Sidearms & Scatterguns What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

#101
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSK-Scharfschütze</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSK-Scharfschütze</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The SEAL's still use it for certain missions, just talked to one of them at my last class.
</div></div>
I spoke w/ one over the phone once! </div></div>

Nice contribution! </div></div>
Listen brother, when you break it down; I don't see how either one of our contributions are that much different?
 
#102
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

The Glock 34. I capacity, NATO cartridge, its cheap, its freaking super accurate, low recoil.

For 500.00 you can have a competition level pistol, cheap enough to throw in your tacklebox, and effective enough to win and IPSC match.
 
#103
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ken226</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Glock 34. I capacity, NATO cartridge, its cheap, its freaking super accurate, low recoil.

For 500.00 you can have a competition level pistol, cheap enough to throw in your tacklebox, and effective enough to win and IPSC match. </div></div>

Maybe with a 35 or 24. 34 would be minor pow pow power factor and you can't compete shooting minor.
 
#105
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

I'll play, Glock 19 is my go to handgun for almost everything. With a threaded barrel it will digest any load I feed her while wearing the osprey. Of coarse elevated night sights are good for clearing the can but also nice for fighting wounded, chances are if I'm using a handgun in battle I'm wounded or forgot about the catching part that goes with pitching. Simple control features, fewest moving parts, ability to work in any environment, lightweight, more accurate than 99% of the folks who say Glock handguns are not accurate, decent capacity and cleaning seems to be optional. I know people will tell you that a 9mm isn't combat effective but I think the Germans proved that wrong long ago. Proper ammunition selection makes caliber choice almost moot now a days. If you can afford it an RMR makes a great companion to the host especially when it's milled in to co-witness the elevated night sights. Disagree if you wish but as big of an improvement to a handgun as an Eotech is to a carbine. The only people who disagree seem to be the ones who have never shot one.
 
#106
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ken226</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That Sevigny (spelling?) guy did ok with his once or twice. </div></div>

Most competitors aren't Super Dave and, unless you shoot all "As", you won't be competitive with a 9mm. You can shoot 9 major, but not with a factory Glock. I agree with your first post though, just not on the IPSC thing. I shoot a G17 with an RMR and plan to use it during steel and 3 gun matches(non sanctioned and not IPSC anyway). Not trying to get into open. G24 is my limited gun.
 
#107
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

For 10MM I vote the S&W 1006&1066
45's I love my '94 P220 and the S&W 4506 which is currently for sale in the classified section. I truly hate to sell that pistol.
Those 3rd gen Smiths are beautiful and built like a brick shit housr
 
#108
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

I have countless rounds through the 3 SW M&Ps I own and I wouldn't carry any other pistol into combat if forced to choose. They eat anything, and even when dirty as can be, they keep on going.

I am a huge 1911 fan, but if I threw my Dan Wesson Valor into a bucket of sand or mud with one of my M&Ps, I'd trust the M&P. You can't go wrong with a Glock, but I'd choose the M&P from an ergonomic standpoint.
 
#109
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Saito</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ken226</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Glock 34. I capacity, NATO cartridge, its cheap, its freaking super accurate, low recoil.

For 500.00 you can have a competition level pistol, cheap enough to throw in your tacklebox, and effective enough to win and IPSC match. </div></div>

Maybe with a 35 or 24. 34 would be minor pow pow power factor and you can't compete shooting minor. </div></div>

Umm, you can in USPSA Production...
 
#110
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

DWM Luger P08 double date: Two world wars, police service, 94yrs of 9mm toggle action mayhem. 'Deutschland! So remind me again what defines "ultimate"? We all know that everyone is going go round and round about Sigs, HKs, Glocks even though all of them are suited for combat and have the records to show it. Besides, when it comes down to combat, pretty sure a pistol is what one uses after the rifle is out of ammo.
100_1119_zps3713acdf.jpg
 
#112
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

Sig 226

I was always a 1911 type as the single-stack fit well in my hand, I felt in real control of the pistol and it gave me great reference points on it for a quick draw/acquisition.

A few years ago my wife wanted to shoot 9mm but was scared of the 45. I picked up a Sig 226 enhanced elite and within a week I practically stopped using the custom 1911 I have.

You did say combat pistol, so here is why I think it fits the bill:

As much as people love the new striker fired pistols the DA/SA with the short reset trigger on the Sig is ideal. Easily able to be cocked, and the DA for the first round isn't rough - slightly harder pull obviously, but smooth. In a combat pistol as far as I am concerned, I want to keep 1 in the chamber and not have to ever worry about it while crawling through the terrain, banging into shit, etc. It's pretty much a safety, without having to manipulate a safety; always ready to fire.

Secondly, the ergonomics and fit of the Sig are somehow between a single stack and a true double; don't know what it is but it blows away the fit/feel of Glocks, Springfield XDs and Berettas.

It's accurate as all hell, 9mm, plentiful parts/mags/aftermarket support, zero recoil, has taken a beating without any issue (I am the official destroyer of gear), is all metal and doesn't need any modification out of the box.
 
#114
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSK-Scharfsch�tze</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: krm375</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont know any military unit still carrying the HK mk23, its a brick. </div></div>
The SEAL's still use it for certain missions, just talked to one of them at my last class.
The German Special Forces still use it, as well as some snipers are equipped with them.
I think some unit in Poland uses the MK23 as well. </div></div>

At Hammelburg I saw only the P8 in use.

Hated the feel of it, could never really get a true handle on it and never did anything special with it. It was actually one of the overall complaints, as with the G36 that while it was technically 'advanced' the ergonomics and useability of it sucked. Don't even get me started on the rifle with the worst cheek-weld/lack of reference for a consistent head position from shot to shot in the world known as the G36.

 
#115
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

the mk23's are no longer in service with NSW they were cut up at CRANE. the mk26 is now in service which is a HK 45c with supressor.

the mk23 hasn't been around for almost a decade
 
#116
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the mk23's are no longer in service with NSW they were cut up at CRANE. the mk26 is now in service which is a HK 45c with supressor.

the mk23 hasn't been around for almost a decade </div></div>

But I know some SEAL units still use them. A guy who was wearing a US NAVY SEAL "Death from a above" T-shirt told me so. He wouldn't admit to being a SEAL cause the unit he's in is so secretive that no regular SEALs know about it. He got recruited from his basic training course to join this stealth SEAL team....
grin.gif
 
#118
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

Too many ingredients and variables in the equation, so I don't know that there is ONE, but I step out with either a USP or P220 in .45, or a P226 in 9mm.
 
#119
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: koz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He wouldn't admit to being a SEAL cause the unit he's in is so secretive that no regular SEALs know about it. He got recruited from his basic training course to join this stealth SEAL team....
grin.gif

</div></div>

This would be funnier if I haven't had people tell me almost the exact same story to my face.
 
#120
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

I incline for the 1911, a custom made model.

Its reliable, wont let you down, a good stopping power, good size, maneuverable, light (depending of the materials) and there's a reason why it has been in use after 100 years.
 
#122
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

I would want a high velocity round (1500fps or more at the muzzle) at or around .35-.40 cal, so a 357 wheel gun with real 357 ammo or a Glock 35 loaded hot with 135g 40 cal or drop in a 357 sig barrel and run 115-125 grains hot. Or better yet, grab one of Robbie’s old 9x25mm 1911's he used to run and push a 115 around 1800fps.
 
#123
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

Lot of factors come into play.
If it was a full out battle I would grab my Beretta Px4 because I have two 20 rd mags and two 17 rd mags.

If someone had a gun to a family members head I would take my XDm 40 cal simply because I know I could send one thru his eye socket if given the chance. My USP 40 is also real accurate but it has 13 rd mags
 
#124
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

XDm 4.5" 9mm.

1. 2 barrels and 27,000 rounds, and not 1 malfunction. Period.
2. 19+1 Mag capacity standard.
3. 4" groups at 25 yds.

Some people prefer .45, but I have not seen a man with a 9mm through his head get up and walk again. just my $.02
The only other pistol I would consider is the the HK P30, but as a combat pistol, the extra 4 rounds are decisive.
 
#125
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

For a combat pistol i would choose the gun that i have the most experience with and am the most comfortable with. For me this would be one of two pistols.
1.A quality full size 1911 in 10mm or .45acp, production or semi production not a full hand fit custom because super tight tolerances lead to a weapon that doesn't fair well in dirty conditions. Familiarization, reliability and knockdown power are the reasons for my choice. The 1911 platform is by far the pistol i am most comfortable with and have put the most rounds through. When defending myself i don't want to think about operating my firearm, i want it to be natural.
2.Springfield XDM 4.5 in .40s&w or .45acp. This is my second choice because i have put thousands of rounds through this platform and i am very comfortable with operating it without a second thought.

Criticism or not these are my choices.
 
#127
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: danb303</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lot of factors come into play.
If it was a full out battle I would grab my Beretta Px4 because I have two 20 rd mags and two 17 rd mags.

If someone had a gun to a family members head I would take my XDm 40 cal simply because I know I could send one thru his eye socket if given the chance. My USP 40 is also real accurate but it has 13 rd mags </div></div>

You can get the 16 round mags for the USP 40 pretty easily, (as long as it is not the compact model). Now the USP tactical .40 with an upgraded trigger, threaded barrel, high sights and a bunch of 16 round mags is a nice package if you have big hands.
 
#128
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taseal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree. this would be what I'd take with me.


in all honesty, it's not as heavy as people think. a loaded mk23 actually weights .2 oz less than a loaded alum 1911
smile.gif


</div></div>
You may want to recheck that, 39 oz for the "boat anchor" vs 34 oz for an alloy full size 1911 both unloaded. Then you have to consider 4 additional rounds! If the MK23 was that great I am sure the Navy would still be using them; as I am pretty certain they are familiar w/ "combat"! </div></div>

I own both, and have weighed both... These are fully loaded weights.

it is lighter
wink.gif


Mk23 - 49.5oz fully loaded
20120827232544.jpg


PT1911AR (Aluminum frame Taurus 1911 with rails) - 49.7 fully loaded
20120827232618.jpg
 
#129
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

The Sig P226 is the best combat pistol on the planet. It is the ultimate in accuracy and reliability. On top of that the ergonomics are excellent.
If you are going in a situation where your life will be on the line then get a Sig and have peace of mind.
 
#131
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

i wont included anything i havent owned here is my list in order
1 hk usp 45 ctv1
2 sig 226/228/229/220
3 sw m&p
4 glock
the hk is the one that sits on my bedside table and goes with me to investigate the bumps in the night.
 
#132
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

MK23 I do like them, but not in the way the writer want's. MK23 is huge and hard to use outside its specs. Everyone in my home loves my USP tactical .45. I carry it with no real problems even my mom and dad shoot it really well. SIG 226 excellent gun and I have carried it in the service and had the option of carrying a Glock. I have big hands so the Glock didn't make the grade and not as accurate as the others mentioned above.
A strictly combat handgun I would probably choose a 2011 STI. 45 cal. and since most of them have hicap mags and once you use too them they will out shoot any factory gun I have seen. The folks who shoot IPSC and go threw hundreds of rounds in a match and thousands of rounds in a season of shooting can't all be wrong.

H&K USP 45 or STI 2011.
 
#134
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

I've fired and carried several different pistols all of which have been issued to military personnel at one time or another.

All have had their strengths and weaknesses.

I am currently issued a Sig P226 in .357Sig and have many hours on the range with thousands of rounds through it.
Never had any issues.

AS has been stated here before, it all comes down to personal preference, what you can use effectively.

For me it the Sig and my back up is a Colt Commander.
I'm familiar with and trust them both to work when I need them.
 
#135
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm no combatant but I've logged thousands of rounds on many platforms. I would say the ultimate is whichever quality pistol fits you and you shoot the best. Glock, SF XD/XDM, S&W M&P, and HK are all extremely reliable accurate pistols. Take your pick. </div></div>

Back in the 70s and 80s we logged an average of 2-3000 rounds a month for practice. You ignore the classic with a 100 years of history that still works exceptionally well (since I carried one on and off duty).

1911 type pistols. I carry mine with an 8 round and since it's something I've done for decades, my reloads are not slow.

Cooper was right, a lot of Spec Operators still use them since they came back to them years ago. IN SoCal during the "practical days", we had a lot of SO shooting with us, they loved it and gosh, they were using 1911 types. But the choice or options in those days were limited. They aren't anymore.

Most of all, people can't fathom the fact that caliber is marginal unless you can place your shots under pressure. Most people can't because they don't invest the time and effort into building a good skill set and practicing. (both dry firing and live ammo).
 
#136
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

I was told that a lot of SF guys in the states carry walther p99 QA side arms. P99 comes in two versions as full size. QA(quick action) and AS (anti stress). I currently own the AS version and I love it. Externally set up like the hk usp with some up grades as it is a striker fire. It was designed by the same man who designed the glock. No safety but has a decocker on the slide. It was designed for soldiers to use. You can tell if there is a round chambered and if its cocked without even looking at it. I think the israeli SF use Glocks though. Me I'll carry what i got.
 
#138
Re: What is the Ultimate Combat Pistol? Make your case

<span style="font-weight: bold">H&K45</span>
Reasoning:

The changeable backstraps and side panels allow the sidearm to be customized to fit the user. H&Ks, as much as I hate to admit it as a Glock fan, are very reliable and accurate. One last plus is the ability to carry cocked and locked like a 1911 or in traditional DA/SA allows the user to decide how best to deploy the pistol.45 ACP because, well does that need clarification?
 
#139
The "Ultimate Combat Pistol" is going to be whatever firearm you are most comfortable with; bottom line. I own Beretta, Colt, Glock, HK, Ruger, SIG, & S&W pistols and love them all for different reasons. I believe someone made reference earlier to the proper tool for the proper job and think that is highly logical and the underlying reason why I own a variety of pistols. Having said that if I could only choose one pistol to serve as my combat pistol to defend myself and my family I believe I'd bring my SIG P226 MK25 and all of my Mec-Gar 18 round magazines. I'd take my SIG for a number of reasons but I believe the most important is that I shoot better with my SIG P226 MK25 than with any other pistol I own. 9mm is very manageable, 18 round magazines are generous, and I'm not military so I won't be shooting NATO ammunition. Many people don't fully understand ballistics or initial vs. secondary wound channels. I'd direct these people to view YouTube and have them watch some videos by Brass Fetcher. I'd be more than satisfied carrying a 9mm pistol with the correct ammunition.
Of all the pistols I own or have owned I will definitely be picking my SIG P226 MK25 as my ultimate combat pistol. I own a SIG P229 Elite Dark .40S&W as well and while I actually like that pistol a little more than my MK25 I am far more accurate with the MK25 and can hold more ammo.
The only other pistol I'd like to reference in this response is the Glock 17/19/34. I am also a fan of Glock and have owned quite a few of there pistols. Awhile back I decided to sell most of my Glocks to purchase SIG pistols as I had developed a preference for them and honestly was a little bored. I kept three of my Glocks and will not part with them, one a Glock 17, two a Glock 19, and three a Glock 20SF. I cannot shoot a Glock nearly as accurately as I can shoot a SIG, even with upgraded sights (Heinie, Warren Tactical, etc). I kept the two 9mm because of their amazing magazine capacity and interchangeability. I kept the 10mm because its a great gun, not many manufacturers make 10mm pistols, and there are so many aftermarket parts for Glock. One thing I find remarkable about this Glock pistols is there loose tolerances which pretty much allow them to operate through anything and the fact that they are so easy to clean. I'm a little OCD when it comes to cleaning so it takes me a good 30 min to 1hr to process a SIG pistol to my standards. I can process a Glock in less than a quarter of that time.
Best of luck and safe shooting!
 
#141
9mm / CZ 75 , Its been field tested and proven reliable, effective and accurate and holds lots of those little flat shooting slugs.

.45 / HK USP , Tactical or HK45 depending on what fits the best. Easily suppressed and durable as hell.
 
#143
Mine is a 1911, Old John did a hell of a job and the fact that it served as long as it did and appears to be making a comeback with Uncle Sam's specwar groups says quite a bit. On another note I carry a G21, G17, G26 and a P226... depending on dress code and whim. :)
 
#144
I can't believe there are this many fans of the Mk23 out there. I can't remember seeing one for almost 15 years. Back then they struck me as more of a collectors item or a specialized/curiosity item anyway. With it's weight and size, I never really thought it was practical for much of anything. I always assumed the P226 was much more widely used by SEALs than the Mk23.
 
#145
elephantrider said:
I can't believe there are this many fans of the Mk23 out there. I can't remember seeing one for almost 15 years. Back then they struck me as more of a collectors item or a specialized/curiosity item anyway. With it's weight and size, I never really thought it was practical for much of anything. I always assumed the P226 was much more widely used by SEALs than the Mk23.
Click to expand...

They are massive pistols and definitely not for everyone.
 
#146
Too many good choices these days. My hands are not big enough for the usp and 1911 s are great if they are custom made and reliable but single action carrying cocked and locked is a potential liability. So among the many good choices that are double action like Glock, USP compact Sig, Springfield and Smith and Wesson I choose FNP tactical 45. Very reliable can be double action or carried cocked and locked, 15 rounds that fit avg sized hand, tends to have less muzzle flip for double taps, already milled for a RMR Trijicon which rides on my slide, already threaded to accept my Sinencerco suppressor and very accurate. I am an OK shot not an expert and can still put a couple hundred double taps into 2 inches at 15 yards and sometimes group into an inch at 25.
 
#147
I didnt buy the S&w M&P for nothing. I did a lot of research on this very subject. Came down to the Glock or the S&W Glock clone. I chose the S&W. My criteria was a comfy, high capacity, quick takedown, ergonomic gun. Since both the Glock an M&P fit the bill, I went and picked them both up. the M&P felt better, done. 17+1 capacity, super easy field strip, light, accurate and reliable. What more can you ask for?
 
#148
Any of the new HK's. I like the HK45T, HK45CT, P30L if you favor capacity over bullet weight. For me, its all about reliability and HK is the champion in this corner. The new guns score on ergs too. The USP line is certainly proven.
 
#149
I wouldn't be surprised if there were some SF's carrying a STI 2011. Maybe not in 40 S&W, but I like the cartridge more than the others for it's versatility. I won a B stock American Handgunner World Shootoff steel title using 115 PF loads and have shot 135 grain Corbons at 1350 fps.

Truthfully a STI Edge 2011 or the SVI is the easiest to shoot full size pistol around. And yes I've shot and competed with many of the full size pistols. They just don't do it for me!

The only time the one in the pic has malfunctioned was when a primer was put in backwards, probably 10,000 rounds through it. I've got more rounds through 3 STI's than most people shoot in a lifetime and could count the malfunctions on one hand, which were from bad ammo.

 
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#150
Everyone complains about the size and weight of the MK23 while praising the 1911, but they are essentially the same size and my MK23 is 3 oz. lighter than my Series 80 Gold Cup (empty). Of course, the double-stack MK23 is thicker than the 1911, but otherwise the only difference in size is due to the longer barrel on the MK23. I've been concealed-carrying one recently on occasion, just because I can, and greatly prefer carrying the MK23 to the steel 1911.
 
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