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Slow 308

PRS-JohnB

Private
Minuteman
Supporter
Jan 19, 2025
68
24
Rock Hill, SC
Hey guys. I have an Sig Cross and waiting for a new comp profile 308 barrel from Straight Jacket Armory. I am building a steady hunting rifle. I say that because length plays into the equation but weight does not. So the barrel will be 18” long. I have a young son who shot that rifle last deer season in Federal 6.5 creed amd he did well with it. I was wondering, how slow can I safely shoot 308 ammo. I know he won’t shoot over 250 yards and would like to find something lower recoil for him. Looking at MV only, 2,300fps works all the way out to 400 yards.
 
Exit wound from 16” 308, roughly 60 yards…


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With an 18” barrel, look at 150 gr ammo and either a brake or can for him.

I have used the Hornady Black 155 AMAX with an old tikka t3 and its great on deer.

Dropping speed from 2600 to 2300 fps wont decrease recoil that much in my experience

Or just use a .223. 77 TMK is good on deer.
 
I didn't see a requirement for factory ammo in the op. Apologies if I missed it...

That said, hodgdon has a good bit of reduced rifle loads. 308 is an easy one with ballistic tip stuff loaded under 2500 fps. Thr nosler light stuff works very well here.

A 3030 style bullet driven at 3030 speed works well here too, thinking the sierra 150 or 170 fn.
 
Even if you add a pound or two of barrel, you're going to have to drop down to 125-130gr bullets to keep recoil close to your old 6.5 setup. Suppressors, or even a really good 90* brake setup will help your young shooter some.

The good news is that there are several bullets 150gr and under under that work great out to about 250 yards. The bad news is now your trajectory will suffer, and an accurate range measurement will be more important than it was before.

2,300 at the muzzle isn't going to give you the performance at 400 yards that you're hoping for. Keep it 2,500+ and limit yourself to that 250 and you won't have to do as much tracking (moot point if you hunt out in the open or in the snow I guess).

I've killed a lot of hogs with an 18" .308 over the years. It is devastating, but 95% of my stuff is killed within 150 yards.
 
If you reload and can find H4895, pair it with Sierra 125 Pro Hunter and follow the Hodgdon reduced load data. When the kids were starting out, I had a short stocked/barrel .308, made some nice mild loads going right about 2200. If you don't want to reload, you may be able to find the factory reduced recoil loads--or maybe look into the 7-08/.243? Plenty of ideas out there, even a Ranch in 7.62x39, 6/6.5 based, AR, etc. Even .300 Barnes Black Tips.

If you want to stay with the Cross-do a 7-08 barrel and get the factory reduced recoil

I personally would pick up a middle tier 6ARC upper unless your area prohibits a semi for hunting. The kids loved the 6.5Grendel and 6.8 SPCII guns they hunted with, I was able to fit it to them, a lot easier than the bolt gun options at the time. The Cross does have a decent advantage there. Thing is, the deer all died the same, .300 Barnes, 6.5, 6.8, 7-08, .308, 30-06, 12 Ga. slug, OOB, nothing went further than 25-30 yards until their legs got short.


 
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Just my experience on me and with other users. Otherwise wouldnt advise that. Used more than 20 of different brands and models on different guns. Happy with them. Reduced muzle blast and noise for shooter and bystanders, reduced recoil and muzle flash at night. Cons: added length and weight
Typically, suppressors don't reduce recoil. Most of the time they raise it slightly b/c of the compressed gasses. but a lot of people perceive they have less recoil b/c of the lower concussive blast.
 
Typically, suppressors don't reduce recoil. Most of the time they raise it slightly b/c of the compressed gasses. but a lot of people perceive they have less recoil b/c of the lower concussive blast.
Yeah, that’s completely false… Suppressors DO reduce recoil, because the trapped gases pull the rifle forward when they hit the baffles, just like a muzzle brake does. This has been proven in numerous tests.
 
Yes and no… A big volume can like a full-size Magnus, or Hydrogen-L, or Nomad-LT on a .308 sized cartridge will be a very noticeable difference over a bare muzzle, and about the same as a good brake, from my experience.
Yeah, we could really get in the weeds on this debating actual recoil vs felt recoil, etc. I really am not a fan of brakes, but all my “comp rifles” wore/wear brakes. And, most comp shooters use brakes.

The fact is that a braked rifle will tend to move less after the shot than a suppressed rifle, making seeing trace and impacts through the scope significantly easier. But, the muzzle blast and concussion of a brake can make them significantly less pleasant to shoot than a suppressed rifle. I hated shooting in a squad of braked rifles, and would move as far away as practical until my turn on the line.

A suppressor, on the other hand, has virtually zero concussion. And, the recoil impulse is elongated as compared to a bare muzzle. (The slow push vs sharp punch analogy) The lack of blast and the elongated impulse can make the perception of recoil much lower. I know that I can shoot much higher round counts from a suppressed rifle than I can with a braked rifle. An 8 stage match always left me with a headache. Not so with a suppressed gun. But, for all of the benefits, a suppressor will tend to push the rifle further off of target than brake, making seeing impacts more difficult.

The comp world has spoken and brakes are still king.

But…

For a young kid in a hunting scenario? Suppressor all day.
 
Just my experience on me and with other users. Otherwise wouldnt advise that. Used more than 20 of different brands and models on different guns. Happy with them. Reduced muzle blast and noise for shooter and bystanders, reduced recoil and muzle flash at night. Cons: added length and weight
This is what's bullshit
NO muzzle blast
NO noise
NO recoil

No means zero. A can reduces the first two significantly. The recoil reduction is debatable.

But there is still blast, noise, and recoil.
 
tripod. He is a small framed 11 year old.
Seriously consider the upper for a small frame AR, he will enjoy it, easy to adjust to his size, grow with it, relatively light, recoil mild, versatile use. Do not install a brake unless he will be wearing hearing protection in the woods. Whatever you are spending---and waiting for a Cross barrel, dicking around in trying different loads, etc it may even be cheaper, again pick a decent mid tier upper
 
Yeah, we could really get in the weeds on this debating actual recoil vs felt recoil, etc. I really am not a fan of brakes, but all my “comp rifles” wore/wear brakes. And, most comp shooters use brakes.

The fact is that a braked rifle will tend to move less after the shot than a suppressed rifle, making seeing trace and impacts through the scope significantly easier. But, the muzzle blast and concussion of a brake can make them significantly less pleasant to shoot than a suppressed rifle. I hated shooting in a squad of braked rifles, and would move as far away as practical until my turn on the line.

A suppressor, on the other hand, has virtually zero concussion. And, the recoil impulse is elongated as compared to a bare muzzle. (The slow push vs sharp punch analogy) The lack of blast and the elongated impulse can make the perception of recoil much lower. I know that I can shoot much higher round counts from a suppressed rifle than I can with a braked rifle. An 8 stage match always left me with a headache. Not so with a suppressed gun. But, for all of the benefits, a suppressor will tend to push the rifle further off of target than brake, making seeing impacts more difficult.

The comp world has spoken and brakes are still king.

But…

For a young kid in a hunting scenario? Suppressor all day.
I agree with all your thoughts. I shoot an MPA DN5 on my comp rifle and it does a great job of reducing recoil so i can spot my impacts, but it is loud as anything. Esp to those around me. It really doesn't bother me, but i believe i am outside of its concussive blast for the most part behind the rifle. When at a comp, i double ear pro just to save what i have left of my hearing and keep the headache at bay. I am strongly considering a suppressor for my son and myself for hunting. Looking at the Magnus/Omega300 for quietness in the woods. but also like the idea of trying one out on my comp rifle but would want a two part suppressor like the Area419 Maverick with a brake on the end of the suppressor.
 
I agree with all your thoughts. I shoot an MPA DN5 on my comp rifle and it does a great job of reducing recoil so i can spot my impacts, but it is loud as anything. Esp to those around me. It really doesn't bother me, but i believe i am outside of its concussive blast for the most part behind the rifle. When at a comp, i double ear pro just to save what i have left of my hearing and keep the headache at bay. I am strongly considering a suppressor for my son and myself for hunting. Looking at the Magnus/Omega300 for quietness in the woods. but also like the idea of trying one out on my comp rifle but would want a two part suppressor like the Area419 Maverick with a brake on the end of the suppressor.
TBAC Magnus-S or OCL Hydrogen-S all day long for a hunting rifle. No need to go 9” on a hunting can. 7” is fine out in The open woods. 👍🏼
 
Yeah, that’s completely false… Suppressors DO reduce recoil, because the trapped gases pull the rifle forward when they hit the baffles, just like a muzzle brake does. This has been proven in numerous tests.

Suppressors do reduce felt recoil when compared to shooting a bare muzzle but not by creating some sort of force couple inside the baffles or linear force that effects the gun, somehow, in the direction the bullet is traveling...

This has not been proven because that's just not how physics work. See Newtons third law by function of the second law.

Suppressors spread the linear force of the expanding gas over time thus "blunting" your peak impulse spike by decelerating gasses. They transform a spike into a concave curve.

@PRS-JohnB OP, a quality break will be more effective than a can at reducing felt recoil everything else being equal. It comes with the negative effects of concussion.

The fact that suppressor companies are making breaked cans should be proof enough that in the vast majority of scenarios a break reduces felt impulse more effectively than a can simply by virtue of force vector dynamics. You transform one big force vector acting inline and opposite of the shooter into three or more smaller vectors at angles close to or perpendicular in most cases from the point of contact.
 
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