So, the FBI is going after hoarders now?? Didn’t know that was illegal...
- Thread starter smoooth1
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how heavy is a fuckin box of masks??? like negative weight i think.
single box by single box. why not 10 trips w a dolley, maybe it was show time.
what are the specifics of this, and i wonder what the warrant says
single box by single box. why not 10 trips w a dolley, maybe it was show time.
what are the specifics of this, and i wonder what the warrant says
I’ll bet this is the shit going out of the back of NYC hospitals that the media freaked out on Trump for suggesting...
So that's what freedom looks like?
ETA: after reading the story it makes better sense now. The guy was trying to price gouge back to the govt. Of course that's gonna bite you in the ass
abcnews.go.com
ETA: after reading the story it makes better sense now. The guy was trying to price gouge back to the govt. Of course that's gonna bite you in the ass
Medical supplies seized from alleged price gouger to be distributed to hospitals
Hundreds of thousands of masks and other pieces of medical equipment seized from a Brooklyn man will be distributed to medical workers treating coronavirus patients.
abcnews.go.com
And apparently .gov is offering him fair market compensation notwithstanding the charges of lying to a federal agent and coughing at him/her which in today's situation could be considered assault. Would have been interesting to know what would have happened if the hoarder had invoked the fifth and had -literally- kept his mouth shut.So that's what freedom looks like?
ETA: after reading the story it makes better sense now. The guy was trying to price gouge back to the govt. Of course that's gonna bite you in the ass
Medical supplies seized from alleged price gouger to be distributed to hospitals
Hundreds of thousands of masks and other pieces of medical equipment seized from a Brooklyn man will be distributed to medical workers treating coronavirus patients.
Actually get to see your TAX dollars at work... Hope those slaving to haul all those boxes out don't hurt their backs.So that's what freedom looks like?
ETA: after reading the story it makes better sense now. The guy was trying to price gouge back to the govt. Of course that's gonna bite you in the ass
Medical supplies seized from alleged price gouger to be distributed to hospitals
Hundreds of thousands of masks and other pieces of medical equipment seized from a Brooklyn man will be distributed to medical workers treating coronavirus patients.
Med supplies, knocked that shit out.
Treasonous behavior by gov officials, huh?...
R
Treasonous behavior by gov officials, huh?...
R
So that's what freedom looks like?
ETA: after reading the story it makes better sense now. The guy was trying to price gouge back to the govt. Of course that's gonna bite you in the ass
Medical supplies seized from alleged price gouger to be distributed to hospitals
Hundreds of thousands of masks and other pieces of medical equipment seized from a Brooklyn man will be distributed to medical workers treating coronavirus patients.
So what you are saying is you are fine for the government to say we decided that instead of stockpiling stuff last time we depleted it (Obama years) like we were told by all the experts we should do... back when we could buy it dirt cheap by the container ship load...we just spent the money on our buddies instead....
Now that we want stuff the whole world wants and is willing to pay lots for, you better give it to us at any price we decide you should pay or we come and take it at gunpoint and then maybe pay you what we claim it was worth years ago that NOBODY will EVER be able to buy it for again.
But oh sure, cheer the heel clickers on.
So they are going to take the masks from some fella that was price gouging and deliver them to some medical facilities which happen to charge you $50.00 for a damn aspirin?
Feds didn't seem to give two shits about the ammo gouging after Sandy Hook, or any of the other mass shooting events.
Fucked up how they make their own rules and then only apply them when it benefits .gov
Fucked up how they make their own rules and then only apply them when it benefits .gov
And there is this at the bottom of the article:
The DOJ is encouraging Americans who learn of hoarding or price gouging of medical supplies during the COVID-19 pandemic to report it to the National Center for Disaster Fraud by dialing 1-866-720-5721 or email [email protected].
So what if I am hoarding, what's illegal about that?
BTW, I found one mask in my work shop from 2015, still in the plastic bag. They can have it if they want it, LOL.
The DOJ is encouraging Americans who learn of hoarding or price gouging of medical supplies during the COVID-19 pandemic to report it to the National Center for Disaster Fraud by dialing 1-866-720-5721 or email [email protected].
So what if I am hoarding, what's illegal about that?
BTW, I found one mask in my work shop from 2015, still in the plastic bag. They can have it if they want it, LOL.
Isn't this the basis of "supply vs. demand?"
If so, where does one draw a line? Or does a line get drawn?
If so, where does one draw a line? Or does a line get drawn?
in this particular case, it would depend on timing.
imho, there is a difference between prepping and hoarding for profit.
if you anticipate a future need and invest in something with the anticipation it will be short, good for you.
if there is an ongoing pandemic and you sweep up product to take advantage of a national health emergency, you are a dickwad.
this is just my opinion.
as an example, i probably have 18 months worth of toilet paper, but it was bought as earthquake prep, not after this all started.
buying years worth knowing somebody behind you has none is just being a fuckwad.
do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
i like this rule, although i am not religious.
He deserves a good beating but they still would have stolen it, just used some other trumped up charge. Goodbye liberty.
sorry, my story was the same story.
"He's not charged with hoarding or price gouging," lawyer James Moriarity said in a statement. "He's charged with lying to a federal agent and coughing in his direction. He categorically denies these charges."
Prosecutors say 43-year-old Baruch Feldheim hoarded the supplies in order to take advantage of the COVID-19 crisis and was selling them to doctors and nurses at prices as much as 700% above market value.
"He's not charged with hoarding or price gouging," lawyer James Moriarity said in a statement. "He's charged with lying to a federal agent and coughing in his direction. He categorically denies these charges."
Prosecutors say 43-year-old Baruch Feldheim hoarded the supplies in order to take advantage of the COVID-19 crisis and was selling them to doctors and nurses at prices as much as 700% above market value.
No, not necessarily as you can tell from my first sentence in the post. Initially I was 100% not happy that the feds stepped in to do this. However upon actually reading the whole story and understanding the full context, I believe they should have taken them from him and paid fair value (hell, even cost + if that makes it easier). But to knowingly run out and prevent others from obtaining that which is actually needed with the sole intent to extort monies from those in need is a wholesale fu&^ing! If the individual hoards supplies that they would personally use then its completely out of line to take it from him.
In this particular case, either take it and pay him or make him declare it is for his personal use and throw him in jail when he tries to sell it. This has been called a national emergency and the govt is gonna have a hard time restraining itself.... In my mind this is similar to WW2 and the govt was hoarding all the tires, fuel, gunpowder, bullets, etc. for the war campaign. Trump has stated this is a war, as such the govt will need the supplies to fight that war.
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hoarding or price gouging
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What the fuck are they going to do to people who bought a shit ton of masks when the first news of this thing started coming out of China? Most of them are using their supplies for personal and family use, not selling them. Price gougers and crisis opportunists are one thing... Seizing Joe Citizen's property for no reason other than the fact that he owns essential supplies??? That is boogaloo trouser-flexing material right there...
The government on every level, and the hospitals themselves, failed to prepare - so now when an individual makes a financially prudent and productive move, taking advantage of a simple understanding of the laws of economics (supply, demand, and shortage), now they will steal from him.
Yes, it is stealing, because there is no such thing as fair market value. The true market value is whatever he was charging that his customers were willing to pay. The difference between what he was earning, and what the government thinks they are worth, is the lost opportunity cost.
Yes, it is stealing, because there is no such thing as fair market value. The true market value is whatever he was charging that his customers were willing to pay. The difference between what he was earning, and what the government thinks they are worth, is the lost opportunity cost.
I don’t care if he is selling it for 700000%.
It is HIS FREAKING PROPERTY and I don’t understand why people think they have a right to take someone else’s stuff just because they didn’t plan ahead and now want to rob him at the point of a gun.
So the laws against selling our enemies weapons and supplies are also wrong? Or, what about selling drugs to children? How about human trafficking? Does unfettered capitalism have any limits? Reasonable limits are actually what makes markets free, just as laws and limits are what create freedom.
Emergencies are dangerous for liberty, period. It’s wise to be skeptical, and it’s why we’re armed. But hoarding and profiteering off human suffering is no virtue. There are limits, and when doctors and nurses are getting sick and being knocked out of action during a pandemic so you can make a 7000% profit..., IMO you’ve crossed that line.
This is now a legally declared war, because The President has declared emergency powers, and it doesn’t look like Congress is rescinding them anytime soon.
I‘ll certainly take libertarian extremism over extreme collectivism or extremist materialism, but any sort of fanaticism ends up being the enemy of the good. Life isn’t as black and white or as simple as some of you seem to want to make it.
Emergencies are dangerous for liberty, period. It’s wise to be skeptical, and it’s why we’re armed. But hoarding and profiteering off human suffering is no virtue. There are limits, and when doctors and nurses are getting sick and being knocked out of action during a pandemic so you can make a 7000% profit..., IMO you’ve crossed that line.
This is now a legally declared war, because The President has declared emergency powers, and it doesn’t look like Congress is rescinding them anytime soon.
I‘ll certainly take libertarian extremism over extreme collectivism or extremist materialism, but any sort of fanaticism ends up being the enemy of the good. Life isn’t as black and white or as simple as some of you seem to want to make it.
You make valid points, however I would challenge a few positions you have taken a stance on.
Extremism, like any ism that has come before it, is one of the great igniters of human conflict. This stems back to many previous wars, and will very likely lead to many more. Extremism, in some senses, however, are the roots our founding fathers utilized to launch a radicalized concept pre-1776, and with that concept forged a nation that many of us here have sworn multiple oaths tonserve and protect, against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
Brothers, we are at a critical time. While extremism is rampant across this country, civil liberties are dwindling and the concept and dream the signers of the declaration is virtually gone. Government is out of control. Government reach is almost endless. Personal freedoms are much smaller than what they used to be.
To your point on capitalism Fig, I understand what you’re saying. It is not black and white in many regards. I would have to say though, that an individual citizen profiting on foresight and supply of a necessity is that citizens right in a capitalistic nation. That having been said, I comprehend your logic of not jacking the price up 70000% in a time of crisis. Integrity is a virtue and I find my self questioning if this individual lives by that. I must remind myself however, I am not this mans judge.
The point of all of this, is that we live in what was created to be a democratic republic. In this democratic republic, active participants would make their voices heard in town hall meetings and those voices would carry to the nations capital. Entrepreneurs would have rights to be their own bosses and reap what they sow, rather than .gov scalping 40% tax levy to line pockets of interest groups and other shadow entities.
The original dream of the United States of America, in this writers opinion, is dead. My fear is, does anyone have the balls to change it? Or is this the shit we are going to hand to our kids and the millennial generation of idiots, even though I am technically by all accounts indeed one myself (by 1-2 years).
I’m terrified that our nation will never be the same. I have feared this long before this crisis. Something must change. There has to be a monumental and fundamental shift and every person calling themselves a politician needs to be removed from office the way our founding fathers would have removed them.
Let personal civil liberties and economic strength of the common man come back to the United States of America.
I don’t disagree with any of that in general, and the erosion of liberty and growth of a Leviathan government Certainly make this situation that much more dangerous. I an 100% committed to out Constitution, and have written a blank check to boot. However, Lincoln was also faced with dire choices (much more dire than ours) and his observation about the Constitution not being a national and individual suicide pact comes to mind.
In our system, and under the beliefs of our Founders, the individual IS the greater good, except when the entire body politic is threatened. Existential threats must change the calculus, and if they don’t and give in to common sense then it calls into question their utility in the first place. I do not question that utility or the fundamental truths of it, but when the Indians attack if everyone runs to th homes to only protect theirs it doesn’t really matter, because they’ll be no one left to enjoy liberty in the morning.
I am certain you are completely wrong about our founding fathers approving of profiteering during a national emergency. They were not blinkered fanatics. They were wise men who created a resilient system under which men could live free, and the fantasy of a perfect system was not part of it at all. Jefferson illegally raised a Navy and went to war, as well as illegally sending the country into massive debt by making a massive illegal land purchase. No, they were not fanatics at all.
In our system, and under the beliefs of our Founders, the individual IS the greater good, except when the entire body politic is threatened. Existential threats must change the calculus, and if they don’t and give in to common sense then it calls into question their utility in the first place. I do not question that utility or the fundamental truths of it, but when the Indians attack if everyone runs to th homes to only protect theirs it doesn’t really matter, because they’ll be no one left to enjoy liberty in the morning.
I am certain you are completely wrong about our founding fathers approving of profiteering during a national emergency. They were not blinkered fanatics. They were wise men who created a resilient system under which men could live free, and the fantasy of a perfect system was not part of it at all. Jefferson illegally raised a Navy and went to war, as well as illegally sending the country into massive debt by making a massive illegal land purchase. No, they were not fanatics at all.
Thats a very slippery slope youre skating on. WHO is it that gets to determine when you can steal my stuff? You? The gub'mint. A jury of 12? Bullshit, its theft, plain and simple.
Let's say someone gambled on war coming and bought up the chems to make guncotton. Offers to sell it to munitions manufacturers for 7,000% markup when everyone figured out war's about to start. Fuck him. Take his shit and deport him.
So, this would work like a gun "buyback" program?
They take it (after never having owned it) and "give" you (your own tax dollars) money for something you already own.
They call it a buyback.
Seems fair...
So you lack all humanity? When bad men are doing evil, good men are the only thing that can stop them. The truth is that profiteering man was the thief and he was stealing from humanity. The Sheriff (Govt) did the right thing.
If your a sheep you are not allowed to capitalize on anything only politicians are allowed to do that, you break that rule you go to prison and lose all your money. Now get back inline and keep your mouth shut.
Price Gouging Laws by State - FindLaw
FindLaw's extensive state-by-state listing of price gouging laws.
consumer.findlaw.com
You didnt know it was illegal, but yep, its illegal. A real fucking douche bag thing to do as well.
But its legal to profit from a plane crash by selling the stock short when it happens ? Profiting from a tragedy how are they different?Price Gouging Laws by State - FindLaw
FindLaw's extensive state-by-state listing of price gouging laws.
You didnt know it was illegal, but yep, its illegal. A real fucking douche bag thing to do as well.
It's not illegal to be a scumbag, a douchebag, a fuckwad or any number/combination of derogatory names.
Our congressmen just approved $2 trillion tax dollars to be spent on God knows what. The Fed is going to print another $4 trillion to pump into the market. Track that money and see who's families get richer from it. But hey Joe Citizen you're a POS for having what we, the govt, want and we make the rules. You are not one of the Special Animals on this farm so fuck you!!!
Our congressmen just approved $2 trillion tax dollars to be spent on God knows what. The Fed is going to print another $4 trillion to pump into the market. Track that money and see who's families get richer from it. But hey Joe Citizen you're a POS for having what we, the govt, want and we make the rules. You are not one of the Special Animals on this farm so fuck you!!!
Look up the laws relating to whatever situation you are talking about on your own. Rather than being another "well, I didn't know" lazy fuck who can't spend two minutes looking something up. Instead they say "I didn't know" in a way that implies there is no law against it. Proving they think they know things they don't, and that they will post things disguised as facts based on feelings.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Here is a great explanation of how antitrust laws protect us from big business monopolizing a market and charging unfair prices. I.E provides a fair market, with reasonable limits. It is not a similar situation to mag limits, and is not comparable.
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Understanding Antitrust Laws
Learn about antitrust or competition laws. These statutes protect consumers from predatory business practices by ensuring fair competition exists.
The Antitrust Laws
Congress passed the first antitrust law, the Sherman Act, in 1890 as a "comprehensive charter of economic liberty aimed at preserving free and unfettered competition as the rule of trade." In 1914,
Anti trust are morality laws. 
Anti trust laws protect us domestically, the same way foreign trade laws are supposed to protect our industries from countries like China, with no regulation and slave labor. See how well its working not enforcing foreign trade laws on China and letting them crush industries here, by selling manufactured products for less than the price of the raw materials they purchased.
You want to go back to having companies print their own money, to pay their workers, that only can be spent at the company store, and can only be used to rent company housing?
Anti trust laws protect us domestically, the same way foreign trade laws are supposed to protect our industries from countries like China, with no regulation and slave labor. See how well its working not enforcing foreign trade laws on China and letting them crush industries here, by selling manufactured products for less than the price of the raw materials they purchased.You want to go back to having companies print their own money, to pay their workers, that only can be spent at the company store, and can only be used to rent company housing?
No, I dont lack 'all humanity', if you look back I said he deserves a good beating. I just see a great potential for abuse here. Who determines what and when the gub'mint can take your stuff. Sounds like Communism to me. consider this scenario.
You worked your whold life for your home, raised your family theyre all gone, wife died, so you live alone in a nice 3 bdrm, 2 bath house you WORKED FOR, PAID FOR, AND OWN OUTRIGHT. Now the gub'mint comes along and says...
"Its not fair or humane that you live alone in an 8 room house and this poor family of illegals with 9 anchor babies only has a 1 bdrm apt. We're giving them your home and you get the apt. Its the HUMANE thing to do."
Excuse me but fuck you, commie, go back to China.
Well this blew up into hysteric's in a hurry.
They {Feds} also intercepted a shipment headed to France and another one headed to Germany, made and shipped by 3M.
Well I say fuck 3M who also went with the almighty dollar$$$$$, Damn it to hell America comes first when in crises mode for Fuck sake, it's a little different right now people! No need to have a nervous fuckin break down.
They {Feds} also intercepted a shipment headed to France and another one headed to Germany, made and shipped by 3M.
Well I say fuck 3M who also went with the almighty dollar$$$$$, Damn it to hell America comes first when in crises mode for Fuck sake, it's a little different right now people! No need to have a nervous fuckin break down.
so you think it would be ok if bill gates raised windows licensing to $100k a month, and everyone can go without a PC until they convert to linux?
it is his freaking property and he only lets you use it.
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