Me commenting on their stuff would be like AOC commenting on Elon's latest SpaceX designs.
They released an RFI to ensure that they would get a good number of responses from a wide array of potential suppliers.
It will be interesting to see what they finally refine the specs down to when they move from an RFI to an RFP.
And they will say it is open competitive bid but essentially it will be sole source
I think it does have more up to a certain distance (800yd?) then 6.5 starts pulling away. So as others have said the use cases for LE taking shots that long from gassers are pretty nonexistent. The cost to re-outfit everyone, more barrels to replace, etc compared to the nonexistent benefit makes no sense.
That guy is pretty lean by today’s trends. Any mid-section mass can compensate for the sloped roofs....
Shooters on these guns aren't typically tasked with direct action HR.
A 16" 6.5 with appropriate ammunition out-performs 20" .308 with 175gr SMK in drop and wind deflection. But what really matters is that the gun is smaller and lighter.
There are at least 5 other companies with compliant models, and we all fully expect this to go to full and open competition.
Of the competitive tenders that I have participated in for the USSS, they are among the best for fairness and adherence to requirements. No, I haven't won every opportunity, and the ones I was not successful with I do believe that they got what matched their needs the best. The world of government procurement is strange for those that don't work in it, so I understand the suspicion and "feels" associated with it, but ultimately it comes down to hitting threshold and objective requirements, and all else being equal, showing a greater value over the life of the contract. We aren't building spaceships or bridges, so "going over budget" isn't something that applies.
The point is at that distance the ballistics are virtually identical. Inside 300 yards , go with the cartridge with better ammo options and longer barrel life.
Eh, really the point is that a smaller gun is desired, and once you get into the 16" range .308 is harder to precisely place than good .264 projectiles at similar speeds. Barrel life isn't really a big concern per their requirements.
There are definitely good reasons to choose .308, and there are some very interesting developments in .308 projectiles that should really be the comparison point rather than 175gr SMK. That said, terminal performance and terminal-performance related considerations are a key part of caliber change in conjunction with going to a smaller gun. Unfortunately, I am not able to go into detail on that subject.
They are aware of 6mm ARC and it does not meet their requirements for several reasons.
Thanks. Good info. What "interesting developments in .308 projectiles" would you recommend? Second - I like the "smaller gun" concept - but would the .264 projectiles in 16" be better than .308 in terms of precision out of 16" or less?
Almost all US LE have moved on from any 168 or 175 SMK based ammo. Those that haven't are making preparation to do so.
I assume smaller and lighter only due to 16" vs 20" since both would be on a large frame model?
Most of my world in .308 revolves around 175gr SMK, specifically due to it being the projectile in AB39 and M118LR. What I know about other projectiles is mostly due to personal interest, with a little bit on the job side for improved terminal performance, but those have almost always shown a degradation in dispersion compared to the 175 SMK. That precision loss has generally been accepted in favor of the improved terminal performance given the distances involved in most applications.
That's faster than I expected given the Federal data. That said, 2500 isn't a crazy number for 168s from 16" .308 either.
Their requirements are different than LE, Mil, and "normal guy", as they do have a pretty diverse mission set. I can't really talk a lot about that, but I'm also not intimately involved in those requirements, so I wouldn't truly be an SME in that regard as I don't work there.
I still see it pretty frequently, but the shift is good.
Barrel length reduction is part of it, but so is barrel profile and suppressor.
No worries, I don't take it personally, and if I wasn't willing to discuss what I can I would have just ignored it. I do kinda raise my hackles when I see comments that imply or directly state that things are written specifically for KAC given the amount of work we have to do to respond to something as seemingly simple as an RFI, and not even getting into the thick of an actual RFP for competitive down-select.
Dual digital levels on them, one for scope cant, one for roof pitch.
What the FUCK?!?!? They dont use the ones they have NOW lol. Shoot a few more people with the CURRENT ones that WE overpaid for, miss a few times, THEN come back with a need statement that you could actually justify. Wow. Just wanting to blow money for NO REASON. And I doubt that stupid 300wm they had on that roof is the only model they have. They have to have some sort of .223 spr somewhere for close in work, where they dont want to blow through 43 bodies before accidentally killing an innocent.Secret Service Eyes New 6.5mm Semi-Automatic Sniper Rifle
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Depending on the bullet and barrel length, it's usually a little sooner than this. I think 600 or so is where the lesser bc of the 308 starts hampering it.
Our Hornady experience is that their stuff is crap half the time anyway, so I can't blame you on not spending your money on TAP.
While not an auto loader this would get you somewhat in the ball park, his 22" 142 records match what I was getting from my 22" JP build with 140 hybrids with Berger factory ammo.
16” 6.5 Creed RTR
Thanks. That is the realm I figured those ammo types would be living in but had no personal direct experience.
6 lb ultra light AR 10 in 308 ...already to go form 0 to 1200 yds. Total weight with scope 7 lbs 12 oz.
I don't have data on 6.5 Hornady TAP or Fed TRU, but I'm getting high 2500's to mid 2600's with 140gr Bergers from 16" 6.5 SR-25s.
