Rifle Scopes PRS Scope Options galore: Kahles, Leica, now Horus and Maven

[Winkmeister]

I was looking to set up a Tikka T3x Tac a1 LEFT handed (when I can find one), most likely in 6.5 Cm for an interest to start in PRS (REALLY wish I'd have known of this starting up a few years back; just learned of it in January! smh) as well as use it as a "beanfield rifle" covering open expanses for deer hunting. I was debating between the Kahles (either 624 or newer 525) with the SKMR3 reticle and the new Leica PRS scope with the PRB reticle; leaning towards the Kahles...
then I learned of the Production Class which the rifle qualifies for and those scopes wouldn't. I was quite interested in the Horus as its reticle is designed for such uses and can come as a quality package with anemometer and range finder... then I found the Maven with another interesting reticle and apparent quality design and construction also in that price range-- in fact, $400 off if ordered by the 6th.
Being here on the Wisconsin border I have to also consider the popular Vortex and their suitable offering, the Razor HD.
Any opinions here as to the lack of benefit of shooting Production class? or is a beginner doing well to stay qualified? I am in the Upper Midwest and may go to the Northern Rockies; I understand that that Class/ Category isn't always offered/ acknowledged at different events.
Anyone looked through more than one of these scopes outdoors to give a comparison? I've not been able to find much. Thanks for your suggestions. You will see that as the discussion evolves I will try to maintain a ranking of favorites.

I will add the links that I was using here; if not allowed, message me and I will remove.
If not specified above, I am interested in the mentioned model with the "Christmas tree" reticle in Mils/MRADs.

The Production Class qualifiers:
Horus Scope Bundle

www.horusvision.com

RS.4 - 5-30x56 FFP
Buy Maven Outdoor Equipment Company RS.1 Riflescopes. Our RS Series Riflescopes stack up with the most celebrated and expensive scopes in the world…bar none.

mavenbuilt.com

Razor HD 5-20x50 FFP

Please Select Reticle | 35mm Tube

vortexoptics.com

vs. the non-Production Class (Open) qualifiers:
KAHLES: Riflescopes

www.kahles.at

Models // Leica PRS // Leica Riflescopes // Hunting // Sport Optics - Leica Camera AG
Leica PRS Leica’s first focal plane long-range specialist with 6x zoom.

us.leica-camera.com

 

[sleeplz]

I'd stay away from horus packages. The guys that run that company dont even use horus scopes.

 

[jetjock07]

If you’re wanting to stay production class, you can’t go wrong with a Gen 2 Razor. The Razor is a great scope for the money. Also you can find the Steiner T5Xi 5-25 for a go deal right now.

 

[Winkmeister]

If you’re wanting to stay production class, you can’t go wrong with a Gen 2 Razor. The Razor is a great scope for the money. Also you can find the Steiner T5Xi 5-25 for a go deal right now.

Looking at the Vortex site, the full size start at 2500 MSRP and wouldn't be eligible for Production, unless there's been yet another rule change that I'm not aware of- and the smaller one is short-medium range...

 

[Winkmeister]

I'd stay away from horus packages. The guys that run that company dont even use horus scopes.

Interesting. Are they using NightForce? Is that a sister company?? I notice they're both in the same town in Idaho-- Orofino, I believe.

 

[jetjock07]

Looking at the Vortex site, the full size start at 2500 MSRP and wouldn't be eligible for Production, unless there's been yet another rule change that I'm not aware of- and the smaller one is short-medium range...View attachment 7366098

I was thinking cap was 2500. But just looked and had numbers reversed. 2500 for rifle and 2000 for scope. Yep, the Razor wouldn’t allow for production class. My bad

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

IMO, the Bushnell XRS2 is the king of production optics unless you insist on .2 mil markings on the reticle. I've never needed them personally, and run the hell out of the G3.

 

[Winkmeister]

I was thinking cap was 2500. But just looked and had numbers reversed. 2500 for rifle and 2000 for scope. Yep, the Razor wouldn’t allow for production class. My bad

Didn't realize the rifle had gone up again, thought it was 2k and 2k. It would make it easier if the numbers were as you first said, then I would get the Kahles, I believe.
Not going to re-open the rifle selection side-- am limited with Lefty options to start...
Hmmm. If taking out Horus, then the unknown Maven vs. the popular Vortex, which does have the regular Razor HD:

 

[littlepod]

Tract 4.5-30x56 would work for production class?

 

[CrabsandFootball]

I would say don't get caught up in the production class bullshit with other cucked guns. Get the best you can and practice with it, and compete against yourself. Don't worry about trying to win the special Olympics.

IMO if your going to spend Kahles money, just get the ZCO. If you upgrade your rifle down the road, you will already have one of the top 2 scopes in production.

 

[Winkmeister]

IMO, the Bushnell XRS2 is the king of production optics unless you insist on .2 mil markings on the reticle. I've never needed them personally, and run the hell out of the G3.

You've given me a serious consideration with that one-- and it comes in FDE, which would probably look good on the Tikka in Coyote Brown.
I see that there is two Horus reticles and the G3 in illum. or not. Is an illuminated reticle favorable for PRS or similar? I'm sure the battery can be removed for hunting use in states that don't allow them.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

You've given me a serious consideration with that one-- and it comes in FDE, which would probably look good on the Tikka in Coyote Brown.
I see that there is two Horus reticles and the G3 in illum. or not. Is an illuminated reticle favorable for PRS or similar? I'm sure the battery can be removed for hunting use in states that don't allow them.

I've never shot a PRS match that I can think of where an illuminated reticle would have mattered. The *SOLE* exception is one of the rare night, suppressed only matches. If you think you'd go shoot one of those (and they're few and far between), then illuminated makes all the sense in the world.

Another consideration is the center of the G3i reticle is thicker than the standard G3.

 

[Winkmeister]

Tract 4.5-30x56 would work for production class?

It does... MSRP under 1700. (smh)

TORIC UHD 4.5-30X56 34mm MRAD ELR FFP Rifle Scope

This extreme long range rifle scope is specifically designed for the shooter looking to maximize the performance of his cartridge.

tractoptics.com

Shaking my head, because it's another viable contender. Really like that reticle; a good mix between the clean G3 and the filled up Horus options. And it has a clear center with the crosspoint dot present.
Components and design seem to be top tier; most every desirable feature in place.
Current standings: Bushnell and Tract tied for first consideration.
Maven unknown; anybody experienced with them?
ZCO is a future project/ "build" level item (and YET ANOTHER scope company out of Orofino!)-- the Kahles I was looking at was over 2k, not 3k.
Will keep this initial build at Production class budget, though appreciate CrabsAndFootball's encouragement and humor.
Vortex not listed; though all of my spotting scopes, monoculars, and tripods are from them.
Disappointed that the Horus guys don't even use their own; hence why I suspect they're choosing from another part of the corporate portfolio if that is the case...

 

[sleeplz]

Interesting. Are they using NightForce? Is that a sister company?? I notice they're both in the same town in Idaho-- Orofino, I believe.

They are not a sister company. The training side of horus just understands that those scopes are not up to par so they dont use them. I'd take advice above and stay away from production class. Just buy what you can afford and enjoy, so that you get clear reliable glass in your free time when you're not competing in production class.

Production class is dumb, and a 4.5k rig being "production" doesn't make sense.

 

[HousePlant]

I almost bought the Maven, but then I studied the reticle harder and compared it to the Delta Stryker's. The Delta has useful info in the tree at every MIL. The Maven skips every MIL and in the off MILs there's just a couple dots. To me that's a miss and caused me to decide on giving up the $1400 presale.

The Maven is going to largely be the same as a Delta Stryker and all of those LOW optics that have that same/similar specification. They're great scopes, especially now that they have a real zero stop instead of that stupid friction stop design on the RS.3. If the reticle was on point, I'd have ordered it.

 

[HousePlant]

May also consider the Meopta Optika6 5-30x56 which has a nice reticle (the Meopta MRAD RD). I have one on order for $808 to my door... if it ever shows.

 

[srt-4_uk]

Dont forget the Athlon Cronus. MSRP is under $2k. Street price is significantly under.

Top Rated Rifle Scope Cronus BTR | Athlon Optics

The new Cronus BTR top rated rifle scope works for precision long-range shooting, tactical applications, or extreme long range hunting adventures.

athlonoptics.com

 

[HousePlant]

Also: https://sightmark.com/product.php?item=63

 

[Winkmeister]

So many great options; appreciate the input.
Current standings:
1. Athlon Cronus BTR (but with APRS reticle, in Bronze) Thanks for the intro srt-4_uk

Cronus BTR 4.5-29×56 APRS FFP IR MIL Rifle Scopes

Our Cronus BTR 4.5-29×56 APRS FFP IR MIL has been rated as one of the best rifle scopes out there! Perfect for tactical applications or long range shooting.

athlonoptics.com

2T. Bushnell XRS II (Brown with G3 reticle? or Black with one of the Horus reticles)

Buy Elite Tactical XRS II 4.5-30x50 Riflescope and More | Bushnell

Shopping for the Elite Tactical XRS II 4.5-30x50 Riflescope - Learn more about the latest Full Control and other hunting or shooting gear at Bushnell.

www.bushnell.com

2T. Tract Toric 4.5-30x56
https://tractoptics.com/riflescopes...m-ffp-mrad-elr-extreme-long-range-rifle-scope

3. Maven rs.4

RS.4 - 5-30x56 FFP

Buy Maven Outdoor Equipment Company RS.1 Riflescopes. Our RS Series Riflescopes stack up with the most celebrated and expensive scopes in the world…bar none.

mavenbuilt.com

--unknown company, how long can a lifetime warranty be good for? Pre-sale ends tonight, so $400 incentive does as well... I do like that it's illumination is in both red and green; CFR-MIL is a nice reticle too, wish it had a smidge more open space right at cross point.

4. Vortex Razor HD
-- has appealing brown which would go with Coyote Brown rifle (I know, I know-- lived in Wyoming 20 years so Function Over Form, but if you're going to have 5 grand in something it might as well appeal to the eye as well.), but has oddball 35 mm tube and only a 50 mm objective lens.

 

[sleeplz]

Of those choices, I'd go vortex gen 2. Not sure if you have alot of prs matches that happen around you, but you can spectate and check out what people are using. Or volunteer as an RO and between lag times, ask/look at optics.

This way you get to see exactly what you want to buy instead of reading people's opinions.

 

[Winkmeister]

Of those choices, I'd go vortex gen 2. Not sure if you have alot of prs matches that happen around you, but you can spectate and check out what people are using. Or volunteer as an RO and between lag times, ask/look at optics.

This way you get to see exactly what you want to buy instead of reading people's opinions.

Staying under $2k MSRP..., I don't believe the Vortex Gen 2 qualifies for Production Level (as shown above). I think they should have a greater allowance on the glass than the rifle... instead of the rifle going to 2500, as I've been told, the glass would've opened up a LOT of options had it gone to 2500 instead.
Thanks for the suggestions. I will look into that.

 

[littlepod]

So many great options; appreciate the input.
Current standings:
1. Athlon Cronus BTR (but with APRS reticle, in Bronze) Thanks for the intro srt-4_uk

Cronus BTR 4.5-29×56 APRS FFP IR MIL Rifle Scopes

Our Cronus BTR 4.5-29×56 APRS FFP IR MIL has been rated as one of the best rifle scopes out there! Perfect for tactical applications or long range shooting.

athlonoptics.com

2T. Bushnell XRS II (Brown with G3 reticle? or Black with one of the Horus reticles)

Buy Elite Tactical XRS II 4.5-30x50 Riflescope and More | Bushnell

Shopping for the Elite Tactical XRS II 4.5-30x50 Riflescope - Learn more about the latest Full Control and other hunting or shooting gear at Bushnell.

www.bushnell.com

2T. Tract Toric 4.5-30x56
https://tractoptics.com/riflescopes...m-ffp-mrad-elr-extreme-long-range-rifle-scope

3. Maven rs.4

RS.4 - 5-30x56 FFP

Buy Maven Outdoor Equipment Company RS.1 Riflescopes. Our RS Series Riflescopes stack up with the most celebrated and expensive scopes in the world…bar none.

mavenbuilt.com

--unknown company, how long can a lifetime warranty be good for? Pre-sale ends tonight, so $400 incentive does as well... I do like that it's illumination is in both red and green; CFR-MIL is a nice reticle too, wish it had a smidge more open space right at cross point.

4. Vortex Razor HD
-- has appealing brown which would go with Coyote Brown rifle (I know, I know-- lived in Wyoming 20 years so Function Over Form, but if you're going to have 5 grand in something it might as well appeal to the eye as well.), but has oddball 35 mm tube and only a 50 mm objective lens.

One of the silliest reasons why I never went with the Vortex was exactly that...

CFR-Mil, I've only used normal tree reticles with like lines every 1 MIL, the every other mil thing is interesting.

I'm 1 month into the Tract scope now and ran it in 2 matches. I really like it. I was surprised at how quickly I got used to the locking elevation turrets. When I switch to my other rifle/scopes I keep trying to unlock the turrets lol.

The reticle has been great, but the holdovers are only usable above 12x, otherwise my eyes can't make them out well.

 

[Winkmeister]

If you're set on production limits, how about the xtriii 3.3-18? Msrp under 2k, and you could pick one up in the px for way cheaper than that

Dang! I used to have a Burris scope when I shot .22 silhouettes that I really liked. And an American product is always of interest.
I am surprised, in fact I am writing them, but the MSRPs on those are just over 2k... Barely!

XTR III | Burris Optics

www.burrisoptics.com

 

[HousePlant]

It's too bad there's no "budget class" where the rifle must be <$600 MSRP and the optic must be <$1K MSRP (and made in any country other than China).

 

[Winkmeister]

It's too bad there's no "budget class" where the rifle must be <$600 MSRP and the optic must be <$1K MSRP (and made in any country other than China).

Agreed. 100%
Of course, I was thinking of calling it "Jaeger" or Hunter Class instead-- as a step into Production...
and, just as one has different colored tees at a golf course, the Jaeger course could be capped at 600 yards.

 

[Winkmeister]

I must comment that-- and not just in this particular thread- that Leupold is ABSENT from discussions.
Not even a whisper!

 

[HousePlant]

Leupold would get my money if they had a SIMPLE tree reticle in MIL. It's either the ridiculously dense screen door stuff or hunting reticles... or paying near European optic prices. I'm confused as to why they are so dense to what people want. Great quality products, a lot of it made in the USA, but... common.

 

[NewsShooter]

Hard to beat the Athlon Cronus IMO, I prefer their reticles to most others. While some say they don't use the .2 mil marks I use them all the time in twitchy winds like this past weekend. .4 to .8 wind holds going back and forth the whole match.

 

[Jcrios014]

I'll add my 2cents like everyone else, a couple of years ago I shot production class with a RPR and and Burris XTR II. FFWD to 2020 and the only thing I kept from that year was the bipod and the game-changer bag. With that said if your goal is to move up to the open class and upgrade your gear you can find some pretty sweet deals on the PX for glass that fits the production class price point and later when you resell it you wont take a big hit $$. However, if $$ is not a considerations than go for what ever glass in the $2k MSRP. Your first year shooting is mostly about learning how to shoot from unstable positions, managing recoil, and wind calls. Glass quality/clarity was something I didn't even notice until the end of the season.

 

[Winkmeister]

Msrp on the 3.3-18 is under 2000
The next magnification level is over 2000 but 18x is plenty for anything

No, the MSRP (not street or common price) as listed at Burris's website -as the link given should've shown- on the 3.3-18 is 2039. This was the forty bucks that I meant earlier, and did indeed write to them about; they might have to work a tad to get the second option down to 1999 and be competitive as well.
Now if there's a rules committee that approves models based on introductory or historical price points, that is something I'm new to. Is there a master list of approved models for that class? or is it just the current MSRP??
As mentioned elsewhere, I'd hope that identical models that exceed the MSRP threshold because of a color option or in the case of rifles, action handedness, would be allowed-- incremental changes that advance it over the course of years should also be exempt (however they choose to address that)... Thanks

 

[steve123]

What happens is when a new guy, and well many guys, who go to a PRS or NRL match, that all you are doing is making a donation with your entry fee, or you can look at it as paying for the experience. It takes years and 10's of thousands of rounds to approach the top shooters.
That being said I wouldn't feel like the odd man out by going production class because you just might get a decent prize at the end of the match vs getting a funky prize that's not worth having when shooting with the main pack of experienced shooters.

Buy a used Cronus, when or if, you decide you like something better you won't be out hardly any money, if or when, you sell it.

I used the old Bushnell HDMR/H59 for years and it was a good scope except it lacked a bunch of modern features. Glass wasn't great but I won matches with it. Had 3 and none failed.

 

[Winkmeister]

What happens when a new guy, and well many guys, goes to a PRS or NRL match, all you are doing is making a donation with your entry fee, or you can look at it as paying for the experience. It takes years and 10's of thousands of rounds to approach the top shooters.
That being said I wouldn't feel like the odd man out by going production class because you just might get a decent prize at the end of the match vs getting a funky prize that's not worth having when shooting with the main pack of experienced shooters.

Buy a used Cronus, when or if, you decide you like something better you won't be out hardly any money, if or when, you sell it.

I used an old Bushnell HDMR/H59 for years and it was a good scope except it lacked a bunch of modern features. Glass wasn't great but I won matches with it. Had 3 and none failed.

Solid advice. Thank you.

 

[craff22]

FYI...

History - Horus Vision

New Ownership The LightForce Group has acquired the business of Horus Vision on 07/19/2016. Dr. Ray Dennis is delighted to add the legendary product offerings of the Horus Vision portfolio under a new business known as HVRT Corp. This company joins his Group of Companies also encompassing...

www.horusvision.com

And for what it's worth I actually own the Horus system and I could not speak more highly of it. It was super affordable and easy to use. The optic is by far the best optic I have ever used at that price point, even outhitting some of the upper class optics.

Best of luck!

 

[zaprosper]

Leupold would get my money if they had a SIMPLE tree reticle in MIL. It's either the ridiculously dense screen door stuff or hunting reticles... or paying near European optic prices. I'm confused as to why they are so dense to what people want. Great quality products, a lot of it made in the USA, but... common.

Agree with almost all of what you said, minus the great quality products. That version of Leupold has passed

 

[chevy_man]

Leupold would get my money if they had a SIMPLE tree reticle in MIL. It's either the ridiculously dense screen door stuff or hunting reticles... or paying near European optic prices. I'm confused as to why they are so dense to what people want. Great quality products, a lot of it made in the USA, but... common.

I love the TMR. Simple and easy. They just decided to offer Horus rather than spend the r&d on anything else. Not to mention the .mil contracts have been focused on Horus for far too long.
Some guys are raving about the cch, but I haven't used it.

 

[HousePlant]

The CCH is good, but it's trying to do too much and I don't understand why .25 mil was used vs. .2 -- just match what the turret can dial and don't create unnecessary complication! Then there's the dots past the line subtensions on the tree. I suppose I understand why that was done (you're basically going to be roughing it that far out for a wind hold) but... are you really? The dots on the lines MIL level are confusing - going from lines to dots making me think I'm on the MIL level above. It's not crisp. The moving target chevrons on the CCH are a good idea but the windage holdover subtensions are more then sufficient for the job, especially if you're also holding for elevation. They just act as a distraction, IMO. I just don't understand why a Leupold optic with the CCH reticle is more expensive... why? It's their reticle. Stop being ridiculous. I get it if its the H59 or the other licensed ones, not CCH.

Even Sightmark had an easier to grasp reticle in 2017.