Heat? Fouling? What caused my groups to open up?

[lte82]

Shot a couple of 5 shot groups at 300 with the 6.5 creedmoor from a bipod / rear bag setup. First group around .3 moa, the second around .4 moa. (I moved my scope .1 mil down and left on the second group which is why poi changed)



The third group printed about .5 moa the first four, then threw a flier about 1 1/2" high. Still maybe .6-.7 moa overall.

The fourth group was strung about 3" vertically.

The fifth group I stopped after three shots as my group was more of a 1 moa pattern and about 1 1/2" higher than my starting groups poi.

Now I shot these all without about 10 seconds between shots so the barrel was getting hot. I also noticed a large amount of copper fouling when I looked down the bore. Also the center of poi was creeping vertically with every group.

Is that just a lack of the barrel being broken in, did the barrel get too hot, or maybe the fouling throwing it off? Mirage maybe from the barrel causing poi shift and bad groups?

 

[Killswitch Engage]

how many rounds on the barrel? if these were the first shots from a new barrel then it will quickly copper foul a new barrel especially if your running a string fast like that.

 

[lte82]

I have about 75 rounds through it now.

 

[silver-duck]

Iam having the same thing happen with my LRP 6.5 CM.The barrel gets hot way to fast. I have tried 9 types of ammo. I have a shilen barrel coming but I would like to know. I have tried 45-60 seconds between shoots also.

 

[Dougy308]

Copper fouling (cruddy bore) was the issue when mine opened up that way. A little foam cleaner down the barrel and few patches did the trick.

 

[bluto77]

I thought there was a level of copper fouling that was actually good for the barrel to have. There was a big thread about a few months ago. It made such a lasting impression on me that I stopped cleaning the copper out of my barrel after every trip to the range, and now do it about every 300 rounds and powder fouling about every 100 rounds. And "clean" very lightly when doing the powder fouling.

 

[DanSavage]

What is the brand and contour of your barrel?

 

[silver-duck]

Now my barrel is plugged and filled to the top with Kroil oil and I will let it soak all night. I am going to run some patches thru it in the am and go to the range and do some "slow firing"Maybe I have over cleaned it?

 

[elfster1234]

The one thing I have learned shooting with the old timer bench rest boys @ the 600yard range on the other side of town is........... each rifle is different. One rifle / shooter will love to shoot full of copper and will never be cleaned EVER..... the next rifle / shooter will need to be cleaned with each trip to the range and will shoot lights out until about 60rounds down the tube.... rifles are like women... they are really picky, each one is different, and each one loves to bitch when you don't treat them the way they like to be treated. You just need to finger and prod each one until you figure out how each one likes it. Clean or dirty. Come on guys! You know what I'm talking about!!

As with my AR's.... Most of them like it dirty, but my new RRA ATH... she likes to be cleaned up once in a while.

I thought there was a level of copper fouling that was actually good for the barrel to have. There was a big thread about a few months ago. It made such a lasting impression on me that I stopped cleaning the copper out of my barrel after every trip to the range, and now do it about every 300 rounds and powder fouling about every 100 rounds. And "clean" very lightly when doing the powder fouling.

 

[lte82]

What is the brand and contour of your barrel?

Factory savage 26" fluted bull barrel. Not sure on the exact contour.

 

[lte82]

Well I already soaked it down and scrubbed all of the fouling out of it. It was really dirty. Took me a solid 30 minutes to get it clean. My rem 700 with about 300 rounds down it took about 5 minutes for comparison.

Ill go back out and try it again Sunday and see what happens. I sure would like it if this gun likes a lot of copper... it would be a lot easier just to shoot it and put it up!

 

[lte82]

I thought there was a level of copper fouling that was actually good for the barrel to have. There was a big thread about a few months ago. It made such a lasting impression on me that I stopped cleaning the copper out of my barrel after every trip to the range, and now do it about every 300 rounds and powder fouling about every 100 rounds. And "clean" very lightly when doing the powder fouling.

Link me? I suck at searching on this site...

 

[RyeDaddy]

Ah, Savage... I've owned 3 Savages, and all 3 were just like yours till about 250 rounds. They fouled FAST when new and the accuracy dropped off just as fast. After about 250 rounds of cleaning all the time they stopped fouling as bad and stayed accurate much longer. Just keep shooting and cleaning all the copper out and you will see the problem go away. It's a PITA, but Savages don't come with custom hand-lapped barrels.

Remingtons seem to break in much faster, I would guess that hammer forging their barrels leaves a smoother bore than Savage's button rifling process.

 

[sib1948]

All my bolt rifles clean easily after 2-300 rounds with a few patches of BoreTech Eliminator (1-2 wet patches followed by dry patches until white-usually 5-7). Follow with 1 lightly oiled patch with Kranoil. Then clean and grease bolt and mop chamber with 20 gauge chamber mop (308 & 338) to remove and leaked cleaner or oil. Always use a correct bore guide and would never do any barrel brushing a or scrubbing unless these procedures fail, which has never happened. Run all the patches from the chamber down, remove them and withdraw the cleaning rod. I do use a few passes of a bore snake for my 22s only​!

I usually shoot 3-4 5 round groups per 20 minute session. Usually have cold bore shift but otherwise consistent groups unless wind becomes a factor.

 

[jtrax]

Kroil can clean carbon fouling. However, it has been shown that it will not clean out the copper fouling. A dedicated copper fouling cleaner is needed. Bore Tech Eliminator and Bore Tech Cu2+ or KG12 are great for copper fouling. Bore Tech Eliminator will get both carbon and copper. Attack the carbon first then the copper. Then 1 patch of Kroil, then dry patch out. Mop chamber. Lightly grease bolt lugs. Then start shooting again. Find what each rifle prefers for cleaning cadence. Some rifles actually shoot better clean. Some don't.

 

[Sniper260]

That factory barrel is most likely heating up quickly and unevenly. Like many have said every barrel likes different things... try running a few patches down it and see if it improves... it may not like too dirty of a barrel... keep track of your barrel conditions to narrow it down to what that particular barrel likes.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

I will tell you this from my experience of shooting the creedmoor for a over a year and a half. This caliber doesn't take to the no cleaning voodoo like a 308 does. I tried it going into it with my rock barrel and its a no go. I clean/strip my barrel after every 50-100rds. It will go longer but you can see the light copper streaking after much more then that. It's the price you pay for more performance cartridge with pressures and speed. If you use a good cleaner like wipe out, boretech eliminator or butche's and clean it regularly you will have much better results overall. Use your head and use the proper cleaning gear and you'll be fine.

 

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

My question is related so I'm positing it here: Was the barrel broken in? Or did this particular barrel require it? If not, why not? Still working on learning some things along these lines.

Would lapping the barrel help with the copper fouling?

Regards,

Josh

 

[6brshooter]

Mirage can do some funky things, especially mirage off the barrel. On my br rifle i found a mirage band helped bigtime. Shooter fatigue, heated barrel, and mirage from barrel inducing flyers are all suspect. My lrp sucked to clean, but it always shot good. It would throw down 3/4 moa at 1k in factory trim. As far as 6.5 cm needing to be cleaned more ymmv, i find it does just as good as my other cartridges. Every caliber shoots better with 25 rd on a clean barrel compared to 250 since it was cleaned.