Yet another 223 load question...

[michaelkirkland]

Rifle is surgeon action 223 Wylde.
25" Bartlien bull barrel 1/7 twist
24.0gn Imr8208 powder
Lapua virgin brass
CCI 400 primers
Hornady 88 eld

At 24.00gn of powder I get a velocity of 2834f/s. But I'm seeing over pressure signs, in fact 1 blown primer. See attached pic. It may have been a damp round that blew the primer, but all the rest look like cratering as well.

Am I pushing this too much? It's a fantastic group .3" , SD=2.

My next lower node looks to be at 23.60gn haven't shot it yet to see pressure signs. I really wanna maximize this for PRS.

 

[spamassassin]

Primers are all cratered and from what I can see, they're trying to blank the primer on every single one. Your load is definitely too hot. Do you have the option of extending your COAL a bit? That'll help pressures to come down a bit. If you can't go longer COAL then drop a half grain or so and you should probably be fine unless it's stupid hot out.

 

[RegionRat]

Blown primer.
Flattened corner with flow radius.
Flow and re-flattened indent.

The focus is too soft to see the heads clearly, but I imagine we would also see ejector marking.

Are all signs to stop and re-examine your situation.

I don't have the latest Hornady data for their 88 ELD in the this Kindle version in this iPad, but how does this 8208 recipe data look on your load recipe? It sounds like a hot load, but just off the top of my head without reference.

Getting into the territory of above 80 grain bullets in 223 is specialist territory similar to F-T/R shooters where they blow their brass in two cycles. A sacrifice they make to compete at 1k yards against the 308 users.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I wouldn't think that you'd be too hot with that load but you sure do look to have too much pressure. Are you jambing the bullet or something or have a carbon ring or something? There's others on here that can help you figure this out.

I'm my experience with that long a barrel and that much pressure you'd be seeing a faster bullet too. Seems odd to me but I'm no expert. Definitely need to figure it out.

 

[michaelkirkland]

Primers are all cratered and from what I can see, they're trying to blank the primer on every single one. Your load is definitely too hot. Do you have the option of extending your COAL a bit? That'll help pressures to come down a bit. If you can't go longer COAL then drop a half grain or so and you should probably be fine unless it's stupid hot out.

Thanks a bunch for your thoughts. I'm jammed into the lands. Currently dropping .4 GN and will test tomorrow. What do you mean by "blank the primer" flatten?

 

[spamassassin]

If you just come off the lands by .010 your pressure signs might just go away. Jamming is a great way to increase peak chamber pressures.

 

[whatsupdoc]

Nice, I pluged your numbers into GRT and it was over 80K psi. Standard 223 chamber.

 

[Doom]

Well, you're over four grains above the 90 gr SMK Hodgdon load so I would you are pushing it. Blown, cratered primers. Pushed it too far!

 

[RegionRat]

I opened the iPad Kindle with the previous Hornady Manual version 10 and it only goes up to 75 gr with the 8208 at 22.8 grains and 2700 fps.
Your heavier bullet, going to more powder and higher velocity, could only come from even higher pressure that cause them to stop at 22.8 gr/2700 with the lighter bullet.

Let's ask again, where did the recipe come from for 88 ELD with 8208?

 

[michaelkirkland]

Blown primer.
Flattened corner with flow radius.
Flow and re-flattened indent.

The focus is too soft to see the heads clearly, but I imagine we would also see ejector marking.

Are all signs to stop and re-examine your situation.

I don't have the latest Hornady data for their 88 ELD in the this Kindle version in this iPad, but how does this 8208 recipe data look on your load recipe? It sounds like a hot load, but just off the top of my head without reference.

Getting into the territory of above 80 grain bullets in 223 is specialist territory similar to F-T/R shooters where they blow their brass in two cycles. A sacrifice they make to compete at 1k yards against the 308 users.

I actually don't have a load recipe. I know, your probably cringing right now. I took the 80 & 90 grains and extrapolated where I thought I should be, and have been slowly increasing powder.. it's fantastic for PRS no recoil and the wind is manageable.

 

[RegionRat]

Well, you're over four grains above the 90 gr SMK Hodgdon load so I would you are pushing it. Blown, cratered primers. Pushed it too far!

This follows and makes sense based on the KE value of their other data.

 

[RegionRat]

I actually don't have a load recipe. I know, your probably cringing right now. I took the 80 & 90 grains and extrapolated where I thought I should be, and have been slowly increasing powder.. it's fantastic for PRS no recoil and the wind is manageable.

Going slower and being honest with yourself is important.
If you are not using a strain gage or test barrel, try not to go so far off the map.

ETA: try a better powder.

 

[RegionRat]

What do you mean by "blank the primer" flatten?

The "blank" refers to what happens to the material over the firing pin hole.

It is a more severe form of cratering in instances where the diameter of the pin hole are not the cause but instead it is due to very high pressure. In this case, your bolt face is not the cause.

When the pressure is too high, it appears as if a die punch is trying the shear material though a hole, a fabrication step we call blanking when done on purpose so the term was applied to that flow on the indent area.

 

[redbullitt]

Those are a bit warm for me : ) like a lot a bit lol.

Ive had good luck backing off in that situation THEN adjusting seating depth to get things to sync up again. You might get lucky and it shoots for you.

 

[michaelkirkland]

Going slower and being honest with yourself is important.
If you are not using a strain gage or test barrel, try not to go so far off the map.

ETA: try a better powder.

Awesome thank you all for the advice and knowledge. Firstly I want to be safe. I like where all my body parts are currently located. I kinda thought this was a little fast. I was using a very safe load of 20.42gn but the velocity was only 2560ft/s and was killing me in the wind. Pushing up another 300ft/s has given a huge advantage

The "blank" refers to what happens to the material over the firing pin hole.

It is a more severe form of cratering in instances where the diameter of the pin hole are not the cause but instead it is due to very high pressure. In this case, your bolt face is not the cause.

When the pressure is too high, it appears as if a die punch is trying the shear material though a hole, a fabrication step we call blanking when done on purpose so the term was applied to that flow on the indent area.

Thanks for the clarification. There's so much I don't know.

 

[michaelkirkland]

Going slower and being honest with yourself is important.
If you are not using a strain gage or test barrel, try not to go so far off the map.

ETA: try a better powder.

Awesome thank you all for the advice and knowledge. Firstly I want to be safe. I like where all my body parts are currently located. I kinda thought this was a little fast. I was using a very safe load of 20.42gn but the velocity was only 2560ft/s and was killing me in the wind. Pushing up another 300ft/s has given a huge advantage

Nice, I pluged your numbers into GRT and it was over 80K psi. Standard 223 chamber.

GRT?

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Awesome thank you all for the advice and knowledge. Firstly I want to be safe. I like where all my body parts are currently located. I kinda thought this was a little fast. I was using a very safe load of 20.42gn but the velocity was only 2560ft/s and was killing me in the wind. Pushing up another 300ft/s has given a huge advantage

Thanks for the clarification. There's so much I don't know.

Have you tried TAC. I didn't initially see that you were shooting an 88gr bullet. I've always gotten really good speed with TAC without pressure. It's tough to get that big of a bullet running that fast though without getting up there in pressure.

What is the reason for jambing the lands?

 

[whatsupdoc]

Awesome thank you all for the advice and knowledge. Firstly I want to be safe. I like where all my body parts are currently located. I kinda thought this was a little fast. I was using a very safe load of 20.42gn but the velocity was only 2560ft/s and was killing me in the wind. Pushing up another 300ft/s has given a huge advantage

GRT?

Gordons Reloading Tool

 

[Haney]

This is for a 90 grain bullet,. In a .223 Remington barrel .

 

[918v]

Generally speaking, when the firing pin indent pushes out under pressure, the primer is telling you you’re retarded.

 

[Doom]

If you are determined to push velocity I would suggest not be using 8208XBR. Looking at the Sierra data for the 90SMK you can gain velocity by going to CFE 223 and 2000MR. Both are quite a bit slower than 8208 and do give better velocity. But 2800 fps is absolutely ridiculous for a 223 with that weight of bullt over 1500 ft-lbs). I would think 2600 would probably be the max.

I would check those cases for ejector marks. I would also go with a CCI #41, CCI450 or Remington 7-1/2 for your primers.

I know 2000MR is unobtainium right know but the primers may actually be available.

 

[whatsupdoc]

A 88gr bullet is in my opinion way to heavy for a 223 case, there is just not enough boiler room.

 

[Codiekfx400]

I would try a 7.5 or cci 450 primer. Back the powder charge down about 3 grains and work up. My 88 grain load works good with Varget. If all else fails have your smith ream your chamber to a 223 Ackley Improved. That will get you the velocity you are looking for.

 

[6.5SH]

Rifle is surgeon action 223 Wylde.
25" Bartlien bull barrel 1/7 twist
24.0gn Imr8208 powder
Lapua virgin brass
CCI 400 primers
Hornady 88 eld

At 24.00gn of powder I get a velocity of 2834f/s. But I'm seeing over pressure signs, in fact 1 blown primer. See attached pic. It may have been a damp round that blew the primer, but all the rest look like cratering as well.

Am I pushing this too much? It's a fantastic group .3" , SD=2.

My next lower node looks to be at 23.60gn haven't shot it yet to see pressure signs. I really wanna maximize this for PRS.

According to:

P-Max internal ballistics

You are over 80,600 PSI, it predicted 2803 fps for the rest of your info so is likely an accurate estimate.
Not a good powder choice for that weight bullet.

 

[Dolomite]

I had the same issue with a Tikka T3x loaded .020 off the lands, 77 smk 8208xbr had to back it down to 2600 fps. 2700 fps I was cratering primers using CCI400. I think the load was 23 grains but I can’t remember it’s been a while.

 

[6.5SH]

I load 23.5gr of 8208 under a 75grBTHP at 2.255" in a Wylde chamber. It is at top end. It doesn't look too bad pressure wise in a bolt gun although the primers are flat. The primers are definitely flat in a gas gun. I'm getting 2930 in a 26" bolt gun and 2800 in a 20" gas gun. I think you're loading too hot for a 88gr bullet.

All the powder is burnt at 6.1" with his combo, it is just way too fast of a powder for that bullet. 8208 is an odd powder, it spikes really really fast once you get to a bad place with it.

With 6.5 Grendel it can be a great powder with 120's or less, with a 123 it gets to a bad place sooner than you'd think.

 

[spamassassin]

With a 26" barrel I've been able to get 2950fps with 75gr hornady BTHP without blanking primers but it's a single feed proposition for anything that takes AR mags or similar super limited length mags. Bigger bullets vs. BC vs. FPS is a balancing act. The biggest bullet is not always the best though it often is.