are we getting robbed,check this out.

[heavy boolitt]

hello, everybody .iwasloading up some test loads for the 7mmRM in162 a-max-imr4831{because ive been having pressure issues with RL-22}in my 7nth edition,it lists
51.7gr start for imr-4831 thru 60.6gr at3000 fps with b.c. of.625 {for the a-max}.
then just for giggles i looked in my hornady vol.II load book published june-1973 it lists
162 hpbt with a b.c. of [hold on to something}.725!!and running the same powder of Imr- 4831
start:60.1gr-68.4gr at 3000 fps
sothen i compared the 139 gr spire point
with the start load of
53.2gr thru 63.5 gr {7nth edition] for 3100 fps.
then looked at the volume II edition.
start charge of 64gr thru [hold on to something]71.4gr book max ,for an incredible 3400 fps. so have the powders changed that much since 1973 or has the case capicity changed or is it the measuring equipment ,or is it the lawyers and manu factures .IF ,it is the powder why wouldn"t they just re-label i as powder XYZ.OR arethey detune ing these to make the new whiz bang mgnums sell,{seemingly to make the old stand-bys lookslow and obsolete] so,just would like you opinions good or bad.and i"d like me sum of those .725 162gr hollow points that they used to make.

 

[Rthur]

Re: are we getting robbed,check this out.

The end users are gettin wise to their optimism. This being on the velocity and the advertised bc numbers.

 

[mavrickarcher]

Re: are we getting robbed,check this out.

I shot some loads this weekend of 48grs of H4831 in a .243 with 100gr bullets. These numbers came out of an old manual, I think the risk of litigation has the power companies scared. It's pretty funny as you see it's not just a small amount but sometimes the max is the start in the old manuals.

I have a 1967 Hornady manual with same load for the 139's. I called and asked one time and was told to get a new manual, but I have shot these loads without issues!

 

[buffybuster]

Re: are we getting robbed,check this out.

The pressure measuring for the new data is from piezo electric transducer which is much more accurate and informative than the Copper Crush method. Loads that were thought safe with the Copper Crush method may have been too close for litigation comfort with the piezo electric method.

 

[X-fan]

Re: are we getting robbed,check this out.

The old books from the 1970's better!

The new manuals and online pressure data is crap and is just a bunch of lawyers protectioning crap back in the day we didn't need no stinking pressure testing crap! Sheeit! everybody that nows anything nos that the big 7 can drive a 162 HBPT to 3400fps Sides my barrel is fast as sheit and maybe get me 3500.

Balstitsics are for Pussies!
Just shoot it in there and the hydrastacttic shock will look after yall.

 

[boltgunluvr]

Re: are we getting robbed,check this out.

Lawyers.....Blood sucking parasites.

 

[Martin55]

Re: are we getting robbed,check this out.

These numbers came out of an old manual, I think the risk of litigation has the power companies scared.

 

[X-fan]

Re: are we getting robbed,check this out.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Martin55</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These numbers came out of an old manual, I think the risk of litigation has the power companies scared.

</div></div>

I think it has to do with the cold hard facts of pressure tested data.
The real old manuals were not developed with pressure gear...Not even copper crushers.

A 7mag 160gr@3400 fps is a bomb waiting to take somebody's head off and is another example of how we do things better today.
Keep in mind that this was an era when we had no idea how fast our load was going and no way to calculate it from ballistics either. We generally bought the manual that told us what we wanted to hear.
Ballistic programs didn't come until near two decades later. My first ($6,000.00) computer thumped and banged for 50 minutes to do the calculation.....I was breathless in anticipation and marveled in wonder...

 

[former naval person]

Re: are we getting robbed,check this out.

And, if you read the old P.O. (pissed off from reputation) Ackley books, the velocities were mostly guess work and impact pendulum predictions. Making an Ackley Imp will increase case life (at the expense of barrel life from the fire forming) but to a much less of a degree than the old man proposed.

 

[SHWILL]

Re: are we getting robbed,check this out.

1. Pressure reading is better
2. Lawyers
3. Lawyers
4. Lawyers

 

[xs hedspace]

Re: are we getting robbed,check this out.

Yes, the lawyers are involved. BUT, I had a batch of RL22 that was much faster than the previous batch--this was maybe 8 yrs ago. Thought it was RL19 mislabeled. And if you notice, the pressure readings in the manuals as the Max loads vary, and I suspect that when the pressures are not consistent, the company picks the one reading they got that was at the SAAMI max, like 52000psi, and declared that as the max load, then list the average psi for that charge. I found the smallest SD of velocities with the load that was listed as the highest psi in the loading manual. Meaning this loads highest reading was at 52000 psi, but the average was closer to this limit, because the SD was smaller.