Methinks he has gone dark target now...
New Sig CROSS
- Thread starter oda175365
- Start date
Methinks he has gone dark target now...
I don't have anything against Sig just gotta let em marinate in the market for a little bit while all their beta testers I'm mean early adopters work out the kinks. They're usually 100% solid by the time gen 2 rolls around about the time they discontinue parts and manufacturer support of the 1st gen leaving anyone who bought it up a creek because hey FK those guys.
The 3000 series rifle that is made in Germany was way ahead of the curve for it's day.
I have a close friend whom is a very substantial collector.
We play a game between us and see who can score odd stuff cheaply, I bought a JC Higgins Model 50 for $100
He laughed at me, then I showed him it was made by FN in Belgium, going price in 1951 $100.
Sig USA is what's giving Sig a bad name.
I rate them right up there with Harley Davidsons business model of committing a slow suicide because that got away from basics and whored themselves out to the "Cookie Cutter Uber Cool"
You mean like how The Fix by Q already does with KAC SR25 mags?
AICS is still better than SR25 mags. AW mags would be better yet but frankly I'd rather have mags designed for the platform than trying to adapt mags from the 1950's. Hopefully SIG improved on Q's "innovation"; off the cuff it looks like there is large bolt knob, different bolt, and non AR mags. I imagine SIG won't be plagued major supply issues and vendor infighting. SIG's QC will be the main concern and, as mentioned above, Gen1 users will probably get shafted (as opposed to Gen2 Q consumers who get shafted).
LOL, what? In what regard? Being able to adapt them to most bolt guns, yes. Overall, fuck no.
AICS mags have zilch for keeping the follower level and it definitely presents a problem in them. How often do you have to hear guys having to tweak or tune them to get them to feed right? I know some has to do with the action and chassis but I've definitely had issues from them that wouldn't have been present with a follower with some sort of anti tilt aid.
Double stack double feed mags are superior, period (like the AW). Double stack double feed mags with anti tilt followers are more superior (like the SR25 pattern).
There are a lot of junk mags on the market for both, but more for the SR25 pattern. Buy KAC mags and you won't have an issue, and you get longer OAL with them too.
Everytime I come back and read this thread I think @lowlight may need to set minimum standards for vendors (or their reps)...
How many Q guns do you own and have you owned?
Hi,
Kind of like a set of "Captcha" questions dedicated to the industry lolol?
Sincerely,
Theis
SR25 mags in a AR10 are fine, not so much in bolt guns. SR25 mags are a serious weakness in Q's rifle and show in the endless complaints. Nevermind that SR25 mags are short and limit cartridge overall length.
You didn't answer my question.
Personally I own one Q gun and had two others. Two Fixes and I had zero feeding issues. The Pmags they came with didn't feed great/ultra smooth, but that's because they're pieces of crap, not because of the gun. I ran KAC 10rd mags and both fed like butter.
Also, let's say you are correct that this is an issue. I have not experienced it nor have the other half dozen or better people I know with Fixes, but lets say it does exist. That would be a "design flaw" not a "QC". Intelligence > you.
Next.
See my other reply right before this one. Nah homie.
Seriously, it's a bolt pushing rounds up a feed ramp. How does it change whether a user is racking the bolt or if gas and a spring is doing it?
Not everyone's experience matches yours and there is a rather lengthy threads with comments expressing such. SIG didn't use the SR25 magazine from the limited pictures posted so far and I think it's a smart move. Whether or not this will be a good rifle remains to be seen.
Everyone I personally know that has one or he ran one has though and I know how many people will say anything on the internet.
Have you had one? If not then that means the only two people in this thread complaining about issues with the fix are people who have ZERO actual experience with one and are just regurgitating what they read somewhere.
Why is it that anytime someone says the Q Fix had issues someone else always gets butthurt about it? It's a young company with a unique design, whoever expects every piece will be 100% perfect off the line is nuts. There is a huge thread on the Fix where common issues and concerns are brought up at length, how is this something we have to discuss here?
You really want to advocate that top loading and topping off a DBM mag would be a consideration for this rifle.
I disagree.
#1: We have seen LOTS of bolt guns taking AW style mags (custom actions as well as Accuracy International rifles) and have yet to run across an L.E. sniper or PRS/NRL/ARS (you're welcome) competitor that actually top loads a DBM style rifle feed system with the mag in place. Just because it can be done doesn't mean it is widely adopted in real world use.
#2: Even if top loading was a thing, I wager that over half of the adult males in this audience could not successfully top of the magazine of this SIG bolt gun if they wanted to. The ejection port is tiny and very restrictive. I am confident my female boxer could remove the mag and add rounds faster than anybody could add rounds with that mag in place via that ejection port. Nobody is cracking open a box of ammo and topping off while looking for meat with feet.
I get that top loading can be fast and was a needed skill set. That was in the 80s and 90s with bolt guns having big ass ports (R700/W70/etc.) and non-detachable internal box mags. Been there and done that against early DBM users.
You also seem to be terribly worried about carrying enough ammo and you frame your concerns within the realm of deployed snipers. By definition of their typical mission profile, those bitches aren't going to be dumping magazines of ammo from one position. Excellent way to catch a mortar or a rifle round from a C.S. bad guy. There is little or no advantage to transporting/packing the whole ammo supply in loaded magazines for any sniper deployment. There is also little or no need for typical sniper rifle users to be carrying 10 or 20 magazines.
The original AICS style magazine is still the tits when it comes to reliability and durability within the bolt world.
I may have missed your point and if so, am open to clarification.
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GRIFFIN_ARMAMENT
Official Sniper's Hide account of Griffin Armament
Commercial Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
When I worked with WPS - as a DDM supporting US State Department, we weren't issued enough magazines to carry all the ammo in. So I had like 6 mags of 20 rounds for my SR25, and another 10 boxes of 20 rounds in my normal day load for the SR25. We were in a hostile country (Iraq) with only a few hundred US troops sprinkled about the place in 12 man ODA teams. We were the largest force in the country in 2011-2013 and we numbered about 900, DDM's (mostly former military snipers) being maybe 100 of those guys, and maybe another 200 of the non DDM's being Sniper qualified guys who weren't working in that capacity.
At one point we had a day where the RSO's were expecting Al-Sadr to bring tens of thousands of people to attempt to over-run the green zone and the Embassy. We were told of the plan which involved evacuating personnel to the Embassy and putting DDM's on the roof to hold off the force and protect the Embassy. ROE was shoot to kill (the governments way of saying it's exigent), we were cleared to fire but the force in that contingency was expected to be overwhelming. We felt decent for our odds if we could get to the Embassy, but we were plusing up on ammunition we would need at that point. It wasn't an obvious winning day with those numbers.
Later I worked security for the Baghdad airport and I was one of 3 DDM's at the airport and had that aforementioned SR25 load out. I didn't ever argue to carry less ammo because I knew if one of the many terrorist groups wanted to make a thing of owning the airport I would need the ammo to secure the airport. I wouldn't have been happier with magazines that were slower to top load, because I knew if I needed that ammo I would also need to load expeditiously and probably also in low light/low visibility. I have always felt single loading bolt guns have a major weakness (the slow re-loading of the magazines).
Sometimes a Sniper mission is support of a defense, and that's a job where it isn't one or two rounds in a hide.
It's kind of hilarious to see people on Snipers Hide argue that Frank should vet actual former snipers who post on this site. I've been to 3 government funded sniper courses- one for the Army, and two for Security companies vetting for US State Department contracts.
An advantage is always an advantage. If you need to re-load, a magazine that allows you to push the rounds into the top, instead of thread them like a Circa 1900 Luger magazine, is more advanced period.
If you don't need the advantage to do shooting sports with a precision rifle, that's fine. It doesn't mean that top loading double column mags aren't superior.
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GRIFFIN_ARMAMENT
Official Sniper's Hide account of Griffin Armament
Commercial Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
I would probably hope for anything readily available and good, so I guess if that's SR25, that's better, but I see photos of one of the AW mags looking like double column so it would work, except for probably costing like 3-5 mags of any more common variety and being possibly unable to support any other type of rifle.
Someone is going to do the needful while building those.
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Respectfully, your point has zero relevance in the context of this thread.
Given a choice of equipment, you would NEVER have deployed in your above situations with ANY bolt gun even if it was eating belted ammo.
If I was working your job in the above situations, I would damned sure be slinging a 7.62 gasser with glass as well. Great choice for the job at hand. No argument from me but also nothing to do with this discussion.
This thread is about a Sig bolt action rifle and evolved into feed systems for bolt action rifles.
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GRIFFIN_ARMAMENT
Official Sniper's Hide account of Griffin Armament
Commercial Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
Half those DDM's ran M24's. I didn't envy the level of stress that would bring, but why should the bolt guns be slow loading, low tech pieces of shit?
On Qualification days, they were glad to be M24 guys, and we wished we had M24's. Every other day, we were happy to be the guys that could qualify with an SR25.
I'll bet they all wished they had a sperm mount for the SR25
The only thing I want to add is I don't want to be around this rifle should someone drop it
I predict success on the order of magnitude we've seen from the Daniel Defense bolt gun.
Maybe Sig already paid the $50k to be the official ROFL of the PRS for 2020 ?
Maybe Sig already paid the $50k to be the official ROFL of the PRS for 2020 ?
Pretty slick lightweight looking rig. Sig has been on the move for sure. @Terry Cross your insight is much appreciated.
First detail review I’ve seen.
https://gununiversity.com/sig-cross-bolt-rifle-review/
Sig is releasing a new round with it 277 Sig Fury.
https://gununiversity.com/sig-cross-bolt-rifle-review/
Sig is releasing a new round with it 277 Sig Fury.
and all credibility gone when the lowest mark is an A- and it gets an A+ overall
way to go cleckner
way to go cleckner
277 gayest of tigers?
I betting it's in the $2,200-$2,600 range.
I wouldn't be surprised if the 277 Fury was remarkably like the 6.8x51:
SOFIC 19 - SIG SAUER Exhibits Next Gen Squad Weapons | Soldier Systems Daily
In a surprising move, SIG exhibited their final prototype candidates for the US Army Next Generation Squad Weapon program which seeks to replace the M4 Carb ...
soldiersystems.net
