Yup... A cleaning question...

jwp6114

jwp6114

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 8, 2008
1,034
5
Newnan, GA
#1
How many rounds do you shoot between cleanings and do you just clean out carbon or copper and carbon every cleaning?

I am curious and am going to start doing "detail'd cleanings" (removing copper) less often... And see how the groups hold up...

This is my plan after I finish tinkering with my loads... Still learning magic tricks for reloading.
 
#2
Re: Yup... A cleaning question...

You need some cooper in the barrel for it to function correctly. I just run a bore snake throught once or twice and clean the bolt face and receiver by wiping it down. No major cleaning until groups start to open up. If I have carbon buildup on the crown due to a suppressor I wipe that down as well.

Too much cleaning will destroy your barrel.

I wait til about 450 -500 rounds for a full cleaning
 
#3
Re: Yup... A cleaning question...

Depends on what I am shooting and how long it will be sitting for. My .308 can go literally hundreds of rounds before groups open up and needs to be cleaned. My 280 AI can only go about 40 rounds before cleaning is necessary. Barrel prep has a lot to do with cleaning necessity.
 
#5
Re: Yup... A cleaning question...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Too much cleaning will destroy your barrel.</div></div>

i do not agree, please explain or give examples...


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneteam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Barrel prep has a lot to do with cleaning necessity. </div></div>

Fully agree...
 
#6
Re: Yup... A cleaning question...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Too much cleaning will destroy your barrel.</div></div>

Too much [improper] cleaning will destroy your barrel.
 
#7
Re: Yup... A cleaning question...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Too much cleaning will destroy your barrel.</div></div>

Too much [improper] cleaning will destroy your barrel. </div></div>

Not bust'n your chops trying to learn...
Please define improper cleaning...
Just want to make sure I'm not hurting anything, I have been cleaning every 40-50 rounds religiously.
 
#8
Re: Yup... A cleaning question...

Inevitably, when you clean your rifle, you will do something to make your rod bow within the bore, have the rod scrape the muzzle, or have it enter the throat wrong. Using a bore guide reduces the chance of these things happening, but they happen. Every time they happen, there is an opportunity to mar the bore, the crown, or the throat.

Just running patches is probably OK... you will shoot the bore out eventually, you just don't want to clean the bore out. Now with brushes... they are by their nature abrasive. Taking a lot brush strokes, reversing direction inside the bore, etc... this can damage the bore pretty quickly.

I rarely use a brush and when I do, it is usually 3 strokes all towards the muzzle from the breech. I use a nylon brush, not brass.

I clean a lot more than other folks here, but still, that is every 150 rounds or so and I have shot as many as 400 - 500 without cleaning.
 
#9
Re: Yup... A cleaning question...

I agree and want to start using nylon brushes...

I am using a bore guide and dewy coated rods...

It was my understanding that to damage a steel barrel with a softer metal like copper brush was not possible...

I suppose your saying I'm wrong?
 
#10
Re: Yup... A cleaning question...

ok ... when you clean you are using some sort of solvent ... when you finish ... and then you put another patch through you will see some black ... that is not dirt that is your barrel ... thoes solvents work your barrel. McMillan has been quoted that more barrels have been destroyed by too much cleaning than too much shooting.

Also the pay section of this site also goes over proper cleaning and states what I have just said. With that said my friend who also has a .308 cleaned his barrel (properly) every time ... we both had the same rifle .. and well after 2000 rounds he had to change his barrel out I am still going strong after 3000 rounds.

This is just my opinion and what I have practiced for some time. Again only clean when the group starts to open up. and when you start to shoot again make sure that you fire 3 fouling rounds though to lay down some copper to smoth the barrel out.

By the way I do not use brushes on any of my rifles ... I will use patch out foam cleaner and let it set for a few hours and then patch it out ... use some gun oil and then 2 patchs and done .. in total not more than 8 patches.

-K
 
#12
Re: Yup... A cleaning question...

I had some questions about this subject myself. So, I did a survey that helped me to see what others are doing and why.

See survey here... http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...870#Post2810870

I used to be fanatical about my cleaning my gun every time after it was fired...not so much anymore. I'm just more careful now about when and how I clean and I'm fanatical about keeping a detailed shooting log to track cleaning/maintenance and round count...
cool.gif
 
#13
Re: Yup... A cleaning question...

I use a pull through system, pro shot, and it works great. I also use a borescope to keep an eye on things. I find that my rifle shoots really well clean, so I found that a boresnake is good after 50 rounds then a thorough cleaning after 200 to keep things consistent. My cleaning includes a copper removal step using Shooters choice in the barrel applied with a bore mop and left to sit for 10 mins. No copper or carbon after that.

I then study the cold bore/clean bore poi and I'm amazed how consistent it is with practically no deviation.
 
#14
Re: Yup... A cleaning question...

U r not going to damage ur steel barrel with a copper brush. Benchrest guys clean their barrels between every relay, and they aren't having problems with damaged barrels.
 
#16
Re: Yup... A cleaning question...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jig Stick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">U r not going to damage ur steel barrel with a copper brush. Benchrest guys clean their barrels between every relay, and they aren't having problems with damaged barrels. </div></div>

I watch benchresters stroke bronze brushes back/forth, passing the brush back over the crown all the time.

I don't do that, myself, but I will:

Place muzzle up against the wall to use as a "stop", and reverse a loose(ish) fitting brush in the bore.

I'm embarrassed to admit some of the blunders I've pulled on my Savage barrel over the years. Still shoots lights out at 5000+ rounds.
 
#17
Re: Yup... A cleaning question...

+ 1

I love me my Savage barrel as well..

I don't get why people think these barrels are like made of silk or something that you caress, jees
smile.gif




<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jig Stick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">U r not going to damage ur steel barrel with a copper brush. Benchrest guys clean their barrels between every relay, and they aren't having problems with damaged barrels. </div></div>

I watch benchresters stroke bronze brushes back/forth, passing the brush back over the crown all the time.

I don't do that, myself, but I will:

Place muzzle up against the wall to use as a "stop", and reverse a loose(ish) fitting brush in the bore.

I'm embarrassed to admit some of the blunders I've pulled on my Savage barrel over the years. Still shoots lights out at 5000+ rounds. </div></div>
 
#18
Re: Yup... A cleaning question...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jig Stick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">U r not going to damage ur steel barrel with a copper brush. Benchrest guys clean their barrels between every relay, and they aren't having problems with damaged barrels. </div></div>

Yeah, they are. Bill Calfee, rimfire smith said he sees a lot of rimfires that have been "cleaned out." He blames the lack of a bore guide.

Most benchresters get a lot less barrel life out of their guns than long range shooters. Cleaning regimen has been cited as one of the factors, but it might also have to do with what we consider acceptable accuracy versus what they consider acceptable accuracy.
 
#19
Re: Yup... A cleaning question...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ok ... when you clean you are using some sort of solvent ... when you finish ... and then you put another patch through you will see some black ... that is not dirt that is your barrel ... </div></div>

That is just wrong. Drop some stainless steel media in Butch's Bore Shine for 24 hours... I guarantee it won't come out black. The black is mostly carbon. Green is dissolved copper... not necessarily from the bore. It could also be copper from a copper brush or a jag.
 
#20
Re: Yup... A cleaning question...

As an engineer, I find it puzzling that it is possible to wear out a hard material by running a softer one against it, but it happens.

Do carbide tooling inserts wear out when cutting soft aluminum? Yes.

I built a high performance engine several years ago, and had trouble getting the EFI calibration right for it to start well. As a result, I ended up doing a LOT of cranking, all the while injecting fuel. All told, I probably spent 10 minutes cranking on it. I got the fueling figured out, but the engine smoked like a tar kettle. After 300-400 miles and the smoke situation not improving, I tore the engine down to see what was wrong...

First off, I had bad fuel dilution in the oil, killing lubricity.

Secondly, EVERYTHING "hard" in the engine was worn out, while everything "soft" had no measurable wear...

Bearings, bronze wristpin bushings, valveguides and pistons: Good to go.

Crank journals, wristpins (tool steel), cam journals, valvestems and cylinder bores: .004-.006" wear!!

WTF?

Anyway, I won't say a bronze brush won't wear out a 4130 steel or 416 stainless barrel...but I will say its going to take a bunch of rubbing to do it.
 
#22
Re: Yup... A cleaning question...

well, i will say that i am keeping up with how i clean the curent barrel on my .308, and i will report back when i ware it out... wich may be 5 years...

love to hear some input from other guys shooting and cleaning and inspecting their barrels with a bore scope. i have looked down my barrel several times and now i know what i am doing is working and i can see what is or is not in my barrel as well as monitor throat erosion...
 
#23
Re: Yup... A cleaning question...

FWIW - my rifles shoot best (most accurate) with clean barrels. I completely clean them after every trip to the range. I consider barrels to be consumable items. I shoot them, clean them and I will replace them when they no longer meet my accuracy needs.
 
#24
Re: Yup... A cleaning question...

JWP,

Remove corrosive residue and leave some copper. If you shoot moly, the black layer is O.K. One or two passes with Hoppes BR #9 and drying patches about 12 hours apart.

HTH,
DocB
 
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