Yep another FNG trying to reload for the AR 15 questions.

[Bud8808]

Hello all, greetings from the still snowy Michigan. I have used these forums a lot for info on reloading, gear, optics and so on and appreciate the knowledge base here. Just started reloading and I have successfully loaded for my .270 bolt gun but now want to start some 5.56 rounds. Most of my brass has been fired in my weapon or my wife's. They are identical S&W MP-15s chambered for 5.56. I went to set up my dies today and I have resized a few pieces of brass but i failed to buy an ammo checker and I cant seem to find what the min and max case headspace is for this chamber. I measured my IMI 5.56 M193 55grn unfired ammo and I get 1.4520 to 1.4540. My once fired IMI brass measures 1.4595 to 1.4610. I resized some brass and I mostly get around 1.4530 but I had a couple come out as small as 1.4505. Am I getting it right here. In a bolt gun bump the shoulder put the brass in see if it fits cant really do that with the AR. I do know my once fired brass will not chamber. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[John Glidewell]

did you try searching forum. Or how about the sticky for the AR 15?

5.56 AR Only Loads

Post your 5.56 AR Loads here Ill Start off 23.6gr 8208XBR 77 SMK 1xLC Brass 205M 2710 20" WOA

www.snipershide.com

 

[spife7980]

Bullets dont have headspace. Headspace is the difference in the case shoulder and the chamber shoulder. No idea what an "ammo checker" is.

Keep the brass segregated. I promise you s&w isnt keeping tight enough tolerances to blindly say that both match and mix brass without first comparing measurements between the two. If you try to get a consistent number from inconsistent brass then youre gonna have a bad time.

Seems like you are supplying measurements for the shoulder set back, make it .002 smaller than your fired brass. Doesnt matter what some book spec says, what matters is what comes out of your rifle. If they are coming out fired as 1.460 then size it to 1.457 for the semiauto and see if it chambers. You most certainly can do that with an ar as youve already proven to yourself with that the fired brass doesnt comment.

 

[Bud8808]

did you try searching forum. Or how about the sticky for the AR 15?

5.56 AR Only Loads

Post your 5.56 AR Loads here Ill Start off 23.6gr 8208XBR 77 SMK 1xLC Brass 205M 2710 20" WOA

www.snipershide.com

yes i have looked I am watching the video from Elfster 1234 on headspace. My biggest concern is this is a semi auto just want too make sure im not going to far on the bump on my brass and that i can get it too chamber.

 

[MarshallDodge]

Like you, I have found that brass fired from an AR can be a bit difficult to get to size consistently. Annealing, consistent lube, and the way you operate your press can help but it depends on what your end goal is.

I would take the average of your fired brass and use that number, minus .003, to setup your sizing die.

 

[redbullitt]

Sometimes a small base die can help, or even a modified shell holder... depending on how shitty the brass you have is.

Lots of messy once fired brass can have springback issues, needing a little extra attention. Can be easy as be sure to hold press closed for a few seconds to needing to also mod the shell holder...

Sounds like you have known brass, so were i you, id simply make some dummy rounds and try in your rifles once you think you have it figured out. Think like plunk test in pistol. After that a feed and cycle test of dummy rounds can tell you more. If hanging up, sharpie the whole cartridge and retry to show where the issue likely is. You should be able to come up with a size that will run OK enough in both for first firing, then keep brass separate for each rifle for best results.

Unless you have some bad chamber issues, the .003 under fired mentioned above should work well. Your fired cases are great info... use it. The book values are guide posts, as is the ammo checker die. Those numbers should set you down near min spec. Probably fine for your rifles, but the fired brass wont lie!

 

[RMD45]

I have resized fired 5.56 NATO brass with .223 REM dies without an issue. I highly suggest you work to get components before diving full-send on equipment. Primers would be first goal, then powder, then projectiles.

 

[MarshallDodge]

I have resized fired 5.56 NATO brass with .223 REM dies without an issue. I highly suggest you work to get components before diving full-send on equipment. Primers would be first goal, then powder, then projectiles.

223 and 5.56 brass have the same outer dimensions so there isn't such a thing as a 5.56 die.

The difference between them is in the powder charge, and sometimes bullet choice.

 

[FLIGHT762]

O/P, your S&W Rifles are not match Rifles. Set you F/L die up to bump the fired case shoulders to about 1.455" (from you listed measurements). Make a couple of dummy rounds (no primer or powder) to be 100% sure they chamber easily in both Rifles. Bumping your cases to -.005" is not going to cause issues.

Since I have about 6 - AR-15 type rifles that have 223 Wilde, Colt and 5.56 NATO chambers, I set my F/L 223 die to shoulder bump close to SAAMI 223 minimum to be 100% sure they chamber in any of my rifles. I don't care about case life. If I get 4-5 loadings, I'm good with that. Primer pockets get loose before I get any case case head separations.

If you were using a Match rifle with a high grade barrel and Lapua brass, then I would take more precise fired case measurements and shoulder bump the fired cases to -.003".

Sometimes when you're getting various bumping measurements, it can be caused by inconsistent case lube application. I've found for bulk reloading, the Alcohol / Lanolin case lube works best for me.

 

[RMD45]

223 and 5.56 brass have the same outer dimensions so there isn't such a thing as a 5.56 die.

The difference between them is in the powder charge, and sometimes bullet choice.

Powder charge and bullet choice is enough difference too.

 

[Bud8808]

Yall are awesome thank you all for the feedback. Im using RCBS .223/5.56x45 SB T/C die set. I have the CCI 41 small military primers. I also have CCI 450s, Winchester Small Rifle, GM205m. Powders I have CFE223, IMR3031, Win 748 Ball, Ramshot TAC, H322 and Varget. Yeah I bought what I could find to fit 5.56 and some cross over to .308 as well. Bullets are Bobs 55grn fmj, Hornady 60grn Vmax and 55grn SP. I know its a bit all over the place but when powder was short i wasnt sure what I would be able to find. That is what im working with.

 

[MarshallDodge]

For those bullet weights, I would go with H322. H335 and A2230 are good ball powders for the 55-60 grain bullets.

Find some heavier, 69 or 77 grain bullets for the other powders. Don't expect much for accuracy from the 55 FMJ.

 

[Bud8808]

For those bullet weights, I would go with H322. H335 and A2230 are good ball powders for the 55-60 grain bullets.

Find some heavier, 69 or 77 grain bullets for the other powders. Don't expect much for accuracy from the 55 FMJ.

Those are my plinkers. I have seen some decent accuracy online with bobs bullets. Just want something to practice with and have fun. Thank you for all the advice and help.

 

[Bbracken667]

Loading for an AR is somewhat similar to loading for a semi auto pistol. Other considerations become so much more, such as feedability. If you can run commercial ammo without problem, you can use that as your guide. Then you can tweek to satisfy other aspects such as accuracy.

 

[Snuby642]

Those are my plinkers. I have seen some decent accuracy online with bobs bullets. Just want something to practice with and have fun. Thank you for all the advice and help.

The Bob's bullets with H335 regularly go sub 1/2 moa in my 20 inch upper. That's shooting on a bench with bags.

That's my favorite plinking round.

You can sort out any headstamp that is most available to you, be consistant in how you prep the brass then use that to play with changes one change at a time with those Bob's bullets.

Can't find anything for that price that comes close, and they are way better than hornadys cheap stuff. I don't even waste powder trying to beat that load anymore.

The H335 beat cfe223 and all the others in my barrel.

 

[Bbracken667]

The Bob's bullets with H335 regularly go sub 1/2 moa in my 20 inch upper. That's shooting on a bench with bags.

That's my favorite plinking round.

You can sort out any headstamp that is most available to you, be consistant in how you prep the brass then use that to play with changes one change at a time with those Bob's bullets.

Can't find anything for that price that comes close, and they are way better than hornadys cheap stuff. I don't even waste powder trying to beat that load anymore.

The H335 beat cfe223 and all the others in my barrel.

The thing I loved about the cfe223 was how clean it shot. I used it along with hBn bullet coating and rifle cleaning was a breeze. You just need to not go overboard loading too many of them due to CFE’s temp sensitivity. Easy to adjust for, but if you load a bunch there is no adjusting lol
CFE was also very accurate for me, and I shot it behind Hornady ELD match and Berger match bullets. They shot very nicely but I wouldn’t call them plinking rounds though. This was in my 224 Valkyrie.
My advice for the CFE is never push the upper range at all. Stay midrange MV- and charge-wise.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Screw Bob's Bullets. Out of a random 10 bullets. The whole 3k count order was like this. They wouldn't respond to any emails or messages.
I found 8 distinctly different bullet profiles in that order.

 

[Snuby642]

That would be about the same ammount in a hundred count of the hornady.

 

[MarshallDodge]

The Bob's bullets with H335 regularly go sub 1/2 moa in my 20 inch upper. That's shooting on a bench with bags.

That's my favorite plinking round.

You can sort out any headstamp that is most available to you, be consistant in how you prep the brass then use that to play with changes one change at a time with those Bob's bullets.

Can't find anything for that price that comes close, and they are way better than hornadys cheap stuff. I don't even waste powder trying to beat that load anymore.

The H335 beat cfe223 and all the others in my barrel.

5-shot groups? 100 yards?

And when you say typical, what do the other groups look like?

Color me skeptical, but I have never seen a 55 FMJ from any company, including Lapua, consistently shoot under an inch.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I've seen small length and weight variations with Hornady. I've never seen missing boat tails, different shape boat tails, missing cannelures, cannelures in completely different locations, varying ogive shapes, different meplat shapes, wildly varying length and weight with Hornady.
Disliking Hornady is one thing. Pretending that straight garbage bullets from Bob's aren't a problem is another.

 

[Bbracken667]

That would be about the same ammount in a hundred count of the hornady.

I have never seen variation like that from Hornady rifle bullets. I used to measure, weigh and group for consistency and to see if it made a difference on target. No discernible difference. The picture above is ridiculous.

 

[Snuby642]

Disliking Hornady is one thing. Pretending that straight garbage bullets from Bob's aren't a problem is another.

I have been using Bob's for 3 + years and not once saw any bullets that looked like that.
A few got dinged up in transit with the bulk packages but acceptable at the price point.

Did you try them out before ordering 3k worth?

Seriously those look like floor sweeping.

Weigh some of the cheap hornadys and get back to us. The Bob's were +/- 0.1gr I quit weighing them. The hornadys were +/- 0.3gr I quit buying them.

I probably won't get to shoot this weekend because we have fence to mend on two pastures but have some targets ready if the wind lays down from the 15 -30 mph with temps going into the teens again it may be to rough outside for me to shoot much at all. May just bust ice on the pond with the ax and call it a day with this weather.

But I got some guy calling me out saying I can't shoot so I will see if I can get some fresh pictures.

I would like to get an hour of decent weather to shoot my 52g 55g and new 69g on the same target sheet.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I have been using Bob's for 3 + years and not once saw any bullets that looked like that.
A few got dinged up in transit with the bulk packages but acceptable at the price point.

Did you try them out before ordering 3k worth?

Seriously those look like floor sweeping.

Yeah I'd been buying for about two years at that point. At least 10k of good bullets before that order. The junk bullets were in 2020 I think, right around the time they hiked the price up significantly.

 

[Bbracken667]

Yeah I'd been buying for about two years at that point. At least 10k of good bullets before that order. The junk bullets were in 2020 I think, right around the time they hiked the price up significantly.

In all honesty, if I were buying something called “Bob’s bullets” my expectations for quality would be rather low. For me, I don’t plink at all, so my needs are for little big distance superior quality bullets. Back when I was plinking I used to buy “seconds” from midway when they offered free shipping.

 

[MarshallDodge]

But I got some guy calling me out saying I can't shoot so I will see if I can get some fresh pictures.

If you are referring to my post, I said nothing about your ability to shoot. It was questioning the accuracy of the bullets.

 

[Snuby642]

If I had ever received any bullets from them that looked like the ones that @TonyTheTiger showed us I would not have wasted powder or primers on them.

I initially purchased some since they were cheap and I could experiment with powders and reloading variations. To my surprise I ended up with very accurate loads and help me refine my preparation on all loads.

The people I talked too at Bob's were polite and helpful. They did have some problems with covid bs and possibly that was the time frame of the shity batch TTT got hold of.

I need to check my stash to see what left and maybe call them.

Many of mine were handed out to family and some cached for round range.

It may have been TTT that got me to try them lol. He made suggestions on reloading to me when I got started on 223's.

 

[RUN8]

Hello all, greetings from the still snowy Michigan. I have used these forums a lot for info on reloading, gear, optics and so on and appreciate the knowledge base here. Just started reloading and I have successfully loaded for my .270 bolt gun but now want to start some 5.56 rounds. Most of my brass has been fired in my weapon or my wife's. They are identical S&W MP-15s chambered for 5.56. I went to set up my dies today and I have resized a few pieces of brass but i failed to buy an ammo checker and I cant seem to find what the min and max case headspace is for this chamber. I measured my IMI 5.56 M193 55grn unfired ammo and I get 1.4520 to 1.4540. My once fired IMI brass measures 1.4595 to 1.4610. I resized some brass and I mostly get around 1.4530 but I had a couple come out as small as 1.4505. Am I getting it right here. In a bolt gun bump the shoulder put the brass in see if it fits cant really do that with the AR. I do know my once fired brass will not chamber. Any advice would be appreciated.

You need to invest a few $$ into a case gauge, that will allow you to set your full length resizing die to turn out brass that is sized to minimum head space. That is the best way to ensure your finished ammo is dimensionally in spec for feeding in an autoloader.

Rifle Case Gauges

Rifle headspace case gauges assist in proper size die adjustment and in checking cases for whether they need to be trimmed. Essential for long case life, especially with semi-automatic firearms. Made of stainless steel for long life.

www.dillonprecision.com

 

[TonyTheTiger]

In all honesty, if I were buying something called “Bob’s bullets” my expectations for quality would be rather low. For me, I don’t plink at all, so my needs are for little big distance superior quality bullets. Back when I was plinking I used to buy “seconds” from midway when they offered free shipping.

Ehh, my requirements for 55gr loads are maybe 1.5moa. Most bullets can do that, and at the rate of up to 10k a year price is a significant consideration.

 

[Snuby642]

In all honesty, if I were buying something called “Bob’s bullets” my expectations for quality would be rather low. For me, I don’t plink at all, so my needs are for little big distance superior quality bullets. Back when I was plinking I used to buy “seconds” from midway when they offered free shipping.

Well let's see, you don't plink and have not tried Bob's bullets.

I'll give you a little run down.
They are sold as a plinking bullet and priced accordingly.

They have what most people would call a boat tail. But to me it's way better than that, I'll call it a modified flat base.

Target shooters know a flat base is more accurate at short distances. Reloaders know trying to run 55g flat base bullets in a progressive is a pita because they are hard to hold onto to get seating started.

Thier design sets down in a case but is mostly flat past that.

For a beginner to reloading I belive it to be a perfect choice for a short range (200 yd) performance bullet you can afford to mess up and learn with, in the end it is a sub moa bullet at 200 yards and less till drag sets in.

I don't think I know of another 12 cent (1000 count price) bullet that can match it.

 

[Doom]

You need to invest a few $$ into a case gauge, that will allow you to set your full length resizing die to turn out brass that is sized to minimum head space. That is the best way to ensure your finished ammo is dimensionally in spec for feeding in an autoloader.

Rifle Case Gauges

Rifle headspace case gauges assist in proper size die adjustment and in checking cases for whether they need to be trimmed. Essential for long case life, especially with semi-automatic firearms. Made of stainless steel for long life.

www.dillonprecision.com

About the worst issue I see as an RSO is a reload jammed in the chamber of semi auto rifle. Unlike a bolt action where there is some leverage to be able to extract a round the AR's don't have it. The best solution to prevent it is to use a small base day (since you have two rifles shooting the same caliber (and you will mix brass!) and set the datum dimension to match the maximum allowable of the case gauge.

I'll also add this. Sometimes the case rim of a case fired in the AR will be slightly deformed by the extractor and the rim may not fit in the case gauge but the round will still be suitable for firing. This is a situation where the case can be checked with the headspace gauge.

 

[Ex E6]

Personally I've gotten some of MY Best groups out of Bulk projectiles working up loads . Cheapo 55 gr. W/cannelures no less .

Some time back I bought 4K or 6K General Dynamics .224 projectiles and those I believe were Lake City contract over runs or some such thing .

We never really know ,as distributors can make up near any tale . They do shoot Nicely though and were like $0.08 per ,so real hard to fault that purchase .

 

[Snuby642]

General Dynamics was a good company to work for.

Then in the aeronautics sector L M took over and is ran by libtards and snowflakes.

I never knew we made bullets or would have asked for a discount.

 

[Ex E6]

General Dynamics was a good company to work for.

Then in the aeronautics sector L M took over and is ran by libtards and snowflakes.

I never knew we made bullets or would have asked for a discount.

ATK aka General Dynamics .

Alliant Techsystems (ATK) and General Dynamics have formed a joint venture company, called American Powder Co., to jointly develop and produce munitions propellant for the U.S. Department of Defense. The company will operate the Radford Army Ammunition Plant in Radford, Va., the U.S. Army's only...

When General Dynamics plant was in San Diego ,CA. , I must have purchased 30K lb. of 60" Volan fabric and another 12-14K lb. Carbon 12K tow .
A friend who was a scrap dealer purchased several Tons of High carbon content steel from them as well as all manner of Tooling nuts bolts ANSI no less .

I'm still using R8 cutters , mills , Nuts and Bolts washers , along with HSS aircraft drill bits and I paid a $1.00 per pound for all of them . You Never see bargains like that now days .

 

[Snuby642]

General Dynamics was a engineering driven company and valued thier employees.

LM is ran by uninformed bean counters that will slice each others throat for a dime. I am supprised an F35 will fly longer than a week after being purchased.

 

[Ex E6]

General Dynamics was a engineering driven company and valued thier employees.

LM is ran by uninformed bean counters that will slice each others throat for a dime. I am supprised an F35 will fly longer than a week after being purchased.

Having worked for LM , Boeing and finally retiring from Scaled Composites . I'm glad I chose the latter to finish out MY career