Your perfect action - and why

[Emilio]

Re: Your perfect action - and why

tag

 

[jbell]

Re: Your perfect action - and why

I have dry fired the crap out of mine for 4 years with no snap cap and not broke yet.

 

[buffybuster]

Re: Your perfect action - and why

60 deg bolt throw, integral rail/closed top Win/FN M70 control feed action, relieved for AI mags.

 

[KevinU]

Re: Your perfect action - and why

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jbell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have dry fired the crap out of mine for 4 years with no snap cap and not broke yet. </div></div>

Me too, dry fired my two Bighorns countless times, no problem.

 

[hewlett260]

Re: Your perfect action - and why

It's funny going through here and seeing everyone post the same thing: three lug short throw bolt, integral rails and recoil lugs, use AW magazines, 3-position safety, blah blah blah. Not trying to piss anyone off here but what action has all those features and is known to be the best?
The AW action. And yet nobody really mentioned a few key features; massively overbuilt, enclosed receiver for strength and function, permanently bonded so bedding not an issue, four action bolts instead of two, rock solid, and since this does carry some weight with it, military proven world wide. Also to go with that last part is the fact that AI is not really what anyone could call the 'Lowest Bidder' and their AWM in 338 Lapua holds the record for the longest sniper kill in history.
To the gentlemen who mentioned the Badger, to put this in comparison; If the AI was the Mauser 98, the Badger is the '03 Springfield, a copy and although very good, not as good as the original.
That's just my $0.02 and in case you haven't guessed buy now my pick for the perfect action is still the AW. I just wish they would offer them in short magnums and work out how it could be a controlled round feed action.

 

[mavrick]

Re: Your perfect action - and why

My .02 a three lugged bolt 591 would do it for me. And toss in a better extractor

Dustin

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Your perfect action - and why

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hewlett260</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's funny going through here and seeing everyone post the same thing: three lug short throw bolt, integral rails and recoil lugs, use AW magazines, 3-position safety, blah blah blah. Not trying to piss anyone off here but what action has all those features and is known to be the best?
The AW action. And yet nobody really mentioned a few key features; massively overbuilt, enclosed receiver for strength and function, permanently bonded so bedding not an issue, four action bolts instead of two, rock solid, and since this does carry some weight with it, military proven world wide. Also to go with that last part is the fact that AI is not really what anyone could call the 'Lowest Bidder' and their AWM in 338 Lapua holds the record for the longest sniper kill in history.
To the gentlemen who mentioned the Badger, to put this in comparison; If the AI was the Mauser 98, the Badger is the '03 Springfield, a copy and although very good, not as good as the original.
That's just my $0.02 and in case you haven't guessed buy now my pick for the perfect action is still the AW. I just wish they would offer them in short magnums and work out how it could be a controlled round feed action. </div></div>

Lookign at the AW I wouldn't say it's a truly enclosed receiver... the port is pretty open for an action with an integral rail. It seems from the pics there's more space and access than my BigHorn. I'm assuming it's for some of the reasons listed by earlier posters.

Why is massively overbuilt important? Given that the tolerances for PSI are well known in advance would anything more than that actually add any appreciable value to performance? How many times has the action's lack of strength actually played a part in failure or poor accuracy? I'm talking from a design perspective, not faulty or poor metallurgy.

 

[JByrd]

Re: Your perfect action - and why

591 is perfection.

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Your perfect action - and why

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: procovert45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">591 is perfection. </div></div>

unlikely. You're suggesting that there's no more room for improvement, no area that hasn't been maximized for performance, accuracy and reliability...

again, explain WHY not just 'it's good'...

 

[jbell]

Re: Your perfect action - and why

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hewlett260</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's funny going through here and seeing everyone post the same thing: three lug short throw bolt, integral rails and recoil lugs, use AW magazines, 3-position safety, blah blah blah. Not trying to piss anyone off here but what action has all those features and is known to be the best?
The AW action. And yet nobody really mentioned a few key features; massively overbuilt, enclosed receiver for strength and function, permanently bonded so bedding not an issue, four action bolts instead of two, rock solid, and since this does carry some weight with it, military proven world wide. Also to go with that last part is the fact that AI is not really what anyone could call the 'Lowest Bidder' and their AWM in 338 Lapua holds the record for the longest sniper kill in history.
To the gentlemen who mentioned the Badger, to put this in comparison; If the AI was the Mauser 98, the Badger is the '03 Springfield, a copy and although very good, not as good as the original.
That's just my $0.02 and in case you haven't guessed buy now my pick for the perfect action is still the AW. I just wish they would offer them in short magnums and work out how it could be a controlled round feed action. </div></div>

I would of said that except for one major problem, it is permanently bonded to that chassis. The problem being is I cant get comfortable behind it and shoot it consistantly. I have never shot a Badger so I cant comment on it. Although this has got me thinking about doing one for my next build with a A5.

 

[Edds]

Re: Your perfect action - and why

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: procovert45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">591 is perfection. </div></div>
It would be if it had a flat bottom, a model 70 extractor and ejector, a swept back bolt handle, and was made of stainless steel.

 

[Conqueror]

Re: Your perfect action - and why

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">used to think like this as a trg was my first high end rifle. after i got some other things, i found they were not as great as i thought....heres why...

weak ejection

not a huge fan of their extractor

weak and failure prone bolt stop

bolt stop on the wrong side

screwed on bolt hande that has a weak attachment point

overly complex and very expensive trigger unit

trigger stick if adjusted to light

trigger group held on by a single bolt

bolt lift tension will cause safety to not disengage

parkerized finish is not ideal for a tactical rifle

special tool needed to remove firing pin

firing pin very prone to break when dry firing

bolt not fluted

zero moa rail or crappy sako direct mount are the options</div></div>

1. Definitely has weak ejection, no argument there.
2. Extractor is so good people pay to have it installed in other guns.
3. Examples of bolt stop failure? Never heard of or seen one.
4. How can a bolt stop be on the "wrong" side? It's a button, they can put it underneath for all I care, as long as its accessible and doesn't actuate by accident.
5. Handle is indeed screwed on, I guess this may be a weak point. Then again this is true of very many actions (or they're just tack welded or brazed).
6. Everything Sako is expensive. Luckily the trigger is included and is world class, so no need to spend money upgrading it.
7. I fail to see how a malfunction caused by an end user exceeding the stated parameter could be seen as a fault. I mean, the AI action will malfunction if you screw the barrel on backwards too.
8. One drop of Loctite and your trigger group will never fall out.
9. Huh?
10. Combat guns have been parkerized for like 1,000 years.
11. You don't have to use the special tool. I can remove it by hand.
12. Never heard of a firing pin breaking.
13. True, bolt not fluted. Also true of many actions named in this thread. AI bolts only partially fluted.
14. Those may be the only FACTORY options, but there are a host of outstanding canted rails available (ie, Near Mfg).

 

[Whit]

Re: Your perfect action - and why

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">used to think like this as a trg was my first high end rifle. after i got some other things, i found they were not as great as i thought....heres why...

weak ejection

not a huge fan of their extractor

weak and failure prone bolt stop

bolt stop on the wrong side

screwed on bolt hande that has a weak attachment point

overly complex and very expensive trigger unit

trigger stick if adjusted to light

trigger group held on by a single bolt

bolt lift tension will cause safety to not disengage

parkerized finish is not ideal for a tactical rifle

special tool needed to remove firing pin

firing pin very prone to break when dry firing

bolt not fluted

zero moa rail or crappy sako direct mount are the options</div></div>

1. Definitely has weak ejection, no argument there.
2. Extractor is so good people pay to have it installed in other guns.
3. Examples of bolt stop failure? Never heard of or seen one.
4. How can a bolt stop be on the "wrong" side? It's a button, they can put it underneath for all I care, as long as its accessible and doesn't actuate by accident.
5. Handle is indeed screwed on, I guess this may be a weak point. Then again this is true of very many actions (or they're just tack welded or brazed).
6. Everything Sako is expensive. Luckily the trigger is included and is world class, so no need to spend money upgrading it.
7. I fail to see how a malfunction caused by an end user exceeding the stated parameter could be seen as a fault. I mean, the AI action will malfunction if you screw the barrel on backwards too.
8. One drop of Loctite and your trigger group will never fall out.
9. Huh?
10. Combat guns have been parkerized for like 1,000 years.
11. You don't have to use the special tool. I can remove it by hand.
12. Never heard of a firing pin breaking.
13. True, bolt not fluted. Also true of many actions named in this thread. AI bolts only partially fluted.
14. Those may be the only FACTORY options, but there are a host of outstanding canted rails available (ie, Near Mfg). </div></div>


I agree with Conqueror, I love my Sako. I had TRG-42 300 WinMag first then I traded it for a TRG-22 which I am having rebarreled into a .260 Rem for a comp rifle. I would have never would have got a TRG-22 if I didnt like the action, trigger and stock. I would have had one custom built.

13. You dont have to have a bolt fluted to have a work flawlessly. AI only partially fluted to keep it from freezing up in the extreme cold.
14. I use Badger 20 MOA base They even have a 35 MOA bases for the TRG's

 

[hyena74]

Re: Your perfect action - and why

1. Definitely has weak ejection, no argument there.
++agreed++
2. Extractor is so good people pay to have it installed in other guns.
++it works, but i think there are better designs. my opinion++
3. Examples of bolt stop failure? Never heard of or seen one.
++i read about it on here. the bolt stop release is not supported by the receiver...just the pin is holding it. pin breaks and the stop is gone. i think krg was working on a solution at one time.++
4. How can a bolt stop be on the "wrong" side? It's a button, they can put it underneath for all I care, as long as its accessible and doesn't actuate by accident.
++this is personal preference, but it felt awkward to me and makes more sense to be on the left side away from the clutter.++
5. Handle is indeed screwed on, I guess this may be a weak point. Then again this is true of very many actions (or they're just tack welded or brazed).
++the bolts i like are made out of one chunk. read on another forum about a trg freezing up and the guy kicked the handle to open it and it tore it off where it screws in++
6. Everything Sako is expensive. Luckily the trigger is included and is world class, so no need to spend money upgrading it.
++it does feel good. no argument there++
7. I fail to see how a malfunction caused by an end user exceeding the stated parameter could be seen as a fault. I mean, the AI action will malfunction if you screw the barrel on backwards too.
++im not sure there are stated parameters. there may be. they just dont work well once they get down to around two lbs++
8. One drop of Loctite and your trigger group will never fall out.
++i dont like locktite on or around trigger groups++
9. Huh?
++cycle the bolt and engage the safety. now lift the bolt a little to create tension. it will only open a small amount since the safety is locking it. not try to disengage the safety and it wont move until you push the bolt back down to take the tension off.++
10. Combat guns have been parkerized for like 1,000 years.
++they used to be muzzle loading too, but much better things have came along++
11. You don't have to use the special tool. I can remove it by hand.
++a always had to use the tool on mine...but if it was take it apart and put it back together or die, im sure i could find a way.++
12. Never heard of a firing pin breaking.
++i have a few times researching them out. a new one was 180 bucks from brownells last a checked and took about 4 months to get++
3. True, bolt not fluted. Also true of many actions named in this thread. AI bolts only partially fluted.
++cant argue that++
14. Those may be the only FACTORY options, but there are a host of outstanding canted rails available (ie, Near Mfg).
++i know. i was talking about what you can buy from sako...not hopped up with aftermarket parts.++

im just stating my opinions why i think the trg isnt the "perfect" action.

 

[hyena74]

Re: Your perfect action - and why

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whit</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">used to think like this as a trg was my first high end rifle. after i got some other things, i found they were not as great as i thought....heres why...

weak ejection

not a huge fan of their extractor

weak and failure prone bolt stop

bolt stop on the wrong side

screwed on bolt hande that has a weak attachment point

overly complex and very expensive trigger unit

trigger stick if adjusted to light

trigger group held on by a single bolt

bolt lift tension will cause safety to not disengage

parkerized finish is not ideal for a tactical rifle

special tool needed to remove firing pin

firing pin very prone to break when dry firing

bolt not fluted

zero moa rail or crappy sako direct mount are the options</div></div>

1. Definitely has weak ejection, no argument there.
2. Extractor is so good people pay to have it installed in other guns.
3. Examples of bolt stop failure? Never heard of or seen one.
4. How can a bolt stop be on the "wrong" side? It's a button, they can put it underneath for all I care, as long as its accessible and doesn't actuate by accident.
5. Handle is indeed screwed on, I guess this may be a weak point. Then again this is true of very many actions (or they're just tack welded or brazed).
6. Everything Sako is expensive. Luckily the trigger is included and is world class, so no need to spend money upgrading it.
7. I fail to see how a malfunction caused by an end user exceeding the stated parameter could be seen as a fault. I mean, the AI action will malfunction if you screw the barrel on backwards too.
8. One drop of Loctite and your trigger group will never fall out.
9. Huh?
10. Combat guns have been parkerized for like 1,000 years.
11. You don't have to use the special tool. I can remove it by hand.
12. Never heard of a firing pin breaking.
13. True, bolt not fluted. Also true of many actions named in this thread. AI bolts only partially fluted.
14. Those may be the only FACTORY options, but there are a host of outstanding canted rails available (ie, Near Mfg). </div></div>


I agree with Conqueror, I love my Sako. I had TRG-42 300 WinMag first then I traded it for a TRG-22 which I am having rebarreled into a .260 Rem for a comp rifle. I would have never would have got a TRG-22 if I didnt like the action, trigger and stock. I would have had one custom built.

13. You dont have to have a bolt fluted to have a work flawlessly. AI only partially fluted to keep it from freezing up in the extreme cold.
14. I use Badger 20 MOA base They even have a 35 MOA bases for the TRG's </div></div>

a lot of people love them. they work reasonably well and are fielded.

they feel good and the trigger feels nice. id rather have something else more durable imho if my life depended on it.

and while the stock feels good, i think its the weakest link on the system (how the rear portion attaches).

 

[Whit]

Re: Your perfect action - and why

There are numerous number of stocks and chasis for Sako rifles. You can pick whatever you want.

 

[hyena74]

Re: Your perfect action - and why

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whit</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are numerous number of stocks and chasis for Sako rifles. You can pick whatever you want. </div></div>

what...a sako folder and a krg is all i know...oh, and i think i seen one mounted in some "tube gun" setup once.

i forgot to mention earlier, i think a thick recoil lug built into, or attached to the receiver is a much better design than a slotted receiver that a little pressed in piece on the chassis fits into.

 

[Whit]

Re: Your perfect action - and why

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hyena74</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whit</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are numerous number of stocks and chasis for Sako rifles. You can pick whatever you want. </div></div>

what...a sako folder and a krg is all i know...oh, and i think i seen one mounted in some "tube gun" setup once.

i forgot to mention earlier, i think a thick recoil lug built into, or attached to the receiver is a much better design than a slotted receiver that a little pressed in piece on the chassis fits into. </div></div>

XLR industries, SABER/FORSST (Ashbury) is a couple more chassis (off the top of my head) and I am pretty sure Manners and McMillan does inlets for them too.

 

[Conqueror]

Re: Your perfect action - and why

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hyena74</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whit</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are numerous number of stocks and chasis for Sako rifles. You can pick whatever you want. </div></div>

what...a sako folder and a krg is all i know...oh, and i think i seen one mounted in some "tube gun" setup once.

i forgot to mention earlier, i think a thick recoil lug built into, or attached to the receiver is a much better design than a slotted receiver that a little pressed in piece on the chassis fits into. </div></div>
A lot of this is theoretical. Anyone ever heard of a TRG recoil lug breaking or failing?