Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've read this thread in it's entirety and considered all the positions as rationally and objectively as I possibly can. Yet I still walk away with a very disconcerting feeling.
We are divided, at almost hopeless odds and extremely dysfunctional as a Nation, even as a community as 2A proponents. So much to the extent that we are a breath away from sliding back into the abyss of civil unrest.
A couple thoughts I can't get over are :
a. THis Dorner character is tragic individual and head- case that encapsulates our societal malaise to a disturbing "T"
b. No sane individual condones what he did- Period. So, regardless of his purported "justifiable" motivations, which there could be, he wrote his own ticket to hell.
c. Our society is SICK of being abused by the Just-US System which the now alarmingly militarized Boys in Blue blindly obey, willingly comply with and protect with near impunity- despite what they might claim otherwise.
The responses on this thread are emblematic of just how some LE types(used to be policemen) are indoctrinated by the system or the system itself in it's militarized form appeal to their predilections for control and dominance. The responses from certain clowns defending the actions of their "brothers" shooting innocent folks, referring to others on this thread as "sheep" or "savage" and "tin foil hatter" is proof of the level of their indoctrination and willing compliance. What is most disturbing is they either do not know it or won't admit it. Their training is about putting a "suspect" of which all are on the defensive. The boys on this thread got it down to an art.
c. On the other end of the spectrum we have the general pop cheering this head case on in killing other people. Totally jacked up and indefensible.
d. It is all about protecting the system, those in it and who serve it. Which is why the pathetic LA PD essentially admitted that they were committing most all of their resources to capturing their fellow miscreant.
e. We live in a society where it is "us" against "them". You have the system, those in it and those that serve it, then there is the rest of society- All by design.
Finally slapchop- you're tool without remedy. You and your fellow tool wes126 whom surprisingly hasn't showed his "ass" on this thread are exactly the types that shoot -up innocent old ladies ,lawyer -up and claim their own innocence. Then call to "burn that M-Fer out" and justify it because he "broke the law"....while breaking the law themselves.......
coloshooter is probably headed down the same path if he isn't careful despite what his sometimes shift partner claims otherwise.
Oh and um finally - before you "Law Enforcement" officers dispense with your smear campaign to discredit my points, think again. Although I do not draw a paycheck, I volunteer as Reserve Deputy Sheriff in a small County here in Texas, full of gang-bangers. I see it from both sides.
</div></div>
I'm not here to smear you.... In fact I do have to say that your post is one of the better thought out and well written of the entire lot with few exeptions. If you really are a Reserve you have my respect because I would not deal with the BS and department politics without getting paid but you have to understand how I feel being attacked and lumped in with the minority of bad cops out there. You should know most of us are stand up guys trying to do right by people but sometimes bad things happen when you have milliseconds to respond to a percieved threat. Put most of these shooters, CCW holders, and general gun guys from this thread into a shoot no shoot situation where a guy pulls a cell phone out of his waist band in low light conditions and I'm sure the great majority would react the same way as the trained LEO's with few exceptions. Cops can't be superheros we don't have any faster reactions then any other humans and we can die unlike the comic book heros. Having to go to another funeral for a friend and fellow Officer is not something I'd like to have to do again but I'm sure I'll be attending several more in my career.
As a Reserve do you go arrest someone just because someone without perfoming some sort of investigation or do put the facts together before deciding what actions you will be taking? That is all I was asking here is to wait till the facts come out. I never defended anyone and never said the Officers were right EVER! We may soon find out there was more to it or find out it was a total fuck up. If it is found to be the latter the Officers will likely be terminated and won't be keeping their jobs contrary to popular belief. DA's around here like to charge cops too so if Cali is anywhere like liberal Colorado has become that might happen.
As a Reserve Deputy I'd expect better of you then to call me out as someone that would shoot up innocent old ladies just because I say not to rush to judge before more info is out there or calling some of the biggest cop bashers out telling them if its so bad get involved and change it. I have already stated the sheep comment was in a sarcastic tone as many on here go on as "mindless drones claiming all cops are dirty with info from the same media sources that claim hi-capacity magazines are bad. I mostly used to get a rise from the targeted posters much like things the great majority of other posters have said to me. If you also notice my reply to USMC02xx was a much more even tone because the man was not outright attacking me and actually came off as a reasonable person that seemed as if he actually willing to listen rather then to just call me a dirty pig. The rest of the guys here have been more hostile just kept wanting to point out more incidents to try to make all LEO's (including yourself as a Reserve) look bad just like the Dems here did to make those evil standard cap magazines look bad the last two days.
To say that the Police are militarized shows a total lack of experience as a Reserve and makes me question if it really is true but I'll continue to believe you because maybe your small agency is different then my large one.... I can not wear BDU's as a uniform option and have to wear class A and B uniforms because BDU's and baseball caps look too intimidating to the public. Historically the Police are usually out gunned and it takes incidents like the Hollywood Bank Robbery/Shoot out before the Police catch up to the bad guys were coming across. It took incidents like the one in Hollywood before patrol rifles and armored bearcats started showing up in Police forces. We still don't wear hard armor on every call because it looks scary even though there are criminals out there armed with weapons that can easily defeat my concealed soft armor. Right now my boss is changing the rules that we are guilty untill proven innocent because everyone they have wrongfully fired has gotten their jobs back after the 100% civilian civil service board and or the courts (also no cops there) over turned several terminations (just FYI all the ones who deserved it were still shit canned). The real problem is the people put in charge of the Police forces. They push stats, stats, stats, stats and more stats even though any real street cop knows stats are shit in this job. Officers then start trying to get those stats so they can get promoted and bad stops are made people are upset but the Chief is happy because so and so wrote 100 tickets and got 20 crack pipe arrests. Others like myself and ColoradoCop get to pretty much go nowhere with our jobs because we refuse to go treat the public like that and continue to answer calls and mess with the real criminals instead. Yet, because I wear a badge I'm instantly a bad guy to many posters on here.
I have to agree this thread has been very disconcerting with the people pretty much supporting the gunman and others that have no respect for any LEO. It would just be nice if there was a more respectful tone towards the LEO members of this site because like everyone else we're gun guys, pro 2nd amendment and if you ran into us at the range you'd probably never guess we are cops unless we told you. There is a us vs them attitude and it really goes both ways. I'd rather be on the same side as the rest of you fighting for our 2A rights as a collective group of shooters / gun owners in these uncertian times rather then arguing about who's is bigger.
As for buring him out on purpose.... I don't know. To be honest I have not even bothered to read about any of it since it happened so take this with a grain of salt. (This means I'm not defending anything as I don't know if they did it on purpose or not). IN MY EXPERIENCE gas cansisters burn hot and can start fires. We have had inidents in my city where tear gas canisers have started fires and they were not set on purpose. With a guy like Dorner who has shown he has no issues killing ANYONE you don't want to rush in and put out the fire as I'm sure he'd have killed the firemen too. So your option is to wait it out and see if he will come to you. Who knows though.... I wasn't there maybe there was some gas and a match around.
