Low Tech or Ancient Weapons

Longshot231 · Apr 15, 2023

I must admit that I've had a fascination with ancient weaponry. The ingenuity, on the other hand, used by ancient peoples to hunt wild game or dispatch their enemies with very little material to get the job done is amazing.

Also used in survival situations and where firearms are prohibited and unaffordable, ancient or low-tech weapons come into play.

I've played around with traditional archery as well as modern compound bows. The compound bows were all sold off. They were too complex for me to use and maintain. So I have a couple older recurve crossbows, longbows and recuves.

So traditional archery for my hunting is as low tech as far as I've "regressed." On the other hand, I've used a baseball bat as a weapon before in self-defense situations. It also works as a deterent!

So I'd like to start a thread on ancient or low tech weapons. I'll start first.

The spear has fascinated me but I really suck at throwing them. Lynn Thompson at Cold Steel has produced some affordable spears. The two latest that I've acquired are the American Hunting Spear and the Maasai Spear. The second is the most badass spear that I've seen yet.

The American Hunting Spear could not be any simpler. All you need to do is purchase the head then get a shovel handle. I did a little filing and sanding for a better fit. Then applied some stain an Tru-Oil.

The Cold Steel Maasai Spear:

The little fat guy isn't liked by some people but he ain't stupid as he's made more money than most of us will in our lifetime.

Bonus video: Where were girls like this when I was younger?

pmclaine · Apr 15, 2023

@Blue Sky Country

Sean the Nailer · Apr 15, 2023

Don't forget the atlatl's.

Longshot231 · Apr 15, 2023

Sean the Nailer said:
Don't forget the atlatl's.

Carbon Express made a carbon fiber version several years ago. I regret not getting one.

sirhrmechanic · Apr 15, 2023

2200 year Roman spear point still lodged in bone.

Nothing primitive about them.

The Assegai is an almost perfect CQB weapon… developed by the Zulus and used with the “head/horns/loins of the bull” tactic, it was devastating even to rifle-equipped enemies.

And still being offered!

Cold Steel 95FS Assegai - Short Shaft

Country Knives carries the largest online and in-store selection of knives and all things cutlery. Learn more about Cold Steel95FSAssegai - Short Shaft.

www.countryknives.com

Sirhr

OldSalty2 · Apr 15, 2023

Lets not forget Lamar's javelin...

Blue Sky Country · Apr 15, 2023

Looking at some of the videos on Kaotic of Nigerian farmers and Christian townsmen carrying out regional defense operations against ISIS faction Boko Haram terrorists, it seems like the farmer-militiaman's typical loadout consists of an AKM rifle, two or three magazines, and 2-3 short brush spears of local design carried on the back and retrieved with one hand motion for an instant throwing or thrusting option during CQB situations.

My main rig I am running right now is a TradTech Titan III ILF riser with Samick R3 carbon-foam core limbs at 60 pounds draw. Traditional combined with high tech materials. Impervious to weather and humidity. I like shooting extremely heavy arrows to take advantage of the carried momentum upon impact and the R3s sling em out at well over 200 FPS. Got a pistol red dot sight on a rail mount attached to the Titan riser's accessories bracket so within 15 yards, all shots are dialed in point and shoot.

Titan III from Tradtech Archery. The PRS of bowhunting rigs. Tradtech also carries ILF limb rails and bolts so anyone can build their own ILF limbs and use them on any ILF riser.

Longshot231 · Apr 15, 2023

I have a couple of Black Widow longbows. A while back they were offering snakeskin backing. I had too many rifle builds in the works at the time and could not justify the expense of another longbow.

On the other hand, it seems to make more sense that a snake skin backed bow would make you a better archer

Seed tick · Apr 15, 2023

Black Window makes great bows!

XLR308 · Apr 15, 2023

Still working on a stone tomahawk blade is motoroil obsidian and handle is American ash, still has a ways to go.
Preforms above the hawk are the same type of obsidian.
Knife is obsidian set in elk horn, i didnt make that one and maybe someday will be able to knap stone that well.
Bottom is Arkansas novaculite spear point preform far from complete and an arrow point i am working on from same stone. The spear point was over 12" inches but i fucked it up

Next project after i finish the hawk and get a little better at pressure flaking will be n Atlatl, allways been fascinated with them.
Man that picture turned out like shit, may need to try again in natural light.

Darayavaus · Apr 15, 2023

sirhrmechanic said:
2200 year Roman spear point still lodged in bone.

View attachment 8120595

Nothing primitive about them.

The Assegai is an almost perfect CQB weapon… developed by the Zulus and used with the “head/horns/loins of the bull” tactic, it was devastating even to rifle-equipped enemies.

And still being offered!

Cold Steel 95FS Assegai - Short Shaft

Country Knives carries the largest online and in-store selection of knives and all things cutlery. Learn more about Cold Steel95FSAssegai - Short Shaft.

www.countryknives.com

Sirhr

I read that the pic in question is actually a trade arrowhead lodged in a bison bone.

a Roman pilium head would have been connected to a long, mild steel rod designed to bend and 'staple' itself to an enemy shield, rendering the shield useless.

sirhrmechanic · Apr 15, 2023

Darayavaus said:
I read that the pic in question is actually a trade arrowhead lodged in a bison bone.

a Roman pilium head would have been connected to a long, mild steel rod designed to bend and 'staple' itself to an enemy shield, rendering the shield useless.

Well damn… that’s what I get for believing the Interwebz!

Thanks for the correction.

Oh and probably would still work on a Commie.

Sirhr

mosin46 · Apr 15, 2023

until the deployment and perfection of firearms,the steppe horse archer was the dominant "weapon" across all of eurasia. didn't have 'em you had to hire them. they did aslo have superior tactics and command/control. could happen again.

Blue Sky Country · Apr 15, 2023

Darayavaus said:
I read that the pic in question is actually a trade arrowhead lodged in a bison bone.

a Roman pilium head would have been connected to a long, mild steel rod designed to bend and 'staple' itself to an enemy shield, rendering the shield useless.

One of Skallagrim's episodes was talking about how the Roman pilum was specifically designed so that enemies cannot pick them up and throw them back. It was designed to break upon any impact, with ground, armor, or flesh and bone. The head lodges in and the shaft falls away. And pilums were produced on an industrial scale, in facilities that almost resemble modern factories that turn out ammo and artillery shells.

Add this to the fact that Romans were already producing steel of known, controlled carbon content and had a working prototype of a crude steam engine known as Hero's Globe, it seems that the Roman Empire had been VERY close to kicking off industrialization over 1000 years ahead of time. Hero's simple action-reaction steam engine would probably not be enough to power land vehicles but large wheel-driven ships would be possible, as well as turning mill wheels and trebuchet cranes for mining operations. Once that was attained, it would be only a matter of time before piston driven engines would come along.

Darayavaus · Apr 15, 2023

Blue Sky Country said:
One of Skallagrim's episodes was talking about how the Roman pilum was specifically designed so that enemies cannot pick them up and throw them back. It was designed to break upon any impact, with ground, armor, or flesh and bone. The head lodges in and the shaft falls away. And pilums were produced on an industrial scale, in facilities that almost resemble modern factories that turn out ammo and artillery shells.

Add this to the fact that Romans were already producing steel of known, controlled carbon content and had a working prototype of a crude steam engine known as Hero's Globe, it seems that the Roman Empire had been VERY close to kicking off industrialization over 1000 years ahead of time. Hero's simple action-reaction steam engine would probably not be enough to power land vehicles but large wheel-driven ships would be possible, as well as turning mill wheels and trebuchet cranes for mining operations. Once that was attained, it would be only a matter of time before piston driven engines would come along.

the Celts were also the inspiration for much Roman weaponry. the Legionnaire helmets were "Gallic type" as they were copied directly from Celtic examples. Chain mail was developed by the Celts and worn by their wealthier warrior aristocracy. La Tene period longswords were perhaps the pinnacle of Iron Age technology, and some examples which were tested in labs can be called steel, of a quality which was not surpassed until the 1800's. Some historians think that the legend of Excalibur originated from an excellent Celtic longsword which was handed down through generations from Pre-Roman Celtic times until the Anglo-Saxon / Briton wars of the Dark Ages.

Longshot231 · Apr 15, 2023

I made this sling a while back. I surprised myself at how far I could hurl a stone!

I wish I could find the video but I watched a show several years ago where they tested the power of the sling. A real slinger from the Balearic Islands slung a stone at a steel plate on a nine foot pole. Behind the plate was measuring equipment that was used to calculate the amount of energy that could have been expended on the target by the stone cast from David's sling. I forget the numbers but it was definitely plausible that he could have inflicted an incapacitating injury on the giant, enabling a decapitation with the Philistine's sword.

I know I'm impressed with how far I can sling a stone with my sling. Not saying that I'm accurate but I wonder if it will work with something like a grenade

Seed tick · Apr 15, 2023

Always wanted to learn to Knapp.

wvfarrier · Apr 15, 2023

mosin46 · Apr 15, 2023

very nice work

sirhrmechanic · Apr 15, 2023

Blue Sky Country said:
One of Skallagrim's episodes was talking about how the Roman pilum was specifically designed so that enemies cannot pick them up and throw them back. It was designed to break upon any impact, with ground, armor, or flesh and bone. The head lodges in and the shaft falls away. And pilums were produced on an industrial scale, in facilities that almost resemble modern factories that turn out ammo and artillery shells.

Add this to the fact that Romans were already producing steel of known, controlled carbon content and had a working prototype of a crude steam engine known as Hero's Globe, it seems that the Roman Empire had been VERY close to kicking off industrialization over 1000 years ahead of time. Hero's simple action-reaction steam engine would probably not be enough to power land vehicles but large wheel-driven ships would be possible, as well as turning mill wheels and trebuchet cranes for mining operations. Once that was attained, it would be only a matter of time before piston driven engines would come along.

The math on the dates doesn't exactly work.... But there is a saying that "If the Libraries at Alexandria had not been burned, the Legions would have radio'd the news of the Crucifiction to Rome."

So much lost there... Wonder if they'll look back in 2-3K years and say "Wow, those 21st Century People sure squandered a lot of knowledge." If I were a betting man, I'd put money on it.

Sirhr

Seed tick · Apr 15, 2023

Impressive work! What you want for the drill?

XLR308 · Apr 15, 2023

Seed tick said:
Always wanted to learn to Knapp.

Its just time, trial and error and some blood shed most every time

I still fuck up more than i finish but mainly use various types of obsidian that is easier to work with but easier to mess up.
Get yourself a piece of elk antler for a billet, a chunk of fairly thick cowhide/leather for pressure flaking and a couple of smaller whitetail antler points for pressure flaking.
I also made an Ishi stick but still not very good with it.
Its pretty entertaing and somewhat relaxing for me anyway.

Seed tick · Apr 15, 2023

Used to be a guy in this area Kit Carson, big arrowhead collector old shit like fulsome points. He was extremely knowledgeable and hosted a Knapp in every year on his farm. Never got a chance to go. My loss big time!

buffalowinter · Apr 15, 2023

In 1969, while serving with Recon Team Pick in MACV-SOG, SSG Graham would put his bow and arrows to real use on a prisoner snatch mission. The mission entailed infiltrating Cambodia’s Fishhook, an enemy-controlled area located about 50 miles northwest of Saigon.

assets%2F068e3e7817cb4351b71538fa2436cbc2%2Fbe247161edbb405e8fb0490897776e8a

Bows were commonly used to set fires

And of course, the Montangard with their crossbows.

It doesn't get much more primitive than this

cas6969 · Apr 15, 2023

I like to duck hunt with a primitive setup. Looks sort of like this.

9eacc79aa679b46ae64da756d82a1504646250c3a2943ce92202de501931b8e0.jpeg

Very effective, but it tends to upset the other people at the mill pond, especially the children.

akmike47 · Apr 15, 2023

Sean the Nailer said:
Don't forget the atlatl's.

I made one before, they are fun.

Longshot231 · Apr 15, 2023

Anyone here remember the lawn darts?

Thwy were inspired by the Roman Plumbata:

RUTGERS95 · Apr 15, 2023

sirhrmechanic said:
2200 year Roman spear point still lodged in bone.

View attachment 8120595

Nothing primitive about them.

The Assegai is an almost perfect CQB weapon… developed by the Zulus and used with the “head/horns/loins of the bull” tactic, it was devastating even to rifle-equipped enemies.

And still being offered!

Cold Steel 95FS Assegai - Short Shaft

Country Knives carries the largest online and in-store selection of knives and all things cutlery. Learn more about Cold Steel95FSAssegai - Short Shaft.

www.countryknives.com

Sirhr

that's an amazing picture

akmike47 · Apr 15, 2023

RUTGERS95 said:
that's an amazing picture

Pretty sure a few of our members were around when that happened.

eca7891 · Apr 15, 2023

Where is the trebuchet?

eca7891 · Apr 15, 2023

Speaking thereof.

I would like to see a a tank get hit with a full scale siege weapon like that.

acudaowner · Apr 15, 2023

MV5BYmIyYTZlZTYtMTA1ZS00ODQ0LTk2OTktNDA4MGJlZDI1YmMzXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNTg2ODExNzA@._V1_FMjpg_UX1000_.jpg

wvfarrier · Apr 15, 2023

Ryan Gill killed a buffalo with an Atlatl. I killed this buck using an osage self bow, obsidian point on a maple shaft. Obsidian gets beyond surgical sharp when knapped properly, unfortunately it is not particularly durable. There is a reason why american indians im
mediately adopted metal points.

Femur bones make excellent hunting points. Heat them in a fire to harden and they will take an awesome edge and are durable. I also serrate them.

sirhrmechanic · Apr 16, 2023

cas6969 said:
I like to duck hunt with a primitive setup. Looks sort of like this.

View attachment 8121008 View attachment 8121011

Very effective, but it tends to upset the other people at the mill pond, especially the children.

Have you met @Bender yet?

You guys would be like peas and carrots!

Sirhr

Maser · Apr 16, 2023

Seed tick · Apr 16, 2023

Wvf-you make the maple arrow shaft?

W54/XM-388 · Apr 16, 2023

Bring your bows up to date make them a repeater:

Longshot231 · Apr 22, 2023

XLR308 said:
Still working on a stone tomahawk blade is motoroil obsidian and handle is American ash, still has a ways to go.
Preforms above the hawk are the same type of obsidian.
Knife is obsidian set in elk horn, i didnt make that one and maybe someday will be able to knap stone that well.
Bottom is Arkansas novaculite spear point preform far from complete and an arrow point i am working on from same stone. The spear point was over 12" inches but i fucked it up
Next project after i finish the hawk and get a little better at pressure flaking will be n Atlatl, allways been fascinated with them.
Man that picture turned out like shit, may need to try again in natural light.
View attachment 8120736

These two aren't as nice as yours but I like them anyway. They are made by Beaver Bill. The head on the left tomahawk is made from an old .22-250 rifle barrel.

I couldn't pass up a deal from Midway on this CS Rondell.

Maggot · Apr 22, 2023

Longshot231 said:
I made this sling a while back. I surprised myself at how far I could hurl a stone!

View attachment 8120813

I wish I could find the video but I watched a show several years ago where they tested the power of the sling. A real slinger from the Balearic Islands slung a stone at a steel plate on a nine foot pole. Behind the plate was measuring equipment that was used to calculate the amount of energy that could have been expended on the target by the stone cast from David's sling. I forget the numbers but it was definitely plausible that he could have inflicted an incapacitating injury on the giant, enabling a decapitation with the Philistine's sword.

I know I'm impressed with how far I can sling a stone with my sling. Not saying that I'm accurate but I wonder if it will work with something like a grenade

Fuck yeah. When I was a kid I could throw a rock close to 100 yds and accurately and hard enough to kill you easily. Could peg you at home plate from deep center field. We made slings like that and you could at least double the distance but I never got really accurate.

Longshot231 · Apr 22, 2023

The lowly machete has been used around the world as a weapon when no other is at hand. It might be one of the most ubiquitous poor man weapons for the ages.

Here's a fight from Columbia. It's too bad the surveillance video didn't have sound. We might have heard the suspect shouting, "¡No puedo respirar!"

XLR308 · Apr 22, 2023

Longshot231 said:
These two aren't as nice as yours but I like them anyway. They are made by Beaver Bill. The head on the left tomahawk is made from an old .22-250 rifle barrel.
View attachment 8125603
I couldn't pass up a deal from Midway on this CS Rondell.
View attachment 8125604

Looks pretty damn good to me.
Maybe someday i will finish some of my projects.
The stone hawk i still need to finish i will need to reprofile the handle.
Originally i thought i would like the handle the way it is but its totally round and doesnt index in the hand the way any knife or edged weapon or tool should.
Thankfully there is still a substantial amount of meat left on the piece of ash i cut it from.

Maggot · Apr 22, 2023

Longshot231 said:
The lowly machete has been used around the world as a weapon when no other is at hand. It might be one of the most ubiquitous poor man weapons for the ages.

Here's a fight from Columbia. It's too bad the surveillance video didn't have sound. We might have heard the suspect shouting, "¡No puedo respirar!"

Video 2? After having my gun pointed at him I'd have told him to put down the machete then repeated it. If he made any move toward me I'd have capped him. Sorry, but I'm going home tonight.

Many people dont think of everyday objects as weapons. Personally, I like the good old pitchfork. Wicked weapon, kind of like mobile punji sticks. Pin a pitbul to the ground.

Even a screwdriver or ballpoint pen.

Greg Langelius * · Apr 22, 2023

I like the primitive arms, quiet with no Form 1's.

XLR308 · Apr 22, 2023

Greg Langelius * said:
I like the primitive arms, quiet with no Form 1's.

Just about any object in most rooms could be used as a weapon.

Maser · Apr 22, 2023

W54/XM-388 said:
Bring your bows up to date make them a repeater:

Love the slingshot guy's laugh!

Pharmseller · Apr 22, 2023

I’ll bet a good halberd would be tough to defend against.

P

Maser · Apr 22, 2023

The D · Apr 22, 2023

TxWelder35 · Apr 22, 2023

The old mixed with the new

XLR308 · Apr 22, 2023

TxWelder35 said:
The old mixed with the new

View attachment 8125856

Onieda screaming eagle, havent seen one of those in years.

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