Beginner! Critique my reloading stuff and what else should i buy?

stello1001

stello1001

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    • Feb 20, 2017
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    Corpus Christi TX
    #1
    Hey all,

    I'm gonna want to get into reloading very soon. Do you guys care to share any constructive criticism and lemme know what I'm missing?

    Cartridges I shoot include:
    308
    270
    6.5 man bun
    223
    6.5 grendel

    I have plenty of accurate match ammo for most my rifles. My 2 bolt grendels are the ones that shoot poorly with factory ammo so I want to start loading grendel ammo.
    I am trying to make ammo that will be consistent, hopefully sub MOA. I don't necessarily need sub half MOA out of these rifles. They are hunting rifles and might occasionally plink with them just for fun.

    I have:

    Equipment -
    Rock chucker Supreme
    And the dies pictured below

    Components -
    Varget
    Blc2
    Ramshot Tac
    Plenty of 1x fired hornady brass
    New starline brass
    Wolf and federal primers small & large
    130 AR hybrids
    123 SST
    123 AMAX
    120 AMAX
    120 match burners

    I need a way to dump powder, a priming tool, maybe some calipers.

    Can somebody recommend specific models of these that you have found to like the best or work the best?

    What else am I missing?
    20240521_214933.jpg
    Left to right:
    RCBS 6.5 GRENDEL SEAT 21
    LEE 6.5 GRENDEL
    RCBS 6.5 GRENDEL FL 21

    That is what they say

    ** edit to add**

    I should probably mention, I will probably start with blc2 and Tac using AMAX and SST bullets. Plan is to do OCW but that is later once I've actually loaded some rounds. I'm trying to get set up right now.
     
    Last edited:
    #2
    stello1001 said:
    Hey all,

    I'm gonna want to get into reloading very soon. Do you guys care to share any constructive criticism and lemme know what I'm missing?

    Cartridges I shoot include:
    308
    270
    6.5 man bun
    223
    6.5 grendel

    I have plenty of accurate match ammo for most my rifles. My 2 bolt grendels are the ones that shoot poorly with factory ammo so I want to start loading grendel ammo.
    I am trying to make ammo that will be consistent, hopefully sub MOA. I don't necessarily need sub half MOA out of these rifles. They are hunting rifles and might occasionally plink with them just for fun.

    I have:

    Equipment -
    Rock chucker Supreme
    And the dies pictured below

    Components -
    Varget
    Blc2
    Ramshot Tac
    Plenty of 1x fired hornady brass
    New starline brass
    Wolf and federal primers small & large
    130 AR hybrids
    123 SST
    123 AMAX
    120 AMAX
    120 match burners

    I need a way to dump powder, a priming tool, maybe some calipers.

    Can somebody recommend specific models of these that you have found to like the best or work the best?

    What else am I missing?
    View attachment 8423243
    Left to right:
    RCBS 6.5 GRENDEL SEAT 21
    LEE 6.5 GRENDEL
    RCBS 6.5 GRENDEL FL 21

    That is what they say

    ** edit to add**

    I should probably mention, I will probably start with blc2 and Tac using AMAX and SST bullets. Plan is to do OCW but that is later once I've actually loaded some rounds. I'm trying to get set up right now.
    Click to expand...
    Weighing your powder as consistently as possible is the biggest thing you can do towards getting good results from your reloaded cartridges. I've taken factory cartridges and pulled the bullets, weighing the powder from all the cartridge's and dividing the total weight by the number of cartridges, then recharging the cases with that powder in more uniform weights in the cartridges. Also, I made sure all the cartridges were seated the same as one of the originals. The result has been a huge improvement in consistency in MV as well as what I got on paper. The better the scale you use for this, the better the results you'll get. After that, it's more about fine tuning the uniformity of each case.

    I use a simple Lee Powder Measure to "dump powder", then I trickle up where my scale will give me a difference just from one granule of powder.

    For a priming tool that I feel would work really well for you is the Frankford Arsenal Platinum Priming Tool. You can do all those different cartridges and it's adjustable so you can get proper seating depth when using various cartridges that'll have various primer pocket depths.

    For a caliper, I'd recommend a good quality caliper like the Mitutoyo. Of course, there are cheaper calipers, but they tend be difficult to get consistent measurements. I have some cheap one to use when accuracy is not really critical. But the accuracy of my Mitutoyo is important in addition to the time it saves in just taking measurements.
     
    Last edited:
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    #5
    you'll want a reloading manual or ten if you dont already have them. we've all read them from cover to cover, at least i hope people have. that should be your go to when starting out. what i do or someone else does may not be what you want to do. the reloading manuals are there to keep things safe.

    not sure if you'll need a different insert for the AMAX, i had to get a different seater insert for the VLD's for my hornady seater, but now i use the forster seater with no issues,

    as a powder thrower, i use the rcbs chargemaster lite, used to use the powder thrower that came in the kit, then trickled up
    as a primer seater, i use the kn hand primer, used to use the primer seater that came in the kit before wanting something a little better
    calipers, i have hornady digital, analog and mitutoyo, started cheap before going expensive. they all do the job
    might want to look into a comparitor set also
    you'll also want a case trimmer
    maybe a stuck case remover, just in case
    case lube, cant forget case lube, or a stuck case remover will be used often
     
    #6
    I would suggest buying as many reloading manuals that you can get your hands on. They’re mostly written by lawyers but there is invaluable information in them.

    IMG_7180.jpeg


    The Lyman manuals are especially good for beginners. I’ve been buying them as new editions come out and giving the older ones away to local new reloaders for years.
     
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    #7
    Powder metering kind of depends. If you are using ball powder like blc2 you can get very accurate results just throwing charges with something like the Lee perfect powder measure, or RCBS powder thrower. You can get very accurate laods throwing extruded powder also but it doesn't meter well so it will show up in your ES and SD throwing extruded. Those numbers will start to rear their head past 600y with vertical spread in groups. So if you just hunt with these rifles. You might not care much about .2 or .4 grain spread throwing extruded powders.

    You can get a brass priming system for your press or one of the diffrent handprime tools.

    You will need a caliper to make sure your 1x brass is not over max trim length. And some sort of trim tool to trim the brass if it is.

    You will need a chamfer and debur tool to clean up case mouths.

    It is also nice to have a tumbler to clean case lube off full length sized cases. You can wipe it off with a rag though.
     
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    #8
    VSP968 said:
    I would suggest buying as many reloading manuals that you can get your hands on. They’re mostly written by lawyers but there is invaluable information in them.

    View attachment 8423301

    The Lyman manuals are especially good for beginners. I’ve been buying them as new editions come out and giving the older ones away to local new reloaders for years.
    Click to expand...

    so what did you learn with all that reloading manuals?

    I assume that you learn basics of reloading, not powder charts. So what is so different in every book, that you need 3 editions of same publisher?
     
    #10
    A good enough scale and a way to trickle up to proper weight from a normal powder thrower would be my move. Cost effective and plenty precise.

    Dial calipers will do the job just fine too. The rcbs hand primer or the frankford do well. Lyman trickler has served me well for years. Rcbs one is ok too! I've used an old rcbs powder thrower for years too. Works great on ball like your blc2. Less well with varget etc.
     
    #11
    Get a charge master, it’s the cheapest reliable way to get into electronic dispensing. And not having to have your time and attention focused on the actual act of weighing powder it’s well worth the could hundred bucks more than manual.

    Priming tool, I say whatever you can get with a tray so you’re not handling each primer individually. My lee hand primer was great until it wore in/out enough that it wasn’t able to seat all the way. A bench primer is easier on the grip.

    For trimming, go electronic and with a three way trim/chamfer/deburr cutter so you only handle each piece one time instead of 3.

    Calipers, Igauging origincal are pretty good and not that expensive, my mitutoyo are nicer feeling, smoother scrolling etc, but they are also a good bit more expensive.
     
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    #12
    Do not cheap out on a scale. You will buy an expensive one at some point so may as well save yourself some time and money and buy it now. The FX-8120 is pretty standard. If you want to save some additional time buying the AutoTrickler or SuperTrickler will auto-dispense the powder for you at pretty close to kernel level consistency.

    Or if you're handy with 3d printing and electronics you could make your own: https://github.com/eamars/OpenTrickler

    A case trimmer is another nice accessory. I actually like the Lyman unit, but the gucci guys in here are big fans of the Giraud or Henderson.
     
    #13
    JerkyFreak said:
    May want to get Lapua or Peterson brass. Hornady is not the most consistent nrass around.
    Click to expand...
    I always advocate for people to start w/ the cheapest brass they have, put a few reloads on it & then set it aside. New reloaders tend to overwork & over trim brass... but once they've got the hang of things, I definitely agree

    @stello1001
    I would start by focusing on a single cartridge with 1 powder in 1 brass and 1 or 2 bullets. The more variables a new reloader introduces, the more difficult it is going to be to discover & learn from your mistakes
     
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    #14
    Gee Kay said:
    you'll have to buy them to see what the differences are ;)

    reloading is not a guessing game, but theres always trial and the hospital if the oops i fucked up isnt too severe.
    Click to expand...

    You don’t need to buy them. Most of these books are outdated or the info is available for free online.

    Here’s a great video on a good process:


    Here’s the hodgdon book reference for loads so you don’t blow your gun apart:

    Hodgdon Reloading Data Center – The Brand Thats True

    hodgdonreloading.com hodgdonreloading.com
     
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    #15
    If you are just hunting and shooting under 400y. You don't need much to make ammo that shoots fine inside that window. Throwing extruded or ball would be fine. Some of Lee kits come with most everything you will need.

    The most attractive thing to me about 8208 was it is an extruded powder that throws well. Throwing charges is faster than weighing them for sure.

    I shot a lot of 300y groups when i first started relaoding throwing 26.6g of varget with a 55vmax. I was averging 1.7" at 300y with it, with bag and bipod. I shot lots of 400-600y pdogs with that ammo.
     
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    #16
    So if I have summarized all posts correctly, it seems as if I need the following:

    -Powder scale (am looking at the frankford arsenal platinum series)
    NOTE: will also look at the chargemaster @spife7980 has recommended
    -Powder measure to dump
    -Hand priming tool
    -Maybe a trickler (I'll be doing ball powders though)
    -Hornady one shot
    -Case puller (in case i stick a case)
    -Chamfer & debur tool
    -Trimming tool in case I have case stretch
    (I could get the 3 in 1 and do trimming, chamfer & debur all with one tool)
    -calipers
    -comparator (not entirely sure what this is but I have an idea and am about to go do research)
    -a couple manuals won't hurt (although most info is now readily available online)
    -I think I'm missing something but don't recall



    As per the comment to start with one powder and maybe just maybe 2 bullets. That's probably a good idea.

    I think I'll start with:
    Ramshot tac
    1x fireformed hornady brass
    120 amax & 123 amax

    I'll save my new Peterson brass for later so I can practice on shitty brass in case I overwork it or fuck it up in the beginning.
     
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    #17
    stello1001 said:
    -Powder scale (am looking at the frankford arsenal platinum series)
    -Powder measure to dump
    -Maybe a trickler (I'll be doing ball powders though)
    NOTE: will also look at the chargemaster @spife7980 has recommended
    Click to expand...
    If I were throwing ball powder and weighing it I would still want a trickler to make them easier. The chargemaster is a combination of the individual scale, throw and trickler into one.
    stello1001 said:
    -comparator (not entirely sure what this is but I have an idea and am about to go do research)
    Click to expand...
    The comparators are really just datums (2 dimensional plane, aka a round hole) that you can mount on your caliper to get a linear measurement on a round angled surface(3 dimensional object).

    Here you can see the headspace comparator being used to measure the shoulder
    1716485671730.png

    This is what it is measuring
    1716485793043.png

    This sort of illustrations headspace which is the distance from the point on the shoulder to the bolt face. When people say headspace in reloading they are meaning the headspace clearance, the space between the shoulder of the brass and the shoulder of the chamber.
    1716485935516.png

    As you screw the sizing die down deeper you force the shoulder lower which creates more clearance/empty space between the sized brass and the chamber. Sizing die not deep enough in the press means you feel the shoulder bottom out on the chamber as adequate clearance wasnt created, sizing die too deep and you create excess clearance which leads to excess work on the brass and relatively premature case failure.
    Thats why .002 difference between fired and sized is a generally agreed upon happy place, enough to not impede chambering but not so much its loosey goosey.



    A similar thing can be done on bullets to measure them down lower on the ogive (curved arc of the bullet nose) away from the meplat (bullet point)
    1716485861020.png
     
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    #18
    stello1001 said:
    So if I have summarized all posts correctly, it seems as if I need the following:

    -Powder scale (am looking at the frankford arsenal platinum series)
    NOTE: will also look at the chargemaster @spife7980 has recommended
    -Powder measure to dump
    -Hand priming tool
    -Maybe a trickler (I'll be doing ball powders though)
    -Hornady one shot
    -Case puller (in case i stick a case)
    -Chamfer & debur tool
    -Trimming tool in case I have case stretch
    (I could get the 3 in 1 and do trimming, chamfer & debur all with one tool)
    -calipers
    -comparator (not entirely sure what this is but I have an idea and am about to go do research)
    -a couple manuals won't hurt (although most info is now readily available online)
    -I think I'm missing something but don't recall



    As per the comment to start with one powder and maybe just maybe 2 bullets. That's probably a good idea.

    I think I'll start with:
    Ramshot tac
    1x fireformed hornady brass
    120 amax & 123 amax

    I'll save my new Peterson brass for later so I can practice on shitty brass in case I overwork it or fuck it up in the beginning.
    Click to expand...
    Hmmm???

    I didn't see what you'll be using to clean your brass. Any wet tumbler (no SS pins) will do for most really dirty brass. But if you're brass is ejected into mud and dirt that get inside the cases, then SS pins will help clean that out. Otherwise, a good vibrating tumble is good. . . especially if you're using medium grain rice.

    Because I feel is always a good idea to know where your lands is with regard to how your seating your bullets, I think its a good idea to get the Hornady headspace comparator in addition to the comparator for measuring cartridge BTO's (Base to Ogive):
    Also, an Overall Length Gauge:
    www.midwayusa.com

    Hornady Lock-N-Load Overall Length Ga Bolt Action

    The Hornady Lock-N-Load Overall Length Gauge is one of the best kept secrets to accurate reloading. This tool allows reloaders to quickly and easily...
    www.midwayusa.com www.midwayusa.com
     
    #19
    stello1001 said:
    NOTE: will also look at the chargemaster @spife7980 has recommended
    Click to expand...
    Definitely do this, it will save you time and you can skip these:
    stello1001 said:
    -Powder scale (am looking at the frankford arsenal platinum series)
    -Powder measure to dump
    -Maybe a trickler (I'll be doing ball powders though)
    Click to expand...

    You should definitely get the Hornady ogive & headspace comparators and a dry media tumbler mentioned by @spife7980 @straightshooter1
     
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    #21
    spife7980 said:
    If I were throwing ball powder and weighing it I would still want a trickler to make them easier. The chargemaster is a combination of the individual scale, throw and trickler into one.

    The comparators are really just datums (2 dimensional plane, aka a round hole) that you can mount on your caliper to get a linear measurement on a round angled surface(3 dimensional object).

    Here you can see the headspace comparator being used to measure the shoulder
    View attachment 8424196
    This is what it is measuring
    View attachment 8424197
    This sort of illustrations headspace which is the distance from the point on the shoulder to the bolt face. When people say headspace in reloading they are meaning the headspace clearance, the space between the shoulder of the brass and the shoulder of the chamber.
    View attachment 8424199
    As you screw the sizing die down deeper you force the shoulder lower which creates more clearance/empty space between the sized brass and the chamber. Sizing die not deep enough in the press means you feel the shoulder bottom out on the chamber as adequate clearance wasnt created, sizing die too deep and you create excess clearance which leads to excess work on the brass and relatively premature case failure.
    Thats why .002 difference between fired and sized is a generally agreed upon happy place, enough to not impede chambering but not so much its loosey goosey.



    A similar thing can be done on bullets to measure them down lower on the ogive (curved arc of the bullet nose) away from the meplat (bullet point)
    View attachment 8424198
    Click to expand...
    Ball powder throws inside .1g easy. I.E. the dump is proabaly as accurate as a chargeMaster.

    I do like having a chargemaster and use it regularly depending on the ammo I am loading. Or if I am loading an OCW tests it makes fast and easy.
     
    #23
    spife7980 said:
    If I were throwing ball powder and weighing it I would still want a trickler to make them easier. The chargemaster is a combination of the individual scale, throw and trickler into one.

    The comparators are really just datums (2 dimensional plane, aka a round hole) that you can mount on your caliper to get a linear measurement on a round angled surface(3 dimensional object).

    Here you can see the headspace comparator being used to measure the shoulder
    View attachment 8424196
    This is what it is measuring
    View attachment 8424197
    This sort of illustrations headspace which is the distance from the point on the shoulder to the bolt face. When people say headspace in reloading they are meaning the headspace clearance, the space between the shoulder of the brass and the shoulder of the chamber.
    View attachment 8424199
    As you screw the sizing die down deeper you force the shoulder lower which creates more clearance/empty space between the sized brass and the chamber. Sizing die not deep enough in the press means you feel the shoulder bottom out on the chamber as adequate clearance wasnt created, sizing die too deep and you create excess clearance which leads to excess work on the brass and relatively premature case failure.
    Thats why .002 difference between fired and sized is a generally agreed upon happy place, enough to not impede chambering but not so much its loosey goosey.



    A similar thing can be done on bullets to measure them down lower on the ogive (curved arc of the bullet nose) away from the meplat (bullet point)
    View attachment 8424198
    Click to expand...

    Ahh, yes! This is what a comparator is. I knew I knew what it was I just couldn't entirely remember haha. Definitely a good tool to have.

    I can use the method of letting the bolt free fall on an unprimed case and feel for resistance to identify when I'm touching the lands and then use comparator to confirm consistency across loaded cases. This would be one use for it, right?

    And then of course, a dry tumbler and media is what I had forgotten. I don't entirely think I'll require wet tumbling.
     
    #24
    R_A_W said:
    2 other things

    I've never needed a stuck case removal tool, just use enough lube & keep your sizing die clean

    You don't have to buy a media separator, but they're <$50 and do save a LOT of time
    Click to expand...
    Because I like to inspect my brass as I remove cleaning media from the cases, I simply use a small bucket and a pan with slots, pour the contents of the tumbler in and then empty a handful of cases at a time. When I see any media in the primer pockets I'll just pluck it out with a small screwdriver and once and a wile I'll see a sliver in a flash hole that needs to be push out. Whatever media you use, it's always a good idea to inspect them before loading.

    Media Separation.JPG
     
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    #25
    I would just dump varget too unless I am making ammo to shoot past 500y or so. For normal hunting ammo .3 or .4g spread is going to be fine as long your not on the edge of where the POI shifts as you work up in charge weight.
     
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    #26
    stello1001 said:
    Ahh, yes! This is what a comparator is. I knew I knew what it was I just couldn't entirely remember haha. Definitely a good tool to have.

    I can use the method of letting the bolt free fall on an unprimed case and feel for resistance to identify when I'm touching the lands and then use comparator to confirm consistency across loaded cases. This would be one use for it, right?

    And then of course, a dry tumbler and media is what I had forgotten. I don't entirely think I'll require wet tumbling.
    Click to expand...
    It's often a matter of preference, but one of the tools I use often during case prep is my RCBS headspace gauge to check my cases when I start sizing to be sure I'm getting the shoulder bump I'm after. I have a Hornady headspace comparator too, which shows me numbers from my caliper, but this gauge/Mic is just more convenient and faster.

    www.rcbs.com

    Precision Mic | RCBS

    RCBS Precision Mics determine chamber headspace and bullet seat depth by measuring from the datum point on the case shoulder to the base of the case.
    www.rcbs.com www.rcbs.com
     
    Last edited:
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    #27
    supercorndogs said:
    I would just dump varget too unless I am making ammo to shoot past 500y or so. For normal hunting ammo .3 or .4g spread is going to be fine as long your not on the edge of where the POI shifts as you work up in charge weight.
    Click to expand...
    I'm not opposed to dumping varget on whatever reloading setup and tools I end up with. I just want to start loading grendel first and I know blc2 or tac are better suited powders for said cartridge.

    I have varget for my 223 and 308, which I have plenty of good match ammo for. Hopefully by the time I've shot all that ammo, I've probably already upgraded and bought more or better tools.
     
    #28
    stello1001 said:
    I can use the method of letting the bolt free fall on an unprimed case and feel for resistance to identify when I'm touching the lands and then use comparator to confirm consistency across loaded cases. This would be one use for it, right?

    And then of course, a dry tumbler and media is what I had forgotten. I don't entirely think I'll require wet tumbling.
    Click to expand...
    I use the stripped bolt method to find my lands.
    Using the bullet comparator is how I assign a number to that point. From there you can measure to find how much jam or jump your seating depth your loaded rounds are and go from there. Its also how you can tell consistency across cases, yes.
     
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    #29
    stello1001 said:
    Hey all,

    I'm gonna want to get into reloading very soon. Do you guys care to share any constructive criticism and lemme know what I'm missing?

    Cartridges I shoot include:
    308
    270
    6.5 man bun
    223
    6.5 grendel

    I have plenty of accurate match ammo for most my rifles. My 2 bolt grendels are the ones that shoot poorly with factory ammo so I want to start loading grendel ammo.
    I am trying to make ammo that will be consistent, hopefully sub MOA. I don't necessarily need sub half MOA out of these rifles. They are hunting rifles and might occasionally plink with them just for fun.

    I have:

    Equipment -
    Rock chucker Supreme
    And the dies pictured below

    Components -
    Varget
    Blc2
    Ramshot Tac
    Plenty of 1x fired hornady brass
    New starline brass
    Wolf and federal primers small & large
    130 AR hybrids
    123 SST
    123 AMAX
    120 AMAX
    120 match burners

    I need a way to dump powder, a priming tool, maybe some calipers.

    Can somebody recommend specific models of these that you have found to like the best or work the best?

    What else am I missing?
    View attachment 8423243
    Left to right:
    RCBS 6.5 GRENDEL SEAT 21
    LEE 6.5 GRENDEL
    RCBS 6.5 GRENDEL FL 21

    That is what they say

    ** edit to add**

    I should probably mention, I will probably start with blc2 and Tac using AMAX and SST bullets. Plan is to do OCW but that is later once I've actually loaded some rounds. I'm trying to get set up right now.
    Click to expand...
    Figure it out.
     
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    #30
    Hey guys,

    Bringing this back up. Holy Moly have i realized things get real spendy real quick. I think in the past I've seen/heard people encouraging new shooters/reloaders to get into reloading because it's not too expensive with a very basic system when starting out and spending maybe $5-600 for simple, non-gucci tools and accessories. This has not been my case lol.

    I think I've got most of it down. I'm sure down the road I'll realize I don't and that I need to buy a million more things.

    What I am needing opinions right now is on tumbler and media and case prep station.

    There's different brands and types of trimmers. I know the Giraud Tri-way was recommended earlier on this thread. I gave it much consideration but realized it's not for me. I'll be reloading for 4 different calibers eventually so that's $400+ since I can't use one tri-way for different cartridges.

    Midway USA has a frankford arsenal prep station on sale for like $199 right now. If I can trim and prep both 6.5 grendel & 6.5 manbun on it (I need to go research and see if it's good for those outta the box or I gotta buy special attachments for those special cartridges) then I am good to go. Those are the cartridges I want to reload first.

    I also noticed an inexpensive Lyman E-ZEE trim set which works by hand or drill. I'd have to buy separate pilots for creed and grendel but are very inexpensive. I'd also have to buy separate chamfer & debur tool which is also very inexpensive.

    www.midwayusa.com

    Lyman E-ZEE TRIM Hand Case Trimmer Rifle Set

    Lyman is one of the industry leaders in trimming and case prep innovation. Lyman has introduced a case trimming system for the reloader interested in...
    www.midwayusa.com www.midwayusa.com

    Does anyone have experience with these and can recommend something.


    Also, the tumbler and media...
    I haven't done much research into this but I've seen and kept my eye on a frankford arsenal tumbler. I shoot some local matches so my brass gets ejected into dirt. This leaves some dust & dirt in it. I hardly ever shoot when it's muddy but I suppose a rare occasion like that could happen.

    Should I go with wet or dry? And is there a particular model you guys have had good experience with and recommend. Vice versa, is there one I should stay away from?

    As always, thanks for your help and advice.
     
    #31
    frankfrod arsenal tumbler with their corn works great and they make a strainer. just throw it in there with some nu finish polish for hour or two.
     
    #33
    stello1001 said:
    I'm not opposed to dumping varget on whatever reloading setup and tools I end up with. I just want to start loading grendel first and I know blc2 or tac are better suited powders for said cartridge.

    I have varget for my 223 and 308, which I have plenty of good match ammo for. Hopefully by the time I've shot all that ammo, I've probably already upgraded and bought more or better tools.
    Click to expand...
    I was just talking in general. There is a lot of stuff people do for ammo to shoot 600y+ that isn't going to gain you much if anything 400y and in. Eliminating things you don't need to do speeds up the process. I hate reloading. So anything to make it faster for me. 🤣🤣 Some people just like to reload and nitpick and worry about their SDs while never shooting past 100y. To each their own.

    I bet blc2 meters great. I haven't seen it but I assume it looks pretty much the same as most ball powders.
     
    #34
    straightshooter1 said:
    I've taken factory cartridges and pulled the bullets, weighing the powder from all the cartridge's and dividing the total weight by the number of cartridges, then recharging the cases with that powder in more uniform weights in the cartridges. Also, I made sure all the cartridges were seated the same as one of the originals. The result has been a huge improvement in consistency in MV as well as what I got on paper. The better the scale you use for this, the better the results you'll get. After that, it's more about fine tuning the uniformity of each case.
    Click to expand...

    Did you ever weigh the powder from the individual factory cases instead of just dumping the powder? I was just curious whether they were reasonably consistent or wildly inconsistent.


    straightshooter1 said:
    It's often a matter of preference, but one of the tools I use often during case prep is my RCBS headspace gauge to check my cases when I start sizing to be sure I'm getting the shoulder bump I'm after. I have a Hornady headspace comparator too, which shows me numbers from my caliper, but this gauge/Mic is just more convenient and faster.

    www.rcbs.com

    Precision Mic | RCBS

    RCBS Precision Mics determine chamber headspace and bullet seat depth by measuring from the datum point on the case shoulder to the base of the case.
    www.rcbs.com www.rcbs.com
    Click to expand...
    Neat! They even make one for 6GT.
     
    #35
    Malum Prohibitum said:
    Did you ever weigh the powder from the individual factory cases instead of just dumping the powder? I was just curious whether they were reasonably consistent or wildly inconsistent.
    Click to expand...
    Actually. . . yes, I did. Before I dumped the powder together, I weighed the powder from each case as I was also curious about what the differences might be between each case. I guess one could say they were "reasonably consistent" for factory loads, but not anywhere close to what I expect from my hand loads. The ES, as I recall was just over a full grain. I'm sure I must have recorded the data somewhere as I've done this more than once, but I can't seem to find my data file for that or I'd post it here. The consistency certainly shows up in the difference on the chrono between the factory loaded and those where the powder was taken and evenly redistributed.
     
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    #38
    this is from about 1998 time frame.
    YUGO M48 8 mm Mauser Bolt rifle.. from Ames for about $89 way back when

    8MM Turk surplus ammo 1944 date brass case on stripper clips

    Unassembled.. bullet weights 155.0, 154.9, 154.0, 154.0, and 153.9

    Powder is flake type weighs 49.1, 48.9, 49.2, 49.1 and 49.1 (pretty consistent)

    High 2836, Low 2800 AVG 2815 Spread 36, Std Dev 17
     
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    #39
    Former Cav said:
    this is from about 1998 time frame.
    YUGO M48 8 mm Mauser Bolt rifle.. from Ames for about $89 way back when

    8MM Turk surplus ammo 1944 date brass case on stripper clips

    Unassembled.. bullet weights 155.0, 154.9, 154.0, 154.0, and 153.9

    Powder is flake type weighs 49.1, 48.9, 49.2, 49.1 and 49.1 (pretty consistent)

    High 2836, Low 2800 AVG 2815 Spread 36, Std Dev 17
    Click to expand...
    So the NAZI's are better at metering ammo than freedom loving American ammunition manufacturers. Is that what you are saying? You are a NAZI sympathizer? Huh? Are you? Huh, huh?
     
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    #40
    I was actually only putting 85% of the powder back in. The M48 I had would KICK your AZZ on recoil. Makes my 12 gage feel like a 22.
    I got rid of the damned thing. That was about 25 years ago. I can't even imagine shooting that thing now that I am on blood thinners and crap medicines to keep my sorry azz alive. I even had to sell my two M1A's. SUX to get old...
     
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    #41
    Former Cav said:
    I was actually only putting 85% of the powder back in. The M48 I had would KICK your AZZ on recoil. Makes my 12 gage feel like a 22.
    I got rid of the damned thing. That was about 25 years ago. I can't even imagine shooting that thing now that I am on blood thinners and crap medicines to keep my sorry azz alive. I even had to sell my two M1A's. SUX to get old...
    Click to expand...
    When that cartridge was designed in 1903, battlefield commanders wanted a gun with a punch at a very long distance. The thought was universal, as it was the most widely used military cartridge in the world between the two world wars.

    It's really not much different than the .30-06 and American battlefield commander thinking during the same period of time (similar ballistics if bullet weights are the same).

    It took the invention of handheld rifles that fire full auto to get anybody thinking differently, resulting in the 7.92x 33 Kurz in Germany (a drastically shortened 8mm Mauser), the .308 in America (shortened only slightly .30-06 - they just could not bring themselves to lower the power much; complete fail on an assault rifle, but great round for other things) and the 7.62 x 39 in Russia.

    Notice the Germans and Russians shortened the case into the 30s mm range. The Americans only shortened the .30-06 to 51 mm. That is a lot of extra case capacity. Sure, it worked great as a sniper round in the 90s because it fit in a short action. But on a lightweight, handheld machine gun? No go.

    Americans finally figured out to go down in power to the 5.56 for full auto, and we have been there ever since.

    Recently, however, it looks like Americans are going back up in power now with the new Sig rifle contracts, with a new, much larger, and far more powerful 6.8 x 51 cartridge (.277 Fury). Note the 51 mm cartridge case length . . .
     
    Last edited:
    #43
    yes, I agree, that back "then" the military wanted something that could reach out to 600 yards or more and still have punch.
    that M48 yugo had a 3/4 inch wide steel buttplate. they must've been trying to save on steel. It it would have been as wide as the stock (what an inch and a quarter?) it would have "spread the kick out" over a wider area.
    I am shooting a 6.5 Grendel these days.
    Although I did shoot my SAR 48 match rifle last week and it didn't make me go black and blue.
     
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    #44
    stello1001 said:
    Hey all,

    I'm gonna want to get into reloading very soon. Do you guys care to share any constructive criticism and lemme know what I'm missing?

    Cartridges I shoot include:
    308
    270
    6.5 man bun
    223
    6.5 grendel

    I have plenty of accurate match ammo for most my rifles. My 2 bolt grendels are the ones that shoot poorly with factory ammo so I want to start loading grendel ammo.
    I am trying to make ammo that will be consistent, hopefully sub MOA. I don't necessarily need sub half MOA out of these rifles. They are hunting rifles and might occasionally plink with them just for fun.

    I have:

    Equipment -
    Rock chucker Supreme
    And the dies pictured below

    Components -
    Varget
    Blc2
    Ramshot Tac
    Plenty of 1x fired hornady brass
    New starline brass
    Wolf and federal primers small & large
    130 AR hybrids
    123 SST
    123 AMAX
    120 AMAX
    120 match burners

    I need a way to dump powder, a priming tool, maybe some calipers.

    Can somebody recommend specific models of these that you have found to like the best or work the best?

    What else am I missing?
    View attachment 8423243
    Left to right:
    RCBS 6.5 GRENDEL SEAT 21
    LEE 6.5 GRENDEL
    RCBS 6.5 GRENDEL FL 21

    That is what they say

    ** edit to add**

    I should probably mention, I will probably start with blc2 and Tac using AMAX and SST bullets. Plan is to do OCW but that is later once I've actually loaded some rounds. I'm trying to get set up right now.
    Click to expand...

    Don't take as long to get started as I have.

    I have taken forever to gather things, clean out my reloading area, which had become a storage area for everything, and get set up. I finally chamfered the virgin Alpha brass and was setting up my RCBS bench primer, when my wife started doing her passive aggressive stuff. I do not need to explain any further to the married among you.

    It seems she wanted more time together on her birthday weekend, not her husband in the reloading room.

    So I set it aside and gave her a very good weekend. Now she is all happy again. But now I am buried in work and not sure when I can get back to using the mandrels on the case mouth, priming, figuring out my RCBS powder dispenser/scale . . .

    oh, dammit, I just remembered have the Hornady OAL gauge and modified 6mmGT case, but not any comparators. . . and somebody in another thread recommended an RCBS precision mic
    www.rcbs.com

    Precision Mic | RCBS

    RCBS Precision Mics determine chamber headspace and bullet seat depth by measuring from the datum point on the case shoulder to the base of the case.
    www.rcbs.com www.rcbs.com

    The Precision Mic is an invaluable tool for handloaders who want to achieve safe, accurate loads that will extend the life of rifle brass. With just a few twists, the Precision Mic allows reloaders to determine chamber headspace and bullet seating depth to an accuracy of 0.001 inch. Its precise readings and ability to extend the life of rifle brass make it an excellent investment for anyone who takes reloading seriously
    Click to expand...

    Oooh . . .

    Oh, now, see what happens? Already thinking about buying more stuff.

    Then I still need to get out and see how rounds fire, and I suppose test different powder charges and different seating depths . . . blah, blah, blah


    I am halfway tempted to seat to the same overall length as my factory Match ammunition, charge the Varget to about the middle of the recommendations, and just see how it does.

    LOL ! 😆

    At least I would be shooting again. Oh, but I took my scope off, so I am going to have to rezero . . .
     
    #45
    I've screwed with the 6.5 Grendel for 3 years now and never had this much troubles with ladder loads etc.
    The best loads for my AR 15 I have found is this.
    3 LOADS… Mar 28, 2024

    FACTORY NEMO 120 Gr FMJ BT

    H 2596 Low 2515 Avg 2567 Ext Sprd 81 SD 32.8 Not that tight of a group either
    ***************************************************************************************

    TAC by Ramshot powder 27.8 and 27.2 108 Gr Scenar LUpua bullet

    27.2 Gr TAC H 2467 L 2336 AVG 2401 Ext SPRD 131 SD 92 cover 4 with a Quarter last one opened up

    27.7 Gr TAC H 2452 L 2425 AVG 2438 Ext Sprd 26 SD 13.1 ß all 5 bullets you could cover with a dime!

    2.221 overall length. CCI 41 starline brass 2nd firing cut to 1.510 Palmetto armory rifle w/ 1 in 8 twist SS

    Timney Trigger drop in 3 pound pull

    NExt best was VARGET, 27.8 grains in the same cases and with a 123 SST hornady bullet it shot 13/16 inch 5 shot group.
    but the best speed was only about 2350-2400.

    I'd like to get these loads up to about 2600
     
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    #46
    Former Cav said:
    I've screwed with the 6.5 Grendel for 3 years now and never had this much troubles with ladder loads etc.
    The best loads for my AR 15 I have found is this.
    3 LOADS… Mar 28, 2024

    FACTORY NEMO 120 Gr FMJ BT

    H 2596 Low 2515 Avg 2567 Ext Sprd 81 SD 32.8 Not that tight of a group either
    ***************************************************************************************

    TAC by Ramshot powder 27.8 and 27.2 108 Gr Scenar LUpua bullet

    27.2 Gr TAC H 2467 L 2336 AVG 2401 Ext SPRD 131 SD 92 cover 4 with a Quarter last one opened up

    27.7 Gr TAC H 2452 L 2425 AVG 2438 Ext Sprd 26 SD 13.1 ß all 5 bullets you could cover with a dime!

    2.221 overall length. CCI 41 starline brass 2nd firing cut to 1.510 Palmetto armory rifle w/ 1 in 8 twist SS

    Timney Trigger drop in 3 pound pull

    NExt best was VARGET, 27.8 grains in the same cases and with a 123 SST hornady bullet it shot 13/16 inch 5 shot group.
    but the best speed was only about 2350-2400.

    I'd like to get these loads up to about 2600
    Click to expand...


    What barrel length on this rifle that gave you 2350-2400 with varget?
     
    #47
    the rifle is a PSA AR 15. The upper is a 1 in 8 inch twist, and I have a timney drop in 3-1/2 pound straight bow trigger on it.

    Product Details​


    Details​


    Barrel Length: 20"
    Gas System: Rifle-length
    Barrel Profile: A2 Style
    Barrel Steel: 416R
    Barrel Finish: Stainless Steel
    Chrome Lining: None
    Muzzle Thread: 5/8-24
    Chamber: 6.5 Grendel; Type 2
    Twist Rate: 1:8
    Barrel Extension: M4
    Diameter at Gas Block: .750
    Gas Block Type: Low profile adjustable gas block
    Muzzle Device: A2 Flash Hider
    Receiver Material: Forged 7075 T6
    Receiver Type: M4
    Handguard Type: PSA 15" Lightweight M-Lok Free Float Rail
    Bolt Carrier Group Included: Yes
    Bolt Steel: 9310, Nitride Coated
    Bolt Carrier Profile: Full-auto
    Charging Handle Included: Yes
    Overall Length: 26.5"
    Weight as Configured: 4.5lbs

    I have two other uppers for it. (well one other now). I threw away the bear creek arsenal one. The other one is a Krieger 1 in 8 twist SS barrel. I've been having the "best luck" with the PSA unit believe it or not.
     
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    #48
    Former Cav said:
    the rifle is a PSA AR 15. The upper is a 1 in 8 inch twist, and I have a timney drop in 3-1/2 pound straight bow trigger on it.

    Product Details​


    Details​


    Barrel Length: 20"
    Gas System: Rifle-length
    Barrel Profile: A2 Style
    Barrel Steel: 416R
    Barrel Finish: Stainless Steel
    Chrome Lining: None
    Muzzle Thread: 5/8-24
    Chamber: 6.5 Grendel; Type 2
    Twist Rate: 1:8
    Barrel Extension: M4
    Diameter at Gas Block: .750
    Gas Block Type: Low profile adjustable gas block
    Muzzle Device: A2 Flash Hider
    Receiver Material: Forged 7075 T6
    Receiver Type: M4
    Handguard Type: PSA 15" Lightweight M-Lok Free Float Rail
    Bolt Carrier Group Included: Yes
    Bolt Steel: 9310, Nitride Coated
    Bolt Carrier Profile: Full-auto
    Charging Handle Included: Yes
    Overall Length: 26.5"
    Weight as Configured: 4.5lbs

    I have two other uppers for it. (well one other now). I threw away the bear creek arsenal one. The other one is a Krieger 1 in 8 twist SS barrel. I've been having the "best luck" with the PSA unit believe it or not.
    Click to expand...
    This is freaking awesome. I didn't think varget could produce decent-ish MVs in the grendel with 120 class bullets. I rather give up some velocity from the ball powders that shine in grendel but gain temp stability.
     
    #49
    I use varget in NRA highpower for the 223 with the 77 grain Sierra Match King Bullets, LC Brass, Sm Std Winchester Brand Priemers. They come out of the 20 inch barreled "service rifle" at 2667 FPS. 1 in 8 twist barrel from Wilson Gage via DPMS way back when.
    In 308, on a bolt gun for the 800,900 & 1000 yard lines (Palma match) I was using 45.0 grains of varget, R/P nickel brass (easy to find in the grass) Lg Std Winchester brand rifle primers, and 175 grain Sierra match king. Good for 1000 yards stays supersonic. 1 in 10 twist barrel. (I can't even lift this rifle now due to old age and health)
    IN 243, I was using
    Savage Rifle, Bolt, 1 in 9.25 savage barrel .243 winchester R/P Nickel Brass, Standard Large Rifle Winchester Brand primers, 75 Grain Hornady Brand VMAX MOLY coated, 39.7 grains Varget
    High 3308, Low 3212, AVG 3272, Spread 96 Std Dev 52
    these loads would shoot 1/2 inch or less in both a Remington 700 in 243 and this Savage. (I shot the barrel out in the Remington).
    I LOVE Varget. All the old NRA highpower guys got me into it and they were National match guys that went to camp perry every year.
     
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    #50
    Former Cav said:
    I use varget in NRA highpower for the 223 with the 77 grain Sierra Match King Bullets, LC Brass, Sm Std Winchester Brand Priemers. They come out of the 20 inch barreled "service rifle" at 2667 FPS. 1 in 8 twist barrel from Wilson Gage via DPMS way back when.
    In 308, on a bolt gun for the 800,900 & 1000 yard lines (Palma match) I was using 45.0 grains of varget, R/P nickel brass (easy to find in the grass) Lg Std Winchester brand rifle primers, and 175 grain Sierra match king. Good for 1000 yards stays supersonic. 1 in 10 twist barrel. (I can't even lift this rifle now due to old age and health)
    IN 243, I was using
    Savage Rifle, Bolt, 1 in 9.25 savage barrel .243 winchester R/P Nickel Brass, Standard Large Rifle Winchester Brand primers, 75 Grain Hornady Brand VMAX MOLY coated, 39.7 grains Varget
    High 3308, Low 3212, AVG 3272, Spread 96 Std Dev 52
    these loads would shoot 1/2 inch or less in both a Remington 700 in 243 and this Savage. (I shot the barrel out in the Remington).
    I LOVE Varget. All the old NRA highpower guys got me into it and they were National match guys that went to camp perry every year.
    Click to expand...
    Heck yeah brother. Varget is super flexible when it comes to cartridges it can be used in. I have some that I bought for when I start loading 223 & 308. I just didn't think it be good for grendel. Those are some low velocities you got but not bad at all. They will still get the job done.

    I'm sure varget would be more suited for grendel with light bullets but I'm gonna load 120 class bullets. Good to know I can still give it a go.
     
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