How to tell if you need Annealing

[Raven 6]

I have been loading for my .338 Edge and noticed this time around the neck is not holding the bullet in place. This is the 4th time reloading these brass and I'm wondering if they need to be annealed or they are trashed?

Thanks,
Mark

 

[jkonzal]

Re: How to tell if you need Annealing

For my precision reloads, I anneal after every second firing. It is quick and easy once you start doing it. I use a torch head on a camp stove gas bottle, spin them with a socket on a cordless drill and let them fall in distilled water.

 

[Raven 6]

Re: How to tell if you need Annealing

Would annealing help with my neck tension problem?

 

[jlow]

Re: How to tell if you need Annealing

The answer is yes. When you fire a round, the case is work hardened which means the amount of spring back at the shoulders and at the neck is changed. A change in the shoulder would affect how much you push to get the amount of headspace you need. So a setting that works before may no longer work. Brass of different degree of work hardening will spring back differently and so different headspace for the same setting.

For the neck, the difference in spring back affect its diameter when you resize. A difference in diameter of the neck will directly affect neck tension. So too much spring back due to work hardening means you will have a larger diameter and so the hold on the bullet will be less.

One thing people do not understand is annealing is a analog process and not an all or none. What I mean is the more you heat the brass (temperature and time), the softer it gets. So if you anneal and don’t do it precisely i.e. in the same spot and to the same degree, you are going to get different degree of annealing and softness and that will give you variability in neck tension. This is the reason why annealing machines sells, it’s not just because its easier.

 

[roggom]

Re: How to tell if you need Annealing

If you edge is used for closer range hunting, then any annealing will be cheaper than tossing the brass. If you are competing at 1000Y then maybe an annealing device.

Is you goal just to prevent the other rounds from unseating while in the mag?

 

[Raven 6]

Re: How to tell if you need Annealing

My goal is to keep a grip in the bullet, but I don't want to cut corners just to do that. If they are scrap I have no problem buying new brass but I would like to extend their life if possible. Just wondering if annealing would do that/

 

[jlow]

Re: How to tell if you need Annealing

Yes, annealing will also soften the neck and reduce your chance from splits. For this purpose, hand annealing is OK as long as you don’t over do it.

With your 338 Edge, if you are just shooting long distance 600 yards plus, and precision shooting go the machine route.

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: How to tell if you need Annealing

I use a method with my brass to tell me when annealing is necessary that seems to work fine. When I fire my brass in my factory chambered rifle I then look at the fired case. When a "constriction" appears on the case neck, making it look like there is a slight roll crimp on the fired case, they get annealed.

It appears to me that my cases "work harden" more near the case mouth than farther down the neck.

Once annealed this phenomena goes away for 3-4 firings before it reappears.

Annealing does pay. I have one batch of cases that have over 40 load/fire cycles and not a single split neck in the bunch since I bought the brass.

 

[RyanMcIntyre]

Re: How to tell if you need Annealing

I anneal only for case life, I have neither the skills nor the necessity to reap any accuracy rewards from it. And with that goal, it is quite successful. On tests with the 22 Hornet, I've found annealing to add about 50% usable life to the case, and when it fails, it tends to do so rather undramatically.

 

[timelinex]

Re: How to tell if you need Annealing

I've never read about annealings effect on accuracy when hand annealing. I was planning on doing it next time I load my 338lm (my first tim eannealing). Am I going to introduce more variation by annealing by hand, rather than just not annealing? Or is the effect not as pronounced as the one poster is making it seem. These rounds are flung 1700+ yards....

As to the original poster.... Instead of throwing them out, why don't you just get a smaller neck bushing. It certainly wont extend brss life like annealing is supposed to, but I can't imagine it being worse than just throwing the brass out.

 

[Raven 6]

Re: How to tell if you need Annealing

Well I thought of getting a smaller bushing, I'm sizing .002 smaller than loaded diameter and don't know if going .001-.002 smaller would solve the problem. I'm thinking and hoping annealing would help.

 

[jlow]

Re: How to tell if you need Annealing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: timelinex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've never read about annealings effect on accuracy when hand annealing. I was planning on doing it next time I load my 338lm (my first tim eannealing). Am I going to introduce more variation by annealing by hand, rather than just not annealing? Or is the effect not as pronounced as the one poster is making it seem. These rounds are flung 1700+ yards....

As to the original poster.... Instead of throwing them out, why don't you just get a smaller neck bushing. It certainly wont extend brss life like annealing is supposed to, but I can't imagine it being worse than just throwing the brass out. </div></div>
Whether your hand annealing will help or make things worse depends on your technique. Remember when you hand anneal, there are a number of variable that can come into play. The first is how close your flame is to the brass (assuming here already that you have a constant flame size and temperature), the second is where you are pointing with that flame i.e. the neck, the shoulder, somewhere in between and whether you can consistently do this. The last part is how long you are annealing.

I am sure some people can do a decent job just like I know some people can shoot one holers at 100 yards, but for most people, being able to control all three variables time after time is next to impossible. The result is you are annealing different parts of the case differently every time. How much variation there is again depends on your technique.

So if the contention that different degree of annealing causes the brass at the neck and shoulder to be soften to different degrees and this in turn affects how your shoulder bump and neck sizing will turn out and these variables in turn affect neck tension and then MV variability and then your verticals, you can see why it is a reasonable conclusion that how precise you anneal can affect your overall precision in shooting. It is hard to escape this logic.

Of course all this relates to precision shooting at long distances and not plinking at 100 yards. Rounds shot at 1700+ yards of course would be much more sensitive to the variables described above.