An action without a trigger always cocks on opening since the stiker will ride down the cocking cam each time the bolt is closed.
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Hands on Origin/Nucleus at SHOT?
- Thread starter TimeWillTell
- Start date
An action without a trigger always cocks on opening since the stiker will ride down the cocking cam each time the bolt is closed.
Another question. Will the swept bolt handle on the origin work in a standard 700 stock or chassis without modification to the bolt handle cutout?
I’ve wondered this myself and I’m thinking no. The rem is flat bottomed and fairly small. A tl3 needs clearancing near the round underside of the handle. The origin looks identical except for the sweep.
Damn, thats the first bad report I've heard. When you say the bolt was sloppy, were you able to feel movement when the bolt was closed?
My EH1 is actually fit for a swept handle and my straight TL3 works in it. They seemed to have Origins sitting in various stocks/chassis' on that video i posted.
It could be fine it kind of looks like it has a small straight portion then it is swept back. Maybe that is just enough to clear?
Yes. They had one in an old 700 BDL stock and said they barely had to open the ejection port cut.
No, thats why I said I am sure it wont affect accuracy, it locked up tight. Just running the bolt it felt flimsy and not precise. I got to finger bang the new Defiance and there was no comparison. Of course it was more expensive as well, so its to be expected. Im just real picky about little things like that.
Again, not a slam on ARC, I love Ted's stuff and at this actions price point I cant expect it to be on par with actions costing nearly twice as much.
Just an observation.
So is there anyone else who still hasnt pulled the trigger but really thinking about purchasing one of these in the last days of the presale?
I think the nucleus looks bad ass but i am kind of leaning towards the more traditional style of the origin. The cheaper price tag dosnt hurt either.
I think the nucleus looks bad ass but i am kind of leaning towards the more traditional style of the origin. The cheaper price tag dosnt hurt either.
More or less in the same boat.
Leaning towards bighorn, the upfront and overall cost for the action and a second bolt head it is a fair bit cheaper. Only qualm is my interest with the barloc. That being discounted too right now levels out the cost, so it comes down to features for me. Always really liked the TL3 but it was more expensive than I was willing to pay, hence the leaning towards bighorn.
With both presales running out end of day tomorrow planning in sleeping on it again and placing an order tomorrow evening. Highly doubt you can go wrong with either one based on both company's reputations and the current support from PVA and others for barrels and accessories.
I'm going to have to hold off until I can think of a good plan. I'd like one but I'm in the middle of a CZ mini mauser build, and my 6.5 SAUM Mausingfield covers most bases. Maybe a 28 Nosler or .30 or .338 RUM big boomer. Could rebarrel the 6.5SAUM to a standard 6-6.5mm when I toast the barrel and have little, medium, big. Nothing pressing, though. $150 difference won't mean much by the time I get around to it.
I ordered one on the spot,
I am having Josh do a John Hancock, at less than $2k it's a no-brainer
I am having Josh do a John Hancock, at less than $2k it's a no-brainer
I ended up ordering a .223 bolt face short action, but I can't help but think maybe I should have just gotten a long action magnum. I'm probably never going to buy AI's AXMC and my AX308 owns my short action space in the safe, but I've never really wanted a magnum nor do I have the space to open it up or desire to feed it.
The Hancock rifle was a full build IIRC but i don't think it had the barloc on it.
With the features and feel the Origin offers at it's price point (even after Feb 1) unless you hate a 90 degree bolt throw, this is an easy decision. The swept back bolt handle makes this action able to drop into any Rem 700 stock/chassis without modification. There's no doubt this is a clear winner for BigHorn.
Sales of the Nucleus have been very strong but nothing that we were not prepared for. Deliveries should start in the spring and may go into summer but no way beyond that.
I went with the bighorn. The Nucleus is pretty nice, but Ive wanted a bighorn for a while and this Origin lets me in the club. End result is a switch barrel, but it will come in phases.
I may still order one tomorrow, but there are a few aesthetics about the Nucleus that I just don't like. Again, just personal taste.
1. I really do not like the shape of the bolt handle on Mausingfield or the Nucleus. The swept look from large to skinny from bolt to handle just doesn't appeal to me.
2. Maybe it's an optical illusion, but it seems the picatinny rail on both actions sit higher than on others. Again, could be visual perception.
The rail height I can deal with, but the handle is about as bad as skinny jeans on a guy.
I still may buy one though. The concept seems right on!
1. I really do not like the shape of the bolt handle on Mausingfield or the Nucleus. The swept look from large to skinny from bolt to handle just doesn't appeal to me.
2. Maybe it's an optical illusion, but it seems the picatinny rail on both actions sit higher than on others. Again, could be visual perception.
The rail height I can deal with, but the handle is about as bad as skinny jeans on a guy.
I still may buy one though. The concept seems right on!
I ended up ordering two Nuclei. I already have a TL3, and while it's a nice action, I just doesn't "feel" super high end. I've cycled 700s that felt nicer.
I want to say "are you serious", but I don't want to sound sarcastic and I hate coined phrases. But are you? I have thought about buying a TL3 because I'm looking at several actions, but it would be a real disappointment if there isn't a galaxy of difference between a $1250 action and my broken in 700.
The TL3 isn't the tightest bolt action i've ever had. It has some play, doesn't really bother me though and it seems most that run them either. It can be a little sticky if you try to bind it, like apply lateral force whilst trying to close the bolt. If you run it like a regular bolt action it runs well. I've not felt a remington that's nicer, but it's not as tight or smooth as my Tempest or a deviant.
It's very subjective. A friend that owns a Defiance really likes the feel of my Bighorn. I prefer the Defiance.
It's hard to describe. It's certainly smooth and I've never had an issue binding with it. It is certainly not as tight as a Nesika that I handled recently, but it's designed that way. Upon cycling it, it's obviously more refined than a 700, but I just don't get that "glass" feel. This is really not a complaint against the TL3, its done everything I've needed it to and is very well made.
That being said, my Tikka T3x never really smoothened up either. Yes it's slicker than most other actions, but never has that "glass" feel.
The smoothest action I've ever felt was a used Steyr Pro Hunter. If it wasn't retardedly expensive from Cabela's used gun rack ($300 more expensive that a new one), I'd have bought it on the spot.
I also wanted the Bighorn for a while, but I really just wanted the best action for me. The Nucleus gives me CRF and mechanical ejection, which were my main reasons for looking at Bighorn, plus it's a three lug and a 72 degree bolt throw, which I was wanting. The Nucleus just blended all the features I wanted into one action at an amazing price. Couldn't pass.
lol, I was thinking the same thing. My tl3 is just about perfection. Not even reminiscent of a 700. Mine is utterly glass, and one of the nicest bolt actions I’ve ever operated, and I’ve owned a lot. When people watch me work that action, they notice oddly and coment on its smoothness. My own experience with defiance has kept me away from them. Mine wasn’t terrible, but I was unhappy with it ultimately.
Unlocked, it can feel like a $2 whore. Who cares what it feels like unlocked as long as it’s feeding and not binding. On that note, my AW hands down smokes everything. Not as smooth as a tl3, but the most functional non-binding action out there.
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Lol. I have to agree with you on the bolt handle. They are designed for function but really missed the mark on looks.
I just bit on a origin. I really like the nucleus but the extra money towards a totally unique action with very little to no user feedback scares me a little. I feel like with the origin i am basically buying a more economical version of the proven tl3.
Your point is valid about the lack of user feedback on the Nuecleus. The Origin is a safer play. However, the mausingfield had its skeptics initially as well and ARC didn't disappoint. I am rolling the dice with ARC because the innovation is worthy of exploring. Besides the regular price on the origin doesn't make is cost prohibitive if ARC doesnt meet my expectations.
Actually, what you observed is specifically designed in for reliability and has nothing to do with "cheapness".
For some reason this industry feels that "tight" is more accurate when it really has nothing to do with the accuracy once proper bolt head alignment is addressed (toroidal lugs or a floating head). What it does have to do with is how the action runs when it gets dirty and anyone that's felt a Defiance with a sneeze of Oklahoma/Texas/Colorado/Wyoming dust in it knows what I mean.
My first Defiance has gall marks on the lugs and bolt body because of this.
The NUCLEUS rides on the antibind rails in the bolt head and receiver, this makes it more reliable in dirty conditions and far less prone to getting bound up when the bolt is manipulated in anything except the "correct" way.
Ultimately it will end up being a faster action because of the way it's setup.
Eh to each their own, I like the ARC bolt handle and it has worked well for me on my Mausingfield. Plus it is instantly recognizable, you can easily pick it out on pictures even when you can't see the rest of the action.
As for the actions themselves I went with the Nucleus over the origin. I love CRF and only buy bolt actions with it, adding the only CRF three lug action to my collection was not an if but a when. Combine that with the Barloc integration for switching barrels and it was a home run for me.
I don't see how customers could lose with either action. We may very well be witnessing the Golden Age of Precision Rifles. Lots of options, lots of price points and the Remington 700 and Savage are no longer the only budget friendly options.
I agree. Though again i've never really understood bolt bind less someone is purposefully trying to bind the bolt whilst operating it. Is bolt bind people refer to induced due to running actions in harsh conditions?
Maybe i've not run my Tempest to the extent some of these guys do or in those environments mentioned. Even my 7005R which wasn't trued at all i never had binding issues out of. I get galled lugs and too tight of tolerance exhibited with dust and debris in an action. As you said it's bolt head alignment that matters over the feel of running the bolt back and forth through the raceway. I think some just love the feel of a "tight" action and i must admit my Tempest feels better than my Bighorn, maybe more controlled or refined is the word. I've not run into failure with either yet. Need to get my hands on a Nucleus but i'm afraid it would draw attention away from my other rifles lol.
I played with the Nucleus at Shot. I really liked it. It has a great feature set, very smooth bolt operation and less than 90 degree throw.
Having said that, I do still like my Tempest better. But it's not really fair to compare a new action to my well broke in Tempest.
Having said that, I do still like my Tempest better. But it's not really fair to compare a new action to my well broke in Tempest.
I went with the Bighorn Origin. It's a proven design based on the TL3. I was also talking to some guys who tried the actions at Shot Show and they were not impressed with the Nucleus three lug design.
Wow, really?
What did they say on the Mausingfield comparatively?
The Nucleus bolt lift is lighter than a Rem 700...
Bolt lift is normally heavier on a three bolt lug, so it's a compromise of bolt lift vs. 72 degree bolt throw. The biggests concern is the light striker spring to lighten the bolt lift may cause light primer strikes. I would rather go with a heavier spring like 17lbs to ensure reliability. I didn't ask them about the Mausingfield that is a two lug design with a claw extractor.
Ted said that the 15 pound spring has been setting off every primer he's put under it. Once they get production reasonably caught up, he said they might play around with heavier springs, see how much they affect bolt lift, and if they're acceptable, offer them for people that are concerned about it.
Regarding the Tikkas mentioned, i would agree that they are pretty darn close to what you get from a custom action, but they do still fall short in some areas.
I love my Tikkas, and my customs, i will say that my Tikkas were actually less prone to "binding" when compared to my TL3 and Defiance (specifically when the bolt is in the rearmost position). Not that the TL3/Defiance are bad, its just that the Tikka for me, to date, has been the least likely to bite or bind no matter what angle im working the bolt from.
However, the customs were smoother, and the Tikkas have the toughest bolt lift of all my bolt guns, and so despite its shorter throw, it is not as fast as the others. On top of this it has a reputation of having a weak bolt stop.
I ordered a nucleus hoping it would at least feel like a Tikka in terms of anti-bind properties, and have a lighter bolt lift, and stronger bolt stop (big ass check in that box!) Then the extractor, changing bolts, and barloc made it irresistable.
I love my Tikkas, and my customs, i will say that my Tikkas were actually less prone to "binding" when compared to my TL3 and Defiance (specifically when the bolt is in the rearmost position). Not that the TL3/Defiance are bad, its just that the Tikka for me, to date, has been the least likely to bite or bind no matter what angle im working the bolt from.
However, the customs were smoother, and the Tikkas have the toughest bolt lift of all my bolt guns, and so despite its shorter throw, it is not as fast as the others. On top of this it has a reputation of having a weak bolt stop.
I ordered a nucleus hoping it would at least feel like a Tikka in terms of anti-bind properties, and have a lighter bolt lift, and stronger bolt stop (big ass check in that box!) Then the extractor, changing bolts, and barloc made it irresistable.
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I plan to play around with 224V myself, that and 6BRA, using BarLoc and prefits.
It's been fixed years ago but when the Deviant first came out it was so tight/tight enough that you couldn't run the bolt forward "due to binding" except by pushing directly against the back of the bolt shroud (slight exaggeration but this is the best way I know to describe it). At least this was the case with two actions that people I know bought. Back then I was a Surgeon fan boy and the Surgeon just worked so well. Still got a XL action and it is one great action with those "just right bolt to action tolerances" and it has a guide rail in it.
I suppose there is no perfect bolt action but I thought the Nucleus struck a great balance, or as good as can be expected when considering all it's attributes and price.
It's been fixed years ago but when the Deviant first came out it was so tight/tight enough that you couldn't run the bolt forward "due to binding" except by pushing directly against the back of the bolt shroud (slight exaggeration but this is the best way I know to describe it). At least this was the case with two actions that people I know bought. Back then I was a Surgeon fan boy and the Surgeon just worked so well. Still got a XL action and it is one great action with those "just right bolt to action tolerances" and it has a guide rail in it.
I suppose there is no perfect bolt action but I thought the Nucleus struck a great balance, or as good as can be expected when considering all it's attributes and price.
Without knowledge of the pin drop, total moving system mass, spring preload, etc there are too many variables to make any determination on actual bolt lift and striker effectiveness simply by looking at the bolt rotation angle and the spring rate alone.
