Bartlein Barrels Update

[45-90]

I've been in manufacturing now for 40 years. Gun barrels themselves almost 30.

Here is the issue... it's not as easy as you or some others would think.

We've put more machines online over time... but you have a domino effect... we can say... lets build another rifler and we are actually toying with the idea again.... but you have to look at the whole picture... you have to look back at the whole process.... can the bore reamers and prelapping processes keep up... if you say yes... then you go back further... can the guys in contouring/lathe work keep up... if you say no... your then adding another contouring machine... and a guy to run it.... if you are adding a lathe for contour work... then you have to go back to the gun drilling.... can the gun drills keep up to feed the lathes and the whole process etc...

Actually looking at getting another gun drill as well.

You also have to look at the capital investment... is the work load going to be there a few months or a year from now etc... Yes I don't see it going anywhere.

Right now... it's not actual machine time that is the issue... it's the people time is what we are lacking. We cannot for the most part find quality people to work. One is salary... even if we agree on a starting salary.... right now the only open spots are on 2nd shift. Nobody wants to work 2nd shift. For the most part we don't have a 3rd shift so don't even go there.

At the peak of covid... we ran the shop 24 hours a day... and for several months... 7 days a week. Daytime guys started at 4am.. worked till 4pm and the 2nd shift guys came in at around 3:30pm/4pm time frame and worked till 4am. We alternated crews every other weekend so guys had time off for the weekends primarily on Sundays. Maybe 5 to 7 of us worked one Sunday and then a different group of guys worked the next Sunday. For a span of about 9 months there where 3 to 4 guys that were putting in 35 hours a week of overtime!!!!!

We hired two guys back in Nov and Dec. time frame. I interviewed another guy and we agreed on wages etc.... took about 4 weeks of going back and forth. He knew up front.... he had to start on 2nd shift. I told him there will be weeks where you can come in and work 1st shift but cannot guarantee it all the time. He plenty of experience in drilling and turning and doing finished test barrel work. He was a perfect fit... then his wife said no to 2nd shift... that killed it.

Also we are not just going to hire anyone just to throw people at the problem. That doesn't solve anything.

Later, Frank

This is a good productive discussion.

Does a small company expand to meet demand or stay in the comfort zone?

After the nuclear collapse, I started with a small company. The two owners fought over expansion and CNC equipment so much, one sold the company to the one who wanted to expand.
The new owner changed the company name and went right after the expansionist idea.
I was hired to run the New CNC lathe.
Everything went good for a few yrs, then came the layoffs. Working in a mostly empty shop on a new job, the owner came to me and said he had just financed his house to make payroll, and would really appreciate it if I didn't scrap one of these expensive copper blanks.
I assured him I would not.
That almost collapse grew into one of the most successful state of art machining centers in the state.
Huge expansions many new buildings full of CNC equipment and nice new offices.
World wide contracts, and cornered 52% of the world's market in area that I worked in, and started.
Just me and my helper made half of the first million dollar month in the company history.

How did we do it?
Work our asses off, bring new developments into the processes.
We strive to be the best, no one in the world will out work us, no one will be as productive or out think us, we are never satisfied with our excellence, tomorrow is a new day for even more accomplishments.
Be a student of your work, learn, learn, learn, and make a contribution.

The company job, IS the employees job.
Your wife will leave you on day shift as easily as she will on night shift.
Mine left on day shift... so let's get to work.

Hire that working supervisor, a hardass company team leader, a motivator, and extreme leader. The supervisor who will clean your machine sump out, while you check in material for machining, do the dirty job for his helper or fellow machinst...supervisors don't do that, or lend a hand and do part of the other guy's job when he's behind plus yours.
Never laugh at someone's mistake, it cost us all, and now you all are not allowed to have a scrap part all month...gets their attention.
Nothing better in a manufacturing or machining company, than to have people you can count on that always have your back...assemble "that team" like your life depends on it, cause financially it does.

Companies need people who will work.
Whatever it takes...do your part.

So Frank would you volunteer to take a team on the 2nd or 3rd shift and give up the day shift that you worked so hard to be on?
I did, more than a few times, about 15 yrs worth...what ever it takes to build the company.
I trained 22 machinist for this particular job on 7 years before retiring. A lot of them just won't do heavy continous work.
Certain companies have better workers when looking for laid off machinist.
HP machinist are duds ...they are lazy and Woke before Woke was invented.

Son's who's fathers owned small machine shops are good, farm kids who want something else as helpers, some former aerospace, many veterans who have it together, my supervisor was a naval officer, not real likable but did his job, kinda like me I suppose, but might I win ya over eventually. I was always an overachiever, 2nd fastest in the state track meet, but no one cares about 2nd place. Live and learn.

Bartlein as company has decisions to make. Nothing here is easy, if it was everyone else would be doing it.
It's all hard, difficult, and almost impossible.
Always keep the CNCs running they are too expensive just sitting there.
I usually run two at a time, wear them out in 5 yrs. Running 2 10 hr shifts. Making over $2500 per hr minus $1200 for material, wages, overhead.
When I volunteered to night shift other CNCs are open, I run up to 4 CNC mills, at a time voluntary... kinda.
You want production, it's one way to get it.
You have cycle time don't just stand around, grab a cup of coffee and go to work...Do Not Ever run out of coffee.
When I retired, the owner told me, "I'll probably never find another employee who works like you." My answer, " probably not".
I had higher paying offers, but declined them. Loyalty has a price, but helping build a company was priceless.
Like coming across the finish line at a State track meet first instead of second, simply the best....
How much do you want to win?...how hard are "you" willing to work?

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I've never really had to wait on a barrel for a long time and I only use Bartlein. Every time I've needed one, frank has either been able to get it to me quickly or pointed me to a vendor who had it in stock. I'd be thinking long and hard before I added anything, though I do think his workload will continue so it's probably a safe bet....it's still a bet and it's easy to do when it's with someone else's money. It's not so easy when it's risking your own, as well as the jobs of all those you employ, who count on you for their paychecks

 

[oldrifleman]

This is a good productive discussion.

Does a small company expand to meet demand or stay in the comfort zone?

After the nuclear collapse, I started with a small company. The two owners fought over expansion and CNC equipment so much, one sold the company to the one who wanted to expand.
The new owner changed the company name and went right after the expansionist idea.
I was hired to run the New CNC lathe.
Everything went good for a few yrs, then came the layoffs. Working in a mostly empty shop on a new job, the owner came to me and said he had just financed his house to make payroll, and would really appreciate it if I didn't scrap one of these expensive copper blanks.
I assured him I would not.
That almost collapse grew into one of the most successful state of art machining centers in the state.
Huge expansions many new buildings full of CNC equipment and nice new offices.
World wide contracts, and cornered 52% of the world's market in area that I worked in, and started.
Just me and my helper made half of the first million dollar month in the company history.

How did we do it?
Work our asses off, bring new developments into the processes.
We strive to be the best, no one in the world will out work us, no one will be as productive or out think us, we are never satisfied with our excellence, tomorrow is a new day for even more accomplishments.
Be a student of your work, learn, learn, learn, and make a contribution.

The company job, IS the employees job.
Your wife will leave you on day shift as easily as she will on night shift.
Mine left on day shift... so let's get to work.

Hire that working supervisor, a hardass company team leader, a motivator, and extreme leader. The supervisor who will clean your machine sump out, while you check in material for machining, do the dirty job for his helper or fellow machinst...supervisors don't do that, or lend a hand and do part of the other guy's job when he's behind plus yours.
Never laugh at someone's mistake, it cost us all, and now you all are not allowed to have a scrap part all month...gets their attention.
Nothing better in a manufacturing or machining company, than to have people you can count on that always have your back...assemble "that team" like your life depends on it, cause financially it does.

Companies need people who will work.
Whatever it takes...do your part.

So Frank would you volunteer to take a team on the 2nd or 3rd shift and give up the day shift that you worked so hard to be on?
I did, more than a few times, about 15 yrs worth...what ever it takes to build the company.
I trained 22 machinist for this particular job on 7 years before retiring. A lot of them just won't do heavy continous work.
Certain companies have better workers when looking for laid off machinist.
HP machinist are duds ...they are lazy and Woke before Woke was invented.

Son's who's fathers owned small machine shops are good, farm kids who want something else as helpers, some former aerospace, many veterans who have it together, my supervisor was a naval officer, not real likable but did his job, kinda like me I suppose, but might I win ya over eventually. I was always an overachiever, 2nd fastest in the state track meet, but no one cares about 2nd place. Live and learn.

Bartlein as company has decisions to make. Nothing here is easy, if it was everyone else would be doing it.
It's all hard, difficult, and almost impossible.
Always keep the CNCs running they are too expensive just sitting there.
I usually run two at a time, wear them out in 5 yrs. Running 2 10 hr shifts. Making over $2500 per hr minus $1200 for material, wages, overhead.
When I volunteered to night shift other CNCs are open, I run up to 4 CNC mills, at a time voluntary... kinda.
You want production, it's one way to get it.
You have cycle time don't just stand around, grab a cup of coffee and go to work...Do Not Ever run out of coffee.
When I retired, the owner told me, "I'll probably never find another employee who works like you." My answer, " probably not".
I had higher paying offers, but declined them. Loyalty has a price, but helping build a company was priceless.
Like coming across the finish line at a State track meet first instead of second, simply the best....
How much do you want to win?...how hard are "you" willing to work?

I totally disagree with you! The basis of your premise is right on, the application is Shit. You have no idea the market that truly exists here. You think Frank has not looked at how many barrels of his quality he could sell on an on-going basis? He said he had and looked at the basis of investment. He also knows the labor force in his area and understands the risk of bringing in new staff. If he doubled down without an on-going market that is not double its current size, it is a bust. I do not see him branching into non-barrels, but I don’t know him that well. You grew your market by diversifying, he owns a fair size piece of the existing market by being the best and ensures his business by maintaining a stable backlog. Not every business needs to grow that big or take the risks you did ( they paid off well for you!). Still not sure what sparked your tirade but I think frank has made his position pretty clear.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I totally disagree with you! The basis of your premise is right on, the application is Shit. You have no idea the market that truly exists here. You think Frank has not looked at how many barrels of his quality he could sell on an on-going basis? He said he had and looked at the basis of investment. He also knows the labor force in his area and understands the risk of bringing in new staff. If he doubled down without an on-going market that is not double its current size, it is a bust. I do not see him branching into non-barrels, but I don’t know him that well. You grew your market by diversifying, he owns a fair size piece of the existing market by being the best and ensures his business by maintaining a stable backlog. Not every business needs to grow that big or take the risks you did ( they paid off well for you!). Still not sure what sparked your tirade but I think frank has made his position pretty clear.

this is the first and likely only time I will ever see eye to eye with you. Starting to wonder if something big is coming?

 

[45-90]

I totally disagree with you! The basis of your premise is right on, the application is Shit. You have no idea the market that truly exists here. You think Frank has not looked at how many barrels of his quality he could sell on an on-going basis? He said he had and looked at the basis of investment. He also knows the labor force in his area and understands the risk of bringing in new staff. If he doubled down without an on-going market that is not double its current size, it is a bust. I do not see him branching into non-barrels, but I don’t know him that well. You grew your market by diversifying, he owns a fair size piece of the existing market by being the best and ensures his business by maintaining a stable backlog. Not every business needs to grow that big or take the risks you did ( they paid off well for you!). Still not sure what sparked your tirade but I think frank has made his position pretty clear.

You are welcome to your opinion...as am I

 

[oldrifleman]

You are welcome to your opinion...as am I

Both valid sir

 

[demarpaint]

This is a good productive discussion.

Does a small company expand to meet demand or stay in the comfort zone?

After the nuclear collapse, I started with a small company. The two owners fought over expansion and CNC equipment so much, one sold the company to the one who wanted to expand.
The new owner changed the company name and went right after the expansionist idea.
I was hired to run the New CNC lathe.
Everything went good for a few yrs, then came the layoffs. Working in a mostly empty shop on a new job, the owner came to me and said he had just financed his house to make payroll, and would really appreciate it if I didn't scrap one of these expensive copper blanks.
I assured him I would not.
That almost collapse grew into one of the most successful state of art machining centers in the state.
Huge expansions many new buildings full of CNC equipment and nice new offices.
World wide contracts, and cornered 52% of the world's market in area that I worked in, and started.
Just me and my helper made half of the first million dollar month in the company history.

How did we do it?
Work our asses off, bring new developments into the processes.
We strive to be the best, no one in the world will out work us, no one will be as productive or out think us, we are never satisfied with our excellence, tomorrow is a new day for even more accomplishments.
Be a student of your work, learn, learn, learn, and make a contribution.

The company job, IS the employees job.
Your wife will leave you on day shift as easily as she will on night shift.
Mine left on day shift... so let's get to work.

Hire that working supervisor, a hardass company team leader, a motivator, and extreme leader. The supervisor who will clean your machine sump out, while you check in material for machining, do the dirty job for his helper or fellow machinst...supervisors don't do that, or lend a hand and do part of the other guy's job when he's behind plus yours.
Never laugh at someone's mistake, it cost us all, and now you all are not allowed to have a scrap part all month...gets their attention.
Nothing better in a manufacturing or machining company, than to have people you can count on that always have your back...assemble "that team" like your life depends on it, cause financially it does.

Companies need people who will work.
Whatever it takes...do your part.

So Frank would you volunteer to take a team on the 2nd or 3rd shift and give up the day shift that you worked so hard to be on?
I did, more than a few times, about 15 yrs worth...what ever it takes to build the company.
I trained 22 machinist for this particular job on 7 years before retiring. A lot of them just won't do heavy continous work.
Certain companies have better workers when looking for laid off machinist.
HP machinist are duds ...they are lazy and Woke before Woke was invented.

Son's who's fathers owned small machine shops are good, farm kids who want something else as helpers, some former aerospace, many veterans who have it together, my supervisor was a naval officer, not real likable but did his job, kinda like me I suppose, but might I win ya over eventually. I was always an overachiever, 2nd fastest in the state track meet, but no one cares about 2nd place. Live and learn.

Bartlein as company has decisions to make. Nothing here is easy, if it was everyone else would be doing it.
It's all hard, difficult, and almost impossible.
Always keep the CNCs running they are too expensive just sitting there.
I usually run two at a time, wear them out in 5 yrs. Running 2 10 hr shifts. Making over $2500 per hr minus $1200 for material, wages, overhead.
When I volunteered to night shift other CNCs are open, I run up to 4 CNC mills, at a time voluntary... kinda.
You want production, it's one way to get it.
You have cycle time don't just stand around, grab a cup of coffee and go to work...Do Not Ever run out of coffee.
When I retired, the owner told me, "I'll probably never find another employee who works like you." My answer, " probably not".
I had higher paying offers, but declined them. Loyalty has a price, but helping build a company was priceless.
Like coming across the finish line at a State track meet first instead of second, simply the best....
How much do you want to win?...how hard are "you" willing to work?

That's a great rare story of success. The problem is you have to find the right people, and that's the daunting task in all of this. A stumbling block that can destroy a business if not carefully and perfectly monitored. People are funny, you can make and sell 100 barrels, 99 of which are flawless and have 99 satisfied customers. The one bad barrel can cause more harm to the company rep than the good rep the 99 made. It's not impossible to expand, it is extremely difficult. Your boss nailed it when he said he'd never find another employee like you, Frank probably won't either.

 

[RUN8]

Hell it’s hard enough to find business owners who are dedicated enough to succeed, much less employees who have that kind of drive.

I don’t claim to have that drive any more.

My employer has made it amply clear to the peons who man the trains, build and maintain the track, dispatch, and do all the other activities that keep the RR working that they hate all of us. Now we hate them too. We don’t do favors anymore, it only results in worse days at work for us with no return favors; just more scorn.

Only 14 more years to retirement. I’m in it for my family and me now, my efforts to be proactive and helpful were not rewarded so why bother?

 

[Thump_rrr]

This is a good productive discussion.

Does a small company expand to meet demand or stay in the comfort zone?

After the nuclear collapse, I started with a small company. The two owners fought over expansion and CNC equipment so much, one sold the company to the one who wanted to expand.
The new owner changed the company name and went right after the expansionist idea.
I was hired to run the New CNC lathe.
Everything went good for a few yrs, then came the layoffs. Working in a mostly empty shop on a new job, the owner came to me and said he had just financed his house to make payroll, and would really appreciate it if I didn't scrap one of these expensive copper blanks.
I assured him I would not.
That almost collapse grew into one of the most successful state of art machining centers in the state.
Huge expansions many new buildings full of CNC equipment and nice new offices.
World wide contracts, and cornered 52% of the world's market in area that I worked in, and started.
Just me and my helper made half of the first million dollar month in the company history.

How did we do it?
Work our asses off, bring new developments into the processes.
We strive to be the best, no one in the world will out work us, no one will be as productive or out think us, we are never satisfied with our excellence, tomorrow is a new day for even more accomplishments.
Be a student of your work, learn, learn, learn, and make a contribution.

The company job, IS the employees job.
Your wife will leave you on day shift as easily as she will on night shift.
Mine left on day shift... so let's get to work.

Hire that working supervisor, a hardass company team leader, a motivator, and extreme leader. The supervisor who will clean your machine sump out, while you check in material for machining, do the dirty job for his helper or fellow machinst...supervisors don't do that, or lend a hand and do part of the other guy's job when he's behind plus yours.
Never laugh at someone's mistake, it cost us all, and now you all are not allowed to have a scrap part all month...gets their attention.
Nothing better in a manufacturing or machining company, than to have people you can count on that always have your back...assemble "that team" like your life depends on it, cause financially it does.

Companies need people who will work.
Whatever it takes...do your part.

So Frank would you volunteer to take a team on the 2nd or 3rd shift and give up the day shift that you worked so hard to be on?
I did, more than a few times, about 15 yrs worth...what ever it takes to build the company.
I trained 22 machinist for this particular job on 7 years before retiring. A lot of them just won't do heavy continous work.
Certain companies have better workers when looking for laid off machinist.
HP machinist are duds ...they are lazy and Woke before Woke was invented.

Son's who's fathers owned small machine shops are good, farm kids who want something else as helpers, some former aerospace, many veterans who have it together, my supervisor was a naval officer, not real likable but did his job, kinda like me I suppose, but might I win ya over eventually. I was always an overachiever, 2nd fastest in the state track meet, but no one cares about 2nd place. Live and learn.

Bartlein as company has decisions to make. Nothing here is easy, if it was everyone else would be doing it.
It's all hard, difficult, and almost impossible.
Always keep the CNCs running they are too expensive just sitting there.
I usually run two at a time, wear them out in 5 yrs. Running 2 10 hr shifts. Making over $2500 per hr minus $1200 for material, wages, overhead.
When I volunteered to night shift other CNCs are open, I run up to 4 CNC mills, at a time voluntary... kinda.
You want production, it's one way to get it.
You have cycle time don't just stand around, grab a cup of coffee and go to work...Do Not Ever run out of coffee.
When I retired, the owner told me, "I'll probably never find another employee who works like you." My answer, " probably not".
I had higher paying offers, but declined them. Loyalty has a price, but helping build a company was priceless.
Like coming across the finish line at a State track meet first instead of second, simply the best....
How much do you want to win?...how hard are "you" willing to work?

I am nearing my 60’s and own a small mechanical contracting company with a partner.
We decided over a decade ago that we will stay small with around 6 employees because if we expand to the next level it would need to be around 25 employees to make any economic sense due to the higher overhead brought on by the additional positions required to run a company of that size. Additionally in my business all clients are net 60 days so you are financing millions of dollars at any given moment.

Making that step is more of a quality of life step than anything else and there is nothing wrong with that.
I know too many guys that dropped dead before they got to retirement.

 

[demarpaint]

I am nearing my 60’s and own a small mechanical contracting company with a partner.
We decided over a decade ago that we will stay small with around 6 employees because if we expand to the next level it would need to be around 25 employees to make any economic sense due to the higher overhead brought on by the additional positions required to run a company of that size. Additionally in my business all clients are net 60 days so you are financing millions of dollars at any given moment.

Making that step is more of a quality of life step than anything else and there is nothing wrong with that.
I know too many guys that dropped dead before they got to retirement.

Years ago I experimented with expanding from time to time. What I learned was there was a sweet spot, meaning lets say I typically ran a four man crew, I learned that crew was the most profitable and efficient. Once we got to lets say a six man crew I became a full time baby sitter. That meant any work that I was getting done wasn't getting done, and I had a higher payroll with less profit. We added a truck and another four man crew which my brother ran, successfully, however keeping a workload for eight men wasn't easy, and at times more of a headache than it was worth. I found jobs for the good men on that crew and dissolved it. Small businesses that want to expand have to find that sweet spot, it isn't as easy as hiring more help. Today a lot of people feel they're entitled to a paycheck just for showing up. They feel hey I'm here you have to pay me. I'm glad those days are long gone.