Secret Service “JAR” rifle

RemCustom6 · Dec 27, 2023

Hello Hide Members!

I am in the process of trying to build a clone of the “JAR” rifle that the Secret Service used. I am specifically wanting to build the McMillan stocked version. From my research I come to find that they used 7mm Rem Mags and later switched to a 300 Win Mag some time later. Does anyone know how these Rifles were built out? Remington 700’s or M24’s? Barrel maker, profile, length, twist? Suppressed or not? If so, what suppressors did they run? Trigger? Optic and mounts? I have also read that the bottom metal was an aluminum BDL unit. Can anyone confirm this?

I already have the McMillan stock for the build. I have an M24 action available and an M24 trigger. I also have several old Walker triggers I can pull from.

Any help is much appreciated and if anyone can post any pictures that would be awesome!

Thanks everyone!

camocorvette · Dec 28, 2023

Never heard of this but I'm intrigued and will follow along. I hope you get your answer and rifle!

longebow · Dec 28, 2023

Ray Sweet built rifles for the SS back in the day. Don't have his contact info anymore, but maybe someone here from the Quantico area might be helpful.

fdkay · Dec 28, 2023

depends on which era of the JAR, like anything else.
I have read, but can't confirm that back in the day 20-30 years ago they were McMillan stocked remington long actions, likely with Leupold glass.
In this video, you can see that they are remingtons in Accuracy International Chassis with S&B scopes.

RemCustom6 · Dec 28, 2023

I have seen this video and like most sniper platforms, things change over time as we all know.

The version I am after is the McMillan A5 stocked rifle. I have included a few pics. The stocks were black gel-coat finished with an adjustable LOP and cheek.

I doubt that the M24 is the correct action but it’s what I currently have available. I believe that the aluminum BDL bottom metal is correct but clarification would be appreciated.

This is probably the toughest rifle I have tried to clone so far. The M40’s, M24’s, and MK13’s have such a following other than actually finding legit parts for those, they have been pretty easy to figure out. The JAR is a mystery of sorts.

I appreciate any and all information!!

fdkay · Dec 28, 2023

Maybe @MikeRTacOps can shed some light?

RTH1800 · Dec 28, 2023

@Huskydriver

kft101 · Dec 28, 2023

This is the highest quality photo of a McMillan A5 stock equipped USSS JAR I could find in the public realm. You can extract some details based on the photo. Hopefully those with first hand knowledge and experience can help out with the official details.

RTH1800 · Dec 28, 2023

Not being sarcastic but I am wondering how you could want a rifle that you don’t know the specs on?

RemCustom6 · Dec 28, 2023

Because I know that the SS used this particular platform. And I like all things SNIPERY. I happen to have found a legit McMillan and want to own an cloneable piece of history. I know enough to probably get my clone going and be 85% legit. It’s the small specifics that I lack. Barrel maker, length, correct action…..etc. most anyone wanting to clone a military sniper rifle wants it to be as close as possible to the real thing. That is why the clone market is so strong. The knowledge base here on the HIDE is by far the best resource I have found. Therefore I am leaning on this platform to dig up information. I would bet that someone on here has firsthand knowledge of this rifle system and perhaps even used one in the line of service. It took me 4 years to get parts for my M40a1. Patience I have……

I don’t know anything about USMC trench guns of the WW and Vietnam era but I know I would own every variant of them real or clone…..

Wyfox · Dec 28, 2023

@Skunk any insight?

Skunk · Dec 28, 2023

I work with a guy who is former USSS, but I don’t think he was involved in the tactical side of things.

I have no personal knowledge of anything related to the Service….

kthomas · Dec 28, 2023

I don't know anything about what rifles they use and their specs, but here is a pretty ubiquitous photo that came up from a quick google search:

source:

RemCustom6 · Dec 28, 2023

Not quite the version I am looking for but I appreciate the post.

kthomas · Dec 28, 2023

RemCustom6 said:
Not quite the version I am looking for but I appreciate the post.

The chassis may be different but it gives some clues as to how the rifles are spec'ed.

Anyways, good luck. Excited to see what this thread turns up, I love learning about how different agencies spec their rifles.

Mike Casselton · Dec 28, 2023

Referencing the images in post 8.
Is the bolt handle a PTG or some other aftermarket unit?

RemCustom6 · Dec 28, 2023

I believe that to be a standard 700 knob. The angle of the picture makes it look a little funky I think.

nn8734 · Dec 28, 2023

There used to be a Youtube video posted by either CNN or another news agency featuring a spot done on the Secret Service Counter-sniper unit that featured the JAR rifles like the one in shown in @kft101 's post above. I can't find it (I've seen the more recent one showing the Mk13 Mod 7-ish rifle they're using now) but the other one seems not to be on the platform any more...Between the two of them, I prefer the McMillan stock-equipped version (either A3 or A5) though absolutely nothing wrong w/the AICS chassis; among the best there is IMO.

I wonder if the more recent rifle is using a Lilja Mod 7 contour barrel - kinda looks like it. If so, perhaps the previous versions also used Lilja barrels... @RemCustom6 - maybe worth a call to Lilja or ask @Frank Green if they use Bartleins or Kreigers.

Also, 'JAR' stands for 'Just Another Rifle', I believe (in case anyone was wondering).

sinister · Dec 28, 2023

The United States Secret Service Uniformed Division Counter Sniper Remington 700 "JARs" were made in-house at the James J. Rowley Training Center in Beltsville, Maryland in 7mm Remington Magnum and later (currently) in 300 Winchester Magnum.

USSS Lieutenant Carl Kovalchik was a perennial Camp Perry long-range champion.

The older (through 1999) 7mm JAR used a McMillan Prone stock with steel bottom metal and was throated long for a slightly higher powder charge. At least one 10,000-round Federal lot was hand-loaded by Gary B. and packed in plain white boxes with blue end-labels. Scope was a Leupold M1-16X until the Nightforce NXS and Schmidt-Bender PM IIs.

==========================================================

COMMERCE BUSINESS DAILY ISSUE OF APRIL 22,1997 PSA#1829
Department of the Treasury, U. S. Secret Service, Procurement Division, 1310 L Street, N. W., Suite 730, Washington, DC 20223

13 – AMMUNITION & EXPLOSIVES. 7MM REMINGTON MAGNUM CALIBER AMMUNITION. SOL usss970008 DUE 050697 POC Contract Specialist, Nellie Potocki-Reeves, Contracting Officer, Susan D. Long, 202/435-6940 The U.S. Secret Service has a requirement to acquire approximately fifty (50) cases, @ one-thousand (1000) rounds per case of 7mm Remington Magnum caliber cartridges. The cartridges will be used in Remington Model 700 rifles specifically designed for the U.S. Secret Service. The 7mm Remington Magnum ammunition shall meet the accuracy standards commonly associated with long range competitive marksmanship shooting. Absolute testing standards for the ammunition shall be met. Offerors are required to submit two-hundred and sixty (260) sample rounds for testing. Any Offeror not submitting the required samples will not be considered. Samples will be delivered to the U.S. Secret Service’s, James J. Rowley Training Center, Laurel, Maryland. The U.S. Secret Service anticipates awarding a fixed price requirements contract to include a base period of one year, with four one year options, if exercised by the Government. Contract performance is subject to the availability of funds. Only written requests for this solicitation package will be accepted. The Government will not be responsible for any cost in the preparation of responses to this announcement. Please see numbered notes 1, and 26, which fully applies to this procurement. (0107)
=========================================================

Recently (700 in 300WM in an AI stock):

Frank Green · Dec 29, 2023

nn8734 said:
There used to be a Youtube video posted by either CNN or another news agency featuring a spot done on the Secret Service Counter-sniper unit that featured the JAR rifles like the one in shown in @kft101 's post above. I can't find it (I've seen the more recent one showing the Mk13 Mod 7-ish rifle they're using now) but the other one seems not to be on the platform any more...Between the two of them, I prefer the McMillan stock-equipped version (either A3 or A5) though absolutely nothing wrong w/the AICS chassis; among the best there is IMO.

I wonder if the more recent rifle is using a Lilja Mod 7 contour barrel - kinda looks like it. If so, perhaps the previous versions also used Lilja barrels... @RemCustom6 - maybe worth a call to Lilja or ask @Frank Green if they use Bartleins or Kreigers.

Also, 'JAR' stands for 'Just Another Rifle', I believe (in case anyone was wondering).

I’ve heard and want to say I seen some pic’s of this rifle some where not to long ago but offhand I have no clue what they used for components for the rifle build etc… same with the ammo. I want to say I seen a pic of that boxed ammo but for the life of me cannot remember where.

I can put a call into Whidden as he is in that pic and see if he knows anything about the rifles.

Same with Federal… if they loaded the ammo maybe they know something if anyone there was around at the time. I’ll ask my counterpart up there if he can shed any light on it but I think it will be a long shot.

It’s amazing on what I’ve seen overtime. I’ve been to ammo places that have a spec built gun supposedly and either the guns shoot like garbage and or they don’t even know what components are on the gun or even the chamber spec that was used. I was at a ammo manufacturer one time and they showed me 300wm sniper rifles all 6 of them built to the same spec. (I’m not going to say who built them or the barrels used on the guns) but the one guy that showed them to me….said what a piece of junk. Shoots like garbage and literally just thru it back into the locker. He said a waste of time using them for any type of accuracy testing.

I’ve got a 3rd guy in mind I can put a call into as well.

I’ll see what I can come up with but most of this I can’t do till next week sometime with the exception of one person who I know I can get a hold of pretty quick.

j-huskey · Dec 29, 2023

Have Bud who shot w Carl & John Whidden, who talks to John at least once a week. I've bumped him on asking Carl.
We were discussing something similar just last week... because.....
I can't verify Ray Sweet was involved in building the SS rifles like he was in building the FBI rifles, but....
I know Ray Steele designed the 7mm and 300 mag reamers the SS used in their rifles "that used the ammo Sinister writes of above..."
I bought one of Ray's original 300 mag reamers from him at Camp Perry 10-15 years back and still have it...
And glad I do...
The reamer got accidentally swapped and sent to a guy up north.... I found the reamer he was "supposed to get", and my Steele reamer has returned home. . Yay....
If Carl doesn't provide my bud with rifle info, I'll try to contact Carolina bud who introduced me to Ray Steele. One of the older Camp Perry crew from that era...
Will not be the speediest gathering of info...
Putting out the feelers....

j-huskey · Dec 29, 2023

What I do know, is:
Back in the day, when Ray Sweet built the FBI rifles, the chrome moly barrel was a Douglas, and the stainless was a Hart.
Remington used Hart's on custom shop 40x rifles.
I've see a ♡ stamp on early m40A1's.
Then Schneider on the m40xx's....

The US Customs shooter Bert Medina (who competed against Carl K.) shot a Kreiger, and two Customs gunsmiths out of building 4 on Benning who I was close to used Hart, Kreiger, and Obermeyer in their builds.
One of them introduced me to Ray Steele.
Feelers creep out to them...

Mike Casselton · Dec 29, 2023

RemCustom6 said:
I believe that to be a standard 700 knob. The angle of the picture makes it look a little funky I think.

Yeah, I see it now. Looking at it with a phone, so image size is small.
Looks to have the finish worn from it, but you can still see the stamped checkering in the top of the knob.

j-huskey · Dec 29, 2023

Memory is tuff... Gunny Hathcock won Wimbledon in 1965 with a 300, and I don't remember if it was a H&H or Win Mag.
SFC Bill Davis won Wimbledon in 1966 with a 300 Win Mag using a Sierra 190 mk and 66 grains of IMR 4350...
Davis was an AMU gunsmith in his later career, building long range rifles for Perry and .....
Along with Gerald "Old Hook" Boutin. I knew them both, old Hook was like my second Dad...
At some point in my life, I had in my hands a Davis built 40X in 7 rem mag... it had a Douglas chrome moly barrel, and he built it in the AMU shop.
Hook and Davis both talked about the 7, SS built rifles, and Middleton Thompkins shooting one at Perry. All this during the SS rifle 7mm period when Kovalchik was an up & comer...
(Best I remember Kovalchik ended up shooting a 300 with 220 Sierra MK's and winning... When the rest of us and AMU was shooting 210 Berger VLD's and some with JLK 210'S.. )
Back then, the 7's were notorious at Perry for shooting well one day, and suck the next.
AMU tried them and rejected them for the 300's. Old Hook would not build a 7 mag after he retired.
Just more trivia here from the time frame.

RemCustom6 · Dec 29, 2023

I appreciate any help on this!! I have a 7mm Hart barrel, 1-9 twist SS, AMU contour I’ll most likely use for this project unless some hardcore evidence steers me in another direction on a barrel maker. I’m pretty set on needing a donor Remington 700 long action now so I’ll shelve the M24 and use it later on something else.

I appreciate everyone’s help!!!!

nn8734 · Dec 29, 2023

Frank Green said:
I’ve heard and want to say I seen some pic’s of this rifle some where not to long ago but offhand I have no clue what they used for components for the rifle build etc… same with the ammo. I want to say I seen a pic of that boxed ammo but for the life of me cannot remember where.

I can put a call into Whidden as he is in that pic and see if he knows anything about the rifles.

Same with Federal… if they loaded the ammo maybe they know something if anyone there was around at the time. I’ll ask my counterpart up there if he can shed any light on it but I think it will be a long shot.

It’s amazing on what I’ve seen overtime. I’ve been to ammo places that have a spec built gun supposedly and either the guns shoot like garbage and or they don’t even know what components are on the gun or even the chamber spec that was used. I was at a ammo manufacturer one time and they showed me 300wm sniper rifles all 6 of them built to the same spec. (I’m not going to say who built them or the barrels used on the guns) but the one guy that showed them to me….said what a piece of junk. Shoots like garbage and literally just thru it back into the locker. He said a waste of time using them for any type of accuracy testing.

I’ve got a 3rd guy in mind I can put a call into as well.

I’ll see what I can come up with but most of this I can’t do till next week sometime with the exception of one person who I know I can get a hold of pretty quick.

Thanks for all the info, extra effort Frank and @j-huskey. These are interesting rifles so would be curious to learn the specs on them.

kft101 · Dec 29, 2023

sinister said:
The United States Secret Service Uniformed Division Counter Sniper Remington 700 "JARs" were made in-house at the James J. Rowley Training Center in Beltsville, Maryland in 7mm Remington Magnum and later (currently) in 300 Winchester Magnum.

...

The older (through 1999) 7mm JAR used a McMillan Prone stock with steel bottom metal and was throated long for a slightly higher powder charge. At least one 10,000-round Federal lot was hand-loaded by Gary B. and packed in plain white boxes with blue end-labels. Scope was a Leupold M1-16X until the Nightforce NXS and Schmidt-Bender PM IIs.

...

Great information, thanks! Interesting about the JARs with McMillan stocks using steel bottom metal. I have one of these JAR spec A5 stocks too, and it has a standard LA BDL inlet.

Also good to know about the scope used on the McMillan equipped JARs. The flickr photo from my earlier post definitely shows a fixed Leupold Mk4 scope with M1 turrets, but unsure if it was a 10X or 16X. The rings + simrad cap set used are interesting too. They look like Badger 30mm MAX-50 rings, and sport a matching 6-screw simrad cap.

fdkay · Dec 29, 2023

RemCustom6 said:
I appreciate any help on this!! I have a 7mm Hart barrel, 1-9 twist SS, AMU contour I’ll most likely use for this project unless some hardcore evidence steers me in another direction on a barrel maker. I’m pretty set on needing a donor Remington 700 long action now so I’ll shelve the M24 and use it later on something else.

I appreciate everyone’s help!!!!

Here's stripped actions, apparently does include the bolt:

Remington 700 Actions -

Remington 700 Actions. Available in a variety of configurations. Short - Long, Magnum & Standard. Chromoly steel. Quality made in the USA!

jaoutdoors.com

j-huskey · Dec 29, 2023

longebow said:
Ray Sweet built rifles for the SS back in the day. Don't have his contact info anymore, but maybe someone here from the Quantico area might be helpful.

My bud verified Bob Lutz and Ray Steele as the 2nd & 3rd guy hired to build SS rifles, didn't remember the Head Guys name but, that head guy was appointed to the position by LBJ (said he was an idiot that didnt know jackshit about guns proper, but 7mm mag was his favorite cartridge). That they worked out of the Rowley Training Center in Beltsville as @sinister said, and bud seconds all information @sinister posted here on the ammo.
Bud verified the reamers were made by Dave Manson for Ray/SS from Clymer.

Bud was in line to be the Sniper Instructor for SS but got a better offer from Customs.
Bud and Ray Sweet had dealings as Ray was a go to guy on rifles. Bud had no first hand knowledge Ray Sweet built SS rifles, but, him knowing Sweet, and him knowing Steele, and that they all knew each other, didn't doubt that Steele would have Sweet help him with sniper rifles.

The first rifles he saw were wood stock (he thought 40x), Remington 700 bdl long actions with a heavy barrel in 7 mag.
Ray Steele had retired when SS went to the McMillan stock so bud had no first hand knowledge of when that was.

This doesn't answer the OPs original question, but adds to .....
Steele and Lutz are long dead, Carl Kovalchik is looking like our best living source right now (Kovalchik was at Perry when i bought the reamer from Steele).
Still waiting to hear from the 2nd Customs gunsmith and bud that shot w Kovalchik and Whidden.

Edit, Barrel was a Hart stainless in #7 Douglas contour, which was "before there was an AMU contour"... same barrel Ray Sweet put on the FBI HRT builds (except .30 cal, not 7mm as SS.)
Ray Steele was hired away from Denver Arsenal. Bob Lutz was hired away from Frankfort Arsenal. My bud was at Picitinny Arsenal, the arsenals in the 50's into the 60's were .gov military creators of new things or problem solvers and today's "arsenals" are like Crane...

chevy_man · Dec 30, 2023

RTH1800 said:
Not being sarcastic but I am wondering how you could want a rifle that you don’t know the specs on?

I came in here expecting some crazy build up.

Turns out, every dude that was building "crazy accurate sniper rifles" was just putting a Remington 700 into a McMillan stock with a custom barrel from whichever good smith had time to do it.

Clone builds must not be for me, as I can't fathom the expense to use old out dated scopes or barrels that you can't get anymore.

Just seems like copying a copy of someone else's copy would get old after awhile.

sinister · Dec 30, 2023

Even within a single agency (the US Secret Service in this case) the rifles varied as missions adjusted to new threats, gunsmiths changed out due to transfers and retirements, and stocks and scopes evolved and improved.

The Nightforce NXS and Schmidt-Bender PM II are both miles ahead of the Leupold M1-16X.

RemCustom6 · Dec 30, 2023

chevy_man said:
I came in here expecting some crazy build up.

Turns out, every dude that was building "crazy accurate sniper rifles" was just putting a Remington 700 into a McMillan stock with a custom barrel from whichever good smith had time to do it.

Clone builds must not be for me, as I can't fathom the expense to use old out dated scopes or barrels that you can't get anymore.

Just seems like copying a copy of someone else's copy would get old after awhile.

We all have our niche/vices. I have several when it comes to precision guns. I am a custom gun builder by trade. Have worked for several awesome companies and had the great pleasure of learning and working with some of the most talented people in the industry. I am also the son of a retired Marine. I was fortunate enough to grow up on and around Quantico until I was 23-24. As a Marine Corps family we never had to move. I went through K-12 in the Stafford Co. school system, which is crazy for a Marine Corps family. I watched the snipers on base March through the woods carrying their M40’s and I guess I just fell in love with the precision/sniper rifles in general. I worked in the FBI academy while in high school. Got to meet Carlos Hathcock in the FBI cafeteria in 1996.

Working for Remington in the Custom Shop and running the center fire line afforded me some great experiences being able to work on contract submission rifles for several US entities through the Defense Department of Remington.

And I must say, building an extremely accurate rifle is not as easy as you make it sound. You cannot F’up anything, from the blueprint/truing work, barrel machine work, to the bedding. Extreme care is taken throughout the build process. Everything matters, right down to the fit and finish of the completed project.

I guess us “Cloners” do not expect everyone to understand our desire to own a piece of history, all be it a clone. Perhaps it’s the hunt for original parts that are like finding the needle in the haystack. Perhaps it’s because “not in my case” the particular person used one of these platforms and it’s now engraved in their DNA. Either way it’s what makes us…….us. You might like cars, bikes, or maybe airplanes. We like military weapons that are highly sought after….even in the clone state.

Sorry that this got really long winded but I hope this helps you to understand the “clone” thing and why we do it.

sinister · Dec 30, 2023

The Secret Service insisted on "Just Another Rifle" to emphasize the human is the most important and critical part of the entire sniping system.

They knew, yes, anyone can clone their hardware.

The difference between the Secret Service's presidential protection and counter-sniper missions and all other agencies is: you protect "The Man" -- not necessarily his image or reputation but one of the three legs of our constitutional government. More important than nuclear weapons.

You may not have voted for him, and you certainly don't have to like or agree with him -- but if you're on the Presidential Protection Detail you're on the first team.

They cannot have a bad day or the entire nation gets thrown into turmoil for a bit.

Our nation has lost four of 46 to assassins.

CamW · Dec 30, 2023

Here's an older black and white photo from a Wikipedia article on the Secret Service. If you click on the photo in the link it enlarges.
To my eyes,the stock looks more like a McMillan A2 or A3 with the flat sided fore end rather than a A5 with the rounded fore end.

United States Secret Service Uniformed Division - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Here's the whole article.

United States Secret Service Uniformed Division - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

sinister · Dec 30, 2023

Skunk · Dec 31, 2023

Harris bipods……?? I can’t take these guys seriously!

DstRflMn645 · Dec 31, 2023

A side note on Sinister's picture of the Civilian team, Looking at the picture Jon Howell is on the left and Tom Guercio is on the right. I see Jon at matches regularly and shoot/practice with Tom weekly. One other note is that the gentleman behind Jon is not Bill Walter as he had left early, Bill O'Rourke was standing in for Mr. Walter.

John

Whiskey 2-1 · Jan 1, 2024

DstRflMn645 said:
A side note on Sinister's picture of the Civilian team, Looking at the picture Jon Howell is on the left and Tom Guercio is on the right. I see Jon at matches regularly and shoot/practice with Tom weekly. One other note is that the gentleman behind Jon is not Bill Walter as he had left early, Bill O'Rourke was standing in for Mr. Walter.

John

I‘m glad you said that. I was sitting here thinking I was going crazy not seeing Bill Walter in that pic. I used to shoot with him at the MS state matches when he brought the FL Air Force folks out. Hell of a guy and a hard holder. He helped me get started in SR and I credit my Master card to him. I still have the target he helped me pull down when I beat him in offhand the first (and only) time.

As for the USSS rifles….I did encounter one up close several times in ‘05 after Katrina when Bush came down to NOLA. The USSS guys used the lot behind our ambulance parking for Marine 2s LZ on a number of occasion. I helped their counter snipers set up positions on top of one of our units and chatted about their gear. I recall at that time they were black McMillan A2 or 3 stocked, blind bottom metal, and with a Leupold optic.
I recall mostly because I told the guy my kit shouldn’t be better than theirs, and told him about the then-new Badger long action AICS bottom metal and contacts to get S&Bs. He hated the Leupy. Nice guy, still have his card somewhere.……

Doc

redneckbmxer24 · Jan 1, 2024

They were Schneider barrels, no idea on twist or other specs but I think they were MTU. I’d bet you could call Schneider and say you want to order one to spec and they’d make it.

Pretty sure tacops built some of them too.

260shooter · Jan 1, 2024

The history channel did a show on LEO/military snipers in the early to mid 90's and had a segment on the SS snipers. A guy they interviewed mentioned the JAR. As I remember it was a 700 action bare stainless barrel and a black A-3 stock.

sinister · Jan 1, 2024

redneckbmxer24 said:
They were Schneider barrels ...

I thought Gary had passed a long time ago. If I recall correctly he was out of Phoenix, but the website now says Canadian, Texas. Maybe Dave Tubb bought the brand?

j-huskey · Jan 1, 2024

sinister said:
I thought Gary had passed a long time ago. If I recall correctly he was out of Phoenix, but the website now says Canadian, Texas. Maybe Dave Tubb bought the brand?

Gary is dead, and it's sold, don't remember who bought it. The transition was rough. Don't know what the service is now.
My guy said the first barrels were hart. Waiting on a current SS gunsmith to respond.

DstRflMn645 · Jan 1, 2024

David Tubb’s family now runs the business

BPGuru · Jan 1, 2024

j-huskey said:
Memory is tuff... Gunny Hathcock won Wimbledon in 1965 with a 300, and I don't remember if it was a H&H or Win Mag.
SFC Bill Davis won Wimbledon in 1966 with a 300 Win Mag using a Sierra 190 mk and 66 grains of IMR 4350...
Davis was an AMU gunsmith in his later career, building long range rifles for Perry and .....
Along with Gerald "Old Hook" Boutin. I knew them both, old Hook was like my second Dad...
At some point in my life, I had in my hands a Davis built 40X in 7 rem mag... it had a Douglas chrome moly barrel, and he built it in the AMU shop.
Hook and Davis both talked about the 7, SS built rifles, and Middleton Thompkins shooting one at Perry. All this during the SS rifle 7mm period when Kovalchik was an up & comer...
(Best I remember Kovalchik ended up shooting a 300 with 220 Sierra MK's and winning... When the rest of us and AMU was shooting 210 Berger VLD's and some with JLK 210'S.. )
Back then, the 7's were notorious at Perry for shooting well one day, and suck the next.
AMU tried them and rejected them for the 300's. Old Hook would not build a 7 mag after he retired.
Just more trivia here from the time frame.

I spent a lot of time with Hook too. Great smith and always great stories.

USMCsean · Jan 1, 2024

j-huskey said:
Gary is dead, and it's sold, don't remember who bought it. The transition was rough. Don't know what the service is now.
My guy said the first barrels were hart. Waiting on a current SS gunsmith to respond.

David Tubb’s daughter and son in law, who is a former navy seal, are the new owners.

j-huskey · Jan 1, 2024

Tubb dawta good ppl.

nn8734 · Jan 1, 2024

sinister said:
I thought Gary had passed a long time ago. If I recall correctly he was out of Phoenix, but the website now says Canadian, Texas. Maybe Dave Tubb bought the brand?

I spoke to him a about a year and a half ago and he told me he was retiring"soon" so bought four M40 barrels that day (sent him a check); shame to hear he has passed, thought he just sold the business. His shop was in Payson, AZ.

Frank Green · Jan 2, 2024

nn8734 said:
Thanks for all the info, extra effort Frank and @j-huskey. These are interesting rifles so would be curious to learn the specs on them.

To maybe fill in a few blanks for what J-huskey has said and what I found out….

Yes it was in the early to mid 70s that the USMC tested/had some guns built in 7RemMag. I remembered that correctly. BC of bullets etc… all showed the greatest promise but the biggest thing that seemed to kill it at that time was the 7mag ammo was not a standard item in the gov’t supply etc…So the Marines stuck with the 308win. as it being the best all around round. Good at short range good at med to long range, easy on barrels, accuracy etc…

The barrels on the JAR’s rifles so far from what I found out where Schneiders at least at the ending time frame of the 7mag being used by SS. Not naming names as I didn’t ask permission but the testing that was done at USMC the data was given to SS. The 7mag was adopted if he recalled correctly in the 80s sometime or real early 90s. Federal Cart was one place that made ammo and there was another place making the ammo back in that early time frame. The quality of the ammo from the one place either was hit or miss or detoriated over time. I just talked to one of the guys who did shoot the ammo in test guns back in the late 70’s/80’s time frame. It was mid to late 90’s that the caliber was switched to or started getting switched over to 300wm. He thought it was around 1994 or 1995. The 300wm where Scheiders. The guy that implemented that program to switch from the 7 to the 300wm and from what I understand built the rifle for Carl setting that record at Perry. He also built the 300wm rifle around the same time frame for the shooter that gave me the info and it’s ironic that he gave me his comp rifle last year and we took his old barrel off and put a new barrel on it. Same builder did the work. His old barrel was a Schneider as well. It was his prone long range gun with a McMillan Anschutz stock still on it. We duplicated the barrel contour and finish length and installed a new barrel again in 300wm. I’m hoping for a phone call tomorrow as the guy that implemented the change over to 300wm is still doing work for the gov’t and we’ve made him barrels as well as ammunition test barrels. He will know barrel contour etc that was used on the JR and I’ll ask him if he can fill in more of the blanks on the JAR rifles. One of the reasons for the change to 300wm was easier on barrel life vs the 7mag.

Hopefully I’ll get more info tomorrow.

Later, Frank

Frank Green · Jan 2, 2024

A couple of the rifles that where tested and where later transferred up to SS in 7mag was by the guy running scout snipers and training at the time. The time frame of the transfer of the couple of rifles was 1976 or 1977. From what I understand the original test guns used for testing where modified original M40’s. Two are known for sure. Not sure if there where anymore done.

Modoc · Jan 2, 2024

This has been an awesome thread! I know the comment earlier about smiths modifying a factory rifle to meet needs, but having started down the custom rifle path with the Mauser ‘98 action I bow down to the skill and artistry of the afore mentioned smiths.

Everything evolves or it gets left behind. Seeing the progression of the JAR in this threat has been an education.

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