New Schmidt Bender?
- Thread starter seoi-nage
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Rifle Scopes - New Schmidt & Bender PM2 6-36x56
Apologies if this has been covered, but couldn’t find anything. https://www.schmidtundbender.de/en/new-products/6-36x56-pm-ii.html Weight (g) 940-995 Length (mm) 390 Tube diameter (mm) 34 Magnification 6-36 Objective lens diameter (mm) 56 Field of view (m) 7,3–1,25 Exit...
www.snipershide.com
@koshkin ?
It’s FOV numbers are in degrees, which isn’t usually how they specify them to mere mortals.
I wonder if they did that to disguise the fact that they’ve uncorked this version for the US?
It’s FOV numbers are in degrees, which isn’t usually how they specify them to mere mortals.
I wonder if they did that to disguise the fact that they’ve uncorked this version for the US?
They have the FOV in m/100m and ft/100y on line 4 of the specs. It is the same for bothe the CMII and PMII
All the specs seem to be the same, except for weight: CMII 34.57g and PMII 33.16g
Weird. I thought I was losing my mind there for a sec lol. Basically, the specs change depending on the reticle you select. Above is the same base URL only with the M1FL or TR²ID reticles selected (2nd reticle from left and the last one on the right).
Below is what displays for the other two reticles, the GR²ID and P5FL. Notice the degrees change (line 4 above compared to line 5 below).
I wonder if the 3.6°-0.6° spec is/was for the US…hmmm…and the dudes laying out the webpage are getting conflicting guidance from higher-ups.
Because if it was just a simple error of using the wrong (USA) spec, it’s curious as to why they also omitted the FOV row that lists ft and m. Of course it could be just yet another clerical error.
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3.6 - 0.6 degrees is the US spec FOV. 4.2 - 0.7 degrees is Euro spec FOV.
Between the CMII and PMII the difference is mostly in the reticle and turret selection. MIlitary oriented reticles like MSR2, etc are on the PMII side of things. Competition oriented ones like TR2ID and GR2ID are in the CMII line. Some reticles appear on both sides, but it sounds like reticles with built in range estimators for a human size object will be in the PMII line-up.
DTII+ and MTII+ turrets are competition. DT27 and DT35 are presumably more military oriented, so they stay on the PMII.
The only other difference I was told is waterproofing. CMII scopes are waterproof down to 3m, so I assume they are build with different seals. PMII scopes are waterproof further down than that (or can be on request; I do not remember offhand).
ILya
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Thanks man.
Setting aside the probable clerical error of the web designers…
Given the fact that S&B are the only ones that called out (in their PDF catalog) that certain US scopes of theirs had reduced FOV, it’s curious that on this new website there are no asterisks on the Euro specs.
2024-25(?) catalog, for people other than koshkin
Perhaps another clerical omission? However I’ve noticed EO is really trying to get rid of their existing 6-36 models, and seemingly not replenishing them. Apologies if I am wrong, I’m not taking notes, but that is the vibe.
I can’t quite remember if there were other S&B models impacted by the Swaro patent?
Older design though so I didn’t think it was in the camp of US FOV scopes.
Many of the older S&B designs like the 5-25 are down in the 21-ish degree AFOV region so the patent doesn't have any impact on them.
As far as newer scopes, the 6-36 and 3-18 x 42 Meta are affected and have a much narrower FOV for the US market, and as far as I know that's currently the only other new S&B model subject to the patent compliance with different FOV's between the US and European market scopes... but I haven't scoured the S&B website and crunched all the AFOV numbers for all the S&B models to see which ones may be affected so there may be others I'm missing.
When the 6-36 first came out S&B very clearly listed both US and non-US FOV specs on their website, it appears they no longer do that. I have not tried using a VPN with a US and European exit node to see if the website automatically serves up the appropriate FOV spec for the region you are visiting from.
My older full length S&B 3-20s have an AFOV larger than 22 degrees (24.06 @ 20x), and I believe the Ultra Short 3-20 does as well-- somehow Swarovski let those slide.
Keep in mind that the scopes that tunnel on low power do not seem to be impacted by the patent.
I do not really have any insight on the efficacy of the specific numbers on the website. Typos on websites are very common.
ILya
What I’m really trying to do is to get you to spill the beans if S&B is dropping an uncorked 6-36 in the US around ~Dec ‘25 / Jan 26’. lol
I would cry if they do, I am buying a 6-36 right now and it would be depressing to buy a nerfed version.
That is an interesting point, as the 3-20, while it does not visibly tunnel like the 5-25, does lose just a little AFOV down at 3x, even though it's 24.06 degrees at 20x.
Still interesting to see the selective compliance/enforcement of the Swarovski patent, as several non-European made scopes have a >22 degree AFOV and a high erector ratio but have been on the market for several years now.
I'm holding off trying an S&B 6-36 or 3-18 FFP until I see what 2026 brings in regards to potential patent expiration and full AFOV models hitting the US market. I'm actually more interested in the upcoming 4-24 Razor as I have 4 rifles that would be perfect hosts for them provided the 31ish oz weight estimate is correct.
Damn, I need a scope now though, I just traded my 5-25 and my axmc is scopeless. Its a shame.
Crap. If I was you, I’d buy either a used scope (not a 6-36 S&B), or if new, a black Razor G3 or a NF 7-35 to tide myself over. Something easy to sell if the uncorked version pops up soon.
Do you really think schmidt will drop a un-nerfed version soon? Then this will impact ZCO too since they are also nerfed, maybe TT will stay the same.
I have heard rumblings, but I can’t remember where lol. Typical internet idiot, I am.
But the Swaro patent is supposedly running out in 2026 (end of 2025?)…some people opine it’s a little further away, though (but not much further, like under three years from now).
But hey, whatever you do, don’t buy this model at EO.
Haha, I won't, I decided to get a used ZCO instead. Who knows when the un-nerfed versions will come and if tariffs will raise the prices beyond I would want to pay.
If I remember correctly, there are several patents stacked to the original, so I would not get my hopes up too much. Unless there is another court case or Swaro chooses to not pursue it, there should not be any canges from a legal standpoint for quite a long time.
ILya
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