MIG Welder Questions

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alamo5000

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#1
I am shopping around for a small MIG Welder and thought I should ask some questions along the way.

I know little to nothing about welding but I have done a very little bit of stick welding before. I made some target stands and maybe some other small things but that's it. Hopefully I can get some feedback and learn more from people in the know as I go along.

So far I am thinking about a 120V input flux core MIG Welder. They are fairly cheap in some places but honestly I am not super price sensitive. That said I don't want an expensive machine that gets used 3-4 times per year.

The reason for the flux core is that I won't have to worry about buying gas and all that. My understanding is that the flux creates its own shielding which is similar to stick welding in that regard. Other than that it's generally a plug and play system (I think).

Just for conversation sake let's say I put a price cap of say $500. Obviously I am not talking about top of the heap equipment.

The reason for the 120V is that I can take it anywhere that I can get an extension cord to which would be kind of nice. At least that's my thinking.

Other than those two things, and keeping that in mind, what would the limitations be for a system like that? What are some features that I should look for in a machine?

With a welder like that it's generally going to be for odd jobs and projects that I have. That said what are the limitations on what types of metals I could weld up and more importantly the thickness of said metal? I probably won't be welding anything super thick but the probability of welding thinner things is much more possible.

Any advice or corrections will be welcome.
 
#2
You run an extension cord with the little mig welders and you welds can be to cold. Mig welders draw a lot of amps. Always plug them in with just the machines cord if possible, if not use the heaviest cord you have. I would advise you to get a machine that can be run with gas due to you possibly wanting to use it in the future. Flux core with a gas back up makes some beautiful welds. Make sure you look at the traction wheels that feed the wire, don’t buy one with the plastic wheels. I’ve used a half dozen of the little mig welders and have been back and forth from Miller to Lincoln a few times. Spend the money you won’t regret it. Buy lots of tips and keep your stinger straight don’t ever kink it. Changing liners is avoided if you take care of you stinger! 1/4 mild steel is about all you can get away with and that’s with 3 passes. I have welded 3/8 mild steel but it is not recommended.
 
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#4
I've used Amico Power devices for a long time and had maximum reliability from them.

If you are only planning on welding without gas, an Amico MIG-130A will be the ultimate light-moderate use rig. It retails under $200 at most places but is *ONLY* designed for gasless flux core. Input is standard residential 110V. It is also compact, barely larger than a packed up Coleman dual burner camp stove.

My totearound that I use both at work and at home is an Amico MIG-200. It's a BEAST. Runs MIG/flux, TIG, and stick on dual 110v/230v commercial input and compatible with multiple materials. That thing cost $600 but is worth every cent. I've used it on gas some times but these days I am running mostly flux because we got a shit ton of that. Since I frequently carry it around on a pull dolly, the question of "does the dog wag it's tail or does the tail wag the dog?" comes up, and in this case, it is the latter LOL. The 200 series is my go-to all around problem solver.
 
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#5
Loner said:
You run an extension cord with the little mig welders and you welds can be to cold. Mig welders draw a lot of amps. Always plug them in with just the machines cord if possible, if not use the heaviest cord you have. I would advise you to get a machine that can be run with gas due to you possibly wanting to use it in the future. Flux core with a gas back up makes some beautiful welds. Make sure you look at the traction wheels that feed the wire, don’t buy one with the plastic wheels. I’ve used a half dozen of the little mig welders and have been back and forth from Miller to Lincoln a few times. Spend the money you won’t regret it. Buy lots of tips and keep your stinger straight don’t ever kink it. Changing liners is avoided if you take care of you stinger! 1/4 mild steel is about all you can get away with and that’s with 3 passes. I have welded 3/8 mild steel but it is not recommended.
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If I end up buying a welder of this type I will invest in a suitable extension cord. The whole concept is to be able to move around with it for odd jobs. I just don't know enough to know what I don't know.

On your second point if I am understanding right it will have the option to run gas but not mandatory with the flux core?

As far as thickness of metal goes we have a stick welder for bigger heavy duty stuff. What I hope to accomplish with this new thing is to be able to weld thinner or smaller stuff with a more user friendly system. Fixing the clothes line or patio furniture or some other stuff like a fence post or whatever is more the idea. Maybe I'm just dumb or not exactly experienced enough but trying to weld small or thinner things with a stick welder is not exactly easy.
 
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#7
The 120vac units well 1/8" well. Short welds on 3/16 also work, but the duty cycle is typically short.
If you had 240vac available, I would buy a 240 volt machine. They duty cycle is about twice that of the smaller units, and you can weld heavier steel if needed.

Essentially they will not work for 1/4" steel. If those thickness of steel work for you, the 120vac units are very handy. As mentioned above, buy a HEAVY GAUGE extension cord. I would recommend 10/3 cable if you are using a 50' cord.

People seem to be happy with the higher end wire feed welders from Harbor Freight. If on a budget I would buy a used Lincoln or a new Harbor Freight unit. A good 120vac Harbor Freight unit is $600 on sale, $800 regular price.
 
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#8
I have a Lincoln, but I got a Harbor Freight Titanium Unlimited 200 because its 120/240, it does stick and DC TIG as well as MIG, and because I wanted it. I haven't used the Lincoln in years. The Titanium's torch is nimbler.

I was willing to risk a short warranty because I know a little about electronics, and I figured I could fix the welder if it had a Chinese seizure on me.

I have had no problems at all with this welder. They also sell a 170-amp MIG that goes 120 or 240 for $549. Coupons sometimes appear.

There is a lot to be said for getting good with a stick welder, though. I have not managed it because I have not practiced enough.

In case anyone cares, I highly recommend avoiding factory-made welding carts. I built rolling frames that held US General tool carts, and they are wonderful.

08 13 22 harbor freight red tool chest welding cart no tanks small.jpg
 
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#11
Buck Wilde said:
I have a Lincoln, but I got a Harbor Freight Titanium Unlimited 200 because its 120/240, it does stick and DC TIG as well as MIG, and because I wanted it. I haven't used the Lincoln in years. The Titanium's torch is nimbler.

I was willing to risk a short warranty because I know a little about electronics, and I figured I could fix the welder if it had a Chinese seizure on me.

I have had no problems at all with this welder. They also sell a 170-amp MIG that goes 120 or 240 for $549. Coupons sometimes appear.

There is a lot to be said for getting good with a stick welder, though. I have not managed it because I have not practiced enough.

In case anyone cares, I highly recommend avoiding factory-made welding carts. I built rolling frames that held US General tool carts, and they are wonderful.

View attachment 8665296
Click to expand...
I haven't seen an older toilet paper roll dryer in a while
 
#13
Keep in mind a lot of these cheaper 110 units will have a 10% duty cycle.
Thats 1 minute of welding and 9 minutes of rest/cooling.

Some machines are much more forgiving on the duty cycle, and it all depends on the amps and material thickness.

You mention welding thinner materials. I believe Flux core wire only comes sized .035.
Welding thin material is challenging, especially with thicker wire and a flux core. Even stuff like exhaust pipes is thin with .035 flux core.

I'm not saying don't do it, just there is a learning curve.

My 110/220 mig machine is a non inverter miller 211. Haven't run flux core in a decade.
Only ever hit the duty cycle/overheat warning light 1 time rebuilding a dump truck tailgate. Was either using 3/8" or 1/2" material.
 
#15
The smallest Lincoln Innershield is available in .030 to and have a 10# spool in my shop. The Lincoln 140 is a good little welder and had one in my shop for many years and sold to a friend. Over the years had a Millermatic 211 and now use a Millermatic 255 and Fronius Transsteel 2200 which will run on 120/240v. To run flux core the drive rollers need to be knurled to properly feed the wire and the gun needs to be set on DCEN. From a practical standpoint 1/8" will be the thickest metal you will be able to get adequate penetration with a 120v machine. I have done cut and etch tests running both flux core and solid wire to verify. Flux core will generally get better penetration than solid wire. The hardest part with small machines is dialing them in to get a good bead profile. Lots of folks like Primeweld machines and you may want to look at their MIG 180 machine.
 
#21
alamo5000 said:
I am shopping around for a small MIG Welder and thought I should ask some questions along the way.

I know little to nothing about welding but I have done a very little bit of stick welding before. I made some target stands and maybe some other small things but that's it. Hopefully I can get some feedback and learn more from people in the know as I go along.

So far I am thinking about a 120V input flux core MIG Welder. They are fairly cheap in some places but honestly I am not super price sensitive. That said I don't want an expensive machine that gets used 3-4 times per year.

The reason for the flux core is that I won't have to worry about buying gas and all that. My understanding is that the flux creates its own shielding which is similar to stick welding in that regard. Other than that it's generally a plug and play system (I think).

Just for conversation sake let's say I put a price cap of say $500. Obviously I am not talking about top of the heap equipment.

The reason for the 120V is that I can take it anywhere that I can get an extension cord to which would be kind of nice. At least that's my thinking.

Other than those two things, and keeping that in mind, what would the limitations be for a system like that? What are some features that I should look for in a machine?

With a welder like that it's generally going to be for odd jobs and projects that I have. That said what are the limitations on what types of metals I could weld up and more importantly the thickness of said metal? I probably won't be welding anything super thick but the probability of welding thinner things is much more possible.

Any advice or corrections will be welcome.
Click to expand...
Shop for dual voltage (120 & 240Vac) machines of at least 180 amp (240Vac) or better. At some point you will get tired of the smoke from the inter-shield & will set her up for solid wire & gas. Once you have, do not even think about or let them talk you into a 75/25 gas mix, go strait to 90/10 and you'll never have to look back. Depending the nozzle you can change the gas shielding/discharging size and tailor the flow & save a bunch of gas, assuming a no wind a/o, when melting wire.
 
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#26
Just a follow-up for everyone. (Until yesterday) I was on the hunt for a little welder.

Then I mentioned it to someone here and they have one that was just sitting in storage. Hence I now have a wire welder also for if/when I need it.

All I know is it's a Hobart but it works perfectly and the price is right, especially to learn on.
 
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#27
Jscb1b said:
I was taught, if you can't weld good, weld alot.
Click to expand...

And never forget: "A grinder and paint make me the welder I ain't."

I have a great tip for people whose welds are ugly but strong. Buy something like Bondo and put it over them. Then paint.

One of the least-smart things welders do is burying things in weld to make them look nice. You end up spending a ton on wire and gas, your welds are no better structurally, and you get more warpage. Welding wire has a tensile strength of 70,000 psi, so you don't really need an ounce of wire for a joint that will never see more than 1,000 pounds of tension. Just putty over it, sand it down, and then paint.

Shaping dried epoxy is a hell of a lot easier than shaping dried weld.

Came up with this idea on my own. I have no idea why other people don't do it.

Also, buy your wire at Harbor Freight. Steel is steel. You can get several spools for the cost of one spool of the US stuff, which is also probably from China.

I think you're on the right track with flux core. I have not used it, but I probably should.
 
#29
I only flux core weld. I'd love to use gas, love to learn to TIG as well, but all my welding is out in the driveway in the wind, usually on unusual objects in unusual positions, so there isn't much point. When I bought my machine about 5 years ago, I decided "this" is what I'm going to weld on the most, but I will spend more, go up one machine, so I can weld X-much thicker stuff. (without digging out the ancient stick welder) As it turns out, I've yet to weld any thicker stuff, but far, FAR more thin stuff than I ever would have imagined. :cautious:


When I got started I would watch youtube trying to learn, but so little of what I saw was relevant. "Make a test pass on your coupon..." A what on my what? I'm trying to weld rusty broken old shit to other rusty broken old shit, upside down under a truck, laying in a puddle. Some guy welding similar, brand shiny new coupons together at a bench with a $4k machine didn't help me too much. :LOL:
 
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#30
Youtube is famous for fake welds, too.

It's also important to be able to tell the difference between an ad and an instructional video. Youtube is full of sellouts who will say any product is good as long as the manufacturer gives them one. They mislead people, and they also sell themselves cheap. They don't realize a good review seen by 500,000 people is worth a hell of a lot more than a welding machine. They're amateurs, so they get all excited when someone offers them a peanut. They're like girls who throw their underwear at rock stars.

One of the dumbest products I ever saw is the ZTFab welding cart. It's a pile of parts you weld together yourself and then prime and paint. All sorts of Youtube sellouts received kits for nothing, put them together, and then told gullible noobs how great they were. I used to watch a machinist called Abom79, but I got tired of him doing ads disguised as instruction, and he pushed ZTFab when he absolutely had to know what a bad buy the kit was. I had a Vulcan cart that did the same things a ZTFfab does, and I got rid of it because it was worthless in actual use.

Their cart kits run $575, and you end up with a cart that isn't very good. It holds a lot of weight, but it's just a frame, and there is no storage. Anything you put on it gets covered with grit and crud. They also make a shelf kind of thing that turns a rolling tool box into a welding cart. The bottles sit on the shelf, which is flimsy. The shelf kits cost $240 with no box. Back in '22, I paid around $300 (total) for a U.S. General box, steel to build a cart under it, casters, paint, and fasteners. I got a huge amount of enclosed storage, I was able to park two machines on top, and my project can hold two huge bottles. I have two of these carts now, plus a cart I built to hold belt grinders. I wouldn't have a factory-made cart from any manufacturer even if it was free.

The ZTFab kits are like paint by numbers kits. If you're a real welder, you can make your own cart from scratch. A kit makes you think you're a fabricator when you're not. What's the point of buying tools if you never learn to use them? I'm a hack, and I built my own carts without issues.

I also get tired of seeing Youtube whores with $2,500 MIG welders telling everyone they need red, blue, ESAB, or some European welder that does exactly what a Titanium or Eastwood will do. If somebody was paying me to pimp ESAB, and I made my living with it, I'd use one, too because of the reliability and customer service. Cheap welders work fine for people who fabricate for 100 hours or less a year.
 
#31
37 yr retired ironworker, I've used them all ,Lincoln, Miller, Hobart, esap, eastwood ect.for my money especially on the smaller machines Miller seems to weld the best, you can get the 120/240 inverter machines for a decent price, once you move up to the larger units like the Miller 252 all the major manufacturers are kinda equal, but since you got the Hobart from a friend your good to go , practice practice practice, and make ur own cart it's a good starter project, and for extension cord use 10
gage or larger for long runs , also you might need a dedicated 120 circuit for the garage with a 20amp breaker at least.
 
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#32
Buck Wilde said:
Youtube is famous for fake welds, too.
Click to expand...
Youtube is famous all kinds of fake shit.

Buck Wilde said:
Buck Wilde said:
If you're a real welder, you can make your own cart from scratch. A kit makes you think you're a fabricator when you're not. What's the point of buying tools if you never learn to use them? I'm a hack, and I built my own carts without issues.
Click to expand...
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This^^^^^
My first welder was a Mopar 12Vdc alternator powered via a 8HP B&S engine I cobbled together. That POS would burn a 1/8 rod deep into what ever you hit it with. Ran that girl for many years before buying my first Lincoln 225 tombstone that I still have. Installed a full wave bridge rectifier on the her awhile back and she will burn thru pounds of 5/32 7014 & 7018 all day long. Burnt many lb's of 3/16 GP rod as well with her, over the years. Broke down an bought a Lincoln wire feed, while its nice for some stuff, the old tombstone still gets the call every so often. Buddy has an older 400 amp Hobart diesel, I hope to get in a trade soon just to be used for Arc-Gouging.
 
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#33
Gunfighter14e2 said:
My first welder was a Mopar 12Vdc alternator powered via a 8HP B&S engine I cobbled together. That POS would burn a 1/8 rod deep into what ever you hit it with. Ran that girl for many years before buying my first Lincoln 225 tombstone that I still have. Installed a full wave bridge rectifier on the her awhile back and she will burn thru pounds of 5/32 7014 & 7018 all day long. Burnt many lb's of 3/16 GP rod as well with her, over the years. Broke down an bought a Lincoln wire feed, while its nice for some stuff, the old tombstone still gets the call every so often. Buddy has an older 400 amp Hobart diesel, I hope to get in a trade soon just to be used for Arc-Gouging.
Click to expand...
Props for the alternator welder.
 
#34
Harbor freight. The green ones. (Voyager?)

They're cheap. Less than half the price of a Lincoln or Miller. So you can justify it.

They have 2 cords and will run a reduced amperage on 20A 120v, or full value on 50A 240V. So you can actually run it off a decent generator on flux core if you needed it away from the garage.

They will run flux or solid wire. So when you get tired of flux splatter you can get a gas bottle. Certain things will require different wires, and flux limits your choices.

Do not get the cheap Pittsburgh one. They're horrible.


Go to a real welding store for your wire. Flux core from harbor freight is hit and miss. No sense trying to learn with wire that will cause you issues on top of the rest of the frustration.

I learned mig on a Miller 252. Without that experience I'd have been very frustrated with some garbage welders thinking it was myself over the years.
 
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