really good info. to me seems 2 areas of need. 1) short term power outage from hurricanes here in FL. not common in no.cent. but has happened. 2) SHTF outage where long term survival is the issue. short term loss makes things very uncomfortable but not life threatening. some temporary loss can be very long. andrew had power out in miami for months in some places. so,a mix of both there. things to run would be water and refrig until food ran out. have maybe 6 mos food not refrigerated stuff. cooking and cleaning/hygiene are the other 2 biggies IMHO. thus looks like solar would be a best bet for me. fuel will disappear quickly here. winter not an issue here. lowest ever has been 18 deg 2-3 days. survivable with a lot of blankets. question of gen noise bringing unwanted attention like smoke from small cookfires maybe. ideas,input?
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Backup generators - I've used them for decades. My take..
- Thread starter eastexsteve
- Start date
For true SHTF scenario...
I'd be looking at being able to subsist off the land. Everyone else will be, too, so there will be LOTS of competition. Planning to be able to hunt is ok for maybe a year or two. After that, most wild things edible will have been et. Generator is a no go because there won't be fuel. of course, you COULD be making your own fuel as wood gas. If you have wood. And a bunch of it.
The sun is gonna be shining even after the nukes go off. Sure, nuclear winter and shit....think you can survive that? I mean, I'd like to think I could and would try but in reality, probably not. Otherwise, solar is the way to go and it has become far more reliable than even 10 years ago. If you are also judicious in your choices of appliances, solar really becomes attractive.
Solar doesn't have to be all about converting invisible rays into electricity. You can definitely heat your quarters, especially in FL, even in the winter and even on cloudy days. You can keep your pool warm and your hot tub hot.
Add in things like earth tubes...basically earth buried pipes to carry air. The earth is a real constant temperature just a few feet down about 65 degrees. That's a nice, cool temp in the summer and just a sweater for the winter. Or the heater isn't working too hard to get you to 70. Humidity is the killer. Gotta get the air dried and be able to handle the condensation...water your marijuana with it and shit.
Close friend I know built a green house that way. Dug a deep hole, buried a bunch of tubes. Air is pumped through them. Humidity is a challenge. Has avacados and citrus type stuff growing in there, it is above 3,000’ elevation in Idaho. He has to add some propane heat in winter, but not a lot. it also gets at or near zero in winter.
Some native people in some areas of the world have done pit houses, cool in summer, not freezing in winter.
Some interesting ways people have survived.
I have a Generac 22kw, running on natural gas. It handles my house with a 4 ton A/C, two refrigerators and two deep freezes and lights, etc., without issue. It won't do much good in SHTF scenario, but I can't afford a 10,000 gallon tank full of diesel. Even that would run out, eventually. Best prep for SHTF is to learn how to function with minimum, or no electricity.
As you cross the N Fork of the Clearwater River from Headquarters on CR 247, just to your left are a series of pits that were used as housing in the bygone. That's also a pretty damned good place to catch fish. Coincidence?
Leave Lewiston for Eagle Creek into the Salmon River. Near the confluence, downstream from where you drive in, are more pit houses. Again, pretty damned good place to fish.
All up the Hells Canyon are remnants of a simpler but much more harsh life. Existence can be cruel. But there are also great examples of mans ingenuity and ways to adapt, improvise and overcome.
Same for the Bruneau. Steep, deep, brutally rugged and desolate and yet man thrived there.
Such examples are found all over the earth. I've seen stuff from Alaska's Arctic to Arizona's desert to the Mississippi Delta to Turkey to Greece to Okinawa. Fuck California but even there.
The situation we are in was not planned and we are adapting as we can. Hopefully the actual plan can implemented prior to death.
i have been trying to figure an underground storage system. mostly for meds actually. us old farts are on some and a stockpile of antibiotics,at least,is something i think will be important for many reasons. yes,all edible game gone in 6 mos-a lot of tuned in hunters in my county way ahead of me at the game. will try to learn about affordable (LOL) solar. like i said,water to drink and hygiene are the biggie. example: keeping cooking stuff clean,esp pots/pans,to avoid food poisoning from contamination will matter. disposables will run out at some point.
Underground is truly where it is. I want to build a dwelling that is primarily under 4 feet of earth but open to Riot Glass on the south face. With this arrangement, I should never have to actually use AC except as a dehumidifier. I should also never have to use anything other than the thermal mass to heat with but I have a woodstove in the plan. The Riot Glass will allow me to sip a mohito as the tornado rips through..or watch the horde as they die slowly outside. If you can build this way and also have your well cap inside your house, plan for some greenhousing inside, shooting lanes to protect your solar farm...you should be able to live very comfortably forever. I'm not saying that you are inside a bunker and never leave but you should be very very secure in your dwelling, water and food sources and be able to choose when to go out and harvest the eggs or cull a rooster or a steer.
You can even use the sun to make ice...no electricity needed at all.
I could change my last name. I mean, if you wanted a son older than you, I could.
Good article. I bought a Troy-Bilt 7000/6250 genset maybe a decade ago, and had a genset outlet and a secondary breaker box plus a utility intertie switch put on the main breaker box. When I switch off the mains and switch on the genset circuit, I can run the whole house (3400 sqft with a heat pump, gas oven and dryer, can switch to gas for heat in 'emergency' mode) as long as we use some common sense and don't try to run everything at once. I run UPSs on my electronics and haven't had a problem.
I bought the genset after suffering through a 5-day power outage in the winter back in 2007 (at another house within a mile of my current residence)... my wife and then-young son went to stay at her sister's but I didn't want to leave the house unoccupied. That was 5 days of breaking out my hunting clothes and my military surplus down bag. The fireplace in the living room was USELESS... the house got into the low 40s. It sucked.
I've had to use the genset a couple of times, once for a 2-day outage. I ran it intermittently (for four-hour intervals when we're home) and it did fine, keeping the house warm, letting us wash and dry a load of clothes, use the microwave and the oven, run the fridge, watch TV and use the Internet, charge our devices, etc. It has a 7-gal (?) tank and I also have a 5-gal jerry can for spare fuel. I run it on pure gas (no ethanol) treated with Seafoam (as with all of my powersports motors), and haven't had a problem with it. Every year or two I'll drain the gas into fuel cans and dump it in my wife's Ford Escape, and put new gas into it. I start it up a couple times a year, put the factory-supplied wall wart battery charger on it a couple times a year, and haven't had a problem with it.
We have natural gas running to the house, and I've thought of having an outlet/connection installed next to the gas meter just outside the garage, where I run the genset, so I could run it off natural gas after starting it and warming it up on gasoline. That would be great for extended power outages, eliminating the need to run to the gas station every couple of days to get gas. But, for outages of no more than 48 hours it's great.
I also have a mil-surp HMMWV, a 2003 M1097A2 with the 400A 24V generator. Getting a 5KW/240V inverter and equipping it to run from a 24V NATO slave cable would give me another backup source of power... and a 20 gal diesel fuel tank would likely run for several days if used intermittently.
I bought the genset after suffering through a 5-day power outage in the winter back in 2007 (at another house within a mile of my current residence)... my wife and then-young son went to stay at her sister's but I didn't want to leave the house unoccupied. That was 5 days of breaking out my hunting clothes and my military surplus down bag. The fireplace in the living room was USELESS... the house got into the low 40s. It sucked.
I've had to use the genset a couple of times, once for a 2-day outage. I ran it intermittently (for four-hour intervals when we're home) and it did fine, keeping the house warm, letting us wash and dry a load of clothes, use the microwave and the oven, run the fridge, watch TV and use the Internet, charge our devices, etc. It has a 7-gal (?) tank and I also have a 5-gal jerry can for spare fuel. I run it on pure gas (no ethanol) treated with Seafoam (as with all of my powersports motors), and haven't had a problem with it. Every year or two I'll drain the gas into fuel cans and dump it in my wife's Ford Escape, and put new gas into it. I start it up a couple times a year, put the factory-supplied wall wart battery charger on it a couple times a year, and haven't had a problem with it.
We have natural gas running to the house, and I've thought of having an outlet/connection installed next to the gas meter just outside the garage, where I run the genset, so I could run it off natural gas after starting it and warming it up on gasoline. That would be great for extended power outages, eliminating the need to run to the gas station every couple of days to get gas. But, for outages of no more than 48 hours it's great.
I also have a mil-surp HMMWV, a 2003 M1097A2 with the 400A 24V generator. Getting a 5KW/240V inverter and equipping it to run from a 24V NATO slave cable would give me another backup source of power... and a 20 gal diesel fuel tank would likely run for several days if used intermittently.
Same setup here. We lose power quite a bit since my power line is on the longest run in the county and it goes through the woods and my generac has me covered 100%. We had a 5 day outage with -20 degree lows and it ran all five days and i still had 80% of my propane tank full. Figure i can run a month on mine without issues.
Got a Ecoflow Delta Pro Ultra to run my garage and be a backup to the generac if needed.
They have propane tanks that can be buried and no one will ever know , if you can get a refill bob tail truck close enough to run his hose to tank dome lid that's ground level. Might be a option.As I've said on several threads here, I have a Westinghouse Wgen9500DF. It will handle the HVAC and have a bit left over to spare. I wish I could get a full house generator like a Kohler, but the problem with that is there is no available fuel source. We don't have a natural gas pipeline, nor do I have a large propane tank (nor could I get one installed - HOA rules).
Light discipline, if outage goes extended. No reason to advertise is all.
I can't do much regarding noise (considering some ideas tho), however it is reasonably quiet given the size. Neighbors know/can hear it. Not the whole neighbourhood tho.
Our neighborhood is up in hills. So without light discipline, could draw scumbags from quit a ways away.
That is called baiting and might be illegal in some jurisdictions.
Wood gas for the spark ignited. Mineral oil from utility transformers mixed 50/50 with diesel will extend that fuel supply. In a pinch you can run a diesel engine on a mix of gasoline & filtered new/used engine oil, or automatic transmission fluid. Do Not use hyd oil!
A good prime mover in a SHTF is an old Multi fuel engine, any liquid that will burn will keep her turning. Your best bet across the board is steam, plus the boiler will also run on the body fat of liberals.
A good prime mover in a SHTF is an old Multi fuel engine, any liquid that will burn will keep her turning. Your best bet across the board is steam, plus the boiler will also run on the body fat of liberals.
Trust me, they *will* know. They have spies all over the neighborhood. And there are all kinds of county ordinances that must be followed when installing one underground. Permits required, posts to mark the placing of it, etc. etc. And if that's not enough, the HOA has the right to enter onto your property to inspect it for violations of community guidelines. I don't know that they have, in the almost 8 years I've been here, but they reserve the right to. At least, on the outside.
It might be possible logistically (i.e. the "Suburban Propane" truck could reach it) but, as stated above, the HOA would never allow it. And, especially when you're talking about a "haz mat" that could result in 3-5 homes going up in flames if it were ever to go off?
And I'd love to have that option, but it's not available in my community. We're an "All Electric" community here (HVAC, cooking, etc.). I think there may be one house that was "grandfathered" a propane tank for a gas oven, but it's the only one I know of in a community of over 700 houses.
N/G is what powers my 25kw but when I built it I made sure to make it tri fuel. Just a flip of a switch and she is pulling from two 250gallon LP tanks, or she can be ran on gasoline as well. Absolute back up is woodgas. The gasifier I built will power my F350 down to a small rope start, just by changing the hearth plate & throttling the air jets. I also added a 1" port to pull gas off via a compressor to pressurize tanks to store for cooking ect as the wood gas will fuel anything that is N/G capable.
That's the problem rite there. HOA.
Not bagging on you @Fx51LP308, and am aware that HOA's are just about "mandatory" in some parts of the country.
Just pointing out such for any younger folks considering buying property. HOA = don't buy it. My folks retired to South Carolina, so pretty much HOA anywhere they wanted to live. Built 2 in HOA communities (built 1, lived there. Built another sold first) then bought a ?10 YO Townhouse w/HOA.
No HOA problems 1st community, other than a touch of newly retired "crazy". 2nd community, heavy HOA drama including "ticket police"-crazy Kens & Karens. Townhouse zero HOA drama, but being a smaller building fees became a bit cookoo.
So nope, no HOA for us. Ever.
I'd live in a tent in the woods before allowing a group of Gucci loving fucks, telling me what I can & can't do on my property.
That's the big risk/reward assessment one has to make when purchasing property, here in Florida. There are properties that are not "deed restricted" (ie. not under control of an HOA), but they're usually way out in the "sticks." There's no services, no utilities (except for electric, maybe), and no nearby shopping, no hospitals, or other medical centers. Nothing. One would have to travel very far to get to them. OTOH, the areas that do have all those things/services nearby are, more than likely, totally deed restricted and have HOAs managing the developments. Any property that is a "sub division" would have an HOA.
Pick yer poison!
That's the idea. Learn to live off the land. Although I started this thread about backup generators, we live on a 160 acre farm. This year, we concentrated on learning to grow as much produce on as little area as possible, so we can keep it all close to the house so we can watch it. I may start another thread on what we learned about doing this.
And yes, you can hunt and fish out the local game population around you. We have a lot of wild game on our place today, but there was a time that the poachers were so bad in this county that you rarely saw a deer track.
Well, I feel sorry for you, but much better about my living situation. That’s a rough way to live.
We're the last house on the powerline. Anything happens anywhere, and we lose power.
So, we have a 16kw Generac that kicks on in 10 seconds. It runs everything, ac, Jacuzzi.... We don't miss a beat, and have lived on it for several days, multiple times.
A few years ago we got a lot of rain, pretty much non-stop for about 2 months. Then within a few hours, 4 dams in the area failed. I think we lived on it for 10 days that time.
So, we have a 16kw Generac that kicks on in 10 seconds. It runs everything, ac, Jacuzzi.... We don't miss a beat, and have lived on it for several days, multiple times.
A few years ago we got a lot of rain, pretty much non-stop for about 2 months. Then within a few hours, 4 dams in the area failed. I think we lived on it for 10 days that time.
It's not so much the local thugs you need to worry about. It will be the government coming to take that generator, and anything else you have that they think they need for the "good of the people." In an "emergency" FEMA can come and take anything of yours they want.
Inverters are expensive. Pure sine wave is hard to make electronically, which is why there are tons of cheap small ones with square wave inverters.
You get a nice sine wave with a spinning generator. You just need a good voltage regulator and speed governor to keep it at 1800 or 3600rpm for a consistent 60hz.
Your neighbor most likely had something done wrong in his wiring, or the generator was so lightly loaded it wasn't regulating properly. I've seen them do goofy things when they're designed for 120kw and you're pulling 1kw.
You do want to be loaded 60%+ with a diesel to make it work a little.
If you look at the wave form on most small stuff with a quality O-scope that operates at 100 meg plus, (3 MFG's that come to mind) you will not like what you see, nor will some stuff you plug into them.
