If you ordered the group buy barrel, that is a shouldered barrel and will not work with the nucleus specific Barloc that was $50 on ARC. Fortunately, it will spin right up into the action.
Hands on Origin/Nucleus at SHOT?
- Thread starter TimeWillTell
- Start date
Right, but the question then obviously becomes is that render accurate in regards to what will be shipped? Is what will be shipped a Nucleus-specific shouldered barrel BarLoc or is it a Nucleus-specific pre-fit barrel BarLoc?
Like many, I was under the impression the Nucleus-specific BarLoc that was/is posted on the ARC website was for use with a barrel that had a turned shoulder specifically for use with the BarLoc/Nucleus combo.
It doesn’t necessarily matter to me either way, but clarification would be beneficial for everyone, I think.
I do not envy Josh and Ted right now.
Can I ask what made you think the $50 barloc came in the shouldered model? It would make a whole lot if sense if it was was offered in both, but I completely missed that if it's the case.Right, but the question then obviously becomes is that render accurate in regards to what will be shipped? Is what will be shipped a Nucleus-specific shouldered barrel BarLoc or is it a Nucleus-specific pre-fit barrel BarLoc?
Like many, I was under the impression the Nucleus-specific BarLoc that was/is posted on the ARC website was for use with a barrel that had a turned shoulder specifically for use with the BarLoc/Nucleus combo.
It doesn’t necessarily matter to me either way, but clarification would be beneficial for everyone, I think.
I do not envy Josh and Ted right now.
At this point, I'm kinda glad that I didn't have the extra funds to order a barrel at the time I put my deposit down on the Nucleus. Now I can wait until all of this is sorted out and let you guys be the test subjects. Worst case scenario for me is that I can spin on a Rem-Age barrel that I have setting here if all else fails.
It made sense to me at the time that since it was being offered at $50 that the nut was not included, and the only thing needed beyond the normal action would be the clamp and communication with Josh/whomever that you needed a barrel cut (shouldered) for the Nucleus-specific BarLoc. Maybe that was too much of an assumption, but that’s the way I understood things at the time of ordering, and it appears I wasn’t alone in that regards.
Additionally, Josh’s price for the Nucleus-specific BarLoc is the same and I believe he has said that if you ordered that option from him he’s turning a shouldered barrel with a longer tenon to use with the Nucleus-specific BarLoc.
In any case, I’m not in any way worried about what shows up. It will all work, and if it’s something different than what I want I’ll soon change it on the next barrel.
Bohem I'm sorry that description is not clear to me. Can you tell me if my order (ID is #1995.) For three barrels (PVA_PFT_BHA) will require a barloc? My understanding when I ordered them was all it had to do was torque these onto the Action to 75 foot-pounds with the soon to be available action wrench. Should these require a barloc I would like to get that added to my order while now rather than hold up the build later.
Funny how logic and assumptions can vary so far in the same situation. I thought the $50 barloc was the barrel nut version because the rendering shows the nut and the retail price is $150, same as the non nucleus specific barrel nut BL, and $30 more than the shouldered BL set-up.
Just going to throw this out there, possible that ordering the $50 barloc from ARC gets you the barrel nut version in the rendering and ordering from PVA with it as an add on to a barrel for $50 gets you the shouldered version and sets up the barrel to work with it. Best explanation where everyone is right.
I ordered from ARC on the assumption I'd be getting the barrel nut, barloc, and recoil lug specific to the nucleus shown in the rendering. Don't really understand the interest everyone has with the shouldered version. I thought the barrel nut version would prove to be wildly more popular. If you don't want the savage prefit it makes sense to just get a shouldered prefit and call it done. But again, all speculation...time will tell.
I ordered from ARC on the assumption I'd be getting the barrel nut, barloc, and recoil lug specific to the nucleus shown in the rendering. Don't really understand the interest everyone has with the shouldered version. I thought the barrel nut version would prove to be wildly more popular. If you don't want the savage prefit it makes sense to just get a shouldered prefit and call it done. But again, all speculation...time will tell.
That very well could be the case - it wouldnt require any pieces that arent already being built, so it makes sense.
I too ordered the barrel nut barloc and savage prefit just because it looked like the only way to get the cartridge I wanted. However, if I knew it was possible, I wouldve gone with the shouldered barrel and barloc - Aesthetically its just better IMHO, and it makes barrel changes slightly quicker.
I think you may be exactly right on the difference.
I prefer the shouldered BarLoc setup for the aesthetics and the ability to use a “standard” contour while still being able to easily swap the barrel with nothing more than gauges and a small torque wrench.
Honestly, I’m good with either type, but can understand why someone might have strong preferences for one or the other.
I’m pretty certain I’ll wind up with at least one of each which is ideal, IMHO. I’ll be able to use the contour I’m used to and I can also buy an off-the-shelf prefit and be able to install it myself should the situation arise that I need a barrel done quickly.
Like I said, I’m good either way. I’ve got two coming from Ted along with an action, and an action and shouldered BarLoc coming from Josh.
If nothing else, clarification would head off any histrionics that may develop as questions arise in the future.
I should think it's most important to make sure you get the barrel you want (savage vs. shouldered). It's a matter of swapping out or buying a chamfered washer or barrel nut for the front piece of the barloc to get it matched to whatever barrel you end up with.
If you didn't order a BarLoc setup then it just gets torqued in place against the shoulder in the barrel. No different from any other shouldered barrel installation.
If you ordered ones for a BarLoc then the BarLoc gives you the preload you need.
Guys, I spoke to Ted today in detail about the BarLoc and nucleus question.
The BarLoc for the Nucleus specifically was envisioned as a shouldered installation, not a barrel nut installation. My understanding of it, as stated above, was correct however his website showed a rendering of a barrel nut.
Based on that he said he's going to weigh in over here and will work it out with customers.
He also said he has been absolutely swamped with getting the NUCLEUS actions out the door and apologized for not being able to keep up on this thread but there are only so many hours in a day. I can certainly understand that myself.
So, before folks get upset or out of shape further, the confusion has been noted and for those on the pre-order with the Nucleus specific BarLoc it will be handled. If you assumed one or the other it will be taken care of and Ted will handle it but as of right now he's focusing on getting the actions produced.
The BarLoc for the Nucleus specifically was envisioned as a shouldered installation, not a barrel nut installation. My understanding of it, as stated above, was correct however his website showed a rendering of a barrel nut.
Based on that he said he's going to weigh in over here and will work it out with customers.
He also said he has been absolutely swamped with getting the NUCLEUS actions out the door and apologized for not being able to keep up on this thread but there are only so many hours in a day. I can certainly understand that myself.
So, before folks get upset or out of shape further, the confusion has been noted and for those on the pre-order with the Nucleus specific BarLoc it will be handled. If you assumed one or the other it will be taken care of and Ted will handle it but as of right now he's focusing on getting the actions produced.
Thanks for digging into this Josh - I think everyone realizes both of you are swamped and understands confusions happens and deadlines are missed when trying to introduce new products.
Question for you though - what if we ordered a savage prefit from you under the assumption the barloc is for that type; would it be possible to switch our order with you to the shouldered barloc version instead of Ted putting together what sounds like a special run of nucleus specific barrel nut barlocs? A barloc with a nucleus lug and a shouldered barrel from you is what I really wanted, I just didn't think it was possible based on the info I had at the time and wanted to get my order in to get my place in line.
Thank you
At this point it's pretty late to do that. A good number of the blanks that were ordered for those prefits have left Rock Creek or are leaving on Monday. Something like 100 of the 300 ordered are inbound. The new turning center is 2 weeks late and will be on the floor Tue/Wed this coming week so I'm anxious to start hammering on the barrels, I have the programming already complete for most of what needs to happen for the prefits.
Keep in mind that one way or another you need the headspace gage on the BarLoc, the shoulder is a cleaner looking setup IMO but it's not going to change the function of the barrel swap.
I did relay that issue to Ted as well that I have barrel blanks ordered and contoured based on the orders and folks' understanding at their time of order. He understands it and we discussed this evening. It's a detail that was not as clear as it could have been, I was working on having a tight relationship with Ted and the project but the picture on the website threw folks for a loop when they ordered.
If I can get it sorted out I'll try but I can't make a promise to that effect because of the barrel blanks already having been worked on by Rock Creek.
I am with Winny95. I ordered a savage prefit because it appeared that was the only way to get a Barloc. I would prefer the shouldered setup. Would like an email with that request? I know you are swamped and I realize it may not get changed. Thanks
Sorry I didn't proof read my post. Josh would you like an email with the request from savage prefit to shouldered? I understand if not available. Thanks
Ah damn, that's dispointing. I'm not a fan of barrel nuts on bolt guns, but I thought that was the only way. I appreciate you offering to check on it, but I understand it may not be possible, and I don't want to stick you with a blank that won't be sold. Maybe I can convince Ted when he gets caught up to sell me the tapered piece for shouldered barrels in addition to the barrel nut - I plan on ordering 2 more barrels from you as soon as a few things sell on the post exchange and I definitely want them to be shouldered and use the barloc.
Dude....I think so many of us got confused, a lot of us will be looking to swap one type of Barloc for another. I think the Barloc (or at least the "thing" inside) can probably be swapped. Expect a lot of horse trading....
That's what I'm doing, I just ordered a Nucleus barrel from Josh straight out and the action from ARC. I'm gonna call ARC Tomorrow and have the Barlok removed from my order as I'm not switching barrels that often and will primarily use the barrel vise...
Had I known the Nucleus was going to come with the shouldered barloc at the intro $850+$50 price I would of went that way instead of going with the Bighorn Origin. Hell, I would of got in on the barreled action buy from you. So, that's at least one lost sale.
Good luck getting it all sorted out. I'll still be ordering a barrel from you.
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Excellent, thank you for reaching out to Ted to help get this figured out. I certainly understand where both you and he are at in terms of priorities, so thanks again for taking the time to do it.
Anyhow, that news makes me even more excited to receive my action/Barloc, as I prefer the cleaner look and easier repeatability (with an index mark) of the shouldered setup!
Of course, that's easy to do and confusion free!
I touched base with Rock Creek about the blanks. They have stuff already sectioned from the appropriate bar stock, stacks of barrels are in process with the gundrilling, reaming, etc stations around the shop.
I apologize for the confusion on this but for the sake of keeping it from getting even more mixed up by adding big changes to a sizeable order of barrels I'm going to have to decline making changes for it now.
I expect there will be some horsetrading and if we can assist with it I will but for now we have the spreadsheets setup and in the hands of vendors so it's quite difficult to change.
Well at least give us some good news - is the move back on track and do you think these barrels be done by that anticipated April date? Haha
So the $50 upgrade for the Nucleus specific barloc is for the shouldered version not the prefit-barrel nut version that’s in the picture? I know everyone is super busy but could we maybe get a little 3 minute video quickly detailing the different options? I just want to make sure I’m ordering an appropriate barrel for the action I have on preorder. Just a side by side with a regular Nucleus, shouldered barloc, and prefit-barrel nut barloc with differences in the barrels of each.
Thanks!
-Kirby
Thanks!
-Kirby
BARLOC is discussed at about 720. Not sure if this will help. My understanding is with BARLOC you use standard SAVAGE prefit barrels (20 TPI)
I am sure this will all get worked out soon enough. I wanted the One with the nut for savage prefits so if it is for shouldered barrels, some lucky bloke will have the opportunity to purchase my barloc at a rebate.
The ONLY difference is the front piece of the barloc. The SAVAGE PREFIT style has a barrel nut. The back end of the barrel nut has a corresponding taper to the inner ring of the Barloc.
Action ---> Tapered ring ---> Barloc clamp ---> Savage style nut with tapered rear end---> savage prefit barrel
The other setup uses two of the same tapered rings that butt up against flat surfaces---- Your action face, and a shoulder on a barrel.
Action ---> Tapered ring ---> Barloc Clamp ---> tapered ring ---> shouldered barrel
ETA: The thread pitch and diameter is the same for both setups, obviously because it has to thread into your action. What does change is the outside diameter of the barrel. Savage prefits max outside diameter is the major diameter of the 1.0625x20tpi threads, i.e. just a little under 1-1/16" diameter. Most shouldered barrels are 1.200-1.250" in diameter, so what Bohem is talking about is he ordered a shitload of 1.200" blanks to make prefits for SHOULDERED setups, and can't just switch the order after it's processed and production on the blanks has begun to get 1.063" blanks to make the savage prefit style barrels. If you go buy a savage prefit barrel, you always need the barrel nut because there's no provision for a shoulder.
If you buy a 1.200-1.250" blank you're better off going shouldered.
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Good explanation.
The BOLD text is where my hangup is with changing over the orders. The Savage barrels come from different bar stock than the shouldered prefits and the steel has already been cut.
The Nucleus barloc intergrates the tapered surface into the face of the recoil lug correct?
That is the Nucleus specific BarLoc.
The other actions need the tapered washer on both sides. The Nucleus integrates the tapered washer into the Nucleus Specific lug.
Exactly what I said, I just attached pictures to explain. The nucleus BarLoc lug with the BarLoc for a shouldered barrel minus the tapered washer for the action side. The question of course is the id of the nucleus barloc lug. It may be smaller than the diameter of the barrel but it shouldn't be since that's dictated by the od of the action thread, or is the diameter of the tapered ring on the lug different than the tapered washer used in the shouldered barrel barloc?
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The ID bore of the Nucleus recoil lug is made to fit the 1-1/16th inch nominal OD of the tenon thread. It's still dictated by the major diameter of the tenon thread.
So, I would guess that the major diameter of the barrel tenon drives the dimensions of the components. I think Ted can confirm or deny that the middle component (the block with the cap screw threaded into it to provide the tension to the two side components) is the same regardless of the outer components. My guess would be that they can be any combination of a nut with a tapered surface, a washer or two with tapered surfaces or a recoil lug with a tapered surface. In any case the dimensions of the tapered surface are the same on all of them. It seems like there could be a mix and match of combinations of a total of 3 components that could be used together to create a 3 piece barloc.
If not, the standard flat nucleus recoil lug could be used in combination with the standard 3 piece shouldered barrel barloc with the only the location of the shoulder dimension changing. 4 pieces not as elegant as the 3 but still possible with only a change in the length of the threaded tenon. The stack height of the total components (3 or 4) would determine the location of the barrel shoulder.
If not, the standard flat nucleus recoil lug could be used in combination with the standard 3 piece shouldered barrel barloc with the only the location of the shoulder dimension changing. 4 pieces not as elegant as the 3 but still possible with only a change in the length of the threaded tenon. The stack height of the total components (3 or 4) would determine the location of the barrel shoulder.
Let's assume no news is good news and we're still on track for an April delivery.
What is everyone's plan for their actions? I'm going with a 260 and 308 with a barloc in this JAE w/ arca rail, PSR Atlas, Timney CE Adjustable, Area419 Hellfire, ARC mags w/ the MK followers, and a Vortex Razor HD in ARC rings.
What is everyone's plan for their actions? I'm going with a 260 and 308 with a barloc in this JAE w/ arca rail, PSR Atlas, Timney CE Adjustable, Area419 Hellfire, ARC mags w/ the MK followers, and a Vortex Razor HD in ARC rings.
Attachments
Short action Nucleus, .308 bolt face, Barlok
Proof Savage prefit 6.5CM, 24"
KRG Bravo
Sorta John Hancock I guess. Undecided on optic and mount as I have no spares, but I was thinking AMG (should have kept one) for lightness since the Bravo is light and the Proof barrel won't be heavy. I will probably go with the new Geissele trigger. Atlas CAL will go on the AX, so I will likely move the PSR to the Nucelus or make use of the bipod stud for my Harris.
Why'd you move away from the AMG, @Winny94?
Proof Savage prefit 6.5CM, 24"
KRG Bravo
Sorta John Hancock I guess. Undecided on optic and mount as I have no spares, but I was thinking AMG (should have kept one) for lightness since the Bravo is light and the Proof barrel won't be heavy. I will probably go with the new Geissele trigger. Atlas CAL will go on the AX, so I will likely move the PSR to the Nucelus or make use of the bipod stud for my Harris.
Why'd you move away from the AMG, @Winny94?
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Short answer? I need the cash and a Razor HD will do everything I need it to. The AMG is killer scope though. Interested in an MOA model? Haha. I got it for sale for $1950.
I preordered a long action Nucleus with a magnum bolt head. I'll likely get the build done by PVA or LRI given their experience dealing with ARC actions. I'll hopefully be able to time the completion of the build to roughly the time the suppressor will be arriving.
Stock: Manners EH1A
- Wyatt's extended DBM
- Glass and pillar bedded
Barrel: Proof 24-26" carbon fiber (300WM)
- Muzzle device: TBAC 338 Ultra that I'm ordering on Friday
Trigger: Huber two-stage
Scope: Vortex AMG 6-24x50mm
- Rings: ARC M10
Stock: Manners EH1A
- Wyatt's extended DBM
- Glass and pillar bedded
Barrel: Proof 24-26" carbon fiber (300WM)
- Muzzle device: TBAC 338 Ultra that I'm ordering on Friday
Trigger: Huber two-stage
Scope: Vortex AMG 6-24x50mm
- Rings: ARC M10
