Ford Trucks

Hobo Hilton

Hobo Hilton

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Minuteman
Jun 4, 2011
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Pacific Northwest
#1
I'm not picking on Ford. Dodge and GM are doing the same thing. When America can't roll 1/2 ton pickups off assembly lines.... It's time to sit up and take notice of how bad things have gotten.

www.reuters.com

Ford partly assembling some vehicles, idling two plants due to chip shortage

Ford Motor Co said on Thursday it will for now assemble its flagship, highly profitable F-150 pickup trucks and Edge SUVs in North America without certain parts and idle two assembly plants due to the global semiconductor chip shortage.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 
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#2
Hobo Hilton said:
I'm not picking on Ford. Dodge and GM are doing the same thing. When America can't roll 1/2 ton pickups off assembly lines.... It's time to sit up and take notice of how bad things have gotten.

www.reuters.com

Ford partly assembling some vehicles, idling two plants due to chip shortage

Ford Motor Co said on Thursday it will for now assemble its flagship, highly profitable F-150 pickup trucks and Edge SUVs in North America without certain parts and idle two assembly plants due to the global semiconductor chip shortage.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
Click to expand...
It’s a good thing that we can get critical parts for the military from China.
 
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#4
China isn't the only one that has the capability, they're just the only ones who can do it cheaply.

Everywhere else is going to drown in red tape dealing with some of the rare earth's and heavy metals or has zero infrastructure.
 
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#5
China controls several key mining operations critical to the (not really) Rare Earth Elements. We allowed our mines to dry up (1990s) as they flooded the market with cheap RE w/o regard to any sort of environmental controls (which is why they could do so cheaply).

Long story short, China controls the Rare Earth market now and we don't do dick about it even though we could as Rare Earths aren't rare, but there is no $$ in it. And Rare Earths are key in semiconductor chip mfg.

ALSO WHY THE HELL DOES A TRUCK COST AS MUCH AS A LUXURY CAR!! Man I hate spending money.

Want a truck. Not that damn bad.
 
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#6
DocRDS said:
China controls several key mining operations critical to the (not really) Rare Earth Elements. We allowed our mines to dry up (1990s) as they flooded the market with cheap RE w/o regard to any sort of environmental controls (which is why they could do so cheaply).

Long story short, China controls the Rare Earth market now and we don't do dick about it even though we could as Rare Earths aren't rare, but there is no $$ in it. And Rare Earths are key in semiconductor chip mfg.

ALSO WHY THE HELL DOES A TRUCK COST AS MUCH AS A LUXURY CAR!! Man I hate spending money.

Want a truck. Not that damn bad.
Click to expand...

Why do PRS suitable rifles cost so much more than Wal-Mart rifles?
 
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#7
Ford trucks cost more because they are not underwritten by your tax dollars. GM and Chrysler are both funded by tax dollars and majority owned by unions. Ford worked thru their problems in 2008 without corporate welfare or screwing their shareholders, unlike those other companies.

I'm okay with Ford moving factories to Mexico, it keeps people in Mexico for starters and it saves billions in UAW wages and communist extortion level taxes under our new leftist government.
 
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#9
Id never own or drive a car that is going to track me god bless em and I wish them well with there cars but its not something I would ever be into or willing to spend my money on .
 
#10
Guys, silicon IC production doesn't have much to do with "rare earths"; you may be confused with the fancy magnets inside synchronous electric motors. And China, despite its best efforts, isn't yet the dominant player in global IC production. The flipside of that is also that the US is no longer the dominant player in global IC production 😔

Instead, this issue has been caused by a really weird distortion of capital allocation in the semiconductor industry that goes back 15-20 years, combined with the automotive industry's shitty treatment of suppliers, combined with the general fuckary of the last year and its effects on every industry, combined with the simple fact that damn near everything more complicated than a loaf of bread contains at least one IC. It's one of the bigger clusterfucks I've seen during my time in the auto industry.

And yes, if you are running an automotive assembly plant and your choice is to build partial vehicles or no vehicles at all, you're gonna stack up half-built stuff in every parking lot you can find, because the cost of idling those plants is astronomical.
 
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#11
''Ford Motor Co said on Thursday it will for now assemble its flagship, highly profitable F-150 pickup trucks and Edge SUVs in North America'' = Mexico

Wages%20in%20Mexico%20vs%20China-1.png


Union warns Ohio workers that Ford plans to move new vehicle construction to Mexico​

https://thehill.com/policy/transpor...o-workers-that-ford-plans-to-move-new-vehicle
 
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#12
I will say this, i am a mechanic and i own a small, i mean just me, oil feild buisness. I have tortured every kind of pickup truck on the worst dirt trails in Texas, Pennsylvania, new Mexico, Louisiana, and Mississippi. I choose a 2004 ford ranger 4x4 tremor for my every day beater. I would never own anything made after 2005 or so, even now the bcm is fried and the wipers and windows wont work unless i take it to the dealership and buy a spare key that cost basically what i paid for the broke down truck when i bought it. Other than that i have a 1991 camaro and foxbody mustang and a 1973 postal jeep. I did have a 90s toyota sr5 that took a real beating for a long time and kept up good also. I wont buy something i cant fix myself.
 
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#13
I read on their website that Ford supported BLM in theory and $$$$$ last year while city’s were being burned down and people getting rocks smashed into their head. Apparently they like American $$$$$ but not it’s work force and freedoms.
A new ram bighorn and a challenger now sit in my driveway.
 
Last edited:
#14
A camaro and a mustang in the same garage. Good grief that's some crazy shit
Texasflyer said:
I will say this, i am a mechanic and i own a small, i mean just me, oil feild buisness. I have tortured every kind of pickup truck on the worst dirt trails in Texas, Pennsylvania, new Mexico, Louisiana, and Mississippi. I choose a 2004 ford ranger 4x4 tremor for my every day beater. I would never own anything made after 2005 or so, even now the bcm is fried and the wipers and windows wont work unless i take it to the dealership and buy a spare key that cost basically what i paid for the broke down truck when i bought it. Other than that i have a 1991 camaro and foxbody mustang and a 1973 postal jeep. I did have a 90s toyota sr5 that took a real beating for a long time and kept up good also. I wont buy something i cant fix myself.
Click to expand...
 
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#20
I think its the new fords, maybe chevy, but i have heard that to replace the radiator now they have to lift the cab off to get it out. I tell the granola girls i build broke down cars to help save the planet, then i smile when they get happy about the sound of squealing tires and gutted cats rewelded to look stock.
 
#21
Hobo Hilton said:
I'm not picking on Ford. Dodge and GM are doing the same thing. When America can't roll 1/2 ton pickups off assembly lines.... It's time to sit up and take notice of how bad things have gotten.

www.reuters.com

Ford partly assembling some vehicles, idling two plants due to chip shortage

Ford Motor Co said on Thursday it will for now assemble its flagship, highly profitable F-150 pickup trucks and Edge SUVs in North America without certain parts and idle two assembly plants due to the global semiconductor chip shortage.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
Click to expand...
My local Chevy dealer has 3 new silverado's for sale on the lot they just got in late this week.

That's the first time in quite a few months that they've had a new truck sitting out front. The few that have trickled in have been sold before they were delivered. They are definitely having supply problems.
 
#22
Mister Ridge said:
Without talking about plate readers, I wonder how far back you'd have to go to get one that doesn't. I also wonder how hard it would be to disable the connectivity of modern cars.
Click to expand...
I am amazed, frequently, at the "ingenuity" of people in 3rd world countries and how they keep vehicles going. It's not rocket science to take the basic components of a vehicle and make it mobile... Cuba is a good example of keeping the old iron rolling. A dying breed here in America.

Hobo
 
#23
DocRDS said:
China controls several key mining operations critical to the (not really) Rare Earth Elements. We allowed our mines to dry up (1990s) as they flooded the market with cheap RE w/o regard to any sort of environmental controls (which is why they could do so cheaply).

Long story short, China controls the Rare Earth market now and we don't do dick about it even though we could as Rare Earths aren't rare, but there is no $$ in it. And Rare Earths are key in semiconductor chip mfg.

ALSO WHY THE HELL DOES A TRUCK COST AS MUCH AS A LUXURY CAR!! Man I hate spending money.

Want a truck. Not that damn bad.
Click to expand...
Because on the upper end, trucks now have similar/same luxury as luxury cars do.
I just bought a F250. $81k. Same as my 2019 Audi A8. Close, not quite to the luxury standard. Plus it tows my fifth wheel.

On edit: I forgot... go be poor somewhere else.
 
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#27
mcfred said:
And in 10 years your $81,000 toy will be worth about $500 in scrap iron. I'm not too bright, but that seems like a pretty poor return on investment.

Meh, better you than me.
Click to expand...
Except that's not true with trucks. Car's yes. Trucks hold their value MUCH better. You'd be surprised I think. You're paying more for steel as opposed to electronic gadgets.

Though it is true that if you load up your small $20K SUV with the $20K extra "luxury" gadget and "safety" package, both are worth about the same $2K in 10 years.
 
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#28
mcfred said:
And in 10 years your $81,000 toy will be worth about $500 in scrap iron. I'm not too bright, but that seems like a pretty poor return on investment.

Meh, better you than me.
Click to expand...
Well let's see. I had my last truck, Dodge diesel, for 17 years. Bought it at $35k, sold it for $20k. Not really that bad for all the use I got out of it. $20k is better than $500. Certainly a helluva lot better return than the ex wife I had for the same length of time. You wanna take over the payments on that one?

I'm willing to bet you're one of those guys who think a Savage is just as good as an AI and you saved thousands with the Savage. That's cool. You do you. I will do me.
 
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#29
mcfred said:
And in 10 years your $81,000 toy will be worth about $500 in scrap iron. I'm not too bright, but that seems like a pretty poor return on investment.

Meh, better you than me.
Click to expand...

Not quite. I've been looking at 10 year old trucks. I paid 3500 for a 10 year old 1 ton in 2010. A 2010 is going for $20-30k right now. And I'm only looking at the work truck models, since it's a damn truck and I use them as such. One of my idiot buddies just paid $55k for a 3 year old, 80k mile Denali Duramax. He thinks it was great since a new one is $85k.


Mister Ridge said:
Without talking about plate readers, I wonder how far back you'd have to go to get one that doesn't. I also wonder how hard it would be to disable the connectivity of modern cars.
Click to expand...

My 03 Denali has onstar, but they didn't come with a digital cell antenna until 04. So for all intents and purposes it's unable to communicate.
 
#30
chevy_man said:
Not quite. I've been looking at 10 year old trucks. I paid 3500 for a 10 year old 1 ton in 2010. A 2010 is going for $20-30k right now. And I'm only looking at the work truck models, since it's a damn truck and I use them as such. One of my idiot buddies just paid $55k for a 3 year old, 80k mile Denali Duramax. He thinks it was great since a new one is $85k.




My 03 Denali has onstar, but they didn't come with a digital cell antenna until 04. So for all intents and purposes it's unable to communicate.
Click to expand...
Passenger side of the firewall under the dashoard is the gps. Doesnt matter what antenna you cut. Ever seen an antenna on a garmin?
 
#32
E. Bryant said:
Guys, silicon IC production doesn't have much to do with "rare earths"; you may be confused with the fancy magnets inside synchronous electric motors. And China, despite its best efforts, isn't yet the dominant player in global IC production. The flipside of that is also that the US is no longer the dominant player in global IC production 😔

Instead, this issue has been caused by a really weird distortion of capital allocation in the semiconductor industry that goes back 15-20 years, combined with the automotive industry's shitty treatment of suppliers, combined with the general fuckary of the last year and its effects on every industry, combined with the simple fact that damn near everything more complicated than a loaf of bread contains at least one IC. It's one of the bigger clusterfucks I've seen during my time in the auto industry.

And yes, if you are running an automotive assembly plant and your choice is to build partial vehicles or no vehicles at all, you're gonna stack up half-built stuff in every parking lot you can find, because the cost of idling those plants is astronomical.
Click to expand...

Actually many of the IC components do take Rare Earths. They are all over the place. But yes the "Biggie" is Neodynium for magnets. But they all get used somewhere, from refining to water treatment (well there is one that is super rare, but like 16/17 of them). And a large portion is IC mfg. Taiwan controns Silicon. China controls RE. IIRC Mainly Intel produces chips in the US. TI does some but lost most of the business to ROC but its not much in the game (shutting down plants). AMD is done domestically. (I may be wrong). There are bit players after that, but Tawain craps on their lunch break bigger than them.

81k for a vehicle? pass. That's a lot o ammo ;)
 
#35
DocRDS said:
China controls several key mining operations critical to the (not really) Rare Earth Elements. We allowed our mines to dry up (1990s) as they flooded the market with cheap RE w/o regard to any sort of environmental controls (which is why they could do so cheaply).

Long story short, China controls the Rare Earth market now and we don't do dick about it even though we could as Rare Earths aren't rare, but there is no $$ in it. And Rare Earths are key in semiconductor chip mfg.

ALSO WHY THE HELL DOES A TRUCK COST AS MUCH AS A LUXURY CAR!! Man I hate spending money.

Want a truck. Not that damn bad.
Click to expand...
Because some trucks are like luxury cars now, plus you can haul shit. Not sure how much more luxury and smooth, quiet ride you'd need than what you'd find in a leather trimmed F-150.

I couldn't imagine spending luxury car prices for just a cab on four wheels and no bed to haul shit.
 
#36
One of the downsides of going into science/engineering was I never go to do much shop, so I am pretty useless at cars. I am ashamed.

OTOH, physics made me really good with tools (and electronics) and working with my hands, so I probably should be better. I am still ashamed. I can install and rebuild a 10 million dollar PVD deposition tool, but I can't fix my car. /sad panda.

Back on topic--they really need to make cars without all the crap in them

Motor/bed/windows. F the electronics. All cars are too damn expensive.
 
#37
DocRDS said:
One of the downsides of going into science/engineering was I never go to do much shop, so I am pretty useless at cars. I am ashamed.

OTOH, physics made me really good with tools (and electronics) and working with my hands, so I probably should be better. I am still ashamed. I can install and rebuild a 10 million dollar PVD deposition tool, but I can't fix my car. /sad panda.

Back on topic--they really need to make cars without all the crap in them

Motor/bed/windows. F the electronics. All cars are too damn expensive.
Click to expand...
just rebuild/restore or buy one of the pre electronic bs...

www.ebay.com

1992 Dodge Other Pickups - SEE VIDEO - | eBay

1992 DODGE RAM 250 <br /> <br />*MORE INFO COMING SOON <br />*LOCATED IN SHOWROOM <br />*WE FINANCE / SHIP WORLD WIDE <br />*WE WELCOME 3RD PARTY INSPECTIONS.
www.ebay.com

www.ebay.com

1990 Dodge RAM 250 | eBay

YOU ARE LOOKING AT A VERY NICE RUNNING FIRST GEN DODGE. THE 5 SPEED SHIFTS OUT VERY NICE. THE MOTOR FIRES UP FIRST HALF TURN. TIRES ARE LIKE NEW WITH NO DRY ROTT. YOU WILL RECEIVE THE ORIGINAL TITLE ISSUED IN 1990.
www.ebay.com
 
Last edited:
#38
Sniperwannabee said:
just rebuild/restore or buy one of the pre electronic bs...

www.ebay.com

1992 Dodge Other Pickups - SEE VIDEO - | eBay

1992 DODGE RAM 250 <br /> <br />*MORE INFO COMING SOON <br />*LOCATED IN SHOWROOM <br />*WE FINANCE / SHIP WORLD WIDE <br />*WE WELCOME 3RD PARTY INSPECTIONS.
www.ebay.com

www.ebay.com

1990 Dodge RAM 250 | eBay

YOU ARE LOOKING AT A VERY NICE RUNNING FIRST GEN DODGE. THE 5 SPEED SHIFTS OUT VERY NICE. THE MOTOR FIRES UP FIRST HALF TURN. TIRES ARE LIKE NEW WITH NO DRY ROTT. YOU WILL RECEIVE THE ORIGINAL TITLE ISSUED IN 1990.
www.ebay.com
Click to expand...
My fil had one of those. The problem was the engine kept going long after the rest of the truck rotted away. I would take one in good condition, just know that you have to replace everything inside the cab. From firewall to back panel... everything. And the frame was weak. They derated that engine to keep it in the frame.
 
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#39
Soulezoo said:
My fil had one of those. The problem was the engine kept going long after the rest of the truck rotted away. I would take one in good condition, just know that you have to replace everything inside the cab. From firewall to back panel... everything. And the frame was weak. They derated that engine to keep it in the frame.
Click to expand...
i actually took mine out and put mine in a 04 ford because the roof started rusting out, they redid the frame i think after 91 my 93 frame was put to the test and no problem whatso ever
 
#46
Luxury SUVs tend to depreciate pretty quickly, because their utility is often as a social signal.

Trucks don't depreciate nearly as fast, because a 10-year-old truck still does a decent job at hauling drywall or pushing a snowplow. Now, much of the premium price commanded by a luxury trim level will be lost, but expensive features like diesel engines tend to be reflected in the resale price throughout the truck's life.

What's quite nice is the profit margin on a $81k truck, which typically costs considerably less to build than a $81k luxury sedan. The OEMs who get to mark up a pickup from $30k to $80k by adding some fancy interior trim are laughing their way to the bank (which is pretty much their only source of humor nowadays, considering the brutal difficulty of making money in any other segment of the auto market).

DocRDS said:
Actually many of the IC components do take Rare Earths. They are all over the place. But yes the "Biggie" is Neodynium for magnets. But they all get used somewhere, from refining to water treatment (well there is one that is super rare, but like 16/17 of them). And a large portion is IC mfg. Taiwan controns Silicon. China controls RE. IIRC Mainly Intel produces chips in the US. TI does some but lost most of the business to ROC but its not much in the game (shutting down plants). AMD is done domestically. (I may be wrong). There are bit players after that, but Tawain craps on their lunch break bigger than them.

81k for a vehicle? pass. That's a lot o ammo ;)
Click to expand...

Yes, rare earths are used in certain types of electronics (displays and LEDs, for example), but this is not causing the current semiconductor shortage - it's fab capacity. Here is ON Semi's comment on the matter:


The parts used in automotive are almost exclusively built overseas on 200mm lines. There hasn't been any CapEx in this technology for 15-20 years; AFAIK, NXP never even replaced the capacity lost from the Sendai Freescale plant in the 2011 tsunami. And now that's caught up to everyone in a big way.
 
#48
E. Bryant said:
Luxury SUVs tend to depreciate pretty quickly, because their utility is often as a social signal.

Trucks don't depreciate nearly as fast, because a 10-year-old truck still does a decent job at hauling drywall or pushing a snowplow. Now, much of the premium price commanded by a luxury trim level will be lost, but expensive features like diesel engines tend to be reflected in the resale price throughout the truck's life.

What's quite nice is the profit margin on a $81k truck, which typically costs considerably less to build than a $81k luxury sedan. The OEMs who get to mark up a pickup from $30k to $80k by adding some fancy interior trim are laughing their way to the bank (which is pretty much their only source of humor nowadays, considering the brutal difficulty of making money in any other segment of the auto market).



Yes, rare earths are used in certain types of electronics (displays and LEDs, for example), but this is not causing the current semiconductor shortage - it's fab capacity. Here is ON Semi's comment on the matter:


The parts used in automotive are almost exclusively built overseas on 200mm lines. There hasn't been any CapEx in this technology for 15-20 years; AFAIK, NXP never even replaced the capacity lost from the Sendai Freescale plant in the 2011 tsunami. And now that's caught up to everyone in a big way.
Click to expand...
I think I worked at one of the last US 200mm plants that shut down circla 2006 (KFab Texas Instruments)
 
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#49
mcfred said:
Clip the antenna: radio silence. Done.
Click to expand...
No it doesn’t work like that. We get stolen cars all the time at work that people think they can rip of the antenna or rearview mirrors and it no longer able to be tracked after they are stolen. Maybe on some older mode that worked.
 
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