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Current Surgeon vs AI Action

Long Range 338
OP

Don't let a bunch of guys on the internet tell you what YOU need. The info you are getting is what we as individuals think are the most important parts of a rifle and with our own bias of what makes it best.

What you really should do is attend a small local match and try to get some time behind several rifles and have a genuine conversation with the owners about the pros/cons of their rifles system.

Oddly enough there is a lot of shade thrown about AI failures but only in the "trust me, it happens a lot" scenario... All systems have failures and from my few observations of failures (trust me, it happens a lot) it is typically caused by user error in some way or another. Mismatching components, adjusting triggers outside of their listed parameters, etc.

If you ask me what the best rifle ever built is, I would tell you the AXMC is the bestest. Does that make it the best rifle for PRS? Would you even like it if you shot it? Only you can answer these questions in the end.

There are a ton of great actions out there and you won't be disappointed by any of them - even if there are features of another brand that you decide you can't live without.
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Current Surgeon vs AI Action

kthomas
Vivacious Stallion said:
Lol, there is definitely some deciphering to do above.

Personally, once things are squared away, neither platform should encounter problems in normal conditions. The 700 potentially needs more tweaking when setting it up with your mags depending on how the stars align. The AI should just run out of the box. But neither of my customs have posed any real hassle.

Based on the 2 local prs matches a month and ~ 4 big 2-day matches a year I attend (I'm not a PRS legend). From what I have seen, the trigger is the only "action" related failure that seems to occur now. This isn't a common occurance, but definitely happens in some of the western desert areas I'm in, every so often. I'm not counting other shenanigans like barrels loosening, or optics failing.

Unfortunately, my AXSR is my only bolt action to have had trigger issues in a match so far and I have seen one AT with the old trigger have issues, so the AI is not immune. I have not yet seen issues with my Bix TSP or TT diamond, but I've seen several TTs go down before. This is out in sand hell though.
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The current quality of actions and parts makes the reliability argument such a dumb one.

Back in the day was a much different story. AI's were clearly superior to custom built rifles when it came to adverse conditions. If you didn't want to get an AI, Surgeon was really the only game in town that could provide a field reliable action, but you were still stuck with BR type triggers.

It's different today. Pretty much all of the actions, definitely all the regularly recommended ones here, are designed for use in adverse conditions. So are sensitive components like triggers.

Anything man-made can and will eventually fail in the right set of conditions. But precision rifles have come an incredibly long way in the past decade. You don't need to choose between an AI or custom rifle to get reliability anymore.
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SOLD 2 vets no name V2 and 55mm ball head $630 for the pair shipped @MrCleaners

BigDaddy0381
I have a used like new V2 and 55mm ball head.

Pm for questions for maybe more pics if needed. No marks but pics have a ton of dust. This was before the rubber twisty things on the leg ajustable locks.

$630 for the pair shipped
$185 for the ball head
$445 for the tripod.


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Noveske DDF Barrels

J Max
pangris said:
So I'll admit, I'm not very tactical. I just kill pigs and coyotes, usually with a 12.5" or 20" Grendel, Noveske builds, Noveske barrels.

I struggle to understand what is gained from "heating them up" with 40 rounds and checking accuracy at that point. It is a free country and if you want to do 5 mag dumps and check accuracy - hell, I'm academically curious at that point myself - but... why?

As I say every chance I get, I have 3 Noveske Grendels and on most days with factory Hornady ammo, I can reliably generate .6 MOA 5 shot groups. I've struggled to put 10 in 1", but I got tired of spending $25 at a whack on what is ultimately vanity. And, perhaps I should simply slow down, but what I'm really getting at is this -

I think of these guns as precision rifles. They're capable of real world hitting a 3-4" target at 300-400 yards, and we're using factory ammo. With handloads, we're likley under half a minute.

I can't imagine ever getting off 15-20 rounds fast in practice. Even with a pack of 50 pigs, they be scattered, smothered and covered by the time I got through a mag. And, if I'm shooting that many movers and my accuracy went from .6 MOA to 1.5 MOA - I'm pretty sure the pig hauling ass across the field would be a bigger problem than the groups opening up a bit. I don't see the benefit in chewing out the neck any faster.

If you're looking at this from a competition angle or you're fast roping into a terrorist compound, mea culpa - but beyond that
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Yep I hear ya, mostly just curious though. Also I thought the question about heat would come up given how much marketing was put out by Noveske using language such as, “Deep flute cooling, heat reduction/dispersion, thermal dampening, etc.” There’s a lot of technical jargon put out on these barrels that most of us, myself included, never give thought to, never needed to know, or is just plain not relevant to our uses.

Given the groups it was shooting I would have probably walked away thinking this rifle flat out shoots, period. Now I know that well, as long as the barrel isn’t too hot then yeah that’s mostly true despite what the Marketing literature might point to.

For my uses, hunting, paper punching, teaching the kids to shoot and instagram photos, this setup definitely ticks all those boxes. Is the DDF price tag worth it over the non DDF profile barrels or others??? Time will tell but maybe not.
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PortaJohn

Darryle
canman said:
Anything Hillary Clinton has a hand in is some kind of corruption. The Clintons and Bidens are the most corrupt people to ever be in the Gov't. Considering the absolute shit that has and does occupy Washington that's saying something. My opinion of course.
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After what we've seen from DOGE, Data republican, most corrupt is subjective, should be more corrupt than the average corrupt Democrat, which is saying something

I will agree that they are two of the most vile people in politics
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Ukraine war Bullshit.

Mr.BR
Mr.BR said:
I don't think they were able to recover or open up the vehicle as of now

​

Missing U.S. soldiers' vehicle found submerged more than 16 feet in peat bog as search goes on​

Rescuers in Lithuania were digging on Thursday into a peat bog in a military training area to recover the vehicle of four U.S. soldiers missing for two days.
The soldiers in the M88 Hercules armoured recovery vehicle were on an exercise at the Pabrade training ground near the Belarus border where U.S. units have been rotating since 2019.
Their vehicle was located on Wednesday at more than 5 metres down and enough water had now been drained from the swamp to begin digging for it, Defence Minister Dovile Sakaliene told reporters on Thursday morning after surveying the site.

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www.reuters.com
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https://www.cbsnews.com/world?ftag=CNM-16-10abg0d

U.S. Army says recovering 4 soldiers missing in Lithuania "will be a long and difficult" operation​

In a statement issued Friday, the U.S. Army said the hulking, 70-ton M88 Hercules armored recovery vehicle the missing U.S. soldiers had been operating "was found submerged approximately 15 feet under a body of water and mud in a boggy area" connected to a nearby lake.

"The area around the site is incredibly wet and marshy and doesn't support the weight of the equipment," the U.S. Army Europe and Africa's public affairs office said in a statement Friday. "Draining the area has been slow and difficult due to ground water seepage," it said.

"This will be a long and difficult recovery operation, but we are absolutely committed to bringing our soldiers home," said Curtis Taylor, Commanding General of the 1st Armored Division.


Unfortunatly looks like they will find 4 suffocated soldiers once they actually manage to get the vehicle out.
At present this is what it looks like .
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*I dont know obout these army engineers pouring sand and pumping out water ,but us bog living plebs would go out get bunch of logs and started piling these into the ground, wall of log pilars to dam this area of , so any excavation could actualy comence , drive more to reinforce ground if they need , in any case i would be seeing lots of logs............ but this statment about 30 tons of sand and water pumps sounds like absolute amateurs at work. I am certain miltary has some fancy temporary road way fo such conditions but till then logs would do.

Looking at the footage they would be better of with some local civilian contractors
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Noveske DDF Barrels

pangris
I got that, but my point is - there is allowing for a higher rate of fire with faster cooling, and then there is ballistic masturbation - feels good, accomplishes little.

I can appreciate checking out the claims of the manufacturer for a fancy new toy, I'm just trying to understand when you'd ever get real world scenarios that would lead to the results seen running 40 rounds through it "to get the barrel hot".

I was reminded of this thread because I hear someone dropping hammers fast in the distance...
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