President Trump issued 3 pardons today

Damiens book is a very Worthwhile read...


After Hitlers “These Men Are Dangerous”’ order that all Commandos and SAS be executed... many were. For the SAS, the war went on for some time After 1945.

Sent kind of a message, didn’t it???

Sirhr

yes, nazis= bad. all socialists suck.

although, the British are socialists too now. they'll throw you in jail for wrongthink these days, or let your daughter get raped and kidnapped by Pakistani trafficking gangs who have the proper connections. Great country.

As far as the Commando order, that was given after several documented cases of British commandos executing German prisoners that literally had their hands tied when they were shot in the back of the head, so the germans said "if you want to murder unarmed troops after they surrender, we'll do the same"

the British would never do that, right? Fair play and all that. Well, they attempted to commit genocide numerous times in Ireland, depopulated the Scottish highlands, tried to exterminate the Welsh, they executed American prisoners without any qualms during the American Revolution and starved them to death on disease ridden prison hulks, they stuck Boer women and children in concentration camps, ran a massive drug pushing scheme in China, Mass executed Irish again during the Easter Uprising, murdered civilians during the Irish Civil War, and were given permission to shoot Luftwaffe pilots who bailed out over Germany, and yes, with regularity shot german prisoners. There are a lot of people around the world who think the English are complete scumbags, due to their ideas of "fair play" in war. And Churchill? There is quite a bit of evidence that as First Lord of the Admiralty, he and Sir Edward Grey conspired together and deliberately hid and misrepresented communications with the Imperial German government, acting as rabble rousers to push things over the edge because they thought that WW1 would be a "great adventure" and beneficial to the British Empire. so he did not want to deescalate the conflict which ultimately led to the suicide of the West and 2 world wars. Thanks, Winston.

One thing I learned about the UK when I was teaching their curriculum and using their materials, is that they think they are always right, and they have the right to preemptively do very dirty things because "we're Britain". I frequently got into "discussions" with English eggheads who felt that the worst decision the USA ever made was to leave their control. Arrogant a-holes.

IMO, the kindest thing we can say about our "relationship" with England, and all the grief they caused the USA, is "with friends like that, who needs enemies".
 
This is an amazing photo....

View attachment 7184497

This is Lt col Felix sparks calling cease fire as his troops slaughter SS guards they were ordered to guard.

He is about to kick the machine gunner in the ass.

This is heroism.


Felix Sparks wants those SS Guards as dead as much his men do but he realizes there is a right way. Gunning them down with a M1919 is not the way.

This is atrocity.

It is more defined than that which Trump pardoned.

None of the soldiers in the unit that liberated Dachau were punished. The event was investigated by the mil.

I think they came to the right decision.

April and May of 1945 was not like the war was winding down. They were still fighting and these were guys that had been in contact almost daily and just came upon the horror of a concentration camp.

One of my friends grandpas was in the 157th 45th infantry Thunderbirds. He admitted to executing Nazis and didn't apologize for it after the atrocities he saw in his time over there. He fought in WW2 from north Africa all the way into Germany and had over 400 days of actual combat. Hearing him tell me stories of his time fighting and what he saw I don't blame him one bit for what he did. Honestly it's a miracle he came home alive and with minimal injuries. He lived a virtuous life, and he was a great man.

I've never served in the military, I was dq'd from service for medical reasons. One thing I took away from speaking to him and other veterans is war is hell, and emotions run high. Hard decisions are made everyday in combat.
 
One of my friends grandpas was in the 157th 45th infantry Thunderbirds. He admitted to executing Nazis and didn't apologize for it after the atrocities he saw in his time over there. He fought in WW2 from north Africa all the way into Germany and had over 400 days of actual combat. Hearing him tell me stories of his time fighting and what he saw I don't blame him one bit for what he did. Honestly it's a miracle he came home alive and with minimal injuries. He lived a virtuous life, and he was a great man.

I've never served in the military, I was dq'd from service for medical reasons. One thing I took away from speaking to him and other veterans is war is hell, and emotions run high. Hard decisions are made everyday in combat.

war is a terrible thing. prisoners get shot when people are pissed. People cross into the line of fire. Right or wrong, these things happen, and usually the winners are exonerated while the losers are eviscerated. This is why the decision to go to war should never be taken lightly, and why our founding fathers wanted the approval of the people and their representatives, and even then only for the necessary good of the USA (not NATO or the UN)

As far as the guy who shot the terrorist goat f'er on the motorbike, oh well. the heat of combat. It's not like he firebombed Dresden and killed 25,000 non-combatants, right?
 
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I remember being taught in the mil that if you had to surrender there was a way to do it as it was probably more dangerous to your life than fighting......

Hands up, lose the weapons get rid of head gear to try and emphasize your humanity and helplessness.

It was a sucky class, the gist was "Dont surrender".

Im guessing there is institutional knowledge that in the heat of the moment shit happens.
 
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"Were those gentleman on the motorbike firing at your platoon on the 5th day of Nov at 0945?". No? Great. You are not in any trouble. We just want you to sign this statement. Half of the platoon/squad just sign and probably didn't know what they were signing.

LT we need you to come and get debriefed. No, no you don't need a lawyer.
BOHICA!!!!
 
yes, nazis= bad. all socialists suck.

although, the British are socialists too now. they'll throw you in jail for wrongthink these days, or let your daughter get raped and kidnapped by Pakistani trafficking gangs who have the proper connections. Great country.

As far as the Commando order, that was given after several documented cases of British commandos executing German prisoners that literally had their hands tied when they were shot in the back of the head, so the germans said "if you want to murder unarmed troops after they surrender, we'll do the same"

the British would never do that, right? Fair play and all that. Well, they attempted to commit genocide numerous times in Ireland, depopulated the Scottish highlands, tried to exterminate the Welsh, they executed American prisoners without any qualms during the American Revolution and starved them to death on disease ridden prison hulks, they stuck Boer women and children in concentration camps, ran a massive drug pushing scheme in China, Mass executed Irish again during the Easter Uprising, murdered civilians during the Irish Civil War, and were given permission to shoot Luftwaffe pilots who bailed out over Germany, and yes, with regularity shot german prisoners. There are a lot of people around the world who think the English are complete scumbags, due to their ideas of "fair play" in war. And Churchill? There is quite a bit of evidence that as First Lord of the Admiralty, he and Sir Edward Grey conspired together and deliberately hid and misrepresented communications with the Imperial German government, acting as rabble rousers to push things over the edge because they thought that WW1 would be a "great adventure" and beneficial to the British Empire. so he did not want to deescalate the conflict which ultimately led to the suicide of the West and 2 world wars. Thanks, Winston.

One thing I learned about the UK when I was teaching their curriculum and using their materials, is that they think they are always right, and they have the right to preemptively do very dirty things because "we're Britain". I frequently got into "discussions" with English eggheads who felt that the worst decision the USA ever made was to leave their control. Arrogant a-holes.

IMO, the kindest thing we can say about our "relationship" with England, and all the grief they caused the USA, is "with friends like that, who needs enemies".
Army jerry. Great to have you back.

You forgot to add something about our longest lasting deepest enemy
 
You gotta love the closet leftists and communists hiding on pro-gun websites.


Were you there? Do you have evidence of their guilt you forgot to get to the prosecutors in time? :unsure:


Having seen the UCMJ in action, I'd side with these three guys any day of the week. I personally know of a rape victim and it was 100% a rape by a Lt. Commander in the Navy of an E-5 in his chain of command. Everyone from NCIS to the ship's commander worked to court martial her as a seductress for illegally seducing a senior officer who offered her a ride to a unit party, then drove her 100 miles away to an empty hotel bar. They tried to ruin her life over this incident and hounded her out of the Navy.

From my personal experience, I walked into work one Monday and was read my rights because someone somewhere thought I had broken equipment that made their job impossible. The someone was a fucking alkie who was months behind on his job, the section chief loved him, they were drunks together. Of course is was bullshit. After I was read my rights, I declined to answer questions and requested a lawyer 38 times in the next four hours. Even the Security Forces guys watching my questioning began questioning the process. Not being an idiot myself, I knew it was pointless to use facts with this pair of scientists, I'd wait for a lawyer.

Here is the best joke of the day, a JAG lawyer (prosecutor) and an ADC lawyer ( the turd the military gives you for free) can work either side of the case. If a defense lawyer wins too often, they simply make them a JAG lawyer. If a JAG lawyer turns out to be borderline retarded, they make him an ADC lawyer. No lawyer working for the military actually gives a shit about "attorney/client privilege", if you confess to your military lawyer, you might find out he is a tennis buddy with the prosecutor and is telling him everything you say. In my case, the ADC lawyer could not believe we were wasting her time with crap like this. Every single thing was easily rebutted with the most basic check or simple phone call. But, she still asked me to "confess to her so she could evaluate the issues", hahahahahaha. I explained the concept of innocent and declined.

This horseshit of course turned out to be horseshit but for a month of my career, this officer made my life a hell. Every review of the issue proved me innocent of anything, every person they spoke with said as much. Most of all, nothing was ever actually broken and yet this crap kept on going. Eventually, the group commander stepped in and put a stop to this crap. This high quality officer still had my end of tour medal quashed because of this crap. My guys framed the "citation to accompany the award" and presented it to me at my bbq and thanked me for all the hard work. They were proud to serve with me and that was more than enough thanks.


Yeah we get it lefty........................................orange man bad. Go fly your stupid inflatable dolly.
Watch out, 8541Reaper is a pretty badass sounding handle.
 
I'm sorry, but most of this discussion is totally out of context. Ninja, grunt, or voter everyone is going to have an opinion. I served before the GWOT, but I've seen UCMJ justice up close too, and my comments aren't as a veteran, but as a civilian still trying to shake off the prior administration, which the rest of you seem to have forgotten and don't want to consider in these three pardons, which were certainly political and certainly made to send a message. Trump is a lot of things, but he's not an idiot, and didn't just do it for the hell of it.

ROE was fucked. I havn't heard different from anyone, and the longer you served in the sand box, and the more tours you did there the worse it got by all accounts. I'm not saying I interviewed everyone who came back, but I have a lot of witnesses who've been pretty passionate about how fucked it became. There is a sea of Afghanistan and Iraq veterans who think so. Never met one who thought it was reasonable during the Obama years. No one would ever say, "The ROE were great!". It isn't even something thought about or talked about UNLESS it's fucked and kills people, and by every account of everyone I'm friends with Obama made certain that everyone had one hand tied behind their back and made sure, often with these very cases, that everyone knew that .gov not only didn't have their backs, but they were actively searching for ANY incidents they could prosecute.

So really, whining about these pardons, and fearing for the system rings completely hollow in my ears after the fuck show we had to witness for almost a DECADE!!!! How many lives were lost for their leftist politics?

WTF! You're but-hurt that Chief Gallagher gets to retire after a fully distinguished career that ended with getting buddy-fucked? I wasn't there, but followed the trial closely, and I think he got railroaded. I think any of the three would have gone the other way in civilian court, and I totally believe that the JAG core was heavily altered and influenced on purpose and by design by the Obama Administration. He promoted the worst of the worst, and did everything he could to get rid of anyone who did their jobs.

I don't say that all three decisions that led to prosecution were the right ones at all, but "MURDER"? The totality of circumstances seems that this is wildly unjust.

Again, WTF! Where have you been? These men were prosecuted in the political atmosphere where a PFnothing deserter, who sought to join the enemy (this was called a "traitor" before the Obama Administration, and would have meant summary hanging), gets his parole from terrorists for the low, low price of FIVE ENEMY GENERALS!!!!!! Then, upon his return he is hailed by all the powers that be in Washington as a war hero and they literally don't understand why we're not grateful that Obama care so very deeply about this serviceman....

Even better is Bradley Fucking Manning, the transexual traitor who stole and transmitted top secret documents for political reasons, and was let out with barely a slap on the wrist when he should have been executed publicly.

You're ok with these, but not with the pardons? Pendulums swing both ways, and when a fucking idiot swings it so far something has to correct.

Maybe you can compartmentalize everything, and you think the radical cultural change in the military under Obama and the officers he chose to promote is all just swell, but I don't. There is a shit ton of damage to repair, people to get rid of, and a culture to restore. Part of that is letting the rank and file know that everyone in Washington isn't a horrible commie fuck who hates them and thinks they're deplorable. Most would prefer is they didn't GAF about them rather than actively working to destroy them whenever possible.

Maybe these guys ARE guilty of murdering the enemy. My sense of justice isn't even scratched when I look at who they are and the totality of their service records. If ANYONE, ANYWHERE, for any reason deserves mercy and a pardon you don't think it's career military who are in the shit for us? Maybe you are LESS qualified to judge BECAUSE you are a tip of the spear kind of guy and aren't looking at these guys with the awe and gratitude that the rest of the public does. Maybe these pardons were in spite of serious mistakes, but because of what these men spent their lives doing, which is only going to work for a very small number of us... ;think about it.

There are legitimate concerns about the application of the UCMJ and protecting it, but you can't do so in a vacuum and pretend that the last decade of radical leftist shit show didn't happen and isn't still having ramifications. These pardons are so minor compared to the decades shit show we had to undergo that this isn't the only poison pill that will be need to cure what's sick in our military.

Trump is undoing craziness, and this is part of that.
 
And if the CO of the SEALs disagrees he can always tender his resignation.........



Betting he wont and if he doesnt Trump should fire him.
 
And if the CO of the SEALs disagrees he can always tender his resignation.........



Betting he wont and if he doesnt Trump should fire him.

as if there was any doubt that 8 yrs under Marxist rule allowed the communists to infiltrate every level of the government and the armed forces. If the 5th columnists dont get rooted out now, they never will.
 
Hate to go to looks but kinda looks like he let himself go after he left a Team.....

1574361337703.png


Too much time in the ward room.

At least his fellow trader MCraven looked like he could still PT.

Edith would call him Archie.
 
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Yay. He fucking pardoned war criminals. Our enemies don’t even have to fucking hire propaganda specialists anymore. Yay.

Just an FYI... Fuck anyone who supports this move.

#NotTrollingAndDeadSeriousSoFuckAnyoneWhoCantSeeHowThisIsTheBestCaseForThoseThatWantToDoUsHarm

Hey look at the dumb fuck, everyone! Look!
 
.....and to think this was the "getting back to basics" Admiral.

@308pirate

How much insubordination was their "basically" in the Navy during your day?

Not a whole lot. My Commanders in Chief were Ronaldus Maximus, George H. W. Bush (a guy who BTDT in the big one), and for a brief span Slick Willie. I left right after that scumbag took office.

There were always shitbags but I had good sailors working for me. I had stand to Captain's Mast with my sailors twice, once on Reuben James and once on Nimitz. The mast on Nimitz was fucked up and I told the CO (an O-6 that funny enough was one of my nuke school classmates) that I thought so. By then I knew I was leaving and didn't give a fuck what some lifer thought of me.
 
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Not a whole lot. My Commanders in Chief were Ronaldus Maximus, George H. W. Bush (a guy who BTDT in the big one), and for a brief span Slick Willie. I left right after that scumbag took office.

There were always shitbags but I had good sailors working for me. I had stand to Captain's Mast with my sailors twice, once on Reuben James and once on Nimitz. The mast on Nimitz was fucked up and I told the CO (an O-6) that I thought so. By then I knew I was leaving and didn't give a fuck what some lifer thought of me.


Being on an FFG must be like riding a ski boat.....small crew, lots of speed, probably a great working ship because everyone knows everyone by smell of their gas.
 
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Being on an FFG must be like riding a ski boat.....small crew, lots of speed, probably a great working ship because everyone knows everyone by smell of their gas.

It was pretty cool. A real seaman's ship. ASW patrols and exercises in the Gulf of Alaska in winter were "fun".

I sailed on her to Vladivostok in September of 1990. We had to go ashore in summer whites. I took plenty of rubbers, Marlboros, and American cash.

That liberty was fucking epic
 
It was pretty cool. A real seaman's ship. ASW patrols and exercises in the Gulf of Alaska in winter were "fun".

I sailed on her to Vladivostok in September of 1990. We had to go ashore in summer whites. I took plenty of rubbers, Marlboros, and American cash.

That liberty was fucking epic


Russian collusion.........
 
There has to be a Naval War Fighter that wants to be Sec of the Navy, No?

These guys have the option to resign or shut the fuck up, not go against orders.


If its a matter of principle - prove your convictions - resign.
 
I'm getting into this thread a little late, but I support the pardons. The leftist/globalist RoE that our guys are forced to follow are designed to get our men killed and to never win a conflict. I'm sure the military industrial complex supports the leftist RoE as well so that all these "wars" never end. The leftist/globalist RoE is the number one reason our troops have record instances of PTSD. The leftist/globalist RoE has killed more of our own guys via PTSD related suicide here at home than the enemy ever has on their soil. Our enemies laugh at us for fighting with one hand behind our backs or not fighting at all because of RoE. Our troops are trained to kill and destroy to win if necessary. Give them the tools to survive and let them fight the way they were trained.
 
I'm getting into this thread a little late, but I support the pardons. The leftist/globalist RoE that our guys are forced to follow are designed to get our men killed and to never win a conflict. I'm sure the military industrial complex supports the leftist RoE as well so that all these "wars" never end. The leftist/globalist RoE is the number one reason our troops have record instances of PTSD. The leftist/globalist RoE has killed more of our own guys via PTSD related suicide here at home than the enemy ever has on their soil. Our enemies laugh at us for fighting with one hand behind our backs or not fighting at all because of RoE. Our troops are trained to kill and destroy to win if necessary. Give them the tools to survive and let them fight the way they were trained.
we used to win wars. now the UN has different goals than winning.
 
Using military as a police force is what leads to this type of problem. Our military needs to be the "gung ho, kick ass" type, and they are trained for that. It's our politicians that are the problem... We are not the world's police force and need to stop behaving as such. If we are attacked then lets go kick their asses without prejudice and leave the ashes burning for them to deal with.

Trump is definitely stirring the pot and no doubt the previous 8 years did much damage to our military (hell all government) structures from within. Our armed forces need to know we have their back and that they ARE held to a higher standard than all other forces. They are the best!
 
we used to win wars. now the UN has different goals than winning.

blaming the UN is a cop out. We’d be making the same exact stupid politician-driven decisions even if we exited the UN.

out elected leaders have no interest in resoundingly WINNING anything because then it’s over and the money flow starts to slow down.
Gotta Jeep yeeting future generations down the debt slavery hole to keep those Raytheon shares up.
 
Im going to have to break my silence on this one. Here we go...

With regard to the cultural context of the last 10 plus years.. Your reasonings be damned. When you take a side, you will be guilty of all aspects of that sides perceived wrongdoings in the eyes of the people who decided those injustices are what is most distasteful to them. No getting around that, and that’s not an argument for pacifism. I’m ok with that. It’s the way it’s always been. That being said..

Lefty’s, suck it. Way to go POTUS

@M8541Reaper, your not the only one with credentials. You sure are angry though..?

IMG_4375.JPG


This pic is from a large album I inherited from a friend - a retired Army Col., but in 1942 he was an enlisted Gunner's Mate in the USN serving in the South Pacific. Among other things, his ship was the Amphibious Assault Command ship for the Battle of Peleliu, and he was among the first Americans to walk the streets of Hiroshima after the bomb. These pictures were taken by him. Note that the guy on the far left in the left pic is not posing with a corpse. HE'S WEARING HIS ENEMY'S SKULL AS A F'ING HAT. These guys were there to win, and there was no other thought given to any other outcome. And no worries about #NowThey'llReallyHateUs. And DEFINITELY no worries about being courtmartialed for something as stupid and unimportant as this. The attitude of the entire country at that time would have been, "If the Japs find this offensive - GOOD! This is what we're going to do to every one of them until there aren't any more left."
 
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Dudes were boiling heads and sending bleached skulls home to girlfriends.

As Eugene Sledge relates that type of activity was thought of as "distasteful" and the guys doing it were considered "not right" but not charged or condemned by their peers. Eventually it seems an officer would tell them to knock it off when it got out of hand.

Different times to a degree.

In Liberia a local got lit up across the street from the DCMs house. I had my camera with me and thought for a second here is a picture to send the friends at home. Than I thought more about it and reconsidered because the poor bastard was probably dead just because he had the wrong color shirt on and walked into the other colored shirts AO. Should I shit on him even further?

If my other MSG Det members took pictures I didnt condemn them. Everyone processes horror differently.

How much shit did Gallagher process before he came to the point of posing in pictures and what did his judge and jury understand of that?
 
View attachment 7189160

This pic is from a large album I inherited from a friend - a retired Army Col., but in 1942 he was an enlisted Gunner's Mate in the USN serving in the South Pacific. Among other things, his ship was the Amphibious Assault Command ship for the Battle of Peleliu, and he was among the first Americans to walk the streets of Hiroshima after the bomb. These pictures were taken by him. Note that the guy on the far left in the left pic is not posing with a corpse. HE'S WEARING HIS ENEMY'S SKULL AS A F'ING HAT. These guys were there to win, and there was no other thought given to any other outcome. And no worries about #NowThey'llReallyHateUs. And DEFINITELY no worries about being courtmartialed for something as stupid and unimportant as this. The attitude of the entire country at that time would have been, "If the Japs find this offensive - GOOD! This is what we're going to do to every one of them until there aren't any more left."

thats interesting. jap skulls, helmet, arisaka, flags ...... and a British enfield on the deck. I wonder if those are Aussies with them, or if that Enfield was a 1941 capture/ 1943 recapture.
 
Dudes were boiling heads and sending bleached skulls home to girlfriends.

As Eugene Sledge relates that type of activity was thought of as "distasteful" and the guys doing it were considered "not right" but not charged or condemned by their peers. Eventually it seems an officer would tell them to knock it off when it got out of hand.

Different times to a degree.

Sledge's new lieutenant was caught shooting dicks off Jap corpses, and universally looked down on by his men. Pulling gold teeth was common, but ES admitted that it was the first step to 'going over the edge' and he was glad one of his friends stopped him when he was about to do it for the first time.
 
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Boiling skulls, pulling teeth, and mutilating corpses is different than taking a picture with a dead enemy to show "we got our man." Even the cops did it when they killed a famous mobster in the Gangster days. If the pictures Gallagher took with the dead enemy combatant are the ones I saw, I don't see the issue. In fact there are others in the pics, what were they charged with? They're just some guys standing around a dead enemy. It's not like they're sodomizing him with shovel handles (you know, like the enemy actually DOES - the same enemy that some here are afraid we're going to offend).
 
thats interesting. jap skulls, helmet, arisaka, flags ...... and a British enfield on the deck. I wonder if those are Aussies with them, or if that Enfield was a 1941 capture/ 1943 recapture.
Man, you've got a good eye to spot that Enfield on the deck. You can barely make out the shape of the mag. I would venture a guess that it was a recapture, as I believe everyone in the picture was American.
 
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Thank God Trump is bringing back common sense to the Oval office by reversing much of traitor obama's intentional damage.

It's nothing short of mental illness to support such self defeating RoEs, especially against animalistic terrorists. Only slightly less absurd is treating Illegal Alien invaders by American standards instead of the cultural standards they're accustomed to in their home countries.

The dems and rinos have regulated us into a position of defeat- via policy dictated by weaponized political correctness.
 
Boiling skulls, pulling teeth, and mutilating corpses is different than taking a picture with a dead enemy to show "we got our man." Even the cops did it when they killed a famous mobster in the Gangster days. If the pictures Gallagher took with the dead enemy combatant are the ones I saw, I don't see the issue. In fact there are others in the pics, what were they charged with? They're just some guys standing around a dead enemy. It's not like they're sodomizing him with shovel handles (you know, like the enemy actually DOES - the same enemy that some here are afraid we're going to offend).

In the same light I dont condemn the Marines taking a whiz on dead enemies.

I can only imagine the adrenaline/relief of living through a sharp firefight and I may want to express to those moments ago trying to kill me how I perceived their actions.

Their real crime was youtube.

Would anyone have known of Gallagher if the govt didnt blow him up?
 
Only slightly less absurd is treating Illegal Alien invaders by American standards instead of the cultural standards they're accustomed to in their home countries.

The dems and rinos have regulated us into a position of defeat- via policy dictated by weaponized political correctness.

That poem on the base of the Statue of Liberty is not a "Death Pact".
 
Where were the pics taken?

Man, I wish I could remember. He told me when he showed them to me the first time, but I can't recall. I didn't know I would end up being the caretaker of these albums at the time he showed them to me. If I had known I'd have taken notes, but I never expected to see them again. After he passed, his wife wanted to get rid of all this stuff and asked me if I wanted it. He died, by the way, of mesothelioma, most likely from asbestos exposure during this time. His kids (my age) weren't interested apparently, but unfortunately one of them DID want the Garand he brought back from Peleliu.:mad: Oh well, at least I got to shoot it. Weird feeling looking down those sights and knowing it was the same barrel and sights a Marine was seeing before he was mortally wounded in that battle.

There are quite a few pics of an Order Of Neptune Line-Crossing Ceremony in the album, Pollywogs becoming Shellbacks.
 
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I'm sorry, but most of this discussion is totally out of context. Ninja, grunt, or voter everyone is going to have an opinion. I served before the GWOT, but I've seen UCMJ justice up close too, and my comments aren't as a veteran, but as a civilian still trying to shake off the prior administration, which the rest of you seem to have forgotten and don't want to consider in these three pardons, which were certainly political and certainly made to send a message. Trump is a lot of things, but he's not an idiot, and didn't just do it for the hell of it.

ROE was fucked. I havn't heard different from anyone, and the longer you served in the sand box, and the more tours you did there the worse it got by all accounts. I'm not saying I interviewed everyone who came back, but I have a lot of witnesses who've been pretty passionate about how fucked it became. There is a sea of Afghanistan and Iraq veterans who think so. Never met one who thought it was reasonable during the Obama years. No one would ever say, "The ROE were great!". It isn't even something thought about or talked about UNLESS it's fucked and kills people, and by every account of everyone I'm friends with Obama made certain that everyone had one hand tied behind their back and made sure, often with these very cases, that everyone knew that .gov not only didn't have their backs, but they were actively searching for ANY incidents they could prosecute.

So really, whining about these pardons, and fearing for the system rings completely hollow in my ears after the fuck show we had to witness for almost a DECADE!!!! How many lives were lost for their leftist politics?

WTF! You're but-hurt that Chief Gallagher gets to retire after a fully distinguished career that ended with getting buddy-fucked? I wasn't there, but followed the trial closely, and I think he got railroaded. I think any of the three would have gone the other way in civilian court, and I totally believe that the JAG core was heavily altered and influenced on purpose and by design by the Obama Administration. He promoted the worst of the worst, and did everything he could to get rid of anyone who did their jobs.

I don't say that all three decisions that led to prosecution were the right ones at all, but "MURDER"? The totality of circumstances seems that this is wildly unjust.

Again, WTF! Where have you been? These men were prosecuted in the political atmosphere where a PFnothing deserter, who sought to join the enemy (this was called a "traitor" before the Obama Administration, and would have meant summary hanging), gets his parole from terrorists for the low, low price of FIVE ENEMY GENERALS!!!!!! Then, upon his return he is hailed by all the powers that be in Washington as a war hero and they literally don't understand why we're not grateful that Obama care so very deeply about this serviceman....

Even better is Bradley Fucking Manning, the transexual traitor who stole and transmitted top secret documents for political reasons, and was let out with barely a slap on the wrist when he should have been executed publicly.

You're ok with these, but not with the pardons? Pendulums swing both ways, and when a fucking idiot swings it so far something has to correct.

Maybe you can compartmentalize everything, and you think the radical cultural change in the military under Obama and the officers he chose to promote is all just swell, but I don't. There is a shit ton of damage to repair, people to get rid of, and a culture to restore. Part of that is letting the rank and file know that everyone in Washington isn't a horrible commie fuck who hates them and thinks they're deplorable. Most would prefer is they didn't GAF about them rather than actively working to destroy them whenever possible.

Maybe these guys ARE guilty of murdering the enemy. My sense of justice isn't even scratched when I look at who they are and the totality of their service records. If ANYONE, ANYWHERE, for any reason deserves mercy and a pardon you don't think it's career military who are in the shit for us? Maybe you are LESS qualified to judge BECAUSE you are a tip of the spear kind of guy and aren't looking at these guys with the awe and gratitude that the rest of the public does. Maybe these pardons were in spite of serious mistakes, but because of what these men spent their lives doing, which is only going to work for a very small number of us... ;think about it.

There are legitimate concerns about the application of the UCMJ and protecting it, but you can't do so in a vacuum and pretend that the last decade of radical leftist shit show didn't happen and isn't still having ramifications. These pardons are so minor compared to the decades shit show we had to undergo that this isn't the only poison pill that will be need to cure what's sick in our military.

Trump is undoing craziness, and this is part of that.
Just quoting this so I can give it another upvote
 
Nah it’s all good in the hood. No nerves hit, but I stand by what I said. Unfortunately I just realized that I don’t rate to talk on this as I didn’t commit war crimes on any of my deployments. So I don’t have a leg to stand on.

I’m also not trying to shut anyone down. I’m just voicing my opinion that they don’t rate to comment, that’s all. Literally just a differing option posted on an online platform. I’m not coming into their homes and removing their fingers or tongues. I’m not petitioning to have them removed from the hide or any other platform.

??‍♀️


you should ease up because you weren’t there and don’t have all the facts. This guys served our country for a very long time so give the guy the benefit of the doubt.
 
Bye Felicia!

Spencer was fired... as he should have been.

SECDEF took no crap. You don’t blatantly deny an order from CinC.

Bye Felicia, indeed! Go work for CNN, peckerhead!

sirhr