Rifle Scopes You guy's are just killing me.

[Joey Dean]

Since I became a forum member I have done a lot of reading on a lot of different topics. One of those were items covered here in the Optics section. I have bought a few scopes (Vortex PST FFP, SWFA SS, Mk 4) and really like the total control I have and the ability to twist and shoot out to any range I am feeling that I need to shoot at.

Now though, I have bought a new Tikka T3 Lite .308 for a carry around gun for hunting. I don't need all the bells and whistles, yet I can't seem to talk myself out of them. How do you get the boy back on the farm after he has been to the big city?

 

[Outdoorsman9]

Move to the suburbs and look at some good used scopes. I picked up a used PST the other day for a good price. Nice knowing the warranty follows the scope.

 

[ccoker]

Yep
It is hard to go back to regular hunting scopes after you get used to the "tactical" scopes

I struggle with this same thing on my hunting rifles.

If someone made a relatively lightweight scope with good glass for a reasonable price they could sell them.

I was at NRA this weekend and Sightron had a new FFP Pre production sample there.

I told the guy there is a whole in the market for a scope with really good glass, say in a 3-12x50, 30mm tube, FFP, mil/mil, capped or locking windage and an elevation with zero stop.

Something like a Premeir LT that was lighter and cheaper.

He said he had several guys that had already come by looking for the same thing.

They were open to feedback and suggestions.

My main hunting rifle is a Nosler 280AI that weighs 6.75lbs
I don't want a big heavy scope but want the features

The closest thing on the market right now to what I want is a S&B precision hunter.

 

[hlee]

Take one of those tactical 56mm behemoths with raised tactical turrets and put it on a scale. Then measure length, width, and height. Compare that to a 3-9x40 with capped windage and elevation adjustment... The latter is positively svelte by comparison. That's all it takes for me to drop the bells AND the whistles. It's a Tikka T3 LITE. Don't put a brick on top of it!

 

[Joey Dean]

Yep, that is the issue. I put a PST on it that I had laying around to see how it shot. With just the scope and rings I added half of rifle weight back into the rig. That is not what I bought that one for. I already have one arm longer than the other from humping a 12# rifle all day. However, I am so used to seeing turret caps sticking out on all sides and a reticle busier than a whore house in a navy town that I am afaid I am missing something if they are not there.

 

[steve123]

Hey Joey,

Two of my favorite scopes are at extremes. The $250 BSA tactical 4-14 and a S$B 5-25PMII.

Of course if I could afford it I'd have more S$B's but reality is what it is.

The truth is the BSA's work great for their purpose, being mounted air rifles and 22's. If I had the S&B mounted on the same rifles I couldn't do anything different than what I'm doing now with those cheapy BSA FFP scopes. On the other hand, I'm not going to take the chance of using the BSA's on my tactical rifles for fear of one breaking during a match.

All I really need is reliability and decent glass. I used to own 3 Bushnell HDMR's, what a fantastic scope for the money! I almost wish I'd kept them but I must admit the S$B is more refined in every way. I like having illume and 10 parallax so I sold the HDMR's.

ccoker,

On my fantasy list is a 1" tubed FFP hunting scope with a bias towards being light and compact with low profile, single turn, capped or locking, mil knobs and a modern mil reticle. 2-10 would be great.

 

[ccoker]

Are you stuck on FFP?
Do you want to dial or use the reticle?

If SFP is ok:

A great lightweight scope with great glass and a issuable mil bases reticle is the Swaovski Z3 with the BHR reticle in a 3-9x42 or 4-12x50

You can get an elevation dial for them as well.

Another option would be a Zeiss HD5 with the lockable target turrets.

I have a 3-15 coming and will be abl to compare against a Swaovski z3 3-9 my brother has.

Another option would be a LEUPOLD with a CDS dial like a VXR or VX6

 

[Huskerhunter]

Great post and a dilemma we all face! I have a Kimber 84M in 260 that weighs 5 lbs. I have an older Nikon Monarch 2-7x32 duplex reticle 1" tube scope on it. It's a combo that makes sense and looks right together. You have to go back and ask yourself what the intended use is for the rifle. I'm never going to shoot across a beanfield with this setup. It's for deer hunting where the shots are typically 150 yards or less, and great carry gun for Coyotes (95gr pills) that are called into reasonable range. These are situations where you don't usually have time to work up a "firing solution" anyway (at least at my level of training). In the end I agree with hlee...DON'T put a brick on it!

 

[hlee]

When was the last time you dialed windage or elevation on a hunt? Have you ever missed a deer (I mean flat out missed or failed to recovere animal) because of parallax? Does your rifle scope do double duty as a spotter? Do you carry a range finder? If all your scope needs to be is an aiming device then a fixed 6x scope with a 30mm objective will give you plenty of magnification to hit a deer in the vitals with a 5mm exit pupil (max that average human can take advantage of) in a very light weight package.

What is you longest shot while hunting? How often does that occur? What is the typical shooting distance and what is the difference between average long and short shots where you shoot? For example, the longest shot I have ever taken on a deer is ~250 yards. The shortest shot was less than 20. However, where I hunt the average shot is between 60 and 100 yards. Exposed windage and elevation turrets are not necessary in this situation as the yardages (including the extreme max) are within the maximum point blank range of my rifle- meaning I can aim center and expect to hit ~within 3" high or low over that entire range. Any wind I am likely to be hunting in will be calm enough not to need to dial a windage holdoff (over this range) as well. And, as hunting scopes designed for modern centerfire rifles have their parallax set at 150 yards (typically), there is no need for parallax adjustment on a scope that fits my needs.

High magnification, large objectives, Finger adjustable turrets, and fancy ranging reticles are all cool but generally unnecessary for hunting.

 

[ccoker]

What the above said.
For me, deer hunting starts at 100 with average shots out to 300

So a flat rifle with a 250 yard zero means dead deer easily out to 350.

But I want the ability to accurately place precise kill shots out to 500.

Pig hunting is done on foot with a 6.8 AR and a T1.

Conditions should dictate the gear "needed"

 

[Joey Dean]

Don't get me wrong. Everything you say is spot on. It is just the nag in the back of my head talking.

Just ordered a Zeiss 3-9x40 Conquest with the Z Plex Reticle. Found it on sale so I snagged it.

 

[mtmander]

Why do you want to go back ?? If it is $$$ then that will guide you but if it is not $$$$ keep going.

 

[Joey Dean]

It is not $$$, it is weight.

My rifle weighs 6.25 lbs. with no scope and a sling. Many of the Tac style scopes start at about 28 oz. in weight. Take that down to a 1" tube w/low capped turrets and no parallax and you are closer to 20 oz. That brings the rifle weight to about 7.5 lbs.

Sometimes a light rifle makes a lot of sense.

 

[ccoker]

Yep
I have a 3-9x40 Trijicon Accupoint on my son's Sako 243
Lightweight, great glass, Mildots for holdovers

Anything bigger / heavier would offset the balance of the gun.

 

[OFIS]

Leupold Mk4 3.5-10x40 TMR M5 FFP

 

[santee116]

The Swaro Z5 5-25x52 with ballistic turret and the 4W reticle (has 2moa hash marks for windage) and only weighs 17.5 oz. If this had an illuminated reticle option it would be the ultimate hunting scope, IMO.

Of course, you can get the Z6 3-18x50 with the same reticle illuminated and it only weighs 21.7 oz, not too bad. But it cost $3300!

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Take one of those tactical 56mm behemoths with raised tactical turrets and put it on a scale. Then measure length, width, and height. Compare that to a 3-9x40 with capped windage and elevation adjustment... The latter is positively svelte by comparison. That's all it takes for me to drop the bells AND the whistles. It's a Tikka T3 LITE. Don't put a brick on top of it!

I agree, it's getting back to basic controls, small size and light weight that are important for a good hunting scope. Nevertheless, take the lessons you've learned about having good glass and a useful reticle along when you look for a scope. It's too bad there isn't an ongoing, separate discussion about hunting scopes with these characteristics. I'm thinking about a scope for my Dakota 243Win hunting rifle and I don't want large size, heavy weight, or turrets that stick out. A 3-9x40ish scope is probably about right for the job, and I'm looking at old-but-good Redfields, old and new Leupolds, and newish Vortex scopes. A duplex reticle is OKay for me, but there might be something better. The 3-9x SWFA is FFP is a reasonable price, size and weight and might be the way to go too. As they say, there's one for everybody but you have to look.

 

[hk401]

I have a premier heritage 5-25x56mm mount it on my Tactical rifle, and during hunting season, I was trying to use it on my sako a7 and it was heavy and too big cuz i am a short guy BTW I dont even shoot the elk or deer pass 200 yards. So I bought a leupold VX3 for my sako a7 rifle.

 

[ccoker]

Didn't realize they made this scope:

Leupold 3.5-10x40 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope

I had checked on the 4.5-14 FPP TMR but they didn't offer the M5 knobs

 

[ccoker]

Sorry, I was thinking of the locking M5s

 

[458win]

Nightforce 2.5-10x32 mil dot, mil knobs. Zero stop. bombproof.

 

[tylerw02]

I've never seen the 3-9x Conquest with sidefocus. When you get it can you post a picture? I'm interested in seeing one.

 

[scudzuki]

I settled on a 20 oz. Sightron SIII 3.5-10 mil/mil for my "light" build.
Great turrets, great glass, great CS (so it's rumored).
All my other scopes are FFP, but SFP is not a problem for this scope; it will seldom get used below 10x except for spotting, at least that's what I've convinced myself.
$650 at opticsplanet

Joe

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

I've never seen the 3-9x Conquest with sidefocus. When you get it can you post a picture? I'm interested in seeing one.

Photobucket doesn't like the image type used in the ePay posting (there may be inherent copyright protection), so I can't copy and post it here. Go to ePay and look at item 310659239109 while it's still up. I previously had a 4.5-14x Conquest with side focus so I know side focus exists on a Conquest; however, I think the picture used for the ePay posting is not a 3-9x40 but some other Conquest model with side focus. It's very likely "quick focus" mentioned in the ad refers to a rapid focus eyepiece, my bad. Still, I would have bought it and I did!

 

[ccoker]

What have you compared the Sightron to?

 

[scudzuki]

What have you compared the Sightron to?

I've currently got several Bushnell ETs (6-24x50 FFP, DMR, XRS) but used an S&B for a few months and a friend's Viper PST 6-24x50.

Here's a post from the "truth about Leupold" thread

"Regarding the value issue: The Mark 4 that I owned sells for $1100 new, for a SFP 3.5-10x40 scope with side parallax, turrets, a fairly basic but glass etched reticle, and nothing else.

In comparison:

1) Sightron SIII 3.5-10x44 mil/mil scope. Sells for $650. Very comparable to the Mark 4, but made in Japan, has better glass to my eyes, slightly better turrets, slightly larger objective and therefore exit pupil, and doesn't lag behind in anything I can see. This is the most direct comparison I see to the model I had, and it costs less than 2/3 as much for a better scope.

2) Burris MTAC 3.5-10x42 mil/mil scope. Sells for $400. It is in a lower tier and may not have the same durability as the Mark 4, and the turrets are not as nice. It still has a focus (but objective) and glass clarity is surprisingly good for its price. It also has a second generation mildot with the half-mil ticks, which I like (and it's also a glass-etched reticle). For training use this would be comparable, though admittedly I would not compare it for duty use.

3) SWFA SS 3-9x42 mil/mil scope. $600. Slightly lower magnification and no focus, but FFP reticle with a nice modernized reticle, very rugged, glass is maybe a tiny bit behind the Mark 4, maybe not.

4) Bushnell Elite Tactical 3-12x44 FFP mil/mil. $900. Broader magnification range, equal or better glass clarity, FFP reticle with G2 tree reticle option. It does more than the SFP Mark 4 for $200 less, with no drawbacks I can see."

-SomeOtherGuy

So SOG above rates the Sightron glass better than the Mark 4, the Bushnell ET312 and the SWFA.

Joe

 

[ccoker]

Thanks
For a hunting scope at 10x I can live with FFP

I am rather spoiled by the glass of the top end euro scopes.

 

[JSF]

Nightforce 2.5-10x32 mil dot, mil knobs. Zero stop. bombproof.

This is my favorite hunting scope. At 19oz you can't beat it.

 

[tylerw02]

Photobucket doesn't like the image type used in the ePay posting (there may be inherent copyright protection), so I can't copy and post it here. Go to ePay and look at item 310659239109 while it's still up. I previously had a 4.5-14x Conquest with side focus so I know side focus exists on a Conquest; however, I think the picture used for the ePay posting is not a 3-9x40 but some other Conquest model with side focus. It's very likely "quick focus" mentioned in the ad refers to a rapid focus eyepiece, my bad. Still, I would have bought it and I did!

Yeah, I've had several of the SF Conquests, but never one in 3-9x---or even seen one. The 3-9x is a great little scope without the side-focus though.

 

[Crosshair]

For a light weight mil/mil scope with low profile turrets, I'm not aware of anything lighter weight than the Leupold Mark AR's. Here is a little list I was making for the mil/mil 2.5-10x scope range and advertised prices and weights included:

$600 Swfa ss 3-9 19oz
$600 Leupold 3-9 vxr patrol 15.3 oz
$300 Weaver GS 3-10x42 16.6 oz
$600 Viper 2.5-10x44 pst 18.4
$700 Viper 2.5-10x32 pst 18.7 oz
$700 Sightron sIII 3.5-10x44 20.5 oz
$1200 Ior 2.5-10x42 18 oz
$700 Bushnell 3-12x44 24.4 oz
$450 Burris mtac 3.5-10x42 17 oz
$350 Leupold mark ar 3-9x40 12.6 oz
$400 Leupold mark ar 4-12x40 14.8 oz

 

[ccoker]

There is also the new Weaver 2-10x36

But it is a little heavier

 

[ccoker]

Forgot about the LEUPOLD Patrol 3-9x40

 

[QuickNDirty]

All my hunting gets done with a Leupold FX-II 2.5x20mm on a BLR lightweight-81 in .270 Winchester.

 

[bluto77]

This is a great thread. I've been trying to figure out which scope I want to use on an Elk hunt in Wyoming. I'm thinking the longest shot I'd be taking would be 400 yards, but more than likely 300 or less. I'm looking for clarity and would prefer more than 2-10. I've been using/trying several different scopes at the range, for bench shooting. I'm used to the Vortex Razor, PST 6-24, SWFA SS 5-20, USO 5-25. I'm afraid it may be too hard to go back.

Oh yeah...they're all FFP mil/mil. And I like to dial in elevation.

 

[Name Enough]

Don't get me wrong. Everything you say is spot on. It is just the nag in the back of my head talking.

Just ordered a Zeiss 3-9x40 Conquest with the Z Plex Reticle. Found it on sale so I snagged it.

I have owned different scopes from different makers and finally sold all of them and scoped all my hunting rifles with Zeiss Conquest 3x9 with the Z600 reticle. The parallax is preset at 300 yards. No need to think much with this scope. The reticle does the work with a ninimum of scope dope taped to my stock. I hunt with 257 Weatherby - 6.8 SPC - 223 Wylde and 300 WSM.
I do not shoot past 300 yards as I do not think I can make a clean kill past that range based on my skill level. If you check out the Zeiss Conquest with the Z-600 reticle I think you will be very impressed with the glass. They are light weight and have excellent dawn and dusk light gathering abilities and are rugged.

I just recently got into long range yards, the distances I shoot most often no longer offers the challenge it used to. So I am looking forward to the disappointment, fustration and finally the success that comes from education, tinkering with the gear and practice, practice, practice.

 

[Saito]

Don't get me wrong. Everything you say is spot on. It is just the nag in the back of my head talking.

Just ordered a Zeiss 3-9x40 Conquest with the Z Plex Reticle. Found it on sale so I snagged it.

That's exactly how I roll on my hunting rifle. Zeiss is great glass.

 

[ccoker]

I just put a Meopta Meopro 4-12x50 with a #4 on my 280AI

Great glass that will hang with the top dogs

 

[lte82]

If you are worried about that extra half pound worth of optics being too much, I have a 3-9x40 walmart special bushnell I'll trade for your heavy scope.

=)

 

[808joel]

Just buy a Nightforce and be done with it. IMO is the best bang for your buck.