SAC APS seater die?
- Thread starter Rhed
- Start date
We have one with all the bases they make. Total cost for that setup is somewhere around $850. Which isn't bad considering you can seat for virtually every cartridge ever made. Obviously it's much cheaper if you only need a base or two.
Once you understand how the die works, setup isn't very bad and can be done fairly quickly. However, you'll want to keep a dummy or loaded round handy. So you can set the die up very close use that, and then tweak it the last few thou.
The downside is also the setup. If you load for a variety of cartridges, you'll always be setting the die up. Unlike having a Wilson inline die for every cartridge that stays set up from the last time you used it.
We also use their modular seating dies. What we do is use the Infinity die with AMP press to make the first few rounds and make sure everything is looking how we want on the graph and such. We'll then switch over to either a normal arbor press and the infinity die, or the Zero Press and a modular seating die. Just depends on how much friction/force is needed to seat. We'll then use the Infinity die and AMP press every 10th round or so, which equates to a 10% spot check for QC.
The TLDR version:
The die is very nice and produces very concentric ammo. If you are already setup with a handful or more Wilson Inline Dies, you'll only want to buy this die if you just want something new or nice as you'll likely not make any better ammo.
However, if you're not already setup with Wilson dies and you don't mind adjusting the die for every different cartridge every time you change....then this die is very nice. It will also save you money if you would eventually have more than 4-5 Wilson dies.
Once you understand how the die works, setup isn't very bad and can be done fairly quickly. However, you'll want to keep a dummy or loaded round handy. So you can set the die up very close use that, and then tweak it the last few thou.
The downside is also the setup. If you load for a variety of cartridges, you'll always be setting the die up. Unlike having a Wilson inline die for every cartridge that stays set up from the last time you used it.
We also use their modular seating dies. What we do is use the Infinity die with AMP press to make the first few rounds and make sure everything is looking how we want on the graph and such. We'll then switch over to either a normal arbor press and the infinity die, or the Zero Press and a modular seating die. Just depends on how much friction/force is needed to seat. We'll then use the Infinity die and AMP press every 10th round or so, which equates to a 10% spot check for QC.
The TLDR version:
The die is very nice and produces very concentric ammo. If you are already setup with a handful or more Wilson Inline Dies, you'll only want to buy this die if you just want something new or nice as you'll likely not make any better ammo.
However, if you're not already setup with Wilson dies and you don't mind adjusting the die for every different cartridge every time you change....then this die is very nice. It will also save you money if you would eventually have more than 4-5 Wilson dies.
Thank you for that write up. Very well explained. I just started using SAC modular sizing dies a few months ago in .308. And I like that it keeps the neck concentric. For years, I’ve use other dies with bushings. And I struggle with concentricity at the neck. So I decided to try a SAC die, and it made a big improvement. Now, I’d want to get a set of the APS seater. But didn’t see too much reviews or real time users online. Now that I want one, I had to put notifications on to when in stock again.
No prob. It's going to be hard to find something SAC makes that isn't "worth it" overall. I tend to prefer either SAC or Area419 depending on the item. I prefer the shoulder inserts for powder funnel from SAC, but prefer the Measurement/Comparator set from 419. I use SAC for seating dies and 419 for sizing dies. Unless 419 doesn't make the died needed and then I'll use SAC.
Obviously you can make quality ammo with cheaper tools, but I find SAC and 419's ease of use and quality of life to be well worth it.
Good write-up by Rio P. Threaded seating dies (dies that thread into a rock checker type press) have come a long way from the old RCBS seater that I started with long ago. We have SAC, Bullet Central, and Redding making excellent threaded seaters. These seaters will produce concentric ammo as long as the brass neck is concentric to the case body. This is key. Most experienced BR and F-Class comp shooters, and precision shooters in general, will tell you that Concentricity is mostly determined my the case sizing operation and the quality of your sizing die.
The reason most competitive shooters go with an arbor die and arbor press is the ability of this system to indicate seating pressure. In-line arbor dies and arbor presses permit direct feedback to the reloader regarding seating pressure because their design makes them very sensitive to seating pressure changes from neck tension and friction. And most competitive shooters will tell you that neck tension/friction consistency is key to precision. if you want to go further, a K&M press with a pressure pack or a 21st Century Hydro press will give you quantitative results to compare seating pressure. The AMP press goes the extreme with all the pressure graphs. Many competitive shooters will use the arbor-type dies to separate loaded cartridges that they consider “outliers“ with excessive seating pressure or very low pressure. They may use these as fouling shots before shooting for record.
If you’re only concerned with concentricity then stick with the threaded dies.
The reason most competitive shooters go with an arbor die and arbor press is the ability of this system to indicate seating pressure. In-line arbor dies and arbor presses permit direct feedback to the reloader regarding seating pressure because their design makes them very sensitive to seating pressure changes from neck tension and friction. And most competitive shooters will tell you that neck tension/friction consistency is key to precision. if you want to go further, a K&M press with a pressure pack or a 21st Century Hydro press will give you quantitative results to compare seating pressure. The AMP press goes the extreme with all the pressure graphs. Many competitive shooters will use the arbor-type dies to separate loaded cartridges that they consider “outliers“ with excessive seating pressure or very low pressure. They may use these as fouling shots before shooting for record.
If you’re only concerned with concentricity then stick with the threaded dies.
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funny when you mention those overpriced equipement...
2 years ago EVERYBODY want to have AMP press and see those graphs to load ''better'' ammo. guess what happened? nobody understand those meaningless graphs and now everybody seat on a Dillon...
2 years ago EVERYBODY want to have CPL primer to seat primers to 0.001' accuratly. now everybody see that this is piece of shit and Lee primer seat primers more accuratly and all prime on a Dillon...
2 years ago EVERYBODY want ot have autodod neck turner, to turn their necks to load better ammo. now people dont turn necks anymore....
2 years ago EVERYBODY want ot have APM annlealer, to anneal ''better''. now people win matches with or withouth annealing or with old annealing process....
10 years ago EVERYBODY want to have special tools for measuring concentricity, now nobody cares because they dont shoot better with more concentric ammo...
see this pattern?
2 years ago EVERYBODY want to have AMP press and see those graphs to load ''better'' ammo. guess what happened? nobody understand those meaningless graphs and now everybody seat on a Dillon...
2 years ago EVERYBODY want to have CPL primer to seat primers to 0.001' accuratly. now everybody see that this is piece of shit and Lee primer seat primers more accuratly and all prime on a Dillon...
2 years ago EVERYBODY want ot have autodod neck turner, to turn their necks to load better ammo. now people dont turn necks anymore....
2 years ago EVERYBODY want ot have APM annlealer, to anneal ''better''. now people win matches with or withouth annealing or with old annealing process....
10 years ago EVERYBODY want to have special tools for measuring concentricity, now nobody cares because they dont shoot better with more concentric ammo...
see this pattern?
And a week ago you didn't think cleaning your brass helped keep your dies in good shape. Before that you told one of the ZCO owners that he didn't have a facility in Austria.
So yes, we see a pattern.
Also, there's a reason Ferrari exists when a Kia will get you from point A to point B. Not everyone wants to go through life using the cheapest things possible. Every IDOD, AMP Annealer, and AMP Press produced sells asap. So, your definition of "everybody" is akin do your definitions of clean and polished.
Dont forget: he also told bartlein how they should be making their barrels.
