Zeus bolt lift compared to Tikka

[sprink21]

I’m about to pull the trigger on a Zeus qc but keep looking at the Impact 737 and keep second guessing myself. I’m leaning toward the Zeus because of the 60deg bolt because my current target rifle is a Tikka and I like the bolt operation of it granted I haven’t ever owned anything other than Tikka’s. Is the bolt lift on the Zeus more or less than a factory Tikka? I think I’ll be happy if it’s at least the same but not heavier. Anyone that’s had a chance to use both the Zeus and Tikka I’d love to hear your opinions on the two.

 

[K80/6.5]

I was actually wondering that same thing. I really like my tikka with sterk swept bolt. I’m also interested in both the Zeus and AI ATX.

 

[Ty21]

It should be less because the tikka has a 70 degree throw and the zues is 60… as for heaviness I’m not sure don’t have my zues yet and have never owned a tikka. Why were u looking at the impact? That’s a 90 degree

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

It should be less because the tikka has a 70 degree throw and the zues is 60… as for heaviness I’m not sure don’t have my zues yet and have never owned a tikka. Why were u looking at the impact? That’s a 90 degree

Backwards. Shorter the bolt throw, the same amount of work needs to be done in a shorter distance, IE heavier. I have a bunch of tikka's and shot competivley with a Tac A1 for a season. The tikka smoother and easier to run the bolt than the terminus 3 lugs.

OP go with the impact and don't look back. I have both impact and terminus actions and if I did it again, I would get another impact. They are hands down the best actions on the market, with amazing ecosystem and zero tinkering or mods required out of the box to get them to function like Lone Peaks. Terminus makes great actions, but its also a one man shop. If anything ever happened to Joel, you are fucked.

You will almost never see people go from impact to another action. You will see people switching to impact. After playing with mine at a match today, I may have convinced a guy with an AT-X to join the team for the big win.

 

[sprink21]

Really only looked at the Impact because because of how popular it is in the PRS crowd and that everyone raves about how smooth and lite the bolt lift is. I’ve spent several weeks looking at comparisons and it always seems like the Zeus and 737 end up being the most popular choice for either a two or three lug action

 

[sprink21]

Backwards. Shorter the bolt throw, the same amount of work needs to be done in a shorter distance, IE heavier. I have a bunch of tikka's and shot competivley with a Tac A1 for a season. The tikka smoother and easier to run the bolt than the terminus 3 lugs.

OP go with the impact and don't look back. I have both impact and terminus actions and if I did it again, I would get another impact. They are hands down the best actions on the market, with amazing ecosystem and zero tinkering or mods required out of the box to get them to function like Lone Peaks. Terminus makes great actions, but its also a one man shop. If anything ever happened to Joel, you are fucked.

You will almost never see people go from impact to another action. You will see people switching to impact. After playing with mine at a match today, I may have convinced a guy with an AT-X to join the team for the big win.

This is what I was looking for! I definitely don’t want a heavier bolt lift then what I currently have on my Tikka CTR

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

The two big differences between the impact and the zues, other than the 2vs 3 lug action.

The Impact uses trigger hangers. They come in different angles so you can make bolt timing much easier.
The Zues comes with threaded trigger pins. Really nice not having to bang with a hammer.

I will take the ultra ease of timing and reliability of the trigger hanger over saving a 20 seconds installing a trigger with an allen vs a hammer & punch.

Now certain chassis like KRG may need a relief cut to accommodate the trigger hanger but virtually all chassis and stocks already have the cutout for them (Foundations, Manners, MPA, MDT, ect).

 

[Pat McGroin]

That is kind of the problem with custom actions. Everyone can tell you about a Remington or Savage or Winchester but so far no one has commented on a Zeus action.

The name alone puts me off. How lame does one have to be to recycle that name. I can think of countless objects including a Bb trumpet built in California by a now out of business company but sold through a Canadian music store with the same name. Given the large nature of the Roman Pantheon going for Zeus is about as lame as it get's!

What is next the Metatron action or Trismegistus action maybe the Enochian action or the Ezekiel action. I do not want to leave anyone out maybe the Lord Zenon action or the Joseph Smith action. Maybe a line of can's named after various Ascended Master and Archons!LOL

How hard do you guys have to look to find actions with such lame names. Why does anyone go looking that hard and go past Nesika Bay, Defiance, Bat, Kelbly, Mausingfield, Stiller, Big Horn, Surgeon, Borden and so many other's?

So I had to google this Zeus action at least I am aware of Terminus. $1550 to $1625 for the action. What could you possible get in that action over a blueprinted off the shelf action. I bet if I sent one off to Greg Tannel he could find something wrong with it!

I have to admit though a roller tipped cocking piece does sound pretty cool!

It does look like an impressive design! I can not fault that. I just doubt that it is so much better than a blueprinted off the shelf action as to be worth the added cost. Compared to a reworked Tikka, Sako, Howa, Remington, Savage, Winchester etc.... I mean this in relationship to Sniper Hide not BR type use. The margin of human error in Palma, Across the Course, Silhouette, PRS, F-Open, F-T/R is such that most of any inherent advantage that a premium boutique action like this is wasted in these sports. The difference being better spent on extra barrels, powder, primers, upgraded airline tickets etc....

Outside of just wanting one just because which is perfectly acceptable it is like paying $1,000,000 for a European Super Car just to get matched or beaten on track day by a $1,00,000 Corvette with fuzzy dice hanging from the rear view! Plus the babe riding shotgun on the weekend will be just as hot and sexy in both cars! LOL

I love how all of these boutique action makers have to do "Remington 700 foot print"! LOL The ultimate in white trash actions because they are the softest market in the industry and everyone and their mom makes stocks, bottom metal, trigger's, trigger, bases for the Remington 700. If they did not make it "Remington 700" compatible they would not sell 1/10th as many which tells you or me all I need to know. Imagine if Toyota made an engine and marketed it as compatible with LS/LT engine parts! On principal alone I would not purchase it!

I will never buy anything that is marketed as "compatible with this other brand that is not good enough for you but is convenient for bolt ons"! If anything we should demand that companies make stocks and bottom metal for Ruger Americans, WInchester's, Howa's, Tikka's and other's instead of going after the soft market and obsolete markets endlessly! I will never purchase a TriggerTech trigger until they make them for Mauser's, Howa's,Rugger Americans, Ruger M77's Mkii's! Stop giving money to companies that just want to pander to the soft markets!

 

[Ty21]

Sounds like you get the impact

 

[hafejd30]

I agree with @DeathBeforeDismount on this

@fclassparadise got savage actions blueprinted…so I didn’t even read his novel above

 

[Pat McGroin]

I have a zeus and a tikka. The zeus bolt lift feels slightly heavier than the tikka. So small a difference that I’d bet you would be used to it the first day of shooting. But if that’s the most important factor to you, I guess go with something 90 degree or stick with the tikka.

 

[Pat McGroin]

Bolt lift is mostly a function of camming surfaces and those can not be predicted they must be felt. The degree's of lift are determined by number of lugs and positioning. The camming surfaces though are what cocks the firing pin and some are on opening, on closing or on both. All of the points of contact and the design of the firing pin and springs all go into effort to opena nd close the bolt.

When people like Greg sleeve a bolt they are making the bolt shaft into the primary caming surface so that the lugs carry no weight or force from camming and all of that is not part of the elliptical bolt sleeve. The lugs are essentially floated and mechanically removed from the force of the firing pin spring so that no torsion is on them and they have no choice but to sit square and true.

If you split camming into opening and closing again you cut the effective felt resistance in half. Camming surfaces are just as important as precision of machine work since harmonics, tension in the system, torsion speed of ignition, firing pin bounce all play a role. I am sure you have fired a two lug bolt design on a mainstream action and seen the bolt lift a bit upon firing. That is not a good thing it means that the firing pin was twisting the lugs out of alignment and when that 20lbs+ force was removed the bolt relaxed and moved. Lapping the lugs is kind of a trashy way of trying to get around that phenomenon. It helps but is not nearly enough. On pre-1950's maybe 1960's actions it is about all you dare do unless you are willing to re-heat treat the action because we do not know how well or how deep the heat treat was on previous actions. Post 1950's metallurgy and machining processes improved the consistency enough that we felt fine machining all the surfaces to suit our needs post production.

Case in point the two Savages I took apart and sent out for machine work do not have 1/2 as much metal in the action as a typical WWI and WWII LR Mauser. THe difference though is not so much the quality of the steel as much as it is the quality and consistency of the heat treatment depth. For instance if you machine the area the lugs of the bolt lock into on a WWI or WWII Mauser you have to worry about the bolt setting back in that area because the metal is too soft after machining. That is why people generally just lapp the lugs so as not to disturb the surface heat treat in the locking area. It is to air on the side of caution.

When you specifically design an action you can design what ever features you want into the design if you have a solid background in engineering and you have a historical perspective of what has been done to date and why!


Sadly one can also repeat the mistakes of the past if one is not a student of history and design. You can have a really poor design machined fantastically and it will just be a fantastically machined turd! You can likewise have a fantastic design machined poorly.

Price is the worst possible way to determine design quality or build quality or actual worth or value. Price is a function of marketing and nothing more!Exclusivity means nothing by itself it is only when the rest of the design elements can be measured and compared that it means anything.

The guys that design and build these machines will never actual go on public record with anything like data and direct comparisons because they fear being sued into oblivion. This is always the problem. I find it telling though that not a single military on the Earth uses these high end actions. Keep in mind these same militaries will pay $20,000 for a toilet seat on a B1 bomber so even people with tax payer dollars that will spend insane amounts for fairly simple things do not see fit to purchase their wares!

Here’s the stats on your two posts in this thread. All this and nothing even close to actually answering the question that this thread is about.

 

[Hennig]

This is what I was looking for! I definitely don’t want a heavier bolt lift then what I currently have on my Tikka CTR

Just keep in mind this lad runs around to every thread remotely related to actions and sucks of the Impact like he is getting paid to do it. It’s bonkers.

 

[TylerN]

I shot a Tikka for years and because of that 90 degree bolt lift feels goofy to me. The transition to a Zues from a Tikka would probably be easier but if light bolt lift is a critical factor the. Take the time and switch over to the Impact.

 

[Supersubes]

Just keep in mind this lad runs around to every thread remotely related to actions and sucks of the Impact like he is getting paid to do it. It’s bonkers.

At least he doesn't take 1300 words to get his point across.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Just keep in mind this lad runs around to every thread remotely related to actions and sucks of the Impact like he is getting paid to do it. It’s bonkers.

Some of us compete and some of us shoot at dirt piles. Come shoot some matches and maybe you will learn something. About half of all PRS shooters suck off impact too.

 

[jb0311]

Just keep in mind this lad runs around to every thread remotely related to actions and sucks of the Impact like he is getting paid to do it. It’s bonkers.

Maybe instead of needlessly trying to pick a fight, you could say why you wouldn’t recommend an impact? Or at least something of value to the OP’s question.

 

[sprink21]

Just out of curiosity has anyone measured the bolt lift in lbs on either action. I wondering how much of a difference there is. The biggest reason I keep going back to the Zeus is the quick barrel change feature. I think getting a second bolt and barrel to do swaps at the range to shoot .223 to save money and reloading components would be cool

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

The quick change is a gimmick IMO. You can swap shouldered prefits too. I actually have a trailer hitch mount with a SAC barrel vise I can swap from 6.5/6gt barrels to .223 for practice. Just swap barrel, Bolt and mags. Takes less than 10 minutes to tear gun down, swap barrels and torque back up. A few guys with impacts I know do this as well, but you can do it with any action.

 

[wade2big]

I’ve never fooled with a Zues action but I have had Curtis Axioms (terminus comparable) and Tikkas. A curtis axiom with a 60 degree bolt lift was slightly lighter than the tikkas 70 but not enough to make any practical difference. If I stood on the axiom bolt handle, you could still cycle the action. Those things won’t bind and are slick. Tikkas are great as well in that department.

I did get to shoot my first impact action a few weeks ago and it is no better or worse than the others. It really comes down to if a man prefers a 90 degree bolt lift or something shorter. I prefer shorter so any 90 degree action, including Impact, is automatically out of consideration.

 

[hafejd30]

Since switching to AI’s and Tikkas I really don’t care for my 90° Rem 700 platforms. Just my preference of course

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I for one love the qc. I have a zues and 2 Valors and a few others. I definitely prefer the qc. It's a pia to take a BA out of a chassis to change the barrel and then you have the wrap the barrel and put it in a vice and not scratch it..... changing a barrel with vice isn't super hard or anything, but I got super tired of taking my BA out of the chassis, taking my scope off, and changing it. The QC is way better and definitely works extremely well. There's a reason I now have 3 QC actions. It works great and is just a ton easier. I don't swap barrels all the time or anything, but when I do, I sure don't miss all the crap I used to have to do.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Also the zues bolt lift is more than a Tikka. That's one of the things I don't like. My zermatt actions are easier to run than the zues and the Valor is a little easier to run than the zues but the zues is "nicer" if that makes sense. I much prefer running my zermatts but the qc feature outweighs that for me so it's not some massive issue or anything just to put that in perspective for the op

 

[wade2big]

I for one love the qc. I have a zues and 2 Valors and a few others. I definitely prefer the qc. It's a pia to take a BA out of a chassis to change the barrel and then you have the wrap the barrel and put it in a vice and not scratch it..... changing a barrel with vice isn't super hard or anything, but I got super tired of taking my BA out of the chassis, taking my scope off, and changing it. The QC is way better and definitely works extremely well. There's a reason I now have 3 QC actions. It works great and is just a ton easier. I don't swap barrels all the time or anything, but when I do, I sure don't miss all the crap I used to have to do.

You could have left the action in the chassis and the scope on the action when pulling the barrel. The vice will grab the muzzle end just the same. Either way the qc is easier for sure.

 

[sprink21]

Also the zues bolt lift is more than a Tikka. That's one of the things I don't like. My zermatt actions are easier to run than the zues and the Valor is a little easier to run than the zues but the zues is "nicer" if that makes sense. I much prefer running my zermatts but the qc feature outweighs that for me so it's not some massive issue or anything just to put that in perspective for the op

This is kinda where I’m at. I get that barrel changes aren’t hard but require extra tools vs the quick change I just need a allen wrench and can do it pretty much anywhere.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

You could have left the action in the chassis and the scope on the action when pulling the barrel. The vice will grab the muzzle end just the same. Either way the qc is easier for sure.

Well that depends on the barrel and the chassis. You can't do that with a carbon barrel and there's other SS barrels that I didn't want to do it with. With an enclosed forend you pretty much have the take the BA out unless it's a very long barrel, but even if you didn't the qc works very well ime and is super easy.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

This is kinda where I’m at. I get that barrel changes aren’t hard but require extra tools vs the quick change I just need a allen wrench and can do it pretty much anywhere.

On the other hand, you always have to adjust your zero in some way of course and I think most who get a qc think they will swap barrels more than they actually do with it. That said, I definitely prefer the qc action, even if it's only 4 times a year you change the barrel, it's worth it to me.

 

[C Cape]

Backwards. Shorter the bolt throw, the same amount of work needs to be done in a shorter distance, IE heavier. I have a bunch of tikka's and shot competivley with a Tac A1 for a season. The tikka smoother and easier to run the bolt than the terminus 3 lugs.

OP go with the impact and don't look back. I have both impact and terminus actions and if I did it again, I would get another impact. They are hands down the best actions on the market, with amazing ecosystem and zero tinkering or mods required out of the box to get them to function like Lone Peaks. Terminus makes great actions, but its also a one man shop. If anything ever happened to Joel, you are fucked.

You will almost never see people go from impact to another action. You will see people switching to impact. After playing with mine at a match today, I may have convinced a guy with an AT-X to join the team for the big win.

Trying to figure out what you have seen people have to modify on a Lone Peak to get them to work? Mine has worked flawlessly since I bought it.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Trying to figure out what you have seen people have to modify on a Lone Peak to get them to work? Mine has worked flawlessly since I bought it.

 

[C Cape]

Was the extractor hanging?

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Was the extractor hanging?

With certain scope mounts and case designs, if you do not make this mod, the brass will not extract from the chamber, it will bounce back in and cause a malfunction. I am not exactly sure how it happens, but I presume it changes the angle that the case gets flung out, helping it clear the port instead of hitting the top of the action/Sphur bar and bouncing back in.

Its a known issue with most the big Lone Peak smiths, they just don't talk about it.

I brought it up to the loan peak guys at a NRL hunter match a year or so ago. They pretended like they didn't know what I was talking about, which is bullshit becuase I know 2 guys who called them and asked them how to fix it. This was the advice they were given.

Lone peak makes a great action, its just something to keep in mind.

 

[C Cape]

Everything has issues it seems. I know people who carry extra firing pins and bolts around for their impacts due to having problems with bent firing pins.

I haven’t had any issues with my setup yet. So here’s knocking on wood .

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I have only seen one person have issue with impact, and he was blowing up firing pins too. Shooting 22GT. @Birddog6424 knows what I am talking about.

 

[hafejd30]

All these issues are nothing a 7 axis dremel can’t fix

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I would not buy a Zeus. It intrigued me but I saw pics of the set screws and that's not what I want holding a barrel tight. Impact is the way to go.

Well that depends on the barrel and the chassis. You can't do that with a carbon barrel and there's other SS barrels that I didn't want to do it with. With an enclosed forend you pretty much have the take the BA out unless it's a very long barrel, but even if you didn't the qc works very well ime and is super easy.

Not sure what makes you think you can't grab a CF barrel on the CF in front of forend, but Proof says you can with their CF barrels. They say just wrap the barrel in leather or something else to protect it but otherwise treat it like you would a steel barrel and I've done exactly that without any issue.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I would not buy a Zeus. It intrigued me but I saw pics of the set screws and that's not what I want holding a barrel tight. Impact is the way to go.




Not sure what makes you think you can't grab a CF barrel on the CF in front of forend, but Proof says you can with their CF barrels. They say just wrap the barrel in leather or something else to protect it but otherwise treat it like you would a steel barrel and I've done exactly that without any issue.

The set screw only keeps it from turning so its not really holding it but I get what your saying. There hasn't been any issues for any of the qc actions that I'm aware of has there? I hear ya but, it works pretty well and has been out in the wild for a while now without issue between AI, Terminus, and Curtis actions, that's a good bit of them to be out there.

I didn't know that about a carbon barrel though. I thought it was a no no to treat the carbon wrapped part like a steel barrel and as tight as you have to crank it down I'd be too worried I'd mess it up.

 

[ma smith]

Impact is the way to go.

This is something people should google before for themselves>

impact vs lone peak site:www.snipershide.com - Google Search