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grauhanen · 2024-12-22T09:48:51-0500

David Lott said:
Does the process (how it is chambered/Crowned) dictate how a good lot of ammo performs? and I am speaking using quality match ammo(Lapua, Eley, RWS, Norma Match)

David Lott said:
I edited to clarify, the process of chambering/crown. The same parts are available to anyone yet some rifles perform better than others across a wider variety of ammo and lots.

The chambering and crowning are only two parts. The round goes into the chamber and exits the muzzle.

The part in between -- the bore -- also has a role because not all bores are equal. The bore is at least as, perhaps more, important, as chambering and crowning in ammo performance. Performance is not dictated by one or two parts of the trifecta.

David Lott said:
We have more .22s being shot than ever before in the history of .22, how can we not know more and have answers?

The trouble is the data is inconsistently collected and even more inconsistently analyzed. The vast majority of the shooters referred to are very casual shooters. The vast majority of results are little more than anecdotal reports, often tinged with misinformation and misunderstanding.

More serious shooters frequently don't record or analyze results in sufficiently similar or uniform ways. Reliable answers depend on comparing data that is as much apples to apples as possible.

To illustrate with an example, there's little or no accumulated reliable evidence for the performance of fast twist barrels versus standard twist. There are anecdotal reports one way or another but little that's the result of careful testing under similar conditions.

David Lott said:
Barrels are different from one to another but we have seen a trend over 300 barrels or so.

Barrels are indeed different. But each ostensibly does the very same thing, which is to send rounds downrange with as much accuracy and precision as possible.

Trends seen over hundreds of presumably good barrels may suggest that similarities are the result of the ammo. In other words, when ammo is good it does well in many barrels. When ammo is less-than-good, it does less well in many barrels.

NHPiper · 2024-12-22T09:46:53-0500

NHPiper · 2024-12-22T09:46:23-0500

jcwarrior87 · 2024-12-22T09:45:39-0500

Teflon16 · 2024-12-22T09:45:11-0500

Sold to 356tsw

timesublime · 2024-12-22T09:45:03-0500

timesublime · 2024-12-22T09:44:33-0500

timesublime · 2024-12-22T09:44:01-0500

jcwarrior87 · 2024-12-22T09:43:46-0500

timesublime · 2024-12-22T09:43:27-0500

jcwarrior87 · 2024-12-22T09:43:14-0500

David Lott · 2024-12-22T09:42:01-0500

justin amateur said:
Are precision rimfire rifles ammo picky?

Yeah. They require the uniformly best made cartridges available.
No rifle can fix problems caused by ammunition
that has variations in assembly, components, primer/powder amounts,
chemistry or has been subjected to rough handling, extreme temperatures.
Asymmetric bullets and variations in center of balance
will affect how the bullet reacts with the rifling and atmosphere
after it exits the barrel. If a box of cartridges produced good results,
it would do so from any properly built rifle.
If it produces strays and vertical spread,
that'll happen also with other competition grade rifles.

No two cartridges that roll off the assembly line are identical.
No two boxes, bricks, cases of cartridges are exactly the same.
Variations in trajectories are caused by lack of uniformity, cartridge to cartridge.
Get a run of well made cartridges, similar in quality,
you obtain similar behavior and trajectories.
If you are sold cartridges that have issues with components/assembly,
it doesn't matter how good the rifle, the ammunition will cause problems.

Well made cartridges produce predictable trajectories
when used in any competition grade rifles.
Cartridge quality as it made, is not a constant.
Some boxes, bricks, cases will be better/more uniform than others.
Get a bad box, the rifle gets blamed for having a brand preference.
Get a good box, then the rifle "liked" that brand.
Failure to recognize the existence of variations in cartridge quality
and thinking that every cartridge is identical,
is responsible for the concept of rifles being "picky".

Uniformly well made cartridges will produce better results from all rifles
than cartridges with issues behave in those same rifles.
My rifle likes Lapua and hates Eley but loves RWS
can change with the next purchase of ammunition.
Now it likes Eley, loves Lapua and the RWS reeks.
Cartridge quality is not the same, moment to moment during manufacture.
Batch testing at the factory does not catch all the problems.
Welcome to the assembly line lottery.

Spot on, which is why I chose my wording the way I did. I had a lot of midas+ that would shoot basically the same one hole 5 shot groups in every barreled action we built and tested. Other lots will group similarly across multiple barrels we do. If it is a .2 it will do .2 across many, if it is a .5 lot same scenario. We have seen this trend over 300 barrels with various actions(vudoo, rim x, bergara. Cz, volquartsen summit). That tells me how it is done(process) matters. The feed back from good shooters verifies our findings.

Guns&WhiteWater · 2024-12-22T09:41:55-0500

I agree with @jbuck88 in that 3x on the low end can be a liability depending on your conditions. I have been around the world on my general purpose 16” 308 hunting rifle trying to find the perfect optic for my needs, starting with open sights then moving to the scout platform with a fixed 2.5ish scout scope, then to a FFP 4-14 SHV and quickly on to a SFP 2.5-8, then to a Sig Romeo red dot and now to a VX5 3-15 (SFP mil/mil). I am not overly happy with this combo because it’s too much of a compromise in both directions and I prefer FFP. I mostly hunt in heavily wooded timber but often take it out to 500 on the range for fun. However, I would rather my range sessions suffer from the scope being SFP and having a bit lower resolution on maximum magnification than my hunting suffer from too high of a minimum mag and too thin of a reticle. Unfortunately there are very few FFP scopes that properly balance the mag range and reticle for true dual use so I tried this SFP option.

The best SFP scope I have found for dedicated hunting in the thick stuff is the VX5 2-10 with the fire dot reticle. It is great for point and shoot situations where 150 yards is a long shot and deer and pigs can be on the move. The dot is daylight bright and quick to acquire. It has a locking elevation dial, a small form factor, and is very light. The only negative I find is that it’s MOA. My preferred FFP hunting optic is a T6Xi 3-18, but it suffers in bright daylight in close-in situations due to the thinness of the MSR2 at low magnification, and it’s as heavy as a brick. But everything else is done right. It’s tracked accurately out to 1250 yards on steel and the center-only cross illumination is very finely graduated on the dimmer levels so as not to be a target distraction in low light conditions. I just switched over to the new Area 419 mount so I am going to top it with a mini red dot to help in these situations.

Lot of rambling here, but hope it helps.

021411 · 2024-12-22T09:40:53-0500

Goos said:
I’m personally excited for this division and will definitely be shooting matches with my hunting rifle. while I’m very nearly there, have almost 2000 rounds on the 6.5CM barrel I’ve been running and my rifle is NRL qualifying but not under 13lbs. What’s best way to shed 1.5lbs in barrel from a 5lb 26” steel barrel to make weight. Already in a manners LRH with lightweight rings and a 34oz kahles.

Carbon wrapped proof or fluted bartlein #3B or #4?

I weighed a 26” Proof carbon Sendero chambered in 6.5CM and it was 48.3 oz (3.0 lbs) on my shipping scale.
I also recall PBB via email telling me that the .750 Taperless profile fluted will be under 3 pounds.

abn_surfer · 2024-12-22T09:40:25-0500

I thought I had this guy sold, but the deal fell through. Never the less, the system is avaible and ready to ship.

7mm-08 Freak · 2024-12-22T09:38:34-0500

spife7980 said:
You find someone local and hand it to them.

Yeah, I’m out in West Texas. Not a very big metropolitan area kinda hard to find somebody local, but that would be awesome. If I could I just hate to see it go to waste. I don’t have enough to really build a good load and sustain it.

EddieNFL · 2024-12-22T09:36:57-0500

Combined with Motrin, we should all be healthy enough to re-enlist.

6brshooter · 2024-12-22T09:29:52-0500

jbuck88 said:
Not sure if it’s a wide spread problem or not, but a friends 6.5prc will not eject a live round without pulling the bolt past the bolt stop. The tip of the bullet won’t clear the ejection port.

I know there was a guy here that had issues with a factory 6.5prc ammo not clearing ejection port. I'm pretty sure the port size is 2.98-3.0", so that was long ammo. This is a 6.5prc in short action problem, and ejecting a live rd isn't a huge deal that is saw with every rd chambered(say like failing to eject empty cases). I specified a .155 freebore on 6.5prc for short actions so I can use 140 and 147 in 300wsm mags and chase throat as needed. The .188 saami freebore is a bit long for sa and heavy bullets/vld types. I had an origin sa in 6.5prc and it would catch empty cases between upper rear corner of port and top rd in mag. Mechanical ejector and not starting the ejection process till the end was an issue. Yes, I could of messed with mags to maybe get it to work, but there wasn't much bolt head/top rd overlap and I hated to decrease that overlap. My solus pva 22creed is a hammer and is pretty slick, so is my origin, and my badgers, and my old AIs. The tikkas were nice and shot great, even had trg22 triggers on them. I was not a fan of the zero repair parts or Beretta support. I know lri makes a bolt and sometimes parts are available at MGW.

spife7980 · 2024-12-22T09:20:04-0500

You find someone local and hand it to them.

spife7980 · 2024-12-22T09:19:13-0500

Let also not discount that people are putting groups in paper that are smaller than the stats would say is allowable.

You can ignore your velocity stats until you stop hitting what you are aiming at.

Crgchck · 2024-12-22T09:17:10-0500

Any interest in a Schmidt bender pmii 4-16x50 with badger rings illuminated p4f reticle dual rotation turret.. MOA cw elevation .

Nvcnvc · 2024-12-22T09:14:46-0500

I’ll take those. Can you PM me payment info please? Thank you

bigdaddydmd · 2024-12-22T09:08:36-0500

Franko said:
If you want to sculpt and paint miniatures Warhammer is great. If you want to actually play a wargame you better be playing with/against friends or else your going to end wasting a ton of time and money arguing about game mechanics with autistic rules lawyers at your local game store.

Check out the trailers for Pariah Nexus on Youtube if you haven't already. You might enjoy it.

The same can be said for Battletech. Lots of fun with friends. I prefer the boomertech Intro periods. Had a few soldiers drag a bunch of warhammer 40k tabletop with them to Iraq. Gave them shit to do during downtime. Always loked interesting. The lore is pretty impressive. I read a few of the 40k AD books.

jbuck88 · 2024-12-22T09:08:25-0500

6brshooter said:
I hear this "aero is known for problems," I guess I've been lucky and never had any issue building on their upper and lowers. In fact, most people consider their lower as good as any other forged ar lower. I would appreciate any link to known aero problems. You got me on tha BA barrels, but I'm sure they were trying to hit a pricepoint/profit margin and the ba allows it. I certainly would not buy a factory solus, but that is more due to barrel calibers/contour/length preferences. I have saw several groups and reports that appear favorable on the factory solus barrels, so I'm not gonna throw stones.

My 2 tikkas, 308 tactical(old one) and a 260 master sporter both shot good, .5-.75moa. Both got rebarreled at some point with kreigers and shot better yet, obviously.

Sometimes triggers go down, no combination is bullet proof(AI with factory triggers are close), but let's be real, 700 triggers aren't failing left and right. At least not anymore that tikka bolt handles have separated or lost right bolt lug(lol, had to). I guess what I'm saying, is arguing over tikka vs solus is like the battle for smartest kid on the short bus. I will say there is always more used stock/trigger options on this px, or any forum, for a rem 700pattern rifle, vs a tikka

Not sure if it’s a wide spread problem or not, but a friends 6.5prc will not eject a live round without pulling the bolt past the bolt stop. The tip of the bullet won’t clear the ejection port.

Niles Coyote · 2024-12-22T09:07:51-0500

You could get there with a 22" remington varmint or a 23" heavy fluted m24 as Ken did.

I was 15oz over with my remington varmint 700 22" barrel, harris/grey ops bipod, mk5 7-35 and mdt acc gen2 chassis. I'd have enough room to add .my suppressor if I switched stocks out to one of the carbon options.

Here is a place you can war game your barrel.

Barrel Weight Calculator – Pac-Nor Barreling –

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