Rifle Scopes Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

[Manzgear]

ok guys I have a Zeiss 4.5x14x50 conquest scope with the Z plex reticle -(1000yd one) and after sighting it in for the reticle hold over I changed my mind and said ok I am going to just use the middle cross hairs and then use the turrets to increase or adjust my elevation and windage. Well I ran into just one big problem. It will hold zero at only 12 power and up to 14 power. If I shoot it at 8 power the rifle shoots around 6-8 inches low. And I thought it was wrong but I checked it and checked it and its true. If anyone knows why they would do this. Please explain? I have been on the phone with the Zeiss people and they dont seem to make any sense. I own three other zeiss scopes all 3x9x40 conquests on hunting rifles and they all function flawlessly - and now this...
it makes me pretty upset that I can't use the lower powers and not be on target with my sighted in POI. I guess its a matter of Money and what you are willing to spend. anyways let me know what you guys think about this

 

[Postal0311]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

Could be that the middle of the reticle is not actually the middle. Then when you change power, the reticle changes sizes due to it being second focal plane and your POI shifts.

 

[Opticsspecialist]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

It sounds like you've run into the trap of ballistic reticles, you have to have them on a specific magnification to work correctly. also with that reticle you should have a 20 moa base for it to work correctly.

depending on your load, that can also change the magnification you have to use.

whats going on is the distance between those lines is changing slightly and that varies your point of impact, or at least thats what i'm thinking is going on

 

[-=boone=-]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

Ah the wonderful trap of the ballistic reticle.

Your ballistic reticle is made around a specific muzzle velocity, ballistic coefficient, and density altitude. Change any of those three items and your ballistic reticle will not work correctly. Not to mention a drastic change in temperature. You can dial to correct for the range in which you are shooting however the rest of the reticle is now useless. Change in the DA will also have a affect on your windage lines. Meaning they also will not be correct.

 

[powell]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Postal0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could be that the middle of the reticle is not actually the middle. Then when you change power, the reticle changes sizes due to it being second focal plane and your POI shifts. </div></div>

+1. Get behind the rifle and look down range. Have someone else adjust the mag power ring from high to low and see if the center crosshair moves. Center shouldn't, but the way it sounds, it is. All the rest of the BDC hash marks will be in diff places though.

I downloaded the Strelok app for my droid and it shows that Rapiz Z 1000 bullet drops using the center zeroed at 100 and BDC from there down as opposed to using the one further up from center like Zeiss recomends.

 

[Manzgear]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

Jay I am using the middle reticle like it is the cross hairs of the scope- I sighted in on 14x at 100using that hold. and I have the larue mount with 20MOA in it. but if I use a lesser power then 12-14- the rifle shoots low. I am only using the middle as a Point of aim. that would be the 500yard point of the reticle if you are counting from the top as 100 down.. does that make sense?
all I want is the same scope or the 6x20 with the mildot cross hairs and I want the point of impact to be the same from lowest power to highest power.. yeah I guess I got duped

 

[Manzgear]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

powell is my scope a second focal plane scope? I need to look that up. when you move power adjuster the cross hairs move from the position that I had them in while looking down the scope. Again, and apparently this is normal according to Zeiss. I just cant believe they would do that for a tactical scope. what If you needed to make a 50 yard shot. you dont need 14x for that..

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

It's a second focal plane reticle and the crosshairs you're using are not exactly in the center of the image plane. So they move around when you change magnification. Read the manual, it may tell you which point on the reticle doesn't move when you alter the magnification - should be the major crosshair intersection.

 

[Manzgear]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

ok that makes sense. I'll look for that in the manual. I did read it once and didnt remember seeing that. I talked to three different techs on the phone this week and I dont think they understand what I am trying to convey. But the answer I received from each of them was the scope was built on the premise of using the reticle and that you can't go below a certain power or the reticle wont work. But again what I wanted to do was use the center as my point of aim and use my turrets to increase my elevation... but if I use less power than 12x - my bullet drops below where it was sighted in at. But I know what you are saying One eyed jack- thank you

 

[calling4life]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

Take all the other bs away from this discussion.

If you are using just the main crosshairs, you zero them at 100, just a power change should not have an enormous effect on POI, certainly not what you're experiencing.

SFP or not, now if you are accidentally confusing the crosshairs as you change power, that is one thing, but I don't believe you are doing that, as you said you've checked and re-checked.

I had a Burris Black diamond that would shift POI by a lot as you switched power, it was an 8-32 power scope, it went back.

8-32 is a lot of adjustment, if I get 1/4" of movement, it is alright, but if my POI is moving so bad it is a hindrance to my shooting, scope goes bye bye.

My bushnell elite 6500 would stay zeroed and centered no matter the power it was on, it was a 4.5-30, I was pleased. My Sightron SIII 8-32 isn't giving me any problems either.

If I'm understanding you correctly, she should be going back to Zeiss for some correction. If I'm misreading, well, I was raised in MN, so you'll have to excuse me.

 

[Manzgear]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

calling4life- you and all the others understand what I am saying. And again after talking to three Zeiss representatives I have come up with the realization that I am just screwed. unless I need to send it back. But I told the people at Zeiss that I sighted it in on the middle cross hair. and I was going to use the turrets to increase my elevation for longer shots. But as I have been told. I can not take my power below 12 or my POI will shift lower. WHy this will happen I dont know. that means to me that variable power on this scope is worthless. Again I am not using the reticle at all. just the exact middle cross hairs. I will try to get a pic to put up for this thread.

 

[Hunt]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

Start here:

http://www.zeiss.com/c1256bcf0020be5f/Contents-Frame/4ce72fbc4859816a85256bcf00613d9e

Fill out the information it is asking for and it will tell you what magnification you need to be on in order to have the reticle match the ballistics of your bullet.

I ran into this same issue last week while p-dog hunting in South Dakota with the Rapid-Z Varmint reticle using a .223. What I found after doing my calculations was that I had to stay on 12x in order to have the reticle match the drop of my 55gr VMAX at 3215 fps.

 

[Manzgear]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

here is a pic of the reticle

again I am using the #5 or the very middle cross hair

 

[livetohunt]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

I have used the R-1000 RETICLE in a Zeiss Victory scope with a SFP and had no problems using the 500 yard line for a 100 yard sight in and it was a 6x24 x72.I dont know if the reticle is not centered in the conquest line of scopes but I would send it in and ask Karen at zeiss in customer service for a loaner scope and see if it does the same thing.Sounds like you have a bad scope but it may be that the reticles are NOT centered in the conquest line.

 

[livetohunt]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

Those reticles are made by Pride Fowler for Zeiss you may want to give them a call and see what they say.Im sure they will be able to answer your questions better than the girls at zeiss.Here is the # (877) 817-6019

 

[springer01]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

Yeah something is not right, because I used the Rapid Z varmint like you are trying to use yours. I had no problems dialing elevation at any power using the center cross hairs out to 600 yards with my .223.

 

[XTR]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

Yea, sounds like the reticle is not centered and it's moving when you shift magnification, and that shouldn't happen.

Yes it's a SFP scope so the BDC function only works at one magnification (w/o looking it up I'd guess max), but you should be able to use it and dial, though if I were going to do that I wouldn't want that cluttered reticle.

 

[Manzgear]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

Looking at the others I would be happy to just switch to the mildot cross hairs- ok you guys make me feel better about this cause I was thinking that I was wrong on this and those zeiss women knew more than me about shooting and anyways thanks all. I will call them about the reticles. thanks again everyone -

 

[Manzgear]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

Springer01 do you use the same power all the time? if I use the same power at 14 I am ok- but If I drop power then my POI drops... is that consistent with what you are seeing on your scope?

 

[Manzgear]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

Spoke with Pride Fowler and the owner John Pride is going to call me back. That company has it together. I understand that make some really nice glass as well. The woman I spoke with on the phone for over 20mins was very knowledgeable and is going to have the owner call me back to see if he can understand my issue. Zeiss bought the reticle rights from this company as stated above from livetohunt. So again we shall see what i find out.

 

[bondoscustomz1]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

I have the 6.5x20x50 Rapid z 1000 and use it on a 308 with 168 and 175 grain. I have found that it does move when changing powers and using the 500yd center crosshair on 100yd. I have not had the same problem when using the 100yd hash mark at 100yd. I think(not 100%) that the rapid z 1000 is more closely ballistically matched to the 308 168/175gr. Atleast that is what the so called specialist said when purchasing the scope. Is that true, beats me but I know that it doesn't take alot of math and hold or dialing to get hits at each distance per each hash mark, ie 600yd, 600yd hash, 800yd, 800yd hash. Also depends on conditions but usually in the ball park, 12 to 18" at 1000yd,a little dial and on target. By no means a first round hit method using the hash marks but close, atleast with my set-up. Hope this helps

 

[livetohunt]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

yes the reticle is matched for a MV of 2650 for the 308 round.Or that was what I was told and it worked great for Blackhills 168 grain Amax out of my rifle.At 600 yards and in it was always spot on but at times had issues out to 1000 depending on temp and pressure but was always close.I used my scope like you are trying to do for a short time and it worked fine but I dont think I ever dialed the scope lower than 18 to 20 power with the max being 24x.I am looking forward to seeing what the guys at pride fowler has to say.!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Manzgear]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

Spoke with John Pride from Pride Folwer Rapid Reticle Scopes. Basically I can use it like intended for the reticles hold over and test it at said distances but in the least I would have to drop my bullet weight to get a min of 2600fps which I dont know if I can get that out of a gas gun with 168's or 175's. or I can use it like I have been but lose the ability to use lower powers. Or Buy another scope. I have other Zeiss scopes like the 3x9x40 and the reticle or Cross hairs are in the exact middle of the scope. The reticle on this scope in question is not. And that is why when I decrease the power I lose my zero POI. he was very nice and the guy just oozes of scope and gun knowledge. So it was nice to get that cleared up but now I am not in love with this scope anymore. anyone have a Schmidt and Bender they can loan me? jk - thanks to everyone who helped me with this.

 

[livetohunt]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

check out the NXS F1 3x15x50 with the LV-5 reticle.That is what I went with on my OBR and I really like it.It is a FFP scope and the reticle is not elevated like the Zeiss.

 

[springer01]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

Interesting! I know I used mine at lower powers, but mine is a 6.5-20x50 with the rapid-z varmint reticle. The reticle doesn't subtend above the center subtension like yours does. So my center is probably true center.

 

[Manzgear]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

So having read this-and after all the phone calls- and for those who are reading this - Basically I need a Scope that is Front or First Focal plane..? Correct? Also if you have any reticle questions I spoke with a woman named Ray at Pride and Fowler. She was very knowledgeable and she was the one who had John Pride call me back.

 

[springer01]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

Not necessarily, you just need a scope that doesn't have a ballistic reticle. But I prefer FFP, YMMV.

 

[Manzgear]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

Ok just wanted to let anyone know that if they have this reticle and dont like it. Zeiss will change out the reticle for them but it will cost $90 plus $15 shipping and the scope you have must come with that reticle or they wont change it. I am sending my scope in today. they quoted me 8 weeks, I hope it doesnt take that long..I will keep everyone updated on zeiss's Service.

 

[fw707]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

I wonder why Zeiss would put target turrets on the scope when you can't use the center reticle to dial for elevation?
A simple capped turret would be all that's needed. All you're going to do is zero the scope, and then you are totally dependent on the ballistic feature.

 

[dieselten]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

which reticle did you order?

 

[woogit69]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Manzgear</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So having read this-and after all the phone calls- and for those who are reading this - Basically I need a Scope that is Front or First Focal plane..? Correct? Also if you have any reticle questions I spoke with a woman named Ray at Pride and Fowler. She was very knowledgeable and she was the one who had John Pride call me back. </div></div>

You should take a look at the PFI scopes. They use similar reticles but they are FFP reticles. The Magnification works from 3-9 without a problem.

 

[Manzgear]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

I am getting the reticle number 43- which is a standard crosshair with mildots. and with that I will not have the problems of changing point of impact with change in power.

 

[Manzgear]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

the reason that will fix the problem is that the reticle will be in the exact middle of the scope. the zplex reticles are not and that is why they loose POI with change in power.

 

[Xdguy]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Manzgear</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok just wanted to let anyone know that if they have this reticle and dont like it. Zeiss will change out the reticle for them but it will cost $90 plus $15 shipping and the scope you have must come with that reticle or they wont change it. I am sending my scope in today. they quoted me 8 weeks, I hope it doesnt take that long..I will keep everyone updated on zeiss's Service. </div></div>

Holy crap!! I have a conquest with the rapid Z reticle and I absolutely hate it. I am about to trade it for something else, but if I can get the reticle changed for a little over $100 bucks, I may just buy another scope and have the reticle in this one changed. I will be giving Zeiss a call tomorrow to verify this information.

 

[harleymann02]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Manzgear</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ok guys I have a Zeiss 4.5x14x50 conquest scope with the Z plex reticle -(1000yd one) and after sighting it in for the reticle hold over I changed my mind and said ok I am going to just use the middle cross hairs and then use the turrets to increase or adjust my elevation and windage. Well I ran into just one big problem. It will hold zero at only 12 power and up to 14 power. If I shoot it at 8 power the rifle shoots around 6-8 inches low. And I thought it was wrong but I checked it and checked it and its true. If anyone knows why they would do this. Please explain? I have been on the phone with the Zeiss people and they dont seem to make any sense. I own three other zeiss scopes all 3x9x40 conquests on hunting rifles and they all function flawlessly - and now this...
it makes me pretty upset that I can't use the lower powers and not be on target with my sighted in POI. I guess its a matter of Money and what you are willing to spend. anyways let me know what you guys think about this </div></div>


I had the same exact scope and if I remember correctly for that reticle Zeiss recommends to zero at 500yards on your (5 crosshair). On Zeiss webpage their is info all about that reticle. Thats also a 2nd focal pane scope so you have to range at a certain mag I think it even has a hash mark on the mag dial that shows you where to set it for figuring your range, was too much thinking for a tard like myself so I traded a camera lens for a USO 3.5-15 SSDS FFP mildot, much less thinking involved, the zeiss is a great scope though once you get it figured out and the glass is just as clear as my USO scope.

Just saw your most recent post and your getting the reticle changed so i guess ignore this post lol Zeiss service is top notch so dont worry about that aspect of it.

 

[Manzgear]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

Xdguy- you can if the reticle you are choosing is available for that scope. Like the scope i have- is available in reticle #43, 20, 4, and the Z plex reticles. So your best bet may be #43 which is a mildot cross hair or the number 4 - which is thicker cross hairs- either way if you go with those your POI wont change with decreasing the magnification power.... good luck. also Karen or Christy Lamm are the women you want to talk to when you call. they would get you set straight.

 

[Manzgear]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

Ok Zeiss received my scope and I just got off the phone with them and it will be 8-10weeks so I opted for the loaner. the just keep your credit card on file in case you dont return the loaner. so we shall see

 

[thewileyone]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

Well I wish that I had read this before I ordered a Z-plex last week...

 

[nobody13]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

Just asking, but did you read the instructions and input ALL the information on teh Zeiss Website? There is a recomended power indication after you input everything Ballistically and the scope's information. I have a Z-600 on a .300WM and it works just fine. I did proof the weapon system. If I remember right, I am 1.3" high POI @ 100Yds with a 180 Gr. Accubond. My opinion is that any BDC works to an extent 100-500 Yards. After that there are getting to be too many variables to depend on a reticle only. Just my .02

 

[powell]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

Have we figured out if "ALL" the Z-Plex reticles are not centered? Or is it just the rapid Z 1000 that the OP was having problems with?

I will run a range test tomorrow with a Z-1000 on a 7STW and a Z-800 on a 300 WSM.

I know the 1000 on the 7STW is not a ballistic match but for a hunting rifle I thought it would work. Only thing I found I didnt like was the fact that the 100 yd hash is above the center line. Thus the 100 yd hash is way off at 4.5x since it is supposed to be true at 14x. Guess this one may be a srong canadate for a change...maybe a z800, tomorrow will tell.

By the looks of the z800 your center crosshair is 100 and substend down, out to 800. i would assume that the center should be true center...We all know what happens when you assume though! We will see.

 

[tipper]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

Holy crap!!
This is an under statement!!
I think Zeiss has mislead everyone with there hipe on Z reticles,
They made a dumbass out of me.
First off the Z-reticle should not be offered in variable power sfp scope if it only works at there OPTIMUM power setting.
Gave up on it because it is not possible to shoot at optimum power.
Can't belive I paid more for this Holy Crapticle!

 

[powell]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tipper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Holy crap!!
This is an under statement!!
I think Zeiss has mislead everyone with there hipe on Z reticles,
They made a dumbass out of me.
First off the Z-reticle should not be offered in variable power sfp scope if it only works at there OPTIMUM power setting.
Gave up on it because it is not possible to shoot at optimum power.
Can't belive I paid more for this Holy Crapticle! </div></div>

All SFP scopes are only true at 1 power setting. If you are using a BDC reticle in any scope it is calibrated at "x" power. You can shoot it and see exactly how it relates to what you are shooting. Same goes with using a reticle to range...only calibrated at "x" power dependant upon which scope you are running.

 

[Manzgear]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

Ok to some these updates may be lame but if I can help one person I feel its worth it. Zeiss received my scope and contacted me I paid them with a CC and was offered a loaner since it was going to take about 8-10 weeks. They offer you a loaner in the same price range and power that you sent in. But I asked for the 6.5x20x50 which is a step up in power from my scope as I wanted to try it and according to the woman Christy in customer service, it will be shipped out on monday. and they will pay for the return shipping on the loaner as well. I also spoke with Karen and she is just as helpful and can hook you up with a loaner as well.... hope this helps... when I have more time I will post the explanation of what Mr Pride explained to me about the reticle and why its not a good idea in a second focal plane scope....

 

[Manzgear]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

got my loaner as promised. 6.5x20x50 with the mildot reticle
sighting it in this weekend.

 

[Scattergun]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

The Mildot is only true at 10x

 

[easternncnative]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder why Zeiss would put target turrets on the scope when you can't use the center reticle to dial for elevation?
A simple capped turret would be all that's needed. All you're going to do is zero the scope, and then you are totally dependent on the ballistic feature. </div></div>

I posed the same question to Bob at Zeiss. I said, "it's marketing isn't it?" He said "Yup."

I own a Zeiss with the Rapid-Z 1000 also- my dope card consists of...Column A- load/av. velocity, Column B-scope magnification setting.

After spending a year using it and learning the Zeiss Ballistic Calculator, I actually like it.

 

[Manzgear]

Re: Zeiss Z plex reticles- not so great..

Ok so i received my Zeiss scope back from zeiss in the mail today after I had them replace the reticle and make it a mildot crosshair instead of the 1000yd Z plex reticle. and it looks great. I guess I had some scratches on my Ocular lense that they replaced and they also replaced the parallax knob as well at no extra charge to me. so I will mount it back on the AR10 shoot it- Zero it and see how it is. But I will say as far as customer service goes Zeiss was great. Karen and Christy are the two women to talk to when you call up if you have issues.