't have a 100k unit, and Applied Ballistics does not have BC for my barrel, my ammunition, with my environmentals.

Comes in to play as AB can build these custom, but not everyone can get them, etc. Seems particularly valuable with rimfire long range from my experience.

In any event, not valuable to you. But valuable to me for my interests in use case so I appreciate Garmin building the functionality and looking forward to improvements in this space from them in the future.
 
#37
Wall_Element said:
I don't have a 100k unit, and Applied Ballistics does not have BC for my barrel, my ammunition, with my environmentals.

Comes in to play as AB can build these custom, but not everyone can get them, etc. Seems particularly valuable with rimfire long range from my experience.

In any event, not valuable to you. But valuable to me for my interests in use case so I appreciate Garmin building the functionality and looking forward to improvements in this space from them in the future.
Click to expand...
The thing is, did Garmin really add a feature that is functional for your use case? Seems like you could have always used a second unit to gather down range velocities, the only thing they added here was the ability to turn on a flashing screen. Big deal. I would personally be embarrassed to call that a feature if I was a Garmin engineer.

Wake me up when they give us the ability to track the data from multiple units live in the app. Maybe then I will buy a second unit.
 
#38
Garmin said:
Last week we released v3.30 for the Xero C1 chronograph. While adding some new functionality to simplify gathering data downrange, we introduced a bug that caused shots to be missed.

We have resolved the issue and a new version of software, v3.32 has been released today. We apologize for the inconvenience.

The new Downrange Mode in the Pro Settings can be used to verify or determine a true long range BC. By placing a second unit downrange (ex. 300 yards) and getting the velocity downrange as well as at the muzzle you can use your ballistic calculator to vary the BC until you find a match for the velocities at the distance you used. Downrange Mode will cause the display of the unit to flash black/white when it records a shot so you can more easily tell when the downrange unit has detected the shot.
Click to expand...
Thank you for fixing this quickly.... being at the Range Friday when it came out and Sunday... I was getting very miffed since I was working up some loads of ray wires rifle. NOW this weekend will go differently (hopefully!) Thanks.
 
#39
AZgeek said:
Chatting with a buddy of mine at the range yesterday while testing and confirming the problem with 3.30. His ask for an enhancement is to add the functionality of taking a target picture that can be attached to the session on ShotView app. Curious as to the why there is a need to add more shots to an ended session. I mean how many shots in total are really needed for load development?
Click to expand...
So how do you shoot a round robins during LD w a Garmin.

I too think this is a highly desirable feature request.
 
#40
I for one appreciate @Garmin for stepping up to fix the problem everyone was having quickly. The last radar company I used before it died would not have for sometime, if ever. Support with them was horrible at best. While there is a new competitor on the way, it helps builds innovation in our sport. I happy with the Xero and what it does.
 
#41
ma smith said:
+1

This is especially true when you are/were limited to 50 sessions...
every partition then eats up your session limit..and its all un-necessary.

Just my $0.02
Click to expand...

The limit of 50 is a non-issue for most. I keep my phone open to download strings and add notes in the app as I go.

I don't know why you wouldn't at least be downloading them to the phone where it's basically endless storage.
 
#44
I was really really really hoping Athlon's new chrono had restart string capability, and if it did, I would of jumped ship to Athlon from Garmin.
I am also one of the guys that can benefit from being able to restart a string. Last weekend I bought 3 suppressed rifles with me. 3 rifles, 3 strings. Shoot 1 rifle on string 1, shoot rifle 2 on string 2, shoot rifle 3 on string 3, go back to rifle 1 and string 1, repeat. All 3 rifles would be shot within 1 minute (giving the same rifle a 1 minute break).
 
#45
vh20 said:
I have only responded to you in the same tone you have to me. I asked Garmin to add a much-needed feature and you felt the need to step in and say it isn't needed. I figured you were one who based your performance off of 5-shot strings. Now you have confirmed it and that makes sense - you haven't learned the reality of it yet.

I'm not "picking a fight", you called me out and I responded. I'm not calling you names, but you are to me. Your "workaround" is cumbersome and pointless when the company could easily provide the solution within the unit itself. I am not surprised by the rest of your response, because it is exactly what I expected it to devolve in to from your first response. You do not like people speaking to you in the same tone you do to them. Virtually everything I've said to you is just a mirror image of your response to me (minus the name-calling).

And again, I find it strange why anyone would fight against the idea of adding a useful feature to the unit that must be well within its capabilities.
Click to expand...
"fighting against the idea the idea of a useful feature" is a figment of your imagination. In fact today I figured out a way to provide feedback to directly Garmin through their website Garmin.com. I made two enhancement suggestion, one of which I made on your behalf. And your welcome.
 
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#46
AZgeek said:
"fighting against the idea the idea of a useful feature" is a figment of your imagination. In fact today I figured out a way to provide feedback to directly Garmin through their website Garmin.com. I made two enhancement suggestion, one of which I made on your behalf. And your welcome.
Click to expand...
Thanks!
 
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