Night Vision Yep…another “what thermal scanner” for a newbie.

[BgBmBoo]

Hi folks.
I am new to the whole thermal world. But have read a bunch here and other forums.

I’m looking at the Super Yoter for a scope but from what I have read, a dedicated scanner is very important.

I‘m not a money Is no object kinda guy, but like to get good equipment.

Thanks in advance.

 

[P&Y]

Good call on the yoter. I'd go with the phenom and keep it all Bering Optics. I haven't got to look through a phenom yet but was impressed with the yoter.

Although I would never recommend Pulsar anything I have a Lexion which is good overall. I like the rechargeable battery and fov. I don't like it's bigger size and don't care to have a recording option. (streamvision has never worked for me or anyone I know on any of their stuff anyways)

 

[P&Y]

If your budget factors in I'd recommend going as good as you can on the scanner and settle some on the rifle scope. Your scanner will be your most used tool.

 

[BgBmBoo]

I was looking at the Nvion Atlas for a scanner

 

[P&Y]

I'm leery of the binocular style scanners because I'm really blinded when taking my eye off the scanner. To me it would leave me feeling disoriented going to the rifle scope if that makes any sense

 

[Killswitch Engage]

hands free head mounted scanning is the way. the more people i turn onto it the more things they see and kill. walking in on set scanning is a huge benefit vs scanning occasionally. keeping your hands free, warm and shoulders/arms from being torched from holding up a scanner all night is invaluable to me.

nvision nox, ir patrol, iray mh25 is where its at. you can custom fab something like the hogster to helmet mount if necessary as well.

 

[GreenMushroom]

I was looking at the Nvion Atlas for a scanner

2 nox35. Can have one as monocular and one on your rifle or snap both into a bridge for real binos. Would be a little more than atlas/yoter but not that much.

 

[rlsmith1]

How far do you want to detect dogs / pigs? What part of the country are you in?

In perfect thermal conditions, the NOX18 punches above its weight class for detection. I’ve seen cattle at 1,500 yds easily and conditions weren’t even that great. The ability to helmet and weapon mount it are huge pluses too. If you can swing the price I’d go NOX18 or 35. Crazy durable and beautiful image. Others may do the same but that’s what I know. If weapon or head mounting isn’t important, something handheld would probably work. I am about 50/50 on how I use it

 

[stefan73]

I have been thinking about the NOX-18 and/or Breach to pair with my PVS-14.

 

[rlsmith1]

NOX is awesome and bombproof. Heads and shoulders above the breach from what I’ve heard. If it’s in the budget not sure you can go wrong

 

[BgBmBoo]

Thank you all for the input.

I hunt coyotes and hunt pretty open areas...south eastern Oregon, northern Nevada, central Idaho.

Trying to keep the budget around $10K for the scope and scanner.

Never thought about the binos causing night blindness...see....great info to be had here.

 

[rlsmith1]

You should be able to keep it close to $10k if you hunt around for used. I've seen Halo LR's for $6k or so used but no one is selling their NOX's!

 

[BgBmBoo]

Prefer to buy new.

I would like to buy all Nvison but not in the books right now.

 

[Evolution 9]

Having hunted similar Idaho terrain, do NOT get a 1X scanner. You’ll constantly be switching to your rifle’s magnified thermal to ID things.

Nox 35 or Halo LR on the gun,Super Hogster for scanning (and now you have a backup scope).

In budget and will suit your open terrain perfectly.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

used halo LR with a few years of warranty left is a great way to go. for your budget i would snag up a nox and a lower end weapon sight like a hogster or some shit. you could get it done for your budget pretty easily.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Having hunted similar Idaho terrain, do NOT get a 1X scanner. You’ll constantly be switching to your rifle’s magnified thermal to ID things.

Nox 35 or Halo LR on the gun,Super Hogster for scanning (and now you have a backup scope).

In budget and will suit your open terrain perfectly.

thats how you should be doing it anyhow. scanning is for scanning. true ID is from the gun.

 

[GreenMushroom]

Having hunted similar Idaho terrain, do NOT get a 1X scanner. You’ll constantly be switching to your rifle’s magnified thermal to ID things.

Nox 35 or Halo LR on the gun,Super Hogster for scanning (and now you have a backup scope).

In budget and will suit your open terrain perfectly.

+1. We have 18s and they're great for the west side of the state but you're going to want something with more legs out in the desert. The above would work good but I'd try an squeeze a yoter into your budget in place of the hogster. Call around and ask about prices. The listed price isn't always the price you pay. A nox35 and yoter r or c is probably going to put you over budget but maybe not by as much as you think.

 

[Evolution 9]

thats how you should be doing it anyhow. scanning is for scanning. true ID is from the gun.

I should have been more clear. In the flatter parts of Oregon and Idaho, there’s almost no point in a 1X scanner. I’ve tried several. Differentiating between rocks, dirt mounds, ant hills, etc, and animals at the distances involved is often not possible in the hours right after sundown. Hundreds of false positives. Your arms get tired from constantly switching to the rifle for better magnification.

2.5X has been perfect for me. Some in our area like more.

 

[Tactical Taz]

I should have been more clear. In the flatter parts of Oregon and Idaho, there’s almost no point in a 1X scanner. I’ve tried several. Differentiating between rocks, dirt mounds, ant hills, etc, and animals at the distances involved is often not possible in the hours right after sundown. Hundreds of false positives. Your arms get tired from constantly switching to the rifle for better magnification.

2.5X has been perfect for me. Some in our area like more.

What are the distances you are referring to here?

 

[Evolution 9]

In my area, it’s not at all uncommon to be able to see a few miles. I’ve spotted wolves at over a mile and knew they weren’t warm rocks. Coyotes at 1100 yards. Not happening with a 1X.

Many times, my 2.5X and 3X scanners have identified badger heads sticking out of holes, sitting coyotes, skunks, and more at about 200 to 400 yards that my UTM couldn’t even see, or could barely see, and definitely couldn’t differentiate from rocks.

1X is better than nothing here, but pretty limited.

 

[Chargerguy]

How important is the FOV on a handheld scanner? At what point would you drop down in lens diameter and magnification to gain some FOV?

 

[Evolution 9]

How important is the FOV on a handheld scanner? At what point would you drop down in lens diameter and magnification to gain some FOV?

Depends on your terrain, quarry, and how you will use it.

Head mounting? 1X

Close, treed in terrain, 1X

If your terrain offers lots of false positives like rocks and you can see several hundred yards, 2.5-3X

The rocks on the hill are at 500 yards. One of them is a laying down coyote. With a 1X scanner there is zero hope of knowing that. (Cell phone pic taken through Reap-ir or Halo LR i forget which). That’s a Tibetan yak bull.

 

[GreenMushroom]

I have a phenom 2.5x that's around 12.5° similar to a nox35. It's decent for medium close. Much narrower and it gets easy to lose your place. If I had a 35 and a yoter I would run the yoter which is around 9° on the rifle and the 35 as a scanner. The wider fov will help and to my eyes nothing pops like the Nvision white hot setting for detection.

There's also something to be said for having an iray and a bae core. I've never done any kind of study on it but some nights one sucks and the other works and the next night it might be the reverse.

 

[shoots100]

Depends on your terrain, quarry, and how you will use it.

Head mounting? 1X

Close, treed in terrain, 1X

If your terrain offers lots of false positives like rocks and you can see several hundred yards, 2.5-3X

The rocks on the hill are at 500 yards. One of them is a laying down coyote. With a 1X scanner there is zero hope of knowing that. (Cell phone pic taken through Reap-ir or Halo LR i forget which). That’s a Tibetan yak bullView attachment 7766813

You won't know it's a coyote by looking at the pic, but when your actively spotting and see it move, you know it's something alive and usually, rocks don't move.
Even a 2-3x thermal spotter at 500 is hard to get an ID a yote, without it moving and getting eyes on it with proper NV.
That's why it's a spotter and also why my thermal spotters are 384 and scopes 640.
Buy the best you can afford now and get on em, as whatever you buy, there's always going to be something better coming down the pike and you'll be sitting on the side lines forever.

 

[Evolution 9]

You won't know it's a coyote by looking at the pic, but when your actively spotting and see it move, you know it's something alive and usually, rocks don't move.
Even a 2-3x thermal spotter at 500 is hard to get an ID a yote, without it moving and getting eyes on it with proper NV.
That's why it's a spotter and also why my thermal spotters are 384 and scopes 640.
Buy the best you can afford now and get on em, as whatever you buy, there's always going to be something better coming down the pike and you'll be sitting on the side lines forever.

Certainly, get whatever you think makes sense for the way you hunt and the area you hunt.

I tried 1X. All it told me most days was, “yep, there’s still dozens of glowing things out there”. My whole AO was like that pic. Several thousand acres. There was literally no point in verifying that the rocks still glowed with a 1X. After every scan, I’d have to bring up the rifle for a closer inspection of the “rocks”, so there was no point.

I tried 3X. Much more often it at least told me something was alive out there. There comes a distance at which a coyote doesn’t even make a white pixel in a 1X but is still recognizable to a 3X (same core).

Much of my scanning was from a moving (55 mph) vehicle, so looking for movement wasn’t a main indicator.

 

[kirsch]

What works best as a scope and scanner has a huge dependance on the terrain a person hunts and what they are hunting, What works well for coyotes in the open plains of ND and MT is not ideal for the wooded areas of ME. What a person uses for coyotes is often the opposite of works well for hogs.

In most situations, (not all), for calling coyotes, having a wider FOV scanner and a narrower FOV scope with higher magnification is the best combination. For stalking hogs, you want to know they are hogs from a long way away, and if are stalking, after the first shot they scatter and often a wide FOV scope helps with harvesting more hogs.

Also, smaller lens size leads to wider FOVs, and higher resolution leads to wider FOV.

Coyotes: For coyotes, a person is using the scanner 98% of the time. Also, as mentioned earlier a wider FOV is often important. I also agree with many 1x to me is too wide and you lack ID and depth perception. I prefer a scanner from about 1.4x to 2.5x and 11° to about 15°. This is for my hunting and my terrain. I would rather scan with a 640 and shoot with a 384 (if I had to choose 640 for only one). My scope I like it to have around a 3x or higher magnification, but I don't like going for less than a7.5° FOV for the gun due to multiples coming to the stand. Standing vs sitting can impact if you would be OK with going helmet mounted vs handheld, etc

Hogs: For hogs, the opposite can be true. ID at long range, and a wide FOV for shooting.

Talk to a knowledgeable dealer and let them know how you hunt and the terrain you hunt in, and they can help you get into a good combination that suites you. Just like there isn't one gun that works great for every type of hunting, the same can be said for thermal.

I'm currently using a Bering Optic Phenom (13° FOV) as a scanner and a Bering Optics Super Yoter (8.5° FOV) for my scope. This a nice combination for coyote hunting open plains. These are both kind of middle of the road as far as FOV so they could be used for hogs or coyotes, but the scope is called the Super Yoter for a reason. Typically, people like more magnification for their coyote scopes as already mentioned.

 

[Undrgrndprdcts]

I cannot believe how expensive it is to get into coyote hunting at night. 2k for a scanner and 2k for a mounted optic is considered budget and almost frowned upon. I've been wanting to do this for years, finally got a pvs-14 for general moving and am still coping with the price for something I haven't used yet.

 

[rlsmith1]

But when you do it’s like a superpower. Can you put a price on that??

 

[shoots100]

I cannot believe how expensive it is to get into coyote hunting at night. 2k for a scanner and 2k for a mounted optic is considered budget and almost frowned upon. I've been wanting to do this for years, finally got a pvs-14 for general moving and am still coping with the price for something I haven't used yet.

Way back when, there weren't any hand held uncooled scanners and a decent (barely useable) uncooled 160 res scope cost three times what a budget 384 res scope costs now.
Your on your way with the 14, but if your not using thermal, your missing out on a lot.

 

[kirsch]

I always find it ironic many local guys drive by with their 70K+ fishing boats to recreationally catch a few fish and they scoff at the idea at spending 5-10K on a thermal setup. Hobbies can be expensive. No one is making any person buy thermal, but for those that really like night hunting, it can be an awesome past time. Be prepared to never have a good sleep pattern again.

 

[Undrgrndprdcts]

I always find it ironic many local guys drive by with their 70K+ fishing boats to recreationally catch a few fish and they scoff at the idea at spending 5-10K on a thermal setup. Hobbies can be expensive. No one is making any person buy thermal, but for those that really like night hunting, it can be an awesome past time. Be prepared to never have a good sleep pattern again.

I dont have a boat or any other expensive hobbies. Hunting and shooting are my hobbies. Just not used to how much more night time activities cost than daylight ones.

 

[Tactical Taz]

Okay, dumb question but does digital zoom on the 1x scanner help to alleviate any of the issues or reasons some prefer the 2-3x scanners above? I assume 2x digital on a 1x scanner looks more pixelated and understand it wouldn't be the same as the native 2-3x, but does it help somewhat from a practical perspective?

 

[Evolution 9]

Okay, dumb question but does digital zoom on the 1x scanner help to alleviate any of the issues or reasons some prefer the 2-3x scanners above? I assume 2x digital on a 1x scanner looks more pixelated and understand it wouldn't be the same as the native 2-3x, but does it help somewhat from a practical perspective?

Not a dumb question, but no, it doesn’t help for the reason you mentioned.