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What gun do you reccommend for a trainer?

#2
Re: What gun do you reccommend for a trainer?

Depends on how much money you want to put in the rifle.

A lot of the guys on here (most recently including myself) shoot CZ Trainers. The 452/453/455 Models are all great little guns for the money and shoot well out of the box. They also have plenty of aftermarket parts available to customize it, including Manners stocks.

A slightly cheaper option is the Savage series of rimfires. They are also widely popular on here.

But again its just what you wanna pay. Some of the guys shoot Remington 40Xs and Anschutz, but hey have deeper pockets than I :p
 
#3
Re: What gun do you reccommend for a trainer?

What is the price difference between the Savage MK II TR and a CZ 455 Varmit Precision trainer. Is there going to be a big accuracy difference between these two guns and which has a better factory trigger?
 
#4
Re: What gun do you reccommend for a trainer?

As I recall most Savage Mark IIs are in the ~$250 range depending on the model.
The CZ 455 is about $425 stock.

You will have to wait on a response from someone who actually shoots a Savage Rimfire, I do not. But the CZ stock trigger leaves a bit to be desired. I will drop a Timney in mine in the near future.

Accuracy out of the box I would give to the CZ, but again Ive never clocked any time behind the Savage.
 
#5
Re: What gun do you reccommend for a trainer?

The plastic stocks on some of the Mark IIs, at least the ones I have handled, are very, very cheap. Hence the price. I just picked up a Savage Mark II FV SR and had it in a Boyds wood stock before it even got shot. Actually within 30 minutes of picking it up...
 
#8
Re: What gun do you reccommend for a trainer?

What are your expectations, limitaions, and priorities for this trainer? How would you rank the following items:

accuracy
cost
availability
closely mimics your centerfire setup
 
#9
Re: What gun do you reccommend for a trainer?

Im a winchester man and love the old win 52C target guns, I bought a mod 52C re introduction that Zanders had a run made of with a heavy barrel that is my go to tree rat and fun target gun for 50 and 100 yard shooting. It is capable of and I have had some 1" 5 shot groups at 100 yards using wolf MT and high end ammo on bluebird, no wind days when I had a target scope mounted. They can be hard to find and are pricey but well worth the money and you can always get your investment back and sometimes make a buck if you need to get rid of it..
52c003.jpg

photo does not do gun justice, very best
 
#10
Re: What gun do you reccommend for a trainer?

I just want something that I can shoot respectable groups with to see how I am doing shooting, I'm hopeing for .5" 50yard groups and sub MOA 100 yard groups. I'd rank those attributes like this:
Accuracy
Cost
Availibility
Closely mimics my rifle

I'm really liking the CZ's but dont know if I want to spend all the money for a CZ455 VPT. Would it be stupid to go with a CZ 455 Varmit and would that gun shoot as well as the VPT. How are the triggers? Are there any other stocks I could put on a 455 Varmit to make it shoot and feel similar to a VPT?
 
#13
Re: What gun do you reccommend for a trainer?

Like I said, I have a Savage MK II FV-SR, I have a build thread going here that has some input from people you might find useful. One thing I learned in picking out a .22lr trainer was that there was no velocity difference between the 16.5" barrel of the FV-SR and the 22" barrel on the TR or TRR-SR. So why go with the added weight and decrease in dexterity?

 
#14
Re: What gun do you reccommend for a trainer?

I love my cz455 trainer that came in a manners stock. Like everyone says, the trigger is not very good at all, but I ordered a $20 kit from yodave just to see what it would do and I was pleasantly surprised. I thought I would later want the timney, but I am very happy with the trigger now. There is no creep and the pull is right around 1 lb. It passes the bump test, but a full on drop on the butt would set it off, but it is a target gun anyway.

Chances are you will not be happy with the stock any of the savages or cz's come in except the VPT. When you consider the cost of the manners along with the wait, it just makes sense to go ahead and get it with the gun.

Also, Lilja makes drop in match grade barrels for the 455. I have not replaced my barrel yet because the gun is shooting very well with the factory barrel. It will hold just over 1" at 100, and I can ring a 7" steel 9 times out of 10 at 300 yards.

I also have a winchester 52b and absolutely love it too. The winchester is for sure the higher quality gun and probably has a slight edge on accuracy as well. The winchester micromotion triggers that come on the guns are the only trigger you will ever need. I inherited the 52 and only purchased the cz becuase the 52 was set up with an unertl 20x scope for 50' competition and I didn't want to change anything.
 
#15
Re: What gun do you reccommend for a trainer?

Would a 453 varmit shoot as accurate as a 455 VPT? Because in all honesty for a trainer I wouldn't have to have a special stock as long as the 453's are in the same neighborhood of accuracy.
 
#16
Re: What gun do you reccommend for a trainer?

I love my FV-SR, it too went straight into a Boyds stock before I even shot it. The factory plastic stock feels like a toy and was the first thing to go.
 
#17
Re: What gun do you reccommend for a trainer?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pat M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">CZ 453 (set trigger) Varmint, or CZ American </div></div>

Good luck finding one! I searched the whole internet, no one had one. Went straight to the CZ Custom shop. They took my order and emailed me back about an hour later that the 453 is cancelled as of 2013 and they arent making anymore until then
frown.gif
 
#18
Re: What gun do you reccommend for a trainer?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mossyoak79</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just want something that I can shoot respectable groups with to see how I am doing shooting, I'm hopeing for .5" 50yard groups and sub MOA 100 yard groups. I'd rank those attributes like this:
Accuracy
Cost
Availibility
Closely mimics my rifle

I'm really liking the CZ's but dont know if I want to spend all the money for a CZ455 VPT. Would it be stupid to go with a CZ 455 Varmit and would that gun shoot as well as the VPT. How are the triggers? Are there any other stocks I could put on a 455 Varmit to make it shoot and feel similar to a VPT? </div></div>

If accuracy is your highest priority then:

Win 52 B or C Target $700-$1200
Anschutz 64 MPR $1175



CZ 455 VPT $850
CZ 455 Varmint $415

In my experience the Win 52's and Annie 64's are pretty close with a slight edge to the Win. Between the VPT and the Varmint the barreled actions are the same, only the stock is different. CZ makes a good rifle for the money (453, 543, or 455), but even shooting high end ammo the average CZ factory barrel isn't in the same league as an Annie or Win barrel. The CZ 455 does have the ability to swap barrels, and going that route may yield accuracy comparable to the Annie or Win with a Lija or other manufacturer. However by that time you are in the same price range as an Annie or Win 52.
wink.gif


I'm assuming you want a repeater so I've left Win 52D's, Annie 52's and 1903's and Rem 40x's out of the discussion.

There is no "free lunch" in rimfire. To achieve the highest level of consistent accuracy you will pay a premium for both the rifle and ammo. It's up to you to decide what level of accuracy you want and are willing to pay for.
 
#19
Re: What gun do you reccommend for a trainer?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mossyoak79</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Excuse my ingnorance but what does the set trigger do? </div></div>

A Set trigger has a normal trigger pull of a set weight (say 3 pounds), or you can push the trigger forward until it "sets", and this pull is completely different from the above weight. I think on the 453 its usually a pound or more lighter.

I needed to see it the first time to understand, so here ya go:

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/aamu-PAS91Y"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/aamu-PAS91Y" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
 
#20
Re: What gun do you reccommend for a trainer?

I'd recommend buying a Remington bolt action and sending it to Brian Voelker. I have a 541T HB that shoots lights out.

Just another option for you to consider.
 
#21
Re: What gun do you reccommend for a trainer?

^^^^^This. What Bunsen said, I type too damn slow.

Bunsen shoots with us at Conover and he knows what he is talking about. I will further break it down and try not to hurt anyone's moomoo.

A Savage rimfire is a good rifle but may fall short in the accuracy department. Now I know there are lots of guys out there shooting sub-MOA all day long with them and that is great. There seems to be a lot of them out there, but as many as I have seen shoot in very capable hands, I have yet to see one of these go beyond acceptable accuracy. I have seen them come and go in our acid bath we call 22TSC.

CZ rifles are beautiful, well made, very indicative of true centefire appearance. Their form and function is in a class of its own at their price point. The triggers leave a lot to be desired, but that is an easy fix most can perform with a reasonable modicum of mechanical skill. I had a 452 and put the Rifle Basix trigger in, I can't recommend these triggers enough.
They are a cut above the Savage in accuracy. I have personally seen this fact illustrated time and again in the real world at a real competition. You will definitely get your monies worth with a CZ.

High end rifles like the Anschutz MPR, Win 52, Cooper etc are in a class of their own. They are expensive, they are ready to go without all the futzing and fumbling, that Tinker McGee types think is their avenue to some bizzarro world bargain. They are the pinnacle of accuracy in a 22 rimfire. In this case you will be getting what you paid for...accuracy. You won't see a $300 Savage beat an Anschutz unless the guys driving them are at opposite ends of the experience spectrum. That is not to say that a high end rifle will make you an instant force to be reckoned with, but it will improve your scores if you have any semblance of the fundamentals.

I wasted a good bit of money fiddling around with a CZ, until I had actually put enough in it to buy an Anschutz. If a Savage is all you need and can afford then buy one. A rifle that shoots is better than the rifle you can't afford. With that said, buy all you can afford.
 
#23
Re: What gun do you reccommend for a trainer?

I have a Savage Mark II that I bought used. Bought a Manners T4 stock for it when they had the group buy. Added the Rifle Basix trigger. I really enjoy shooting this setup. With a Weaver Cheapo scope I am able to get 1/2" groups consistently at 50 yards with Federal Match regular velocity ammo.

I am thinking about getting a CZ 455 next year. I spoke to a CZ rep and the 2013 models with come standard with the better SST trigger. I like the fact that I can swap barrels in the 455 so I can shoot 17 HMR if I so desire or add a match Lilja barrel to squeak out more accuracy. Also, Manners makes a T4 stock for this model as well.
 
#24
Re: What gun do you reccommend for a trainer?

let me add to the above options the following:

If you can find one, the discontinued Remington 504-T HB is in the "really, really good" league (needs a bit of trigger work, though). Mine is the first .22 I've had that seems to be at home shooting groups at 100, not just 50, yards. I found one gathering dust at a local retailer, and it has been one of my better rifle purchases. They are known to have flimsy bolt handles, though. If you've got the $$ and the patience, the Remington custom shop will build you a Model 547 HB target rifle. I have not had the opportunity to use one, but if it is even on par with the 504-T it's gonna be really nice.

If I had the money to spend, I would be looking at that Anschutz 64 MPR. Really don't think you could go wrong with it.
 
#25
Re: What gun do you reccommend for a trainer?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mossyoak79</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My only .22 is a marlin and it doesn't shoot very well. I'm in the market for a precision trainer that will actually allow me to shoot decent groups and want some options. Any advice? Open to anything. </div></div>I have a Savage with the AccuTrigger that I like very much. It is more accurate than my Ruger 10/22, but a little less accurate than a really high-end .22 target rig would be. It all comes down to how much you are willing to spend. The Savage, like mine and without scope, would run you about 250$.
 
#26
Re: What gun do you reccommend for a trainer?

Have a stock Savage Mark II TR that I find is fun to shoot and gives me lots of "trigger time". I practice breathing and trigger pull using subsonic ammunition and find it shoots fairly well for a stock rifle. This was at 100 yards on a windy Saturday in NE FLorida. Top hole was a cold bore shot. . . . JaxOps
IMG_0029.jpg
 
#27
Re: What gun do you reccommend for a trainer?

Don't forget about the Sako Quads. If you want to duplicate a centerfire tactical rifle you may have it is one of the few .22's that is deep enough thru the action area to fit into a center fire stock. We can inlet M40Al's, A-2's, A-3's and A-5's for them here at McMillans.
 
#29
Re: What gun do you reccommend for a trainer?

I'm really happy with my Savage BVTS. Wood thumbhole stock is much nicer than the cheaper synthetics IMHO. I have been eyeing a CZ scout for my son though.

You cant go wrong really. I now have a place to shoot at my work, so 22 is really good for the budget!
 
#30
Re: What gun do you reccommend for a trainer?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dick Davis</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Don't forget about the Sako Quads. </div></div>

I've had most of the rifles mentioned so far in this thread (CZ, Savage, Remington, Sako, Etc) and in terms of out-of-the-box trigger and accuracy, none have compared to my Sako Quad. The factory stock is lousy but everything else is pretty impressive on them.
 
#31
Re: What gun do you reccommend for a trainer?

I shoot a 513t Remington that regularly prints 1/2 moa at 50 yds (I almost never shoot @ 100 yds). These are repeaters, with decent stocks, triggers are servicable, and with premium ammo will do for training. Some of these are quite accurate and able to shoot alongside most anything, mine will usually go .3s @ 50 from the bench. If your patient I think you could get one for 250-300.

Whatever you choose give "Remington Target" manufactured by Eley a try, this ammo has been the most accurate or tied for the most accurate ammo in every 22lr I've owned. I have dozens of loads that I test with every new 22, and this is truly exceptional. Maybe this little tip can save you a $150 worth of "load development"
 
#32
Re: What gun do you reccommend for a trainer?

I picked up a lightly used CZ 452 varmint from a forum member with all the toys added on (trigger spring, steel base, cheek piece, etc). First impressions were great, the wood was very nice and the machining was also very nice , very little bolt slop. Definitely feels much better than my savage FV 17hm2. At the range, accuracy has been unbelievable with CCI standards. It held better aggregate groups than my built ruger 10/22 at a fraction of the cost. If you can spare a few hundred over a base model savage, then I say get the CZ. This is coming from a die hard Savage fanboy.
 
#34
Dick D said:
Don't forget about the Sako Quads. If you want to duplicate a centerfire tactical rifle you may have it is one of the few .22's that is deep enough thru the action area to fit into a center fire stock. We can inlet M40Al's, A-2's, A-3's and A-5's for them here at McMillans.[/QUOT
DD, How about a great McMiilan A-2, A-3, A-5, for annie MPR 64. I know of 15,that would sell in less than 10 mins, here on the hide,
what you think, armopl8chikin


OP like i have said before started out with savage, great out to 100 yrd, next was CZ 452 great out to 125yrds, picked up used annie MPR 64,
an have not looked back, cz 455 pt (manners stock) $900.00 plus. used MPR 64 $750.00 LET YOU AN ALL THE CZ & SAVAGE SHOOTERS DO THE MATH. not bashing anyones choise, but stateing the facts, no cz or savage going to out shoot, annie's, win 52B, coopers, rem40x.
if money an option i have a cz 455 for fun gun, if sky the limit, 64, 52 . 40x ,cooper. quads, not in any order
Click to expand...
 
#37
sorry guys hit cap lock by mistake,
savage in boyds tact stock, cz455 also in boyds stock, make great trainers,
trainers vs match--- well hell i sould have read post better, 2 different applications.
like i said have a cz 455 that i use for tree rats, an trigger time, annie 64 for match only
 
#39
JonnyHawes said:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pat M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">CZ 453 (set trigger) Varmint, or CZ American </div></div>

Good luck finding one! I searched the whole internet, no one had one. Went straight to the CZ Custom shop. They took my order and emailed me back about an hour later that the 453 is cancelled as of 2013 and they arent making anymore until then
frown.gif
Click to expand...

There's one in my LGS. Almost walked out with it... but it was $500 so I just got he Savage Mark II BV. Shoots real nice.
 
#40
Mossyoak
SST trigger would be a nice touch.
but a 455, with a YO Dave kit, rifle basix trigger,Timmie, would be sweet trainer, like amorpl8chikin said rifle basix great trigger, an Clay is from RB great to deal with, he has always helped us out with door prizes at championship match, let me tell u his triggers are allways 1st to go off prize table, also have one in my APACHIE bulit 260/match rifle sweeettt!!!!
 
#42
Mossyoak
thats what i did, on 455 22lr an 2nd rifle cz 455 22mag.
yea i know could have one gun 2 barrels, but both are set up for single role,
now 22lr has YO dave kit, 22mag has rifle basix trigger, flip a coin, but work fine for me, but like i said rifle basix, great people to work with,
If u are looking to get into shooting quick, cz 455 boyds tacticool stock, aftermarket trigger way to go, just my .02$ worth, willing to wait (who knows when)/on SST 455. the choice is up to you. also check out DIP gun parts, lot of cool upgrades for both cz an savage, if u plan on training past 150 yrds get a 20moa base, trust me on that we shoot out to 211yrds an sometimes 300 yrds for SAG.
we have alot of CZ,s on the line an a few savages, they will both perform just not as tight as higher end match, rifle, But hey fun is fun, shooting is my stress, pain killer, an have just an much fun with my CZ,s as i do with my MPR 64, but when in match zone only trigger i pull is my annie
good shooting an keep/us posted on your outcome.
PS. if you read alot of post u will be quick to fine, match grade ammo, is higher priced, but will get the result better that you are looking for, so not as hi price as some french models on the web will try an make you believe.
 
#45
If it were up to me I would get a CZ
I bought a Savage "tactical" when they first came out and could never get it to shoot as I wanted

Savage TR (2) by usmcchet92_96, on Flickr
first shot fliers that wouldnt go away forced me to sell it and move to a CZ 452.
My CZ 452 I upgraded with a yodave trigger and DIP bottom metal
it was a consistant 1.5 inch gun at 100 and is a pleasure to shoot

CZ452V (4) by usmcchet92_96, on Flickr
When CZ announced their 455 PT with Manners stock I jumped on it
changed the trigger to yodave (feels to be around 1.5 to 2 pounds) replaced the plastic magwell and release with DIP, and put a tactical bolt knob on it
have yet to bed and piller it and the barrel is stock
the gun can and will shoot 1 inch groups but the wind and heat have to be in your favor.

CZ455PT-10-12 (1) by usmcchet92_96, on Flickr
is it a 40X no, is it a Anchultz not even, but the gun cost me 850, another 100 or so for the yodave kit and metal, 400 for the scope, 70 for the rings ..... generally thats less than a stock anchultz and fit the look I wanted
here are some targets I have shot with my 455

11-4-12 (1) by usmcchet92_96, on Flickr


IMG_0117 by usmcchet92_96, on Flickr


IMG_0115 by usmcchet92_96, on Flickr


IMG_0116 by usmcchet92_96, on Flickr


9-30-12 (3) by usmcchet92_96, on Flickr
 
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