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Rifle Scopes Zeiss LRP S3 New First Focal Plane Riflescopes for Long-Range Precision Shooting
- Thread starter Lowlight
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Just a heads-up that Zeiss will be having a price increase starting July 31 so now is the time to get a Zeiss if your thinking about it.
I've seen some talk of the image going out of focus between mag ranges. Is this normal for all these scopes, or was it just a few that had problems? Can anyone confirm that their scopes which are supposedly good can cycle through mag ranges without losing focus?
As far as I understand, it is typical for riflescopes and camera zoom lenses to require refocusing once the magnification is changed.
Very special camera zooms that (largely) retain focus after magnification changes are called parfocal.
Parfocal lens - Wikipedia
I've never heard it talked about in any other scope being used for precision rifle competition. Only this one.As far as I understand, it is typical for riflescopes and camera zoom lenses to require refocusing once the magnification is changed.
Very special camera zooms that (largely) retain focus after magnification changes are called parfocal.
Parfocal lens - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
I thought I noticed it when I first got the scope before it was mounted but once scope mounted and diopter set then it’s not there for my two scopes.
Hey @koshkin could you weigh in on the parafocal issue?
I noticed I have (accidentally) commented twice in this very thread on the issue regarding some people saying the S3 needs refocusing after a mag change.
I’m saying, maybe incorrectly, that most riflescopes (and camera zoom lenses) require refocusing after a mag change for critical focus to be achieved. It’s my understanding that only special parafocal lenses do not require refocusing in the same situation (or I suppose put more precisely, the blurriness after an mag change isn’t very noticeable in a parafocal).
Here are my two posts on the issue:
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...ange-precision-shooting.7138592/post-10567972
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...ange-precision-shooting.7138592/post-10951620
I noticed I have (accidentally) commented twice in this very thread on the issue regarding some people saying the S3 needs refocusing after a mag change.
I’m saying, maybe incorrectly, that most riflescopes (and camera zoom lenses) require refocusing after a mag change for critical focus to be achieved. It’s my understanding that only special parafocal lenses do not require refocusing in the same situation (or I suppose put more precisely, the blurriness after an mag change isn’t very noticeable in a parafocal).
Here are my two posts on the issue:
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...ange-precision-shooting.7138592/post-10567972
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...ange-precision-shooting.7138592/post-10951620
Same, was annoyed by it a bit at first but then once setup correctly it disappeared. Shooting a match with 4-25 this weekend.
Can someone take an up close video where you can hear the turrets and see how they click/snap when adjusted? If you can compare it to a razor that would be even better.
razor snaps/clicks more than my S5. very different feel. idk which I prefer
I would suggest finding a local (or nearby) store that has one, and will let you play with it. That's what I did that made my final decision after already drooling over them for a while. After handling one, and checking out the glass first-hand, I was immediately sold on my 6-36x56.
Also, I have noticed this phenomenon you are talking about when using MANY scopes off of a tripod where I did not have a consistent cheek-weld. Once on the rifle, and setup proper, no more issue. My eyes are good, so I always have every diopter turned all the way in, but my astigmatism makes illumination or red dot sights a big blurry red star, so most of the time when you see me aim a pistol, I'm using my left eye with my right closed, but still shooting right-handed. It weirds people out the first time they see it...They think I don't know what I'm doing.
If I'm using a rifle with a red dot with no magnification, I shoot with both eyes open typically so I get the best sight picture between the good eye and bad eye combining.Any update on the Zeiss S3 4-25 illumination problems or other quality control problems. Rob01 how did yours perform in matches & how does it compart to your Steiner TX6? kissofdeath- did you get your issues resolved okay? Thank you.
Neither of mine had any illumination issue. No issues actually. Performed great in the matches I have used it in. Compared to the Steiner, the glass is a little better in the Zeiss but they are both solid scopes. Just comes down to the features and elevation needed. I am actually moving the Zeiss 4-25 to my Vudoo when it comes back from getting the new barrel and that will be my main rimfire match rifle. I should have about 40 mils of elevation which is great.
I sent mine for repair and the scope arrived at their facility last Thursday. The green illumination started to flicker bad, it seemed to work with certain batteries but with others it was fine. All lithium, I believe the scope came with two plus I tried one from my stash.
I shot a PRS match with it and it starting to get very annoying that I cannot get the reticle in focus with the diopter and now that some people mention the Parallax issue I started to notice it as well. This is the first scope I struggled getting it perfect.
For the upcoming match I went to my Leupold Mk5. Super easy to set Diopter shot up to 950 yards on a hot day with mirage. No issues.
Were these early purchase LRP S3 4-25s or more recent manufactured scopes? What rifles were the scopes on?
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Got mine in 3/23 and it is on a 6.5 Creedmoor match rifle now but moving to my Vudoo soon.
After getting my 6-36, it has no focus or parallax issues. Reticle sharp, tested parallax out to 1450 yards and was super sharp with plenty of adjustment left. Very pleased with it optically.
I'll be able to let you know my thoughts after the weekend. I have had my LRP S3 6-36x56 for a while now, and I just got my new ATACR F1 5-25x56 last week before I went on vacation, so I wasn't able to shoot with it until now. I'll compare them side-by-side at the range this weekend, and report back.
Well... More bullshit got in the way, so I wasn’t able to go to the range…AGAIN! It stormed like hell yesterday, and today I had to go to the doctor to get some meds for some severe bug bites causing a bad rash on my legs (either fleas or mosquitoes), and it acted like it was getting better, then woke up today and it was really flared-up. So, got some antibiotics, some cream, and a shot, so I should be good to go by next weekend. Then it started storming by the time I got home with enough time left to go...
Anyway, no excuse not to go next weekend, so, weather-permitting, I’ll be going next weekend to do some serious range time and testing and comparisons.
Here’s a few pics of the old 5R .300WM after mounting the new NF ATACR F1 5-25x56 on it for Load development. And the Otter Creek Labs Hydrogen-L 7.62 ready to quiet things down.
Well... More bullshit got in the way, so I wasn’t able to go to the range…AGAIN! It stormed like hell yesterday, and today I had to go to the doctor to get some meds for some severe bug bites causing a bad rash on my legs (either fleas or mosquitoes), and it acted like it was getting better, then woke up today and it was really flared-up. So, got some antibiotics, some cream, and a shot, so I should be good to go by next weekend. Then it started storming by the time I got home with enough time left to go...
Anyway, no excuse not to go next weekend, so, weather-permitting, I’ll be going next weekend to do some serious range time and testing and comparisons.
Here’s a few pics of the old 5R .300WM after mounting the new NF ATACR F1 5-25x56 on it for Load development. And the Otter Creek Labs Hydrogen-L 7.62 ready to quiet things down.
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Sweet shooter.
My 5R (.308 from ~2007) was so stupidly accurate that I didn't bother going the custom route back then. I still have a slew of 3/4" targets at 200 yards from back in the day.
I finally did go custom, and rebarreled it to .260 with an APA LB brake on it around 2009. It was no more accurate, and much louder... so much so that I lost interest, parted it out, and sold it to fund a divorce in 2012.
That 5R will always be one of the decisions I regret.
Back OT: How do you like the glass in that ATACR compared to your S3? (if I missed it in a previous post, I apologize...I've been reading my ass off lately with reviews).
I haven't been able to compare them yet. I will next weekend when I go to the range.
I've compared it to an atacr 7-35 and the Zeiss is better optically.
I finally got my 6-36 zeiss out today, it's very similar optically to my gen3. The zco def cut the mirage out better than either. It's was 90° in pretty beating sun 3-6mph wind from 8 o'clock. For the price I paid for vortex and the zeiss, right at 2k, they're very good scopes.
The universe has been kicking my ass lately, but I DO plan on going tomorrow, as long as it doesn't rain. I'm so far backlogged on shit I need to test, that it's getting piled up. So, weather-permitting, I'll be going tomorrow.
@mp0311 Alright... So I got to finally go shoot my new ATACR F1 today... It started raining and got cloudy when I first got to the range today, and then it got sunny, so I got to experience it in multiple weather and lighting scenarios in the same day.
My initial thoughts & opinions... The tunneling effect does make the scope feel quite constricted in its FOV through my eyes. The parallax is not accurate at all (at 100 yards, I was having to use around the 60 yard setting). The glass, while clear, was very neutral and not bright. The FOV feels constricted throughout the mag range. And you really have to get up on the scope...The eye relief is very (abnormally) short. The turrets are amazing...They're probably the nicest feeling turrets I have on a scope currently. Tracking is dead-on. The Zero-stop is awesome, and holds strong. The scope is solid, just extremely lackluster in glass and FOV. I do like the MIL-XT reticle. It's very thin, and you can see the target behind the reticle...But at times, the glass is so dark looking, that it almost washes the reticle out on a black background. If it had better glass, it would be a nice scope, and worthy of the MSRP price. IMO.
I'm going to piss a lot of folks off when I say this, but I compared them directly side-by-side all afternoon (5 hours), and shot them back-to-back on different rifles while doing load development... But my Ziess Conquest V4 6-24x50 ($1,300 scope) had clearer glass, and was MUCH brighter of an image, with only a 30mm tube and 50mm objective...And the parallax is accurate. And my Zeiss LRP S3 6-36x56 glass is even better than the Conquest V4 glass. So, that should tell you where the LRP S3 stands vs. the ATACR glass-wise. No comparison...LRP S3 wins unanimously. Mechanically, they are probably both similar, with the NF being beefier. The ATACR F1 does have better turrets than the LRP S3.
Is the NF ATACR F1 5-25x56 worth the money? Hell no. I'd say it's probably a $2,000-$2,500 scope in all reality. Which is about what I paid for it brand new before taxes. So, I'm going to keep it, because it's a really nice scope...It's just extremely unimpressive in the glass department...And their parallax settings need some serious tweaking. But overall, it's a good scope, but the LRP S3 stomps it glass-wise...And in FOV.
As far as my opinion based on MSRP prices... I'd definitely spend the money on another gen 2 Kahles K624i or put it towards a K525i before I'd drop $3K on another one. The LRP S3 6-36x56 has better and brighter glass and FOV for $600 less than the ATACR F1 5-25x56.
My initial thoughts & opinions... The tunneling effect does make the scope feel quite constricted in its FOV through my eyes. The parallax is not accurate at all (at 100 yards, I was having to use around the 60 yard setting). The glass, while clear, was very neutral and not bright. The FOV feels constricted throughout the mag range. And you really have to get up on the scope...The eye relief is very (abnormally) short. The turrets are amazing...They're probably the nicest feeling turrets I have on a scope currently. Tracking is dead-on. The Zero-stop is awesome, and holds strong. The scope is solid, just extremely lackluster in glass and FOV. I do like the MIL-XT reticle. It's very thin, and you can see the target behind the reticle...But at times, the glass is so dark looking, that it almost washes the reticle out on a black background. If it had better glass, it would be a nice scope, and worthy of the MSRP price. IMO.
I'm going to piss a lot of folks off when I say this, but I compared them directly side-by-side all afternoon (5 hours), and shot them back-to-back on different rifles while doing load development... But my Ziess Conquest V4 6-24x50 ($1,300 scope) had clearer glass, and was MUCH brighter of an image, with only a 30mm tube and 50mm objective...And the parallax is accurate. And my Zeiss LRP S3 6-36x56 glass is even better than the Conquest V4 glass. So, that should tell you where the LRP S3 stands vs. the ATACR glass-wise. No comparison...LRP S3 wins unanimously. Mechanically, they are probably both similar, with the NF being beefier. The ATACR F1 does have better turrets than the LRP S3.
Is the NF ATACR F1 5-25x56 worth the money? Hell no. I'd say it's probably a $2,000-$2,500 scope in all reality. Which is about what I paid for it brand new before taxes. So, I'm going to keep it, because it's a really nice scope...It's just extremely unimpressive in the glass department...And their parallax settings need some serious tweaking. But overall, it's a good scope, but the LRP S3 stomps it glass-wise...And in FOV.
As far as my opinion based on MSRP prices... I'd definitely spend the money on another gen 2 Kahles K624i or put it towards a K525i before I'd drop $3K on another one. The LRP S3 6-36x56 has better and brighter glass and FOV for $600 less than the ATACR F1 5-25x56.
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My 5-25 atacr is 4-5 years old now, and I agree, the glass doesn't have the pop a lot the newer top end japanese models do. The 7-35 and 4-20 have better glass than the 5-25. The s3 line is a great scope, I just hope someone there tunes up the reticle and makes it more passive and less cluttered around center of view.
I agree, the reticle on the S3 is slightly thicker than I prefer, and is a little cluttered because of that. Maybe they’ll offer a thinner version of the reticle in future models.
I like the S3 reticle. It’s easy to see in any conditions and having shot movers with it and done wind holds it’s not cluttered at all for my eyes. I wouldn’t want them to change it but if they did then keep the original too.
My experience with Zeiss support has been sub par to say the least. Sent it in for flickering of illumination on the green option as well as focusing issue about two weeks ago. Wrong S/N , not once but three times, then to be told they found a problem then get a call saying the tech found nothing. A day later, scope is being sent to Germany for further inspection followed it up by a VM that a 2nd tech found nothing wrong with the scope.
Been 3 strikes so far and zero trust on the brand. I'm hoping that they make it right.
Current line up of my nicer glass: ZCO, 3 MK5s, March LPVO, NF ATACR.
Been 3 strikes so far and zero trust on the brand. I'm hoping that they make it right.
Current line up of my nicer glass: ZCO, 3 MK5s, March LPVO, NF ATACR.
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To add more S3 experience......
The S3 is fairly new to me, as I have only had about 50 rounds through it on a 6GT comp rifle. I liked it over the low round count, but really didn't put a ton of stock into it yet.
I'm selling my 6GT (done with comps), so I took my S3 off and put it on my 6DTI AR coyote slayer
. I've been wanting to upgrade my 6DTI optics for a couple of years, and thought what the hell LOL....
I took it out last night to zero and shoot a few groups from 100 to 600 yards. Without really testing in different light conditions and such, I'm realizing the S3 is for real, and so far I would highly recommend it. I love the reticle and the turrets......so nice! I'm going to keep it on the coyote rifle and give it the onion this year. I've been burned hunting in low light with lower end glass, so hopefully this is the answer....I bet that it is.
And by the way, I thought the weight would be a bit much for the AR, but it feels great!
The S3 is fairly new to me, as I have only had about 50 rounds through it on a 6GT comp rifle. I liked it over the low round count, but really didn't put a ton of stock into it yet.
I'm selling my 6GT (done with comps), so I took my S3 off and put it on my 6DTI AR coyote slayer
. I've been wanting to upgrade my 6DTI optics for a couple of years, and thought what the hell LOL....I took it out last night to zero and shoot a few groups from 100 to 600 yards. Without really testing in different light conditions and such, I'm realizing the S3 is for real, and so far I would highly recommend it. I love the reticle and the turrets......so nice! I'm going to keep it on the coyote rifle and give it the onion this year. I've been burned hunting in low light with lower end glass, so hopefully this is the answer....I bet that it is.
And by the way, I thought the weight would be a bit much for the AR, but it feels great!
Ah good to hear someone else still enjoying one of Mike’s AR’s…I still have my 25 DTI but my 22&6mm DTi’s have new homes.To add more S3 experience......
The S3 is fairly new to me, as I have only had about 50 rounds through it on a 6GT comp rifle. I liked it over the low round count, but really didn't put a ton of stock into it yet.
I'm selling my 6GT (done with comps), so I took my S3 off and put it on my 6DTI AR coyote slayer
I took it out last night to zero and shoot a few groups from 100 to 600 yards. Without really testing in different light conditions and such, I'm realizing the S3 is for real, and so far I would highly recommend it. I love the reticle and the turrets......so nice! I'm going to keep it on the coyote rifle and give it the onion this year. I've been burned hunting in low light with lower end glass, so hopefully this is the answer....I bet that it is.
And by the way, I thought the weight would be a bit much for the AR, but it feels great!
I just got my second S3 4-25 1st is on a B14R and this second one will probably end up on a hunting rifle also.
If you do positional shooting the Mk5 is superior IMO. The MK5 forgiving eyebox is nice when you are required to shoot from odd positions. Another plus for the MK5 is the parallax . For example shooting a troop line , can leave it set for 450 yards and can be fine all the way out to 700 plus yards. At my 22LR matches where it's much closer troop lines the Parallax on the S3 falls short, it's too picky. The one and only I shot with the S3 started at around 175y out to 300 yards. Only shot one RF match with the S3 and then moved it to the JP AR for CF due to this reason. IMO is a bit more picky, plus non having reference points for distances is a downside. I marked my S3 knob with different colors to denote the different distances with the Parallax knob. As a reference, I typically run in the 17-18X power level for rimfire and CF.
On my CF monthly matches they are usually 80-100 shooters. I have only seen a couple of shooters using the S3 and they are all new to PRS. It's usually their first rifle build. They mentioned the tight box as a downside.
I am not new to matches and I don’t see any of those issues in running the S3 in multiple Rimfire and centerfire matches. I have set mine at a centerfire match at the 650 yard target and shot out to the 1208 yard target on a stage.
Actually just moved my S3 4-25 to my rebarreled Vudoo because I want the extra elevation and excellent glass. The eye box is pretty easy to get behind for me even in different positions off props.
Actually just moved my S3 4-25 to my rebarreled Vudoo because I want the extra elevation and excellent glass. The eye box is pretty easy to get behind for me even in different positions off props.
Good to hear, I am leaning that way, given the illuminated Mk5s are several hundreds of dollars more than the s3
Hey everyone,
So I picked one of these up about a month ago from a local sporting goods shop. Got home and noticed the whole tree lit up for both red and green past the 2nd brightness settings for each. Based on what I am hearing here, they truly should be just the center reticle illuminated. I went back to the store to see if I could exchange for one of the others they had in stock... Low and behold all 7 both 425s and 636s had the tree illuminated, some worse than others. The store ended up trying to send all of theres for MA and their Zeiss rep said they are designed to be overly bright and illuminate the whole tree??? Anyways, I have the option to return mine to them, they are sending all of their Zeiss's back and ending the relationship with them. I am torn on if I pick one up and try to MA it on my own, I love the glass quality and all of the other features, and don't really plan on using the illumination anyways.
Anyone have any thoughts on this situation? Sounds like a lot of BS coming from Zeiss's side.
So I picked one of these up about a month ago from a local sporting goods shop. Got home and noticed the whole tree lit up for both red and green past the 2nd brightness settings for each. Based on what I am hearing here, they truly should be just the center reticle illuminated. I went back to the store to see if I could exchange for one of the others they had in stock... Low and behold all 7 both 425s and 636s had the tree illuminated, some worse than others. The store ended up trying to send all of theres for MA and their Zeiss rep said they are designed to be overly bright and illuminate the whole tree??? Anyways, I have the option to return mine to them, they are sending all of their Zeiss's back and ending the relationship with them. I am torn on if I pick one up and try to MA it on my own, I love the glass quality and all of the other features, and don't really plan on using the illumination anyways.
Anyone have any thoughts on this situation? Sounds like a lot of BS coming from Zeiss's side.
Did you do it inside and put it on the highway setting? Or do it outside in shade?
I did it inside, but the guy I was dealing with after I went home said he went outside and it is the same issue, I am gonna run up there again and see how it fairs outdoors for myself.
That’s the problem. The Zeiss is a true daylight bright illumination. If you put it on full inside you get that halo effect where it looks like everything is lighting up. Start on lowest power is not in full sunlight.
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