Europe Regularly Supplies Ukraine With Outdated & Defective Weapons | ZeroHedge
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Ukraine war Bullshit.
- Thread starter JAS-SH
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Boogieman!!!! Boogieman!!!
Meanwhile, the USA has bases and biolabs all around the Russian border.
If Russia/China had been building bases and running joint operations with South American countries and slowing expanding into central America and Canada what would the response be when they finally moved into Mexico?
How about we cancel NATO and bring everyone home and leave all the equipment in place for the host countries to have. They can buy as much as they want and come here for training. There's no reason for us to have troops in every country on the planet. Well, except we're there to keep Putin from expanding.
There are no Imperial ambitions or Russia talking over Europe etc , Sometimes its amazing on how phony narrative can be - Russia is about to colapse , Russian army is about to march across Europe to Paris to get some Kebab there.
I fully agree Russia should not have gone into Ukraine in 2022 ,but it was outright goaded into it. Billions were invested into no less than 3 regime changes in Ukraine on third one they finaly got it done with a bloody nudge by snipers shooting up protesters and police . Prospect of Ukraine joining NATO would have triggered a war no matter who was the president in Russia. Kinda like China setting up bases in Mexico or Canada.
I fully agree Russia should not have gone into Ukraine in 2022 ,but it was outright goaded into it. Billions were invested into no less than 3 regime changes in Ukraine on third one they finaly got it done with a bloody nudge by snipers shooting up protesters and police . Prospect of Ukraine joining NATO would have triggered a war no matter who was the president in Russia. Kinda like China setting up bases in Mexico or Canada.
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The problem now is that Putin is using the peace talks focus that Trump is steering as an opportunity for him to try to take ground. That’s a really bad faith and stupid move with Trump. Putin can’t afford to have the war negotiated into a peace with Trump as the arbiter, so he would prefer the war continued so he doesn’t lose face to the Russian people.
The US negotiated the denuclearization of Ukraine under Nunn-Lugar in the 1990s with the Clinton WH and Yeltsin, with the understanding that Russia would remain non-aggressive, and the US and UK would help protect Ukraine as it moved into a free society with self-determination. Putin then launched a series of political manipulations to attempt to control Ukraine with puppets, with varying degrees of failure and success up through Yanukovych.
It isn’t about Putin-bad, or simpleton mindsets like that. Putin is doing what he thinks is best for Russia because Russian geostrategic policy has been the mandate that they control Ukraine. Russia doesn’t want a successful, independent, prosperous Ukraine with all of its resources and access to the the trade routes outside of Russian control.
Ukraine doesn’t want to be under the Russian boot, artificially depressing their economy and manipulating their government and industries with Russian front companies, pilfering their wealth.
Since Putin has chosen to escalate, and Trump does not want more war, one of the things Trump could do is bring in a non-NATO partner who isn’t European and annihilate Russia’s forces in all of the lines of contest, send Russian forces back to 2014 status, and then tell Putin the bombing and Russian Air Force eradication will stop once he comes to the peace table under Trump’s terms.
Putin has played his hand, and now has to suffer the consequences, like he did in Syria when he made the stupid move of sending a Wagner-led battle group to attack a tiny contingent of US SOF at the Conoco plant near Khasham.
He found out what Trump was made of, but this event is never covered by any of the corporate press for some reason.
There are several US partner nations who are not part of NATO, who are far away from any sphere of influence from Russia, who have combat power like no other Nation but the US. They have been talking big about wanting to stop Russia as well, without sending their weapons, so now is their chance to bring the conflict to an end without a single NATO partner committing personnel to the fight.
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The Kiev snipers and protestors were false flags. Notice how the violent protestors were all masked-up, just like ANTIFA?
Putin’s SVR and GRU had the false flag ANTIFAgs engage in violent demonstrations against the Ukraine police and security forces to try to get the Police to fire on the ANTIFAgs, but it wasn’t working. Remember that Euromaiden was a massive peaceful protest against Putin puppet, Yanukovych, who violated the 79% majority of Ukraine wanting to trade with EU.
Putin did everything possible to sabotage the peaceful protest movement by unleashing ANTIFAgs against the police, then when he didn’t get the responses he wanted, he instigated the fratricide with covert sniper fire, which targeted both the ANTIFAgs and Ukrainian police, resulting in the Ukrainian police and ANTIFAG shooters firing against each other.
This is unconventional warfare 101, very typical of Soviet and Communist takeovers or attempted takeovers, usually coordinated with annexation of territory in the targeted nation. That’s exactly what Putin did.
Westerners who can’t even find Kiev vs Lviv on a map, let alone recite history of the region, watch snippet social media posts and thing they are now well-informed.
The idea of brilliant Chinese long-term thinking is forced to look in the mirror of the One Child policy, where they murdered at least 100 million female infants, and an unknown number of males. This triggered demographic collapse and an aging society that crushes the working-age population from above and beneath.
We’re also talking about a society that can only really exert its foreign power primarily through bribes. Their military exercises are dog and pony shows with perfectly-clean uniforms, infantry marching in regimented columns, carriers with sailors standing on deck in formation, and vanity displays with no actual war-gaming and OPFOR that can critique seniors.
Imagine sitting in on a ChiCom AAR. Not even the French allow US-style AARs, and the French are far more versed in modern military systems employment than the Chinese.
There won’t be a Democrat WH anytime in the near future either, and I don’t think the party itself survives as a viable political entity into the future. Even in the Democrat Party’s own stated 16 priorities, foreign policy doesn’t even get a mention. All this saber-rattling from historically-weak anti-military Dems is comical to watch, and entirely partisan-based.
One of the ways you can see how militarily-retarded Russia thinks is their emphasis on tanks and artillery.
How did that work out for them at the Battle of Khasham? They had tons of tanks, artillery, engineers vs a tiny contingent of SOF with Radio comms to CENTCOM Air assets.
If you want a very quick and dirty summary of how Russian forces fare against a small contingent of US expeditionary forces, it basically was like curb-checking a retard for 6 hours. This is how Trump checked Putin’s mongoloid-level strategy and missteps:
How did that work out for them at the Battle of Khasham? They had tons of tanks, artillery, engineers vs a tiny contingent of SOF with Radio comms to CENTCOM Air assets.
If you want a very quick and dirty summary of how Russian forces fare against a small contingent of US expeditionary forces, it basically was like curb-checking a retard for 6 hours. This is how Trump checked Putin’s mongoloid-level strategy and missteps:
One of the things you’ll notice about that skirmish was that Putin did authorize the Russian VKS (expeditionary Air Force) based out of Khmeimim Air Base in Syria, to launch Su-30s and Su-34s in support of the Wagner-led Battle Group.
Russian SVR and GRU also have plane-spotters placed all over the region to watch what types of US and coalition aircraft are taking off. There is a very high probability that they were aware of USAF F-22As providing Defense Counter-Air to the fighters and aircraft that were curb-checking the retard Wagner mercenaries for sport for 6 hours, so those Flankers kept their distance, otherwise they would have been turned into flaming scrap metal, like every other Russian fighter when it faces US fighters in the last 46 years.
It would have been even more humiliating for them to have had their careless pilots accidentally crash left and right, with no evidence of why.
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Russian SVR and GRU also have plane-spotters placed all over the region to watch what types of US and coalition aircraft are taking off. There is a very high probability that they were aware of USAF F-22As providing Defense Counter-Air to the fighters and aircraft that were curb-checking the retard Wagner mercenaries for sport for 6 hours, so those Flankers kept their distance, otherwise they would have been turned into flaming scrap metal, like every other Russian fighter when it faces US fighters in the last 46 years.
It would have been even more humiliating for them to have had their careless pilots accidentally crash left and right, with no evidence of why.
Europe is a baby that will never grow up unless we cut off its allowance.
I used to try to find justifications for our involvement in their Ukraine mess. I gave up. All I saw were rationalizations that all seemed to trace back to TDS.
No, Putin is not going to take over Europe. He never planned to. He can't even beat Ukraine. He is not a moron. Maybe he'll get a couple of tiny countries Americans don't need. Let Europeans handle it for once.
No, Ukraine is not our ally. Not really. It has always been pretty hostile. Now its corrupt government wants our arms and money to fight another corrupt government. Suddenly, we are BFF's? Come on. Look at the past.
No, we don't have to buy rare earths from Ukraine's current comedian-headed regime in order to fix a crisis.
1. There is no crisis. Rare earths are not rare, and while China has a whole lot, we can get them elsewhere. We have a lot right here.
2. Even if we had all the rare earths on Earth, we would still have to send them to China for refining, because good luck building a refining facility in America. We can't compete with China's prices, and the greenies will glue themselves to highways until we give up.
3. Whoever rules Ukraine when the war ends will sell us rare earths. Putin has already said he would do it. He sells gas and oil to his enemies every day.
No, we don't have an obligation to defend little countries and peoples from big ones. We let aggressors eat other countries and groups all the time. Let's talk about Tibet and the Kurds. Let's talk about the Uighurs. We didn't fight for Cuba. We let Venezuela go. We're going to give China Taiwan if it comes to war. Dumping Ukraine would be no different, except some of the places we've abandoned actually should have been helped. Ukraine is run by a mafia pretending to be a government.
No, we did not obligate ourselves to help Ukraine in the Budapest Memo. We basically agreed to express support while doing nothing. We have gone beyond fulfilling that promise.
The dumbest argument I've seen is that we owe Ukraine money for the nukes that were removed. Those belonged to the USSR, they were crap Soviet technology we didn't want, and the whole business cost us money. It's not like we painted "USA" on embarrassing missiles full of vacuum tubes and aimed them at Russia and China. If I agree to haul junk cars and old commodes out of your yard because your meth house is ruining the neighborhood, I am not obligate to pay you anything.
Leaving nukes in Ukraine would have been like giving Kanye West his own aircraft carrier. It would have been like throwing AK-47's and PCP into a monkey exhibit. The Ukrainians would have sold their whole inventory, plus their mothers' transplantable organs, to the first jihadi to make it to Kiev. We should have forced Ukraine to pay us to disarm them.
We don't have a significant strategic interest in Ukraine, but Europeans do, so let them pay for it and send their sons to bleed. We have been back-door subsidizing BMW, Mercedes, and Airbus for decades by paying to defend a continent full of hostile ingrates that send us no aid whatsoever. If Europe is rich enough to put Boeing out of business, it's rich enough to build tanks.
I used to try to find justifications for our involvement in their Ukraine mess. I gave up. All I saw were rationalizations that all seemed to trace back to TDS.
No, Putin is not going to take over Europe. He never planned to. He can't even beat Ukraine. He is not a moron. Maybe he'll get a couple of tiny countries Americans don't need. Let Europeans handle it for once.
No, Ukraine is not our ally. Not really. It has always been pretty hostile. Now its corrupt government wants our arms and money to fight another corrupt government. Suddenly, we are BFF's? Come on. Look at the past.
No, we don't have to buy rare earths from Ukraine's current comedian-headed regime in order to fix a crisis.
1. There is no crisis. Rare earths are not rare, and while China has a whole lot, we can get them elsewhere. We have a lot right here.
2. Even if we had all the rare earths on Earth, we would still have to send them to China for refining, because good luck building a refining facility in America. We can't compete with China's prices, and the greenies will glue themselves to highways until we give up.
3. Whoever rules Ukraine when the war ends will sell us rare earths. Putin has already said he would do it. He sells gas and oil to his enemies every day.
No, we don't have an obligation to defend little countries and peoples from big ones. We let aggressors eat other countries and groups all the time. Let's talk about Tibet and the Kurds. Let's talk about the Uighurs. We didn't fight for Cuba. We let Venezuela go. We're going to give China Taiwan if it comes to war. Dumping Ukraine would be no different, except some of the places we've abandoned actually should have been helped. Ukraine is run by a mafia pretending to be a government.
No, we did not obligate ourselves to help Ukraine in the Budapest Memo. We basically agreed to express support while doing nothing. We have gone beyond fulfilling that promise.
The dumbest argument I've seen is that we owe Ukraine money for the nukes that were removed. Those belonged to the USSR, they were crap Soviet technology we didn't want, and the whole business cost us money. It's not like we painted "USA" on embarrassing missiles full of vacuum tubes and aimed them at Russia and China. If I agree to haul junk cars and old commodes out of your yard because your meth house is ruining the neighborhood, I am not obligate to pay you anything.
Leaving nukes in Ukraine would have been like giving Kanye West his own aircraft carrier. It would have been like throwing AK-47's and PCP into a monkey exhibit. The Ukrainians would have sold their whole inventory, plus their mothers' transplantable organs, to the first jihadi to make it to Kiev. We should have forced Ukraine to pay us to disarm them.
We don't have a significant strategic interest in Ukraine, but Europeans do, so let them pay for it and send their sons to bleed. We have been back-door subsidizing BMW, Mercedes, and Airbus for decades by paying to defend a continent full of hostile ingrates that send us no aid whatsoever. If Europe is rich enough to put Boeing out of business, it's rich enough to build tanks.
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There was nothing to gain and everything to loose for Russia by instigating the shooting ,It was just a nudge to push things over . Typical response would be for Yanukovich call in CSTO like Kazakhstan did in 2022 . But Putin was talked down from that.
EU trade deal was either or . This might seem straight forward , but a Ukrainian economy would need a massive shock therapy to be able to trade with EU on any scale ,need to conform to shitload of EU rules , That is why non EU conforming Ukrainian wheat and co are used for animal feed in EU . EU farmers would go broke if Ukraine ever gets to play on level playing field.
Color revolutions have been tried many times in Ukraine US admittedly spent 5billion on it. 5billion $ is a shit load of money in a country that had something like 300$ median wage .
Ukraine and Georgia are two NATO prospects since 2008 that have 95% of all NGOs foreign financed , lets just say that kinda makes it easy to get paid protesters in numbers.
End of the day it does not matter any more , if you gave people choice to decide which regions belong where Ukraine would loose all the same regions its going to lose now, there is no way they could make a referendum that would go Ukraines way in most of these. Definetly not in Crimea ,Donetsk or Lughansk .
Folks forget how welcome Ukrainan army was in Eastern Ukraine after the Maidan coup
Massive memory hole that when they launched their 48hour ATO , Ukrainian Army was treated as an occupying force by the locals for next 8+ years.
We'll see. Democrats are going insane right now but their voters are just as crazy, and there's a lot of them.
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You're right, it's much better for the Ukie's to pilfer their own countries wealth.
What's the name of this country that's going to annihilate Russian forces? The collective Globalists haven't faired too well to date despite throwing hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars in the way of Advisors, ISR assistance, advanced weapon systems and superseeded military hardware into the fray.
How many more Oreshnik missiles does Putin have? I very much doubt he fired off the only one he had. (I mentioned in the deleted Ukraine thread that Russia has weapons systems the west had no knowledge of, well prior to Russia launching it. I was ridiculed by a few mates both ex-mil and Intel. They then riduculed me for stating Putin would have more. They assured me it was only the one. My reply was 'you had no knowledge he had one prior to launch, you have no credibility to add further comment. They have been consistantly wrong on the trajectory of this conflict from just prior to its beginnings. I just sit back and collect green ticks. Why is it they refuse to acknowledge they have been wrong on their assessments? I can only assume it is the same mindset as those continuing to progress an agenda and doubling down on reinforcing failure)
Is it possible your view on this confilct is completely wrong and you're attempting to reinforce failure exactly the same as the globalists?
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We'll see
Twitter outages today and yesterday are due to Ukrainian cyber attack according to Elon, see how well that plays out
Why the fuck would this imaginary country fight Russia in a war because Trump ask them to?
More war is also the definition of more war.
Great post. Congress should be required to stand and repeat this post every morning like I did the Pledge of Allegiance when I was a kid in school.
Secretary Rubio in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia for Tomorrow’s ‘Make or Break’ Peace Talks With Ukraine | The Gateway Pundit | by Paul Serran
In Jeddah, Secretary Rubio leads crucial negotiations aimed at redefining US support for Ukraine amid ongoing conflict. The outcome could reshape international alliances and determine the future of US-Ukraine relations.
www.thegatewaypundit.com
LARPER 52 back from Finlandia with his Klaus Schwab bullshit again. 
Lookit that.
Another old one pushed into my “Recommended Videos” by YouTube, admixed with all my great granddaughter’s anime clips.
The algorithm’s really hard at work pushing the new narrative, infiltrating the crevices and deep recesses of my mind, generating all sorts of opinions and prejudices
He’s been going hard weaving his tales of lets all gang up and attack Russia.LARPER 52 back from Finlandia with his Klaus Schwab bullshit again.
Self proclaimed know it all.
I think he's one that slipped through the cracks of the DOGE cutsLARPER 52 back from Finlandia with his Klaus Schwab bullshit again.
Maybe Congo would do it if we offered unlimited maple syrup? Putin would be so fucked.
Looking more & more like and old movie script may be the play book running, in today's world.
What was that old saying? Something about better to rule in purgatory than,...
What was that old saying? Something about better to rule in purgatory than,...
Not possible. The CIA packed up and left when the Russians invaded. This narrative was pushed in the headlines in February 22. It sounded like harrod washing his hands before turning Jesus over to the Jews.
If you search for those articles now. You will find that they have been mostly scrubbed or moved to page 99 on Google search.
maybe this was a factor. they probably could have gone grozny on them the whole time.
maybe this was a factor. they probably could have gone grozny on them the whole time.
I wonder what the “agreement” is?
insanity of the 1st magnitude! exactly which "non NATO" partner could,much less would,send a military expedition to Ukraine? they would drive Russia back to the start line? more 1st magnitude insanity and just plain not true. this absolutely = ground forces besides air and space based intel.
basically an invasion of territory that Russia thinks it owns,controls now and has been Russian with Russian speakers the majority for centuries. if any countries could be talked (bribed) into such action it would require even more and deeper us involvement. it wouldn't come close to success,but if it did,you get trapped rat syndrome from an outfit that has 6K + nucs. no winner there.
yes Russia got smacked early on. they seem to have figured it out and adapted. as an aside,i don't think our military retards have accepted the fact that much has changed since '22. the question of is Putin advancing slowly on purpose or because he can't do otherwise is a debate that nobody here has an answer to,despite many here thinking they are experts on the subject.
the bottom line is we have no overriding national interest in Ukraine,E.Europe or anywhere in Europe. the whole affair is nothing more than a money laundering scam by our MIC,self aggrandizing by W.Euro elites and our neocons,a land grab by Black Rock funded by US taxpayers sacrificing Ukraine blood,infrastructure and land to keep it going.
you still provide no reason why we SHOULD be doing any of this other than to control Putin and Russia. protect us? from what? familiar with the Atlantic ocean? it's still there,still a long way from Russia. missiles can cross it either way but occupiers gotta ride over it on something. with a strong DEFENSE we have no need to be involved in proxy or of choice wars in Europe. we can't mount effective,affordable offense against Russia or China. neither can they going this way.
The Oreshnik seems to be a new capability at the start of its lifecycle so it stands to reason that it may not be at what we would call FOC right now. Maybe IOC? But how many that is in Russian JCIDS is anyone’s guess.
kind of an aside. but the notion that the Russians (and Chinese) are incapable of making good stuff is usually just more empty neocon blather. yea,they steal our good stuff because the FBI and CIA are too stupid to be able to protect it. but your story reminds me of 1941 when the Germans got a big surprise called the T-34. they had no idea and took 2 years to come up with something a bit better (in some ways).
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Shame big blue shit holes could not get a taste of this, as they pushed it from the get go.
A 1/4 MT would be my vote, for each of them.
it did create some probs for the panzer arm according to many panzer troop memoirs. they were useful and could be made in huge #s. the Sherman had some easy to set on fire problems. the tiger was lethal but too heavy for a lot of locations. panther had bad transmission. jap tanks were tinker toys when fighting Russians in '45. pnz 1 & 2 somewhat same. seems Italian tanks were usable but but not many produced. don't recall comments on JS series or Brit tanks. i'm sure they weren't trouble free. doubt any weapon system tool is perfect,can't think of any that were/are.
i think zelensky's bullshit has backfired.
russians are not about to give up the advantage they took with the pipeline operation.
he should have agreed to a ceasefire sooner...
or not shut down that pipeline that was used to deliver gas until recently.
maybe they might agree once kursk is fully liberated.
i suspect zelenky was hoping to save some of the crack troops in kursk. too late asshole.
russians are not about to give up the advantage they took with the pipeline operation.
he should have agreed to a ceasefire sooner...
or not shut down that pipeline that was used to deliver gas until recently.
maybe they might agree once kursk is fully liberated.
i suspect zelenky was hoping to save some of the crack troops in kursk. too late asshole.
US resumes military aid, intelligence sharing as Ukraine says it is open to ceasefire
The U.S. administration's decision marked a sharp shift from only a week ago.
www.detroitnews.com
US resumes military aid, intelligence sharing as Ukraine says it is open to ceasefire
The U.S. administration's decision marked a sharp shift from only a week ago.www.detroitnews.com
Yeah, thats why I wonder what this Deal is.
Will see what gives
But i reckon Putin will want to draw it out till Kursk is moped up and Ukraine looses all leverage.
The Gas pipe op seems to have worked well as rout followed.
Would be interesting to know how it was technicaly done , as its an underground gas pipe that was active pumping gas a month ago .They have sealed it with some sort of inflatable bags and bulkhead welded in place so that it pipe could be cut and vented from one side and looking the video venting holes were cut in intervals , seems to have taken quite some effort to get 15km of pipe breathable enough to get 800 soldiers trough
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