It looks like all of the new Origin actions will be made from stainless.
Zermatt Origin Changes - Now in Stainless
- Thread starter rijndael
- Start date
What about the ones I ordered and paid for in November from SJA? This will be one more hurdle to conquer as if waiting 4 months wasn’t bad enough.
If SJA had them in stock then they will be the chromoly version. Any action created by Zermatt starting today will be the SS version. Functionally, there's not enough difference in chromoly & SS to worry about it. My guess is that they are switching to SS for the increase corrosion resistance when the Nitride start wearing in the raceways or to help with sourcing/cost of material as the TL3 and SR3 are SS as well. Knowing the SN of the change or a way to identify them would be nice but not really needed.
It’s harder, usually more uniform, less likely to gall, and there aren’t many other CM options left. Stainless is nice, I’m a big fan, but when you nitride a CM action you are equalizing the one chief benefit of stainless, corrosion resistance. I like the CM option and I like the cheaper price.
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Crome Moly steel harder and less likely to gall than stainless? That depends entirely on which specific CRES alloy and its specific heat treatment you're comparing it to.
If they are using some form of nitriding case hardening on 416 or any other common firearms CRES alloy, your concerns are not valid.
Usually more uniform? I'm assuming you mean dimensionally uniform? I don't know who told you that, but that's not even close to being correct.
Perhaps laymen should leave this stuff to those who do it professionally?
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Curious about this as well. I already paid in full. Do I have to pay extra when it's back in stock?
Perhaps a better question for SJA...
With ridiculous CA tax and more expensive background check fees I would prefer not to.
(On top of that CA wants to add another $25 tax on every new firearm purchased...although dunno if/when this bill will pass)
I meant more uniform from lot to lot.
Yeah, we’ll see. I’m sure they’ll be great. Zermatt are real pros. I’m not a professional. I am just a guy that’s seen far more galled stainless actions than CM. Not a big deal either way, I always the liked the CM. I’m sure this is great news for the majority of people, good for everybody.
That has nothing to do with the material. And in any case, without proper metrology and access to engineering drawings, you're guessing.
Imagine if someone who knew nothing about your job but stayed at a holiday inn started telling you how to do it.......that's what this is like.
Seeing something and having the education and practical knowledge to understand it are two completely different things.
Guys, it makes no functional difference
Nitride is nitride, hard is hard
If they had never said anything you would have never known
If your order has been placed you got old pricing
Every little ting, gonna be alright...
Nitride is nitride, hard is hard
If they had never said anything you would have never known
If your order has been placed you got old pricing
Every little ting, gonna be alright...
I am pretty happy about this as I am ordering a long action for hunting. I want stainless everything after being in a tent in the mountains where the temp is 70 in the day and ends up freezing at night. Condensation on everything...
Stainless more corrosion resistant? Not so fast...
Don’t worry @308pirate I’ll get this one for you.
That depends on the specific alloys and treatments being compared. These actions aren’t just steel alloys, they are treated steel alloys. Some CRES alloys are not nearly as corrosion resistant by themselves as laymen might think. In the same way, some treatments can provide an excellent level of corrosion resistance to high carbon steel.
You really need fixed term experiments with lab verified oxidizing agents, double blind applications, and independent verification before you can make general statements like that. Even then, with only one data set, you would need several repetitions / variations to even BEGIN to see the range spectrum for the different alloy compositions or any environmental, instrumental, procedural, and human errors within the experiment.
Let the pros do their job.
Don’t worry @308pirate I’ll get this one for you.
That depends on the specific alloys and treatments being compared. These actions aren’t just steel alloys, they are treated steel alloys. Some CRES alloys are not nearly as corrosion resistant by themselves as laymen might think. In the same way, some treatments can provide an excellent level of corrosion resistance to high carbon steel.
You really need fixed term experiments with lab verified oxidizing agents, double blind applications, and independent verification before you can make general statements like that. Even then, with only one data set, you would need several repetitions / variations to even BEGIN to see the range spectrum for the different alloy compositions or any environmental, instrumental, procedural, and human errors within the experiment.
Let the pros do their job.
To be fair, when I expect a woman to be dickless, I dont just expect for it to be smaller than mine...You mean stains LESS steel doesn’t mean stain proof?
If you want to see how bad a stainless rifle can rust, I will take a picture of a stainless 17hmr that rides in the sidexside fulltime and hasn’t seen indoors or oil in about 5-6 years at least. Let me know and I will snap a photo and post it tomorrow.You mean stains LESS steel doesn’t mean stain proof?
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Great! So which Zermatt action is most likely to exhibit the most corrosion resistance after rubbing on gear, branches, inside a scabbard etc. where the outside finish is likely to wear off? I will let the Pros do their job and post the answer. Thanks!
I’m far from any sort of engineer or scientist when it comes to metallurgy, coatings, etc... From my field experience I can confirm, I can make any metal exhibit signs of corrosion. I can show you one of my nitrided rifles with corrosion, granted it took a salt water bath when the skiff dumped us into the ocean. Pull 20+ year old fabric off a bush plane wing (aluminum), the corrosion almost resembles white mold.
At the end of the day, from an end user standpoint, who gives 2 fucks?! Every metal can corrode. Coatings and treatments, can help protect the base metal. My rifles are tools, they get used, scratches happen and now coatings and so called “treatments” are voided at that site, but with reasonable care, a person can prevent or remove surface corrosion before it’s a real problem.
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Of course you can prevent or remove surface corrosion. It just becomes much more of a pain when it is 2300, you are soaking wet lying on your side in a backpacking tent and now you have to make sure your rifle is completely wiped down or you will end up with surface rust. Once you have it, it gets easier and easier to get more and you will end up with pitting. I have played this game before. This is from my many years of field experience including when I was a hunting guide in MT. I haven't seen anyone say stainless can't corrode, I have seen that the stainless rifles are easier to maintain.
I missed some context and came on a bit strong on the OP, my bad. For the most part, barring some extreme conditions, I agree with you. With a reasonable amount of care, 99% of the time, corrosion won’t be an issue.
Don’t go swimming in the ocean with your rifle like what happened to me. After fishing my 375 h&h off the bottom and getting back to the village that night, I literally hosed it down with fresh water, pulled it completely apart, oiled and cleaned it. The nitrided CM barreled action still corroded over night, not wide spread, but spots here and there. I’m curious if it had been stainless base metal if it would’ve faired better, but not enough to repeat that experience.
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