Annealing machine home build help, need servo/motor advice

[goose_boy]

Seeing several good home made annealing machines built, I'm sure we have some smarter than me fellas around here.

Outlines of the idea, old saw blade or aluminum round piece, on a center bearing, with about 6 posts downward near the center. Idea being a servo or motor that controlled via a an interruptor like a blinker switch or rheostat will bump the posts 60 degrees every X seconds, putting a new piece of brass in the flame to anneal for X seconds. The 60 degree separation should prevent next or last brass from starting or continuing to be annealed in my estimation. I have the whole mechanics completed in my head, but I'm a little shy on the electric/motor/servo side. I imagine the easiest will be a rheostat with a 12v power inverter, but I'd need a 100% duty cycle motor of around 50rpm tops in my quick estimations. What do you guys who know these parts better than me recommend for a motor, power supply, and rheostat/interruptor, which method to go with as well? Thanks guys!

 

[High Binder]

Seems to me as though you're building in a lot of unneeded complexity. I'd skip the pausing action and simply slow the rate of turn, seems much simpler. Remember: KISS

 

[No1]

I can set you up with a Harmonic Drive RH14D-3002, 50rpm @24VDC. I use these to move a 22# load, so they are more than adequate for turning your saw blade.
Only because I have them available I would hook it up to a relay timer like these:
Fuji Electric Timer Relays Mini-DIN (ST7 Series) Overview
I actually don't have the Fuji, but they are much cheaper(1/3 the cost) than the ones I do have.
Check out Electronic Components and Accessories | MPJA.COM for cheap power supplies. They may also have a relay timer that will work for you too.

 

[goose_boy]

Seems to me as though you're building in a lot of unneeded complexity. I'd skip the pausing action and simply slow the rate of turn, seems much simpler. Remember: KISS

Agreed, I think this is a very simple design though and could produce very precise and uniform results. Instead of variable entering/exiting flame heat, you have a quick in, set time in flame, and quick out. Viewing youtube home made annealing machines, I'm not the first to think it up and theirs seem very successful. It's just as easy as building a slow rotation machine as well.

No1 - I will check those parts out and PM you for pricing once I decide what I want to go with, I still have lots of research to do but I'll keep you in mind.

 

[pell1203]

I built one about ten years back and wound up using the following components for power/motor/control parts:

1. Recycled desktop PC power supply (about $3 from a PCRecycler) to provide the 12V feed to the DC motor
2. 12V DC motor from Grainger's (Dayton Permanent Magnet DC Gearmotor, Model 2L009, 30 in-lbs torque, 1/125th HP, with a gear ratio of 394:1).
3. Variable Rheostat control - salvaged burner adjustment control from a junked electric stove

Good luck to you.

 

[427Cobra]

Contact Jmorris, he sells the wheel and plans for 50 bucks, mine works great

 

[goose_boy]

How about a redneck mix it up, anyone ever use a windshield wiper motor, or have any reasons why it wouldn't work? Low rpm high torque, 12v, easily available cheap. Sure I could contact Jmorris, and have it planned out for me, but this is my winter indoor project. I intend it to be fun, reliable, and cheap as can be mostly with scrounged parts.

 

[427Cobra]

For the 308 family of cases a 3/8 drive 1/2 deep socket and a Dewalt in a dark room works great, I have less than 150 in my Jmorris machine, I used a PWM controller and a 120vac to 12vdc converter, the PWM controller sets the dwell time.

 

[Jumper]

I can set you up with a Harmonic Drive RH14D-3002, 50rpm @24VDC. I use these to move a 22# load, so they are more than adequate for turning your saw blade.

Harmonic drive? As in Strain Wave Gear reduction? I might be interested. Link?

 

[No1]

Harmonic drive? As in Strain Wave Gear reduction? I might be interested. Link?

yes, here
Products | Actuators | RH Mini Series DC servo actuators :: Harmonic Drive LLC

 

[Jumper]

yes, here
Products | Actuators | RH Mini Series DC servo actuators :: Harmonic Drive LLC

Cool! About 10yrs ago I was looking at using harmonic drives for a custom pan-tilt camera positioner in a vehicle. They were the perfect solution but had to go with a less expensive option. How they work is fascinating. A little overkill for an annealer but why not? Sorry for the thread hijack. Back on topic -

 

[former naval person]

Don't know if the quick in and quick out will give more accurate heating unless you have flames from both sides. The constant rotation devices tend to spin the cases to even out the heat. JMHO

 

[goose_boy]

Don't know if the quick in and quick out will give more accurate heating unless you have flames from both sides. The constant rotation devices tend to spin the cases to even out the heat. JMHO

I do plan to have heat from 2 sides. I have also thought about a rotating table, but think dual torches will be easier and just as effective.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

Tag for later info...

 

[jmorris]

Best place to buy one is zorrotools.com

This is about as simple as they get.

 

[427Cobra]

Works good, lasts long time!

 

[Sniper Uncle]

Best place to buy one is zorrotools.com

This is about as simple as they get.

Stupid question jmorris, is this a variable speed motor?



Cheers,
Tim
The Right to Keep and Bear Arms Shall NOT be Infringed

 

[goose_boy]

Pretty much what I'm going for Jmorris. I saw another one that a guy got a little fancy, had a case feeder activated by the arm on the motor.... I might build it to either be upgraded later or just do that too. I suppose I might as well put some time into it and make it perfect, as I really don't need to anneal that bad. I mostly would just like to, and it will hopefully remedy some cabin fever.

 

[427Cobra]

Stupid question jmorris, is this a variable speed motor?



Cheers,
Tim
The Right to Keep and Bear Arms Shall NOT be Infringed

thats what the PWM controller is for
MX033 - DC PWM Motor Speed Controller 15 Amp - Assembled & Tested

 

[Rprecision]

I am building one as we speak I will post what I come up with

 

[427Cobra]

The cool thing about a PWM controller is full torque is always available no matter the dwell/speed.

 

[triceratops3]

I think I'm gonna try to build one sometime this winter too. goose, I think I've seen the one your talking about. I believe he also had a disk that spun under the case to rotate it in the flames.

 

[goose_boy]

I think I'm gonna try to build one sometime this winter too. goose, I think I've seen the one your talking about. I believe he also had a disk that spun under the case to rotate it in the flames.

Yup you saw the same one I'm thinking of. Quite the setup, simple and ingenious. I'm gonna study that video some more, the guy that built that is probably some kind of engineer.

 

[No1]

This is about as simple as they get.

I had forgotten that you had the motor in constant motion. Negates the need for the timer I posted earlier.

 

[arnie19]

This place has motors and other stuff pretty cheap at times . Surplus Center

 

[427Cobra]

I had forgotten that you had the motor in constant motion. Negates the need for the timer I posted earlier.

IMHO you still need to regulate the time the brass is in the flames, that the end result is properly annealed brass

 

[No1]

Yes, and that happens by regulating the motor speed.

 

[jmorris]

Pretty much what I'm going for Jmorris. I saw another one that a guy got a little fancy, had a case feeder activated by the arm on the motor.

That one was likely my original build of this machine.

The one above is a video a fellow sent me after he put one together using my "blade".

This is the album on the build.
Annealer Photos by jmorrismetal | Photobucket

There are other machines built with the same part in this thread. Some of them have been built with rotaters but I haven't seen the need.
finished the auto annealer today

 

[jmorris]

Stupid question jmorris, is this a variable speed motor

Yes, it is a DC motor you can get fancy controllers but on mine I just have a dash light dimmer knob out of an '86 RX 7 to adjust down the voltage from a 12v transformer for a dead answering machine.

 

[RJN]

Tag for when I get off my ass and this computer.

 

[diego-ted]

Just finished mine this weekend, I have about 4 hours and $120 in it. I might work on the fit and finish but then again I may not!! LOL

Diego

Click on image for video