New ELEY Ultra Extreme Long Range Round incoming

Sblzrd65 · Mar 1, 2024

https://eley.co.uk/ultra_extreme_long_range_round/?fbclid=IwAR2v3vuKFaD0_m3bS0rdUEdVimWGXVOCCn9bFJe80kUG2EpMJointsEIsrM

It's that time more more long range for PRS hotness. Seems like it's supposed to be an alternative to Tenex. Different color also back to a round nose instead of the nipple top. Supposedly shipping out late spring/early summer.

To add, looks like Creedmoor Sports already has a placeholder listing up. $18.55 is a little more then black box Match and definitely less than Tenex.

Eley Ultra Extreme Long Range .22 LR Ammunition

Eley Ultra Extreme Long Range .22 LR Ammunition Unleash the power of precision with the all-new ELEY Ultra Extreme Long Range Round, a revolutionary breakthrough in the world of Long Range Rimfire Competition. With a heritage of manufacturing excellence spanning over 187 years, and a legacy...

www.creedmoorsports.com

RTH1800 · Mar 1, 2024

In looking at ad it says 40 grain bullet and picture shows a different shape to bullet. Longer. Could just be artist drawing?

BigDaddy0381 · Mar 1, 2024

maybe just copy and past of the round itself

justin amateur · Mar 1, 2024

Did the marketing department just make their quarterly bonus?
Change the label, increase the retail price, same cartridges from same assembly line?

Skeptic? Who? Me?

RTH1800 · Mar 1, 2024

BigDaddy0381 said:
maybe just copy and past of the round itself

View attachment 8361748

Might work if you posted the correct round.

BigDaddy0381 · Mar 1, 2024

Yeah, Not sure what you are talking about the correct round? looks like a past and copy of the same bullet for the picture just a little flip a roo... didn't say anything about the box or name but thanks for pointing that out..

These, Bullets and not the box look like the below.

look just like these.

jbell · Mar 1, 2024

BigDaddy0381 said:
maybe just copy and past of the round itself

View attachment 8361748

Different published velocities

BigDaddy0381 · Mar 1, 2024

AHH, Never mind..

grauhanen · Mar 1, 2024

Perhaps the bullet used in this "new" ammo is a bullet already in use with other Eley varieties. While RWS Plus Long Range (and the rebranded Norma equivalent) have a new bullet design, Lapua Long Range and SLR use the same bullet as CX, M+, and X-Act.

It outdoes RWS and Lapua in the naming department. This new Eley is "Ultra Extreme" which is clearly better RWS's more mundane "Plus Long Range" or Lapua's more everyday "Super Long Range" or RWS

The BC of the new Eley long range ammo is 0.112.

justin amateur · Mar 1, 2024

I was thinking, again, and it's possible I might just have come up with a profitable venture. Maybe.

Suppose I was to contract with one of the big three...Eley, Lapua, RWS, or maybe Fiocchi of Italy
to produce some upper grade 22lr with higher than normal quality control with larger test sample sizes,
maximum muzzle velocity spread of 30 fps high to low and 14 mm outside to outside aggregate group for 50 shots at 50 meters?
Then put a label on the boxes with something like: "Precision Extended Range Series 22lr".
Do ya' think I could get Lapua 223 match cartridge prices per box of 50? Hmmmmm?

Then when results at 100 yards plus were less than desirable, my customer service could blame range conditions.
And at less than 100 yards, it was due to distance being less than that needed for projectile stabilization.
Couldn't be cartridge quality to blame, right? It was ambient temperature induced turbulence....Yeah, that's the ticket!

RTH1800 · Mar 1, 2024

"It was swamp gas ignited by solar flairs combined with lunar gravitational pull...."

Sblzrd65 · Mar 1, 2024

justin amateur said:
I was thinking, again, and it's possible I might just have come up with a profitable venture. Maybe.

Suppose I was to contract with one of the big three...Eley, Lapua, RWS, or maybe Fiocchi of Italy
to produce some upper grade 22lr with higher than normal quality control with larger test sample sizes,
maximum muzzle velocity spread of 30 fps high to low and 14 mm outside to outside aggregate group for 50 shots at 50 meters?
Then put a label on the boxes with something like: "Precision Extended Range Series 22lr".
Do ya' think I could get Lapua 223 match cartridge prices per box of 50? Hmmmmm?

Then when results at 100 yards plus were less than desirable, my customer service could blame range conditions.
And at less than 100 yards, it was due to distance being less than that needed for projectile stabilization.
Couldn't be cartridge quality to blame, right? It was ambient temperature induced turbulence....Yeah, that's the ticket!

Eley has licensed out their priming in the past, IIRC Aguila has used them in the past for some lines.

ToddM · Mar 1, 2024

Bringing out a "new" .22 round and changing the box/name and increasing the price is starting to become a sport.

steve123 · Mar 3, 2024

They need a heavier and higher BC bullet, still subsonic, and with lower SD, otherwise = NOPE not notable enough to consider.

Ha, my airgun uses 60gr 25 cal slugs with a .245G1BC and low SD of 5 fps. However it doesn't shoot sub MOA at 100Y in precision. Darn close to MOA though and almost half the wind drift of 22rf which is very apparent 300 yards away when shot side by side.

I found it odd that Eley listed Field Target as a type of match their 22 ammo can be used in because I only know of one in the entire USA that allows 22rf and that is the one at Phoenix Rod and Gun club called UFT, Ultimate FT, which strays from FT because it's designed around more powerful airguns of up to 100 fpe in energy and distances out to 100Y.
Actually FT is normally a 12-20 fpe lower power level airgun match not to be confused with EFT or UFT.
I shot the UFT match last weekend and also won with the aforementioned projectile used in my AGT Vulcan 3 pcp air rifle. There were 22rf's there too but BC, BC, BC.

But you get the picture which is this new 22 ammo is nothing more than a marketing ploy kinda like fishing lures that are better at landing fisherman rather than fish.

DFOOSKING · Mar 4, 2024

Anybody know when we are gonna get rimfire rounds coated with Butter Flavored Wind Cheater?

bulletbluesky · Mar 5, 2024

MV=1100 ft/s + BC=0.112 sounds like a joke next to the label "ultra extreme long range"

marc.south1972 · Mar 5, 2024

Sblzrd65 said:
https://eley.co.uk/ultra_extreme_long_range_round/?fbclid=IwAR2v3vuKFaD0_m3bS0rdUEdVimWGXVOCCn9bFJe80kUG2EpMJointsEIsrM

It's that time more more long range for PRS hotness. Seems like it's supposed to be an alternative to Tenex. Different color also back to a round nose instead of the nipple top. Supposedly shipping out late spring/early summer.

To add, looks like Creedmoor Sports already has a placeholder listing up. $18.55 is a little more then black box Match and definitely less than Tenex.

Eley Ultra Extreme Long Range .22 LR Ammunition

Eley Ultra Extreme Long Range .22 LR Ammunition Unleash the power of precision with the all-new ELEY Ultra Extreme Long Range Round, a revolutionary breakthrough in the world of Long Range Rimfire Competition. With a heritage of manufacturing excellence spanning over 187 years, and a legacy...

www.creedmoorsports.com

i wonder why they went this black bullets the silver are much easier to spot.

6.5SH · Mar 5, 2024

bulletbluesky said:
MV=1100 ft/s + BC=0.112 sounds like a joke next to the label "ultra extreme long range"

That's RA4 not G1, conversion says .139 G1

bulletbluesky · Mar 5, 2024

6.5SH said:
That's RA4 not G1, conversion says .139 G1

Certainly not below 900 ft/s

Milo 2.5 · Mar 6, 2024

justin amateur said:
I was thinking, again, and it's possible I might just have come up with a profitable venture. Maybe.

Suppose I was to contract with one of the big three...Eley, Lapua, RWS, or maybe Fiocchi of Italy
to produce some upper grade 22lr with higher than normal quality control with larger test sample sizes,
maximum muzzle velocity spread of 30 fps high to low and 14 mm outside to outside aggregate group for 50 shots at 50 meters?
Then put a label on the boxes with something like: "Precision Extended Range Series 22lr".
Do ya' think I could get Lapua 223 match cartridge prices per box of 50? Hmmmmm?

Then when results at 100 yards plus were less than desirable, my customer service could blame range conditions.
And at less than 100 yards, it was due to distance being less than that needed for projectile stabilization.
Couldn't be cartridge quality to blame, right? It was ambient temperature induced turbulence....Yeah, that's the ticket!

You trashed Lapua's new offerings before they became available to the masses, and here we are again. Yet we read Lapua's new rds are working well for some. If ammo companies want to up the velocities of match grade ammo, let them try, it will work for some, not for others. Is it revolutionary what they are trying, most likely not.
Marketing rules the shooting world, most of the companies that members here buy from are post PRS entries. I'm no pioneer here, but I'm not going to be frozen in time.
Fuck it, I'm going to try some of this.

justin amateur · Mar 6, 2024

Trashed? Moi?

I might have indulged in a bit of skepticism,
based on past experience with new rimfire offerings.

If any of the rimfire cartridge makers could make 'em better than they already do,
they'd be doing so under the brand names already established for benchrest competition.
No need to create a new label unless y'er looking to expand y'er market to another discipline, right?

I wonder....is "long range precision rimfire" an oxymoron?

jbell · Mar 6, 2024

justin amateur said:
I wonder....is "long range precision rimfire" an oxymoron?

that is kinda funny…

DFOOSKING · Mar 7, 2024

Minute of Car Hood at a 1000yds doesn't sell well....

GIXXER2000 · Mar 7, 2024

My hope with it being a round nose it shoots as good as the old round nose Black box Match Rifle did. Neither my CZ 457MTR or Vudoo shoots the new flat nose worth a shit.

RTH1800 · Mar 7, 2024

My Win 52 shoots the flat nosed EPS bullet very well to 250 yards. I really like the way it impacts harder on game. Subsonic ammo needs all the help it can get.

chevy_man · Mar 8, 2024

steve123 said:
They need a heavier and higher BC bullet, still subsonic, and with lower SD, otherwise = NOPE not notable enough to consider.

Ha, my airgun uses 60gr 25 cal slugs with a .245G1BC and low SD of 5 fps. However it doesn't shoot sub MOA at 100Y in precision. Darn close to MOA though and almost half the wind drift of 22rf which is very apparent 300 yards away when shot side by side.

I found it odd that Eley listed Field Target as a type of match their 22 ammo can be used in because I only know of one in the entire USA that allows 22rf and that is the one at Phoenix Rod and Gun club called UFT, Ultimate FT, which strays from FT because it's designed around more powerful airguns of up to 100 fpe in energy and distances out to 100Y.
Actually FT is normally a 12-20 fpe lower power level airgun match not to be confused with EFT or UFT.
I shot the UFT match last weekend and also won with the aforementioned projectile used in my AGT Vulcan 3 pcp air rifle. There were 22rf's there too but BC, BC, BC.

But you get the picture which is this new 22 ammo is nothing more than a marketing ploy kinda like fishing lures that are better at landing fisherman rather than fish.

You're off in left field.

I've never heard of a field target match. It's an airgun thing I take it?

Would you believe they put words on the box that don't mean anything because they're marketing? I've never put ammo back down because it was for the wrong type of targets

Airguns suck for what I do. 22s are just so much more convenient. It sounds like you're happy with the airgun, so why are you in here shitting on new ammo?

chevy_man · Mar 8, 2024

GIXXER2000 said:
My hope with it being a round nose it shoots as good as the old round nose Black box Match Rifle did. Neither my CZ 457MTR or Vudoo shoots the new flat nose worth a shit.

Try sk/Lapua. Vudoo specifically recommends Lapua, so I'm not sure why you'd be upset Eley doesn't shoot the best?

DFOOSKING · Mar 8, 2024

chevy_man said:
You're off in left field.

I've never heard of a field target match. It's an airgun thing I take it?

Would you believe they put words on the box that don't mean anything because they're marketing? I've never put ammo back down because it was for the wrong type of targets

Airguns suck for what I do. 22s are just so much more convenient. It sounds like you're happy with the airgun, so why are you in here shitting on new ammo?

Field Target or FT is a very popular air rifle sport. That preceded the "Field matches" like NRL22 or PRS22 by a long margin. They estimate range and engage small flip over targets from often little to no support with quite small hit zones.

The FT guys would put many NRL guys to shame.

GIXXER2000 · Mar 8, 2024

I did talk with with Vudoo about ammo and they did say their barrels are tailored for Lapua. Having said that Friend for the local range shoot Eley Match Rifle and Eley Team in his Vudoo with great results. I always like to have options as we know precision 22LR ammo is hit a miss on availability.
Right now Lapua Long Range, SK Long Range Match and RWS R100 are my go to ammo for the Vudoo and the CZ 457 MTR shoots Lapua Center X , SK Match Rifle and RWS Special Match the best. I have a custom CZ 457 with 22in Lilja barrel that is waiting for my new chassis and looking forward to testing ammo in that.

flatland1 · Mar 9, 2024

My oldest V22 - built in 2017 from a bare action - shoots a few different lots of flatnose Eley Match better at 200yds than any of the lot-tested Lapua I've shot in it, though I don't remember comparing 100yd groups of each brand. And the flatnose Eley bullets didn't feed well the last time I tried them out of the V22 magazines with the original follower. I got some new followers that are supposed to work well with Eley ammo to try from VGW, but haven't tested to see yet.

justin amateur · Mar 9, 2024

My rifle likes such and such a brand, is usually based on a memory of a particularly good box of cartridges.
I've shot every brand of rimfire available in the US market from multiple rifles.
Never found a rifle that favored a particular brand.
What worked was finding those better bricks of cartridges that were uniformly well made with tight mv's.
Brand didn't matter, only the quality of the cartridges.
The problem is that a brick of a particular brand that produced spectacular results,
once used up, the next brick of the same brand was unable to do as well.
Welcome to the assembly line lottery, we pays our money and we takes our chances.
What shoots great from one batch, slings strays and fliers the next.

Lot testing is a necessity, not a luxury, when attempting precision rimfire.

steve123 · Mar 9, 2024

chevy_man said:
You're off in left field.

I've never heard of a field target match. It's an airgun thing I take it?

Would you believe they put words on the box that don't mean anything because they're marketing? I've never put ammo back down because it was for the wrong type of targets

Airguns suck for what I do. 22s are just so much more convenient. It sounds like you're happy with the airgun, so why are you in here shitting on new ammo?

You might have taken some of my comments wrong.

I was simply explaining what actual Field Target/FT is using airguns. As of the last 3-4 years a sport called EFT or UFT/Extreme or Ultimate FT has emerged in popularity which is also 99% an airgun sport, that is "except" for the UFT match in Phoenix which allows subsonic rimfire which is the one I compete in. I have used 22rf also in this match and set the course record at 47/48 with my Anschutz 1827F.

Yes there are what I call "Field Course" matches like the one at Raton NM which walking along through the area of approx a mile hike engaging steel at the various stages scattered throughout the course. This is a centerfire event though. I haven't kept up to know if there is a similar rimfire "FC" event like this anywhere else???

Back to what a major point is I hope to prioritize and that is again BC.
Of course we want high precision.
Of course we want lower SD.
And we can get that with lot testing of higher end ammo right now and have been for decades.

What is lacking is say a 45 grain .2 G1 BC bullet at 1100 fps or a bit lower. Understand? Why, you say, = less wind drift. But such ammo must also have the best precision capability and lower SD. Yes it'd be a specialty ammo for faster twist barrels like 1 in 14 or so.

Hey man grab any ammo you want and have fun, I do that too, and my post was not meant to put down ammo Co's but to point out some glaringly obvious marketing "hooks". Ha, we never saw any 40gr rimfire bullets at common velocities before did we????????????????

chevy_man · Mar 9, 2024

steve123 said:
You might have taken some of my comments wrong.

I was simply explaining what actual Field Target/FT is using airguns. As of the last 3-4 years a sport called EFT or UFT/Extreme or Ultimate FT has emerged in popularity which is also 99% an airgun sport, that is "except" for the UFT match in Phoenix which allows subsonic rimfire which is the one I compete in. I have used 22rf also in this match and set the course record at 47/48 with my Anschutz 1827F.

Yes there are what I call "Field Course" matches like the one at Raton NM which walking along through the area of approx a mile hike engaging steel at the various stages scattered throughout the course. This is a centerfire event though. I haven't kept up to know if there is a similar rimfire "FC" event like this anywhere else???

Back to what a major point is I hope to prioritize and that is again BC.
Of course we want high precision.
Of course we want lower SD.
And we can get that with lot testing of higher end ammo right now and have been for decades.

What is lacking is say a 45 grain .2 G1 BC bullet at 1100 fps or a bit lower. Understand? Why, you say, = less wind drift. But such ammo must also have the best precision capability and lower SD. Yes it'd be a specialty ammo for faster twist barrels like 1 in 14 or so.

Hey man grab any ammo you want and have fun, I do that too, and my post was not meant to put down ammo Co's but to point out some glaringly obvious marketing "hooks". Ha, we never saw any 40gr rimfire bullets at common velocities before did we????????????????

Have you seen cutting edge bullets?

I doubt we see the major ammo manufacturers build anything that doesn't work in a 1:16 barrel.

steve123 · Mar 9, 2024

chevy_man said:
Have you seen cutting edge bullets?

I doubt we see the major ammo manufacturers build anything that doesn't work in a 1:16 barrel.

I have but that is a reloading specific thing as far as I know.

As to your other comment = build a field and they will come. BTW these faster twist barrels are not uncommon amongst long range 22rf enthusiasts already and I'm talking about with 40gr ammo.

If the ammo manufacturers did heavy longer bullets this ammo would become dominant for long range matches with 22rf as long as it shot well and had low SD because why/? BC.

I just wanted to mention that the 60gr, 25cal, .245 BC, airgun slugs that I use drift almost half as much as 22rf ammo. It's not insignificant.
Even at 100Y using my app it calls for .5 mil compensation for these slugs vs .9 mil for SK 22rf in a 10 mph full value wind. That equates to higher hit ratios the windier it is especially farther out at extreme distances.
Another example is I have a fox sized steel at 250Y and quite a few times now when it was windy I kept on the steel well using those slugs but not so much with the SK ammo.

steve123 · Mar 9, 2024

DFOOSKING said:
Field Target or FT is a very popular air rifle sport. That preceded the "Field matches" like NRL22 or PRS22 by a long margin. They estimate range and engage small flip over targets from often little to no support with quite small hit zones.

The FT guys would put many NRL guys to shame.

Thanks for the video.

Hard to believe that it'll be 25 years this year since I shot my first FT match! It's something I look forward to every springtime. We take the 5th wheel out to the sight and camp for 3-4 days but we often have a plinkfest within that time frame including other types of airgun matches.

bulletbluesky · Mar 10, 2024

For "Extreme" "Long range" shooting (300 yd+) these 22LR solids should be better:
https://cuttingedgebullets.com/products/curx-42gr-22lr-bundle-200ct
But they require barrel with 1:10" tw. rate and pain in a** to handload properly.

grauhanen · Mar 10, 2024

bulletbluesky said:
For "Extreme" "Long range" shooting (300 yd+) these 22LR solids should be better:
https://cuttingedgebullets.com/products/curx-42gr-22lr-bundle-200ct
But they require barrel with 1:10" tw. rate and pain in a** to handload properly.

Easier said than done. Reloading may be a good a solution when a reloader can load to similar standards as Eley and the other match ammo makers. Among current problems is that top quality pre-primed cases of are not available and crimping methods are often too inconsistent.

chevy_man · Mar 10, 2024

steve123 said:
I have but that is a reloading specific thing as far as I know.

As to your other comment = build a field and they will come. BTW these faster twist barrels are not uncommon amongst long range 22rf enthusiasts already and I'm talking about with 40gr ammo.

If the ammo manufacturers did heavy longer bullets this ammo would become dominant for long range matches with 22rf as long as it shot well and had low SD because why/? BC.

I just wanted to mention that the 60gr, 25cal, .245 BC, airgun slugs that I use drift almost half as much as 22rf ammo. It's not insignificant.
Even at 100Y using my app it calls for .5 mil compensation for these slugs vs .9 mil for SK 22rf in a 10 mph full value wind. That equates to higher hit ratios the windier it is especially farther out at extreme distances.
Another example is I have a fox sized steel at 250Y and quite a few times now when it was windy I kept on the steel well using those slugs but not so much with the SK ammo.

Is there a single rifle manufacturer offering a fast twist rimfire?

I know we want to think it's normal to build a rim-x or vudoo or any number of benchrest actions with custom barrels.

The truth is that there's more 10/22s sold every week than there are fast twist rimfires in existence.

bulletbluesky · Mar 10, 2024

grauhanen said:
Easier said than done. Reloading may be a good a solution when a reloader can load to similar standards as Eley and the other match ammo makers. Among current problems is that top quality pre-primed cases of are not available and crimping methods are often too inconsistent.

Agreed. I would say that for the success in extreme long range shooting with these one needs to be an extreme handloading enthusiast

Milo 2.5 · Mar 10, 2024

chevy_man said:
Is there a single rifle manufacturer offering a fast twist rimfire?

I know we want to think it's normal to build a rim-x or vudoo or any number of benchrest actions with custom barrels.

The truth is that there's more 10/22s sold every week than there are fast twist rimfires in existence.

Lol, at this stage, why would they? There's really not any widely accepted substantial proof of any benefits of one. I shoot one, and a 2nd showing up tomorrow, I Know what I see, proving it you with the equipment available to me at a reasonable becomes difficult.
In the same breath, I have shot a 16tw barrel at 5 & 600 yards beside a 13tw in certain wind conditions and I could not differentiate between the 2. I've also tried a 9tw, and it was not for me.
It's a niche market, probably always will be. I don't know how else to say it, if you want to shoot fast tw, you best have the desire to fuck around.

steve123 · Mar 10, 2024

chevy_man said:
Is there a single rifle manufacturer offering a fast twist rimfire?

I know we want to think it's normal to build a rim-x or vudoo or any number of benchrest actions with custom barrels.

The truth is that there's more 10/22s sold every week than there are fast twist rimfires in existence.

I doubt there is and I'm not disagreeing with you.

Actually personally I'm not enthused with shooting rimfire at extreme distances any more anyway because the vertical is a bit dismal due to high-ish SD and the wind drift is huge. And also the effort and expense in testing and chasing good ammo gets annoying and time consuming. 22rf ammo is what it is.

Instead of rimfire I wish we had very small centerfire cases in factory ammo and light bullets that have the .2-.3 G1 BC's and mini actioned repeaters to shoot them in like Vudoo's.
Yeah I know its probably never going to become mainstream.
I asked the previous owner of Vudoo to make their own proprietary rifle and ammo. He thought it was a cool idea but I don't think anything came of it.

This case that I use based off 221 Fireball, which is necked down to 20 cal, and AI'd, is absolutely amazing for 19 grains of powder but it has way too much powder capacity than what I would want for a mini centerfire which would be 10-12 or so grains.
It sends a 32 grain at 3760 fps. What a joy to shoot it is and a very precise cartridge at that. Some challenge in the wind at long range but low SD.
On a calm day a few months back I was tagging a 21" plate at 1143 yards with it in my CZ527.

justin amateur · Mar 10, 2024

I hear ya' Steve.

I use 22lr to warm up at 200 yards, before setting up my F-Class 223.
Work out the yips and adjust to range conditions.
Then I send 40 grain Bergers at 3350 fps from a 26" Shilen barrel.

Small bore centerfire without the assembly issues of rimfire.
Same size holes in the paper without the vertical spread.

Bd1 · Mar 20, 2024

Brian Litz just gave a huge lift to the faster ammo! Read his article about Mach testing on the AB website.

bulletbluesky · Mar 21, 2024

Or you may just want to watch the interview:

simpletoms · Mar 24, 2024

Bryan Litz is certainly digging hard into LR .22 ballistics. He’ll definitely shed some light on the topic. It is interesting to see the why.

justin amateur · Mar 24, 2024

I can offer some thoughts for improving results at long range with rimfire.

Quite basic, actually.

Minimize primer and powder variations in amounts and chemistry.
That would allow for even ignition and burn rate producing tighter muzzle velocities.
Tighter tolerances in the shaping/forming of brass allowing more uniformity in case volume and final cartridge dimensions.
Better control of bullet material, shaping, seating and crimping.
Careful handling of components at the factory on and off the assembly line.
Better packaging, shipping and handling to ensure finished cartridges arrive in the hands of the consumers
in the same condition as those cartridges rolled off the assembly line.

Problem....the cost per cartridge would be exorbitant,
due to increased inspections and much slower manufacture rates.
But it would allow for more predictable trajectories due to greater uniformity in cartridge quality.

It ain't gonna happen.
I can reload centerfire to obtain better results than rimfire,
at a cost per cartridge that the manufacturers aren't able to equal.
They have to pay someone to do what I consider to be play.

simpletoms · Mar 24, 2024

JAIA, some people just want to watch the world burn. Can’t believe how much you’ve spent to feel entitled to complain. Litz will find some incremental nuggets that will move 22 shooting forward. What he learns might not be economically feasible to adapt to manufacturing, or it might be condition based (mach trimming). But it will gain us better understanding, like .22’s don’t follow a G1 profile and don’t really follow any profile... 10 years ago very few were shooting past 100 yards with a 22, now it’s mainstream. There’s still energy in this old cartridge, unlike your arguments.

justin amateur · Mar 24, 2024

All too true ST.

But being an obstinate old skeptic, doesn't invalidate my thinking.
You don't have to do anything difficult to improve the 22lr, 22wmr, 17hmr, 17hm2 or 17wsm to obtain better results.
Simply improve the quality and uniformity of the cartridges.
Is that going to happen? Unlikely. Why? Cost per cartridge and return on investment.
Rifles and support gear are as good as you can get.
The limiting factors are wind, shooter skill and cartridge quality.
Can't fix wind, skills can be gained or lost, but cartridge quality is always going to limit results.
No rifle can fix cartridge problems, no matter how optimistic you'd like me to be.

021411 · Jun 26, 2024

Just FYI KSS has them in stock now. Just ordered a few boxes to try.

ballisticdaddy · Jun 26, 2024

DFOOSKING said:
Field Target or FT is a very popular air rifle sport. That preceded the "Field matches" like NRL22 or PRS22 by a long margin. They estimate range and engage small flip over targets from often little to no support with quite small hit zones.

The FT guys would put many NRL guys to shame.

Nationals? In the first 5 seconds you see a guy with rifle over the shoulder turn around and muzzle everybody, holy shit show!

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