Rifle Scopes Yo, Premier fanbois!

A

azimutha

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 11, 2009
1,044
1
59
Montana
#1
Got an LT 3-15 today and mounted it up. No shooting yet, but my impressions so far are: The weight is noticeably lighter than the 3-15 Heritage. The rifle feels more balanced than before. The glass is, of course, the same, which is to say it is fantastic. I had ideal viewing conditions because it was cool and we've had rain and wind to clear the air. But @ 15X I was able to easily read <span style="text-decoration: line-through">6"</span> (bad typo!!!) <span style="font-weight: bold">16"</span> high lettering 3 miles away, even at the edges. The best way I can describe Premier's glass is everything is just crystal clear.

The turrets are fairly easy to turn and clicks are crisp. Compared to the MTC clicks I don't notice their absence much. The turn indicator and windage indicators make sense. I didn't need to mess with the reticle focus and found getting behind it was pretty easy whether prone or sitting. This model doesn't have illum but I can't really use it for hunting and the Gen II reticle is plenty visible. Tool-less zero is also not a factor for me so that is not missed either.

premier_lt_obj.jpg

premier_lt_ocu.jpg


 
#6
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

I'm happy with my 5-25 PH's so, I looked at getting one of these for my light weight 260. What i'm not crazy about: 12 mils of total adjustment, max mag of 15x, 6 mils per rev.

I'm still looking at the March tactical but, i'm afraid the eye relief will be too critical at max mag and they only have a 5 year warranty.

Glad your happy with the LT and the glass is as crisp and clear as their standard tactical models.
 
#11
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">0.0032 MILs......need a lot of contrast......




Good luck </div></div>

Closer to .032 isnt it... (.0316 or so) dont have a calc handy.
 
#12
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: azimutha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But @ 15X I was able to easily read 6" high lettering 3 miles away</div></div>

That would make it better than my IOR. I can only read 6" lettering 1 mile away...
 
#13
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

Ouch! That was a major freaking typo. It should have read 16 inches...not six. Definitely my bad...corrected original post. BTW, I know they're that size because I asked the store. Don't think I could estimate .08 mils very easily.
 
#16
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: azimutha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ouch! That was a major freaking typo. It should have read 16 inches...not six. Definitely my bad...corrected original post. BTW, I know they're that size because I asked the store. Don't think I could estimate .08 mils very easily. </div></div>

In the world of things at 3 miles, that's not a big difference.

I would still appreciate a pic. That is retarded resolution at such distance. To be honest, Im still a skeptic but enjoy being "WOWed".
 
#18
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

As I stated, atmospheric conditions were as good as they get. 16" @ 5280 yards is in that situation not much different than 1" letters @ 300 yards (.91" to be precise) or the .275" letters on a Redfield target @ 100 yards. If your scope can't resolve those...well.
 
#19
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: azimutha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As I stated, atmospheric conditions were as good as they get. 16" @ 5280 yards is in that situation not much different than 1" letters @ 300 yards (.91" to be precise) or the .275" letters on a Redfield target @ 100 yards. If your scope can't resolve those...well. </div></div>

A 16 inch target at 5280 is extremely different than a 1 inch target at 300... extremely, and Im not referring to the shooting of said target.

Im genuinly asking for a picture, for multiple reasons. One being, I have looked through optics at great distances but have never prime conditions to see what you are describing.

Your still taking about a target (letters), about .0841... mils through a 15x optic. Thats a large statement.
 
#22
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

KNIGHT11B4, first off I certainly agree that the distance makes it extremely different. I'm always amused by people asking "Which spotter to see .223 holes @ 600 yards?" We know that atmospherics can get the better of even the best alpha optics. As I mentioned, conditions were ideal. Also, the sign is almost due north of me and the sun was low in the sky, highlighting it perfectly.

I would never claim that any optic will magically overcome adverse conditions. I'm just reporting what I saw at the time and noted what the air was like. I've also looked at the same sign through an SS 5-20 (@ 20X) and could make out the same details. I no longer have that scope to make a direct 15X comparison but have found that high-end glass does make a difference. I'll still take my NF 2.5-10X32 over many scopes with better glass but given the chance to have a scope with similar durability/repeatability and better glass, I'll take it.

I do not know how to take through-the-scope pix, but if someone can advise me on camera settings I'll try again. As for the distance, ArcGIS shows it as 2.87 mi. I ranged the sign width as .8 mil. At that distance, the sign would be 12 x 12 ft. which is what I was told by the manager. The lower-case letters (and here I should have been more specific) without ascenders or descenders (what a typographer would call the x-height) are 16", i.e. letters like a, e, o and r. I can already picture KYS338 fingering the B and S keys again on his keyboard, but will point out that none of the lowercase letters have a width that exceeds the x-height either. So you can look at it as - under those conditions - the optic was able to resolve letters that did not exceed 16" in both width and height. The wording, BTW, of the characters that are that small is "We're here to serve" so only 3 of 15 exceed 16".

Since I have a meeting out that way this morning, I'll stop by and take a picture of the letters on the sign with a tape measure. Hopefully someone can advise me on how to set a camera correctly for through-scope pix. I have a Canon SX10IS with a 20X optical zoom so I don't know if you go with a macro setting or what.
 
#23
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

Excuses are like buttholes, we all have them and they stink.

I think it not possible for you to spot 16" tall letters at 3 miles. And to prove that I can go to my 4th floor office and look back at my farm. If I cant read the lettering on out main entrance gate, you are exaggerating the scopes capabilities. I will take a NF F1, a Premier Heritage, and my 5-25 S&B.
 
#24
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

That will only prove that under your current conditions with your eyesight and scope settings what you were able to see. I'm not making excuses, only providing detail. I saw what I saw and have no reason to lie. For the record, I sold off a PH 3-15 because it was too heavy and I was disenchanted with the company after the situation with Liberty Optics. I'm kind of surprised to be a Premier owner again, but I consider what I reported to have been done (typo aside) in an objective manner. And for those things that are subjective, like describing the turret feel, I think most people would understand that is opinion, while the other was not.

If while I'm out there I see that the letters or sign dimensions are different then I will say I was wrong and will correct my observations. Ultimately, anyone reading these things can decide for themselves whether the scope meets their expectations. For me, I would be happy with any scope in that mag range that is durable, repeatable and that allows me to shoot a .308 out to 1000 yards well.
 
#26
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

That wouldn't happen to be a nice new FDE S&B scope you're talking about?? lol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Excuses are like buttholes, we all have them and they stink.

I think it not possible for you to spot 16" tall letters at 3 miles. And to prove that I can go to my 4th floor office and look back at my farm. If I cant read the lettering on out main entrance gate, you are exaggerating the scopes capabilities. I will take a NF F1, a Premier Heritage, and my 5-25 S&B. </div></div>
 
#27
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These guys aren't gonna believe you...be happy with your scope and quit before you're really behind.

You can't win against the internet
smile.gif
</div></div>
Don't you mean Internuts? Seriously, I don't blame anybody for being skeptical. These pix to follow aren't going to remove all the doubt either, but hey, I have Hawaiian birth certificates for sale cheap in my trunk.

I was able to hop up on the sign base and hook my tape measure across the sign. It is exactly 12 feet across. I tried getting the tape up onto the smaller letters but the wind kept pushing it around. I wouldn't have been able to take a decent shot from that perspective anyway. This photo was distortion-corrected in Photoshop so I could lay a 12x12 grid on it, but that was the only modification. Ultimately, the only way to verify it will be to fly KYS338 out here, place him on a ladder with the tape and take photos from a decent distance away, as well as some through the scope. (I'll try to remember to leave the rifle unloaded). But for now I am willing to bet the scope itself that the letters highlighted in blue are under 16" in height.

sign_12x12_grid.jpg


I was able to sorta figure out the through-scope pix. And guess what? They don't provide 100% confirmation of what I claimed. Immediately before taking them, I was able to still see the letters. Given the through-scope pix I've seen posted on the 'Hide, there are some that do the scope justice and some that don't. I wasn't able to get the reticle completely in focus, when it certainly is with the naked eye. So I don't think I got any of it completely focused using a $300 camera.

Like BCP said, some people will never be convinced. I've done my best to back up what I said. I had no reason to lie and can only say try one out yourself. Or something comparable. As far as I'm concerned, any high-end FFP scope in the right mag range is well-worth owning.

deck_view.jpg


deck_view_det.jpg
 
#28
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

KYS388 is really not worth this much fuss. The glass in Premier is top notch and at least the equal to my Hensoldt if not its superior.

In regards to conditions, I've not had much of a chance to go shooting since moving across the country but I can immediately make our more detail, at further distances here than I could in the much dustier atmosphere of CA with my 3-12X56.

You've got a killer scope, may you enjoy it in good health.

BTW - the elevation of the hill in the backdrop is so steep it makes it look like the 'folding' scene in Inception!
 
#31
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

Distance should be easy to prove with google maps if it really interests you that much. I have a LT, fantastic scope in a well thought out package.
 
#32
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rath</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Distance should be easy to prove with google maps if it really interests you that much. I have a LT, fantastic scope in a well thought out package.

</div></div>

Could also use those dot things in the crosshairs...
 
#33
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

looking at the pic....I'm gonna guestimate the Mil reading at about 1 Mil...so...:

Target size in inches (16 ft. * 12= 192 inches)* 27.78/ Mils

192*27.78/1.0

5333.76/1.0

<span style="font-weight: bold">5333 yards</span>....

Sounds close enough to 3 miles to me....
 
#34
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mgd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">looking at the pic....I'm gonna guestimate the Mil reading at about 1 Mil...so...:

Target size in inches (16 ft. * 12= 192 inches)* 27.78/ Mils

192*27.78/1.0

5333.76/1.0

<span style="font-weight: bold">5333 yards</span>....

The board is 12'.. your constant is 4000.32. So your 1 mil is off. Look again, seems to be about .75 roughly

Sounds close enough to 3 miles to me....

</div></div>

The board is 12'.. your constant is 4000.32. So your 1 mil is off. Look again, seems to be about .75 roughly
 
#37
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't see how that is 3 miles. </div></div> If you'd waded through all the posts so far, you'd see I measured it @ 2.87 miles, using ArcGIS. However, I switched over to 6" aerial imagery and made sure I exactly specified the map projection. The corrected distance is 2.83 mi. The difference in elevation is not enough to be significant. Google Earth also shows the distance as 2.83 mi. It's easy to pick out both points using high res imagery:

sign_aerial.jpg
 
#38
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rath</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Distance should be easy to prove with google maps if it really interests you that much. I have a LT, fantastic scope in a well thought out package.

</div></div>

Could also use those dot things in the crosshairs... </div></div>

Knowledge is a wonderful thing.
 
#41
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr Scholl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chops to the OP for following through after being howled down. Good effort.</div></div>

I second this statement.
Where is KYS338 now?? Wait, I bet he's in the classifieds playing "Price Patrol" making sure everyone has their prices properly posted.
 
#43
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Katahdin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I think the OP has proven his point, some guys just get their panties in a bunch. Please post more pics of you scope and rifle instead of trying to prove you are a man of you word.</div></div>

Let's get real here. There is a HUGE difference between 6" and 16". So questioning a claim that is questionable at best is not out of the ordinary or unwarranted.

Now to the OP's credit he did come back and correct himself, which is all he had to do. Done.

If I made a post and said "I just shot a 10 round sub 5" group at 1K yards", many would call me on it saying I just broke a WR and prove it. Those questions would not be unexpected or out of the ordinary. Now if I come back and say "oh, it wasn't sub 5" it was sub 15", that 10" makes a HUGE difference.

If you don't think inches count, just ask your ex-girlfriend.
 
#44
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

If you don't think inches count, just ask your ex-girlfriend.

</div></div>

Or her new boyfriend.
 
#45
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Excuses are like buttholes, we all have them and they stink.

I think it not possible for you to spot 16" tall letters at 3 miles. And to prove that I can go to my 4th floor office and look back at my farm. If I cant read the lettering on out main entrance gate, you are exaggerating the scopes capabilities. I will take a NF F1, a Premier Heritage, and my 5-25 S&B. </div></div>

Some just stink more than others
smile.gif
 
#46
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

The OP admitted his error and corrected it without any fuss. Then bandwagoners like KY wouldn't let up and he even so proudly stated he'd do his own experiment with his own kit to prove the OP wrong/liar and was rude and arrogant about it too (despite the obvious error of such an assertion given different locations and conditions - again, politely pointed out by the OP).

Then when the OP, rather humbly, went clearly out of his way to prove his integrity on this, what happens? Not a word from Mr. JumpToConclusions.

I think THAT is what people are commenting on Mike, not the issue of the original claim of 6" @ 3 mile should not have been called out.

Regarding ex's, mine won't stop calling. Apparently inches don't count when there's a 1/3 of a yard to deal with... lol!
 
#47
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

Very well done Azimutha, when I scrolled down to your pictures I got to the first one thought it was a pretty far stetch for your claim, but then I scrolled down to the next one and I think you proved your point very well. I will dig in and do some more research on this scope, it looks real promising.
Also, my hat is off to you for not getting all excited when someone called BS on you.
SScott
 
#48
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The OP admitted his error and corrected it without any fuss. Then bandwagoners like KY wouldn't let up and he even so proudly stated he'd do his own experiment with his own kit to prove the OP wrong/liar and was rude and arrogant about it too (despite the obvious error of such an assertion given different locations and conditions - again, politely pointed out by the OP).

Then when the OP, rather humbly, went clearly out of his way to prove his integrity on this, what happens? Not a word from Mr. JumpToConclusions.

I think THAT is what people are commenting on Mike, not the issue of the original claim of 6" @ 3 mile should not have been called out.

</div></div>

+1
 
#49
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The OP admitted his error and corrected it without any fuss. Then bandwagoners like KY wouldn't let up and he even so proudly stated he'd do his own experiment with his own kit to prove the OP wrong/liar and was rude and arrogant about it too (despite the obvious error of such an assertion given different locations and conditions - again, politely pointed out by the OP).

Then when the OP, rather humbly, went clearly out of his way to prove his integrity on this, what happens? Not a word from Mr. JumpToConclusions.

I think THAT is what people are commenting on Mike, not the issue of the original claim of 6" @ 3 mile should not have been called out.

Regarding ex's, mine won't stop calling. Apparently inches don't count when there's a 1/3 of a yard to deal with... lol! </div></div>

+1 Much respect. I already like PR, cuz I got one, but this thread taught me how to conduct myself better here.
 
#50
Re: Yo, Premier fanbois!

Very cool OP, you've inspired me to do some "long" range spotting for kicks! I love Premier. I have never attempted to read signs at this distance, but it is pretty amazing to see the level of quality in todays optics.

Great job!
 
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