Sidearms & Scatterguns Wanted: Opinions on later generation "HK vp9" & "CZ p10" model pistols
- Thread starter Milf Dots
- Start date
I have a glock 17 with about 40-50k rounds through it. It has one hell of a nice trigger from the wear in over the years. It started as state police service gun that was surplused. The best stock glock trigger i have ever felt.
Any VP9 will have a trigger that blows that one away. After getting a few VP9's years ago, i sold off the majority of my massive glock collection and switched to VP9 and VP9SK. Will still carry a G26 or G20 depending on where Im going, but the VP9 is the finest duty/ hard use handgun out there IMO. All the durrability and reliability of glocks (HK does not fuck around when making/testing guns) with much better ergonomics and trigger which for me, translated to being much much shootable. I ended up shooting a bunch of my glocks and vp9 side by side and it was quickly apparent which one was more accurate, easier to shoot and faster. Much less recoil and muzzle flip with faster follow up shots.
I have converted over a dozen people to VP9s over the years. Shoot them side by side and the debate will be over. If you do buy one make sure its optics ready. They are still selling alot of non optics ready for the same price and that will really limit you going forward.
Any VP9 will have a trigger that blows that one away. After getting a few VP9's years ago, i sold off the majority of my massive glock collection and switched to VP9 and VP9SK. Will still carry a G26 or G20 depending on where Im going, but the VP9 is the finest duty/ hard use handgun out there IMO. All the durrability and reliability of glocks (HK does not fuck around when making/testing guns) with much better ergonomics and trigger which for me, translated to being much much shootable. I ended up shooting a bunch of my glocks and vp9 side by side and it was quickly apparent which one was more accurate, easier to shoot and faster. Much less recoil and muzzle flip with faster follow up shots.
I have converted over a dozen people to VP9s over the years. Shoot them side by side and the debate will be over. If you do buy one make sure its optics ready. They are still selling alot of non optics ready for the same price and that will really limit you going forward.
CZ p10 is a great pistol as well.
I don’t have 1000’s of rounds through the P10 but do other CZ’s.
The trigger on the P10 is one of the best factory striker fired guns and you can find them for under $400.
Watch PSA. I bought my P10 for $350 shipped. For that price it’s a steal.
I don’t have 1000’s of rounds through the P10 but do other CZ’s.
The trigger on the P10 is one of the best factory striker fired guns and you can find them for under $400.
Watch PSA. I bought my P10 for $350 shipped. For that price it’s a steal.
Yes. Likely over 20 thousand by now between two P-10Fs
100% reliable. Any malfunctions have been my shit reloads. Nothing has broken.
Compared to a Glock Gen 3 (which I also own two)
Pros
- A grip design that fits my hand much better and is easier to get a repeatable grip from the holster.
- A much better magazine release button
- A thinner slide, frame, and grip, making concealed carry easier and more comfortable.
- A frame design that doesn't make my middle finger knuckle feel like it got smashed by a hammer after 100 rounds.
- Much better sights
- Dramatically better (as in one of the best in the industry) optic mounting plate design and slide interface.
- Dramatically better OEM trigger
- Spare parts not as easy to find.
- The frame's plastic is a little more difficult/finicky to stipple.
I've considered getting into either the Walther PDP or the HK VP9 but after renting both of them neither does anything substantially better than the P-10 system, for which I already have several holsters, a competition belt rig, spare parts, a shitload of magazines, and a manufacturer's armorer's manual.
The P-10 family is heavily discounted right now. CZ's CEO has stated that a new generation of P-10 is coming but that the current generation will still be supported. You can buy two optics-ready P-10s for just a little more than the price of a VP-9. Or said another way, an optics ready P-10, four extra magazines (for a total of six) and one or two holsters for the price of a VP-9 alone.
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My wife has a newer VP9 with optic, it runs great. She hated the Glock 19 she tried but loves the ergonomics of the VP9. It eats everything we tried in it except the Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman HCFN. They choked it so we swapped out to 124 xtps for woods carry. It really likes the Underwood 124 +p+ loading. Will shoot those 1.5" at 20 yards
Deal breaker for me now. I'm done sending out slides to get butchered for optics.
I own a CZ p10c and bought my GF a VP9, both optics ready models and purchased last year.
Reliability:
P10c-It has been 100% over the last 4000 rounds. Optics plate has held on well. Used for various local matches.
VP9-I have put probably 600 rounds through it and GF probably has another 2500. Began having intermittent FtF at around 1500 rounds for no particular reason. Seems to have disappeared after thorough barrel cleaning.
Trigger-The HK is fine, but I feel the CZ is significantly better. It has a more defined breaking point compared to the HK's mushier break. The CZ reset is much shorter than the VP9. Either are plenty acceptable.
The "feels"- I personally prefer the P10c's more aggressive texture and simple grip profile, but thats just personal preference. GF likes the VP9 ergos. The Vp9 has nicer coatings and has a more premium feel of materials. Both had nice factory sights, the CZ came with tritium. The P10c has been rained on a decent amount and hasn't rusted, so I guess the coating/finish is good enough (my 2011 can't claim that).
I bought the VP9 OR for something between 700 and 800 with 5 mags, the P10c OR was around 350 shipped with 3 mags from Palmetto state. Not considering price, I prefer the P10c to the VP9.
Reliability:
P10c-It has been 100% over the last 4000 rounds. Optics plate has held on well. Used for various local matches.
VP9-I have put probably 600 rounds through it and GF probably has another 2500. Began having intermittent FtF at around 1500 rounds for no particular reason. Seems to have disappeared after thorough barrel cleaning.
Trigger-The HK is fine, but I feel the CZ is significantly better. It has a more defined breaking point compared to the HK's mushier break. The CZ reset is much shorter than the VP9. Either are plenty acceptable.
The "feels"- I personally prefer the P10c's more aggressive texture and simple grip profile, but thats just personal preference. GF likes the VP9 ergos. The Vp9 has nicer coatings and has a more premium feel of materials. Both had nice factory sights, the CZ came with tritium. The P10c has been rained on a decent amount and hasn't rusted, so I guess the coating/finish is good enough (my 2011 can't claim that).
I bought the VP9 OR for something between 700 and 800 with 5 mags, the P10c OR was around 350 shipped with 3 mags from Palmetto state. Not considering price, I prefer the P10c to the VP9.
I had a P-10C when it was first released and loved it... except the magazine drop button was incredibly stiff. To the tune on both difficult to engage and also ripped up my thumb. It wasn't something that got any better with usage and it made shooting the gun unpleasant. I traded it in.
Shortly after, I read that was fixed but I had already physically and psychologically divested from it.
A few months ago I shot a friend's P-10 and while it might not have been as bad, it was still very stiff.
Otherwise, I find the ergonomics, feel, trigger, etc really nice, and wish I hadn't had the issue bc I enjoyed shooting the pistol.
Shortly after, I read that was fixed but I had already physically and psychologically divested from it.
A few months ago I shot a friend's P-10 and while it might not have been as bad, it was still very stiff.
Otherwise, I find the ergonomics, feel, trigger, etc really nice, and wish I hadn't had the issue bc I enjoyed shooting the pistol.
I have an earlier model but I have a vp9t that's around 54k on it. Boringly reliable. Several parts are well past their service date but it keeps running like a raped ape so I keep not replacing internals.
Pretty much this. I have a G19 and a VP9. For a minute, I had a P10C but sold it because it was just like the Glock.
The VP9 is a nice pistol and I would choose it over the other two any day. They are all good pistols, I just find the VP9 to be more comfortable and like the paddle release. 1K rounds through it without a failure.
I carry the older brother, a P30, and it has north of 20K rounds with one failure due to bad ammo, and a broken trigger return spring which was a 5 minute fix.
I don't count rounds but if I had to guess, I probably have 2500ish on my VP9T with PMM comp. I shoot 124gr out of it and I've never had an issue that I didn't induce on my own. Ran it through a 2-day long run and gun over the weekend and through dirt, rain and eventually mud - I never had a reliability issue out of it.
The guys that have been running these events for years said they see constant issues from guys using hammer fired handguns on these courses. They're just too dirty and introduce too much debris into the holster area during some of the obstacles for hammer fired guns to chew through. I think they were mostly commenting on the tight-fitting 2011's and Shadow 2's but being the FNG I didn't stop the flow of conversation to ask them to elaborate.
The guys that have been running these events for years said they see constant issues from guys using hammer fired handguns on these courses. They're just too dirty and introduce too much debris into the holster area during some of the obstacles for hammer fired guns to chew through. I think they were mostly commenting on the tight-fitting 2011's and Shadow 2's but being the FNG I didn't stop the flow of conversation to ask them to elaborate.
I own both and have run both in USPSA matches. I chose to buy 2 more P10's. They have run flawlessly and are cheap and easy to mod. Mags can be had for a very reasonable price. I run optics on 2 of my P10's. I use plates from Www.thecncpros.com. they have been rock solid. The VP9 has been nothing but disappointment for me. Parts are/were expensive and the gun has been troublesome. It is finicky with ammo as well.
I stopped caring about most of the foreign pistol designs when they all started dropping the paddle mag releases from their lineups.
Superior to a button yet everyone wants a damn button. Ugh. And yes I know, HK still sells a few models that have it. But Walther stopped and HK has sort of been attempting to switch too.
Superior to a button yet everyone wants a damn button. Ugh. And yes I know, HK still sells a few models that have it. But Walther stopped and HK has sort of been attempting to switch too.
I can't help it. I had an HK45C for awhile and got addicted to the paddle. I wish Walther still had them for the PDP. Only option is to get one of the HK models that still use it.
No slower than button. Faster actually since I seem to have issues hitting the button on some of the more common designs without breaking my grip. With the paddle I can simply tap it with my shooting finger, slam the new mag home and be right back on.
Ergonomically I think it's superior.
Haven't done it on a timer. Would also not be a fair test unless they were identical firearms minus mag release.
Either way
Not breaking grip > millisecond faster mag change
Either way
Not breaking grip > millisecond faster mag change
One would think so but again thats not how it works.
The grip is re-established while reaching for the new magazine.
You save 0 seconds.
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If it were faster competition shooters would be clamoring for paddle releases, but they aren’t.
Similarly, I’d wager there’s a lot more P10s doing work competitively than VP9s. That’s not the most important metric in the world, but it’s certainly not nothing.
Being a competitor myself I wanted to avoid saying that but................yes, nobody in the space where speed and efficiency matter so much cares about paddle mag releases.
Back to the main point, the P-10's grip isn't very long front to back with the medium or small backstraps. With either one I can reach the mag release without breaking grip, and my hands are at best medium sized (med men's gloves are a tad big on me).
ETA: I just checked my P-10F with the large backstrap and the reach to the mag release is minimally affected. It's really a non-issue on most pistols. The biggest offender are Gen 3 Glocks and there are plenty of aftermarket fixes for that.
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I have heard the "doesn't make you break your grip" argument so many times, but honestly don't know where it originated. I just went and played with both my USP9, VP9, and P10c. I can release a mag with no grip shift on the stock P10c button, minor grip shift for the paddle on the USP, and have to significantly break grip to reach the VP9 paddle (almost uncomfortably so). I gave the VP9 to GF and she too had to break grip to reach the paddle with her trigger finger.
The paddle release works, but its not some kind of gamechanger. If anything its slightly worse, unless its crazy large.
The paddle release works, but its not some kind of gamechanger. If anything its slightly worse, unless its crazy large.
That would be a plus for me. I'm the opposite, I really dislike triggers with a hard wall.
The mag release on the first gen P-10 (ambidextrous) was really stiff and stayed that way.
The current version (since like 5 years ago) has a reversible mag release which is much easier to use when new and breaks in very quickly.
Vp9 has high bore axis, weird muzzle flip (read). Frame has panels replaceable for hand size but texture is weak. It has one of the best triggers in the market makes less experienced shooters feel it is the most accurate hand gun they ever picked. I dont know if they still want you to break in the gun with 124gr like when they were first released.
P10C has a lower bore axis, very ergonomic grip with almost too aggressive grip texture for gentle hands. It has a very good trigger right off the bat. It is less expensive than the vp9, and although hk built quality feels better in hand, the CZ will run thousands of rounds.
Either one will serve as any other polymer gun. I owned both; didnt care about the vp9 much. Still have my CZ P10C since they first released. My carry is a glock 19 with aimpoint p2, oem performance trigger and stipple by yours truly. I have a couple back up ones as well.
The new Walther pdps offer a lot more to never-glock buyers looking over vp9s.
Now; if we are speaking USPs that is a different tone from me
P10C has a lower bore axis, very ergonomic grip with almost too aggressive grip texture for gentle hands. It has a very good trigger right off the bat. It is less expensive than the vp9, and although hk built quality feels better in hand, the CZ will run thousands of rounds.
Either one will serve as any other polymer gun. I owned both; didnt care about the vp9 much. Still have my CZ P10C since they first released. My carry is a glock 19 with aimpoint p2, oem performance trigger and stipple by yours truly. I have a couple back up ones as well.
The new Walther pdps offer a lot more to never-glock buyers looking over vp9s.
Now; if we are speaking USPs that is a different tone from me
Very well stated.
The VP9 series is rock solid.
I have a VP9sk that am always amazed at how accurate it is at speed. Carries easy and performs exceptionally well.
Comfortable ccw and highly shootable. Highround count sessions are a piece of cake.
Mags go on sale often, too.
That's you, not the gun. SIG P320 has a hell of a high bore axis and it's one of the most popular guns in USPSA
I have to agree with you. I have small hands and most of that is all palm, so I've got short fingers. It's easier for me to rotate the gun counter clockwise in my hand and hit that paddle with my index finger than it is for me to push a button with my thumb. I have to rotate the gun a lot further in my hand to get the leverage needed to reliably yeet a mag out with a button. The lever just feels faster and more natural to me. I own guns with both, but I'm a lot more confident with my VP9 mag changes than with anything else.
I can hit the paddle on any gun I've tried it with without breaking my grip. Only a few button release guns do I not need to rotate the gun in my hand to hit the button. I mean I can do it mechanically without thinking about it and get back on target but I don't find it ideal.
I can do it without rotating the grip, but I still rotate a little to give myself the best mechanical advantage. Instead of swiping it with the pad of the finger I can push it straight down with the tip of my finger.
I used a VP9 to put down a horse last night. Totally reliable 
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