Beginner! Critique my reloading stuff and what else should i buy?

[stello1001]

Hey all,

I'm gonna want to get into reloading very soon. Do you guys care to share any constructive criticism and lemme know what I'm missing?

Cartridges I shoot include:
308
270
6.5 man bun
223
6.5 grendel

I have plenty of accurate match ammo for most my rifles. My 2 bolt grendels are the ones that shoot poorly with factory ammo so I want to start loading grendel ammo.
I am trying to make ammo that will be consistent, hopefully sub MOA. I don't necessarily need sub half MOA out of these rifles. They are hunting rifles and might occasionally plink with them just for fun.

I have:

Equipment -
Rock chucker Supreme
And the dies pictured below

Components -
Varget
Blc2
Ramshot Tac
Plenty of 1x fired hornady brass
New starline brass
Wolf and federal primers small & large
130 AR hybrids
123 SST
123 AMAX
120 AMAX
120 match burners

I need a way to dump powder, a priming tool, maybe some calipers.

Can somebody recommend specific models of these that you have found to like the best or work the best?

What else am I missing?

Left to right:
RCBS 6.5 GRENDEL SEAT 21
LEE 6.5 GRENDEL
RCBS 6.5 GRENDEL FL 21

That is what they say

** edit to add**

I should probably mention, I will probably start with blc2 and Tac using AMAX and SST bullets. Plan is to do OCW but that is later once I've actually loaded some rounds. I'm trying to get set up right now.

 

[straightshooter1]

Hey all,

I'm gonna want to get into reloading very soon. Do you guys care to share any constructive criticism and lemme know what I'm missing?

Cartridges I shoot include:
308
270
6.5 man bun
223
6.5 grendel

I have plenty of accurate match ammo for most my rifles. My 2 bolt grendels are the ones that shoot poorly with factory ammo so I want to start loading grendel ammo.
I am trying to make ammo that will be consistent, hopefully sub MOA. I don't necessarily need sub half MOA out of these rifles. They are hunting rifles and might occasionally plink with them just for fun.

I have:

Equipment -
Rock chucker Supreme
And the dies pictured below

Components -
Varget
Blc2
Ramshot Tac
Plenty of 1x fired hornady brass
New starline brass
Wolf and federal primers small & large
130 AR hybrids
123 SST
123 AMAX
120 AMAX
120 match burners

I need a way to dump powder, a priming tool, maybe some calipers.

Can somebody recommend specific models of these that you have found to like the best or work the best?

What else am I missing?
View attachment 8423243
Left to right:
RCBS 6.5 GRENDEL SEAT 21
LEE 6.5 GRENDEL
RCBS 6.5 GRENDEL FL 21

That is what they say

** edit to add**

I should probably mention, I will probably start with blc2 and Tac using AMAX and SST bullets. Plan is to do OCW but that is later once I've actually loaded some rounds. I'm trying to get set up right now.

Weighing your powder as consistently as possible is the biggest thing you can do towards getting good results from your reloaded cartridges. I've taken factory cartridges and pulled the bullets, weighing the powder from all the cartridge's and dividing the total weight by the number of cartridges, then recharging the cases with that powder in more uniform weights in the cartridges. Also, I made sure all the cartridges were seated the same as one of the originals. The result has been a huge improvement in consistency in MV as well as what I got on paper. The better the scale you use for this, the better the results you'll get. After that, it's more about fine tuning the uniformity of each case.

I use a simple Lee Powder Measure to "dump powder", then I trickle up where my scale will give me a difference just from one granule of powder.

For a priming tool that I feel would work really well for you is the Frankford Arsenal Platinum Priming Tool. You can do all those different cartridges and it's adjustable so you can get proper seating depth when using various cartridges that'll have various primer pocket depths.

For a caliper, I'd recommend a good quality caliper like the Mitutoyo. Of course, there are cheaper calipers, but they tend be difficult to get consistent measurements. I have some cheap one to use when accuracy is not really critical. But the accuracy of my Mitutoyo is important in addition to the time it saves in just taking measurements.

 

[MarkyMark007]

you dont have all new guccy useless reloading stuff, which the most active posters here are shilling.

so you sux!

 

[JerkyFreak]

May want to get Lapua or Peterson brass. Hornady is not the most consistent nrass around.

 

[Gee Kay]

you'll want a reloading manual or ten if you dont already have them. we've all read them from cover to cover, at least i hope people have. that should be your go to when starting out. what i do or someone else does may not be what you want to do. the reloading manuals are there to keep things safe.

not sure if you'll need a different insert for the AMAX, i had to get a different seater insert for the VLD's for my hornady seater, but now i use the forster seater with no issues,

as a powder thrower, i use the rcbs chargemaster lite, used to use the powder thrower that came in the kit, then trickled up
as a primer seater, i use the kn hand primer, used to use the primer seater that came in the kit before wanting something a little better
calipers, i have hornady digital, analog and mitutoyo, started cheap before going expensive. they all do the job
might want to look into a comparitor set also
you'll also want a case trimmer
maybe a stuck case remover, just in case
case lube, cant forget case lube, or a stuck case remover will be used often

 

[VSP968]

I would suggest buying as many reloading manuals that you can get your hands on. They’re mostly written by lawyers but there is invaluable information in them.

The Lyman manuals are especially good for beginners. I’ve been buying them as new editions come out and giving the older ones away to local new reloaders for years.

 

[supercorndogs]

Powder metering kind of depends. If you are using ball powder like blc2 you can get very accurate results just throwing charges with something like the Lee perfect powder measure, or RCBS powder thrower. You can get very accurate laods throwing extruded powder also but it doesn't meter well so it will show up in your ES and SD throwing extruded. Those numbers will start to rear their head past 600y with vertical spread in groups. So if you just hunt with these rifles. You might not care much about .2 or .4 grain spread throwing extruded powders.

You can get a brass priming system for your press or one of the diffrent handprime tools.

You will need a caliper to make sure your 1x brass is not over max trim length. And some sort of trim tool to trim the brass if it is.

You will need a chamfer and debur tool to clean up case mouths.

It is also nice to have a tumbler to clean case lube off full length sized cases. You can wipe it off with a rag though.

 

[MarkyMark007]

I would suggest buying as many reloading manuals that you can get your hands on. They’re mostly written by lawyers but there is invaluable information in them.

View attachment 8423301

The Lyman manuals are especially good for beginners. I’ve been buying them as new editions come out and giving the older ones away to local new reloaders for years.

so what did you learn with all that reloading manuals?

I assume that you learn basics of reloading, not powder charts. So what is so different in every book, that you need 3 editions of same publisher?

 

[Gee Kay]

you'll have to buy them to see what the differences are

reloading is not a guessing game, but theres always trial and the hospital if the oops i fucked up isnt too severe.

 

[redbullitt]

A good enough scale and a way to trickle up to proper weight from a normal powder thrower would be my move. Cost effective and plenty precise.

Dial calipers will do the job just fine too. The rcbs hand primer or the frankford do well. Lyman trickler has served me well for years. Rcbs one is ok too! I've used an old rcbs powder thrower for years too. Works great on ball like your blc2. Less well with varget etc.

 

[spife7980]

Get a charge master, it’s the cheapest reliable way to get into electronic dispensing. And not having to have your time and attention focused on the actual act of weighing powder it’s well worth the could hundred bucks more than manual.

Priming tool, I say whatever you can get with a tray so you’re not handling each primer individually. My lee hand primer was great until it wore in/out enough that it wasn’t able to seat all the way. A bench primer is easier on the grip.

For trimming, go electronic and with a three way trim/chamfer/deburr cutter so you only handle each piece one time instead of 3.

Calipers, Igauging origincal are pretty good and not that expensive, my mitutoyo are nicer feeling, smoother scrolling etc, but they are also a good bit more expensive.

 

[Chris W.]

Do not cheap out on a scale. You will buy an expensive one at some point so may as well save yourself some time and money and buy it now. The FX-8120 is pretty standard. If you want to save some additional time buying the AutoTrickler or SuperTrickler will auto-dispense the powder for you at pretty close to kernel level consistency.

Or if you're handy with 3d printing and electronics you could make your own: https://github.com/eamars/OpenTrickler

A case trimmer is another nice accessory. I actually like the Lyman unit, but the gucci guys in here are big fans of the Giraud or Henderson.

 

[R_A_W]

May want to get Lapua or Peterson brass. Hornady is not the most consistent nrass around.

I always advocate for people to start w/ the cheapest brass they have, put a few reloads on it & then set it aside. New reloaders tend to overwork & over trim brass... but once they've got the hang of things, I definitely agree

@stello1001
I would start by focusing on a single cartridge with 1 powder in 1 brass and 1 or 2 bullets. The more variables a new reloader introduces, the more difficult it is going to be to discover & learn from your mistakes

 

[Maurygold]

you'll have to buy them to see what the differences are

reloading is not a guessing game, but theres always trial and the hospital if the oops i fucked up isnt too severe.

You don’t need to buy them. Most of these books are outdated or the info is available for free online.

Here’s a great video on a good process:


Here’s the hodgdon book reference for loads so you don’t blow your gun apart:

Hodgdon Reloading Data Center – The Brand Thats True

hodgdonreloading.com

 

[supercorndogs]

If you are just hunting and shooting under 400y. You don't need much to make ammo that shoots fine inside that window. Throwing extruded or ball would be fine. Some of Lee kits come with most everything you will need.

The most attractive thing to me about 8208 was it is an extruded powder that throws well. Throwing charges is faster than weighing them for sure.

I shot a lot of 300y groups when i first started relaoding throwing 26.6g of varget with a 55vmax. I was averging 1.7" at 300y with it, with bag and bipod. I shot lots of 400-600y pdogs with that ammo.

 

[stello1001]

So if I have summarized all posts correctly, it seems as if I need the following:

-Powder scale (am looking at the frankford arsenal platinum series)
NOTE: will also look at the chargemaster @spife7980 has recommended
-Powder measure to dump
-Hand priming tool
-Maybe a trickler (I'll be doing ball powders though)
-Hornady one shot
-Case puller (in case i stick a case)
-Chamfer & debur tool
-Trimming tool in case I have case stretch
(I could get the 3 in 1 and do trimming, chamfer & debur all with one tool)
-calipers
-comparator (not entirely sure what this is but I have an idea and am about to go do research)
-a couple manuals won't hurt (although most info is now readily available online)
-I think I'm missing something but don't recall



As per the comment to start with one powder and maybe just maybe 2 bullets. That's probably a good idea.

I think I'll start with:
Ramshot tac
1x fireformed hornady brass
120 amax & 123 amax

I'll save my new Peterson brass for later so I can practice on shitty brass in case I overwork it or fuck it up in the beginning.

 

[spife7980]

-Powder scale (am looking at the frankford arsenal platinum series)
-Powder measure to dump
-Maybe a trickler (I'll be doing ball powders though)
NOTE: will also look at the chargemaster @spife7980 has recommended

If I were throwing ball powder and weighing it I would still want a trickler to make them easier. The chargemaster is a combination of the individual scale, throw and trickler into one.

-comparator (not entirely sure what this is but I have an idea and am about to go do research)

The comparators are really just datums (2 dimensional plane, aka a round hole) that you can mount on your caliper to get a linear measurement on a round angled surface(3 dimensional object).

Here you can see the headspace comparator being used to measure the shoulder

This is what it is measuring

This sort of illustrations headspace which is the distance from the point on the shoulder to the bolt face. When people say headspace in reloading they are meaning the headspace clearance, the space between the shoulder of the brass and the shoulder of the chamber.

As you screw the sizing die down deeper you force the shoulder lower which creates more clearance/empty space between the sized brass and the chamber. Sizing die not deep enough in the press means you feel the shoulder bottom out on the chamber as adequate clearance wasnt created, sizing die too deep and you create excess clearance which leads to excess work on the brass and relatively premature case failure.
Thats why .002 difference between fired and sized is a generally agreed upon happy place, enough to not impede chambering but not so much its loosey goosey.



A similar thing can be done on bullets to measure them down lower on the ogive (curved arc of the bullet nose) away from the meplat (bullet point)

 

[straightshooter1]

So if I have summarized all posts correctly, it seems as if I need the following:

-Powder scale (am looking at the frankford arsenal platinum series)
NOTE: will also look at the chargemaster @spife7980 has recommended
-Powder measure to dump
-Hand priming tool
-Maybe a trickler (I'll be doing ball powders though)
-Hornady one shot
-Case puller (in case i stick a case)
-Chamfer & debur tool
-Trimming tool in case I have case stretch
(I could get the 3 in 1 and do trimming, chamfer & debur all with one tool)
-calipers
-comparator (not entirely sure what this is but I have an idea and am about to go do research)
-a couple manuals won't hurt (although most info is now readily available online)
-I think I'm missing something but don't recall



As per the comment to start with one powder and maybe just maybe 2 bullets. That's probably a good idea.

I think I'll start with:
Ramshot tac
1x fireformed hornady brass
120 amax & 123 amax

I'll save my new Peterson brass for later so I can practice on shitty brass in case I overwork it or fuck it up in the beginning.

Hmmm???

I didn't see what you'll be using to clean your brass. Any wet tumbler (no SS pins) will do for most really dirty brass. But if you're brass is ejected into mud and dirt that get inside the cases, then SS pins will help clean that out. Otherwise, a good vibrating tumble is good. . . especially if you're using medium grain rice.

Because I feel is always a good idea to know where your lands is with regard to how your seating your bullets, I think its a good idea to get the Hornady headspace comparator in addition to the comparator for measuring cartridge BTO's (Base to Ogive):

https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/hornady-lock-n-load-headspace-kit

Also, an Overall Length Gauge:

Hornady Lock-N-Load Overall Length Ga Bolt Action

The Hornady Lock-N-Load Overall Length Gauge is one of the best kept secrets to accurate reloading. This tool allows reloaders to quickly and easily...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[R_A_W]

NOTE: will also look at the chargemaster @spife7980 has recommended

Definitely do this, it will save you time and you can skip these:

-Powder scale (am looking at the frankford arsenal platinum series)
-Powder measure to dump
-Maybe a trickler (I'll be doing ball powders though)

You should definitely get the Hornady ogive & headspace comparators and a dry media tumbler mentioned by @spife7980 @straightshooter1

 

[R_A_W]

2 other things

I've never needed a stuck case removal tool, just use enough lube & keep your sizing die clean

You don't have to buy a media separator, but they're <$50 and do save a LOT of time

 

[supercorndogs]

If I were throwing ball powder and weighing it I would still want a trickler to make them easier. The chargemaster is a combination of the individual scale, throw and trickler into one.

The comparators are really just datums (2 dimensional plane, aka a round hole) that you can mount on your caliper to get a linear measurement on a round angled surface(3 dimensional object).

Here you can see the headspace comparator being used to measure the shoulder
View attachment 8424196
This is what it is measuring
View attachment 8424197
This sort of illustrations headspace which is the distance from the point on the shoulder to the bolt face. When people say headspace in reloading they are meaning the headspace clearance, the space between the shoulder of the brass and the shoulder of the chamber.
View attachment 8424199
As you screw the sizing die down deeper you force the shoulder lower which creates more clearance/empty space between the sized brass and the chamber. Sizing die not deep enough in the press means you feel the shoulder bottom out on the chamber as adequate clearance wasnt created, sizing die too deep and you create excess clearance which leads to excess work on the brass and relatively premature case failure.
Thats why .002 difference between fired and sized is a generally agreed upon happy place, enough to not impede chambering but not so much its loosey goosey.



A similar thing can be done on bullets to measure them down lower on the ogive (curved arc of the bullet nose) away from the meplat (bullet point)
View attachment 8424198

Ball powder throws inside .1g easy. I.E. the dump is proabaly as accurate as a chargeMaster.

I do like having a chargemaster and use it regularly depending on the ammo I am loading. Or if I am loading an OCW tests it makes fast and easy.

 

[R_A_W]

looks like he's using Varget too though

 

[stello1001]

If I were throwing ball powder and weighing it I would still want a trickler to make them easier. The chargemaster is a combination of the individual scale, throw and trickler into one.

The comparators are really just datums (2 dimensional plane, aka a round hole) that you can mount on your caliper to get a linear measurement on a round angled surface(3 dimensional object).

Here you can see the headspace comparator being used to measure the shoulder
View attachment 8424196
This is what it is measuring
View attachment 8424197
This sort of illustrations headspace which is the distance from the point on the shoulder to the bolt face. When people say headspace in reloading they are meaning the headspace clearance, the space between the shoulder of the brass and the shoulder of the chamber.
View attachment 8424199
As you screw the sizing die down deeper you force the shoulder lower which creates more clearance/empty space between the sized brass and the chamber. Sizing die not deep enough in the press means you feel the shoulder bottom out on the chamber as adequate clearance wasnt created, sizing die too deep and you create excess clearance which leads to excess work on the brass and relatively premature case failure.
Thats why .002 difference between fired and sized is a generally agreed upon happy place, enough to not impede chambering but not so much its loosey goosey.



A similar thing can be done on bullets to measure them down lower on the ogive (curved arc of the bullet nose) away from the meplat (bullet point)
View attachment 8424198

Ahh, yes! This is what a comparator is. I knew I knew what it was I just couldn't entirely remember haha. Definitely a good tool to have.

I can use the method of letting the bolt free fall on an unprimed case and feel for resistance to identify when I'm touching the lands and then use comparator to confirm consistency across loaded cases. This would be one use for it, right?

And then of course, a dry tumbler and media is what I had forgotten. I don't entirely think I'll require wet tumbling.

 

[straightshooter1]

2 other things

I've never needed a stuck case removal tool, just use enough lube & keep your sizing die clean

You don't have to buy a media separator, but they're <$50 and do save a LOT of time

Because I like to inspect my brass as I remove cleaning media from the cases, I simply use a small bucket and a pan with slots, pour the contents of the tumbler in and then empty a handful of cases at a time. When I see any media in the primer pockets I'll just pluck it out with a small screwdriver and once and a wile I'll see a sliver in a flash hole that needs to be push out. Whatever media you use, it's always a good idea to inspect them before loading.

 

[supercorndogs]

I would just dump varget too unless I am making ammo to shoot past 500y or so. For normal hunting ammo .3 or .4g spread is going to be fine as long your not on the edge of where the POI shifts as you work up in charge weight.

 

[straightshooter1]

Ahh, yes! This is what a comparator is. I knew I knew what it was I just couldn't entirely remember haha. Definitely a good tool to have.

I can use the method of letting the bolt free fall on an unprimed case and feel for resistance to identify when I'm touching the lands and then use comparator to confirm consistency across loaded cases. This would be one use for it, right?

And then of course, a dry tumbler and media is what I had forgotten. I don't entirely think I'll require wet tumbling.

It's often a matter of preference, but one of the tools I use often during case prep is my RCBS headspace gauge to check my cases when I start sizing to be sure I'm getting the shoulder bump I'm after. I have a Hornady headspace comparator too, which shows me numbers from my caliper, but this gauge/Mic is just more convenient and faster.

Precision Mic | RCBS

RCBS Precision Mics determine chamber headspace and bullet seat depth by measuring from the datum point on the case shoulder to the base of the case.

www.rcbs.com

 

[stello1001]

I would just dump varget too unless I am making ammo to shoot past 500y or so. For normal hunting ammo .3 or .4g spread is going to be fine as long your not on the edge of where the POI shifts as you work up in charge weight.

I'm not opposed to dumping varget on whatever reloading setup and tools I end up with. I just want to start loading grendel first and I know blc2 or tac are better suited powders for said cartridge.

I have varget for my 223 and 308, which I have plenty of good match ammo for. Hopefully by the time I've shot all that ammo, I've probably already upgraded and bought more or better tools.

 

[spife7980]

I can use the method of letting the bolt free fall on an unprimed case and feel for resistance to identify when I'm touching the lands and then use comparator to confirm consistency across loaded cases. This would be one use for it, right?

And then of course, a dry tumbler and media is what I had forgotten. I don't entirely think I'll require wet tumbling.

I use the stripped bolt method to find my lands.
Using the bullet comparator is how I assign a number to that point. From there you can measure to find how much jam or jump your seating depth your loaded rounds are and go from there. Its also how you can tell consistency across cases, yes.

 

[Vinootz]

Hey all,

I'm gonna want to get into reloading very soon. Do you guys care to share any constructive criticism and lemme know what I'm missing?

Cartridges I shoot include:
308
270
6.5 man bun
223
6.5 grendel

I have plenty of accurate match ammo for most my rifles. My 2 bolt grendels are the ones that shoot poorly with factory ammo so I want to start loading grendel ammo.
I am trying to make ammo that will be consistent, hopefully sub MOA. I don't necessarily need sub half MOA out of these rifles. They are hunting rifles and might occasionally plink with them just for fun.

I have:

Equipment -
Rock chucker Supreme
And the dies pictured below

Components -
Varget
Blc2
Ramshot Tac
Plenty of 1x fired hornady brass
New starline brass
Wolf and federal primers small & large
130 AR hybrids
123 SST
123 AMAX
120 AMAX
120 match burners

I need a way to dump powder, a priming tool, maybe some calipers.

Can somebody recommend specific models of these that you have found to like the best or work the best?

What else am I missing?
View attachment 8423243
Left to right:
RCBS 6.5 GRENDEL SEAT 21
LEE 6.5 GRENDEL
RCBS 6.5 GRENDEL FL 21

That is what they say

** edit to add**

I should probably mention, I will probably start with blc2 and Tac using AMAX and SST bullets. Plan is to do OCW but that is later once I've actually loaded some rounds. I'm trying to get set up right now.

Figure it out.

 

[stello1001]

Hey guys,

Bringing this back up. Holy Moly have i realized things get real spendy real quick. I think in the past I've seen/heard people encouraging new shooters/reloaders to get into reloading because it's not too expensive with a very basic system when starting out and spending maybe $5-600 for simple, non-gucci tools and accessories. This has not been my case lol.

I think I've got most of it down. I'm sure down the road I'll realize I don't and that I need to buy a million more things.

What I am needing opinions right now is on tumbler and media and case prep station.

There's different brands and types of trimmers. I know the Giraud Tri-way was recommended earlier on this thread. I gave it much consideration but realized it's not for me. I'll be reloading for 4 different calibers eventually so that's $400+ since I can't use one tri-way for different cartridges.

Midway USA has a frankford arsenal prep station on sale for like $199 right now. If I can trim and prep both 6.5 grendel & 6.5 manbun on it (I need to go research and see if it's good for those outta the box or I gotta buy special attachments for those special cartridges) then I am good to go. Those are the cartridges I want to reload first.

I also noticed an inexpensive Lyman E-ZEE trim set which works by hand or drill. I'd have to buy separate pilots for creed and grendel but are very inexpensive. I'd also have to buy separate chamfer & debur tool which is also very inexpensive.

Lyman E-ZEE TRIM Hand Case Trimmer Rifle Set

Lyman is one of the industry leaders in trimming and case prep innovation. Lyman has introduced a case trimming system for the reloader interested in...

www.midwayusa.com

Does anyone have experience with these and can recommend something.


Also, the tumbler and media...
I haven't done much research into this but I've seen and kept my eye on a frankford arsenal tumbler. I shoot some local matches so my brass gets ejected into dirt. This leaves some dust & dirt in it. I hardly ever shoot when it's muddy but I suppose a rare occasion like that could happen.

Should I go with wet or dry? And is there a particular model you guys have had good experience with and recommend. Vice versa, is there one I should stay away from?

As always, thanks for your help and advice.

 

[Maurygold]

frankfrod arsenal tumbler with their corn works great and they make a strainer. just throw it in there with some nu finish polish for hour or two.

 

[Former Cav]

looks like you got it pretty well covered!

 

[supercorndogs]

I'm not opposed to dumping varget on whatever reloading setup and tools I end up with. I just want to start loading grendel first and I know blc2 or tac are better suited powders for said cartridge.

I have varget for my 223 and 308, which I have plenty of good match ammo for. Hopefully by the time I've shot all that ammo, I've probably already upgraded and bought more or better tools.

I was just talking in general. There is a lot of stuff people do for ammo to shoot 600y+ that isn't going to gain you much if anything 400y and in. Eliminating things you don't need to do speeds up the process. I hate reloading. So anything to make it faster for me. Some people just like to reload and nitpick and worry about their SDs while never shooting past 100y. To each their own.

I bet blc2 meters great. I haven't seen it but I assume it looks pretty much the same as most ball powders.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

I've taken factory cartridges and pulled the bullets, weighing the powder from all the cartridge's and dividing the total weight by the number of cartridges, then recharging the cases with that powder in more uniform weights in the cartridges. Also, I made sure all the cartridges were seated the same as one of the originals. The result has been a huge improvement in consistency in MV as well as what I got on paper. The better the scale you use for this, the better the results you'll get. After that, it's more about fine tuning the uniformity of each case.

Did you ever weigh the powder from the individual factory cases instead of just dumping the powder? I was just curious whether they were reasonably consistent or wildly inconsistent.

It's often a matter of preference, but one of the tools I use often during case prep is my RCBS headspace gauge to check my cases when I start sizing to be sure I'm getting the shoulder bump I'm after. I have a Hornady headspace comparator too, which shows me numbers from my caliper, but this gauge/Mic is just more convenient and faster.

Precision Mic | RCBS

RCBS Precision Mics determine chamber headspace and bullet seat depth by measuring from the datum point on the case shoulder to the base of the case.

www.rcbs.com

Neat! They even make one for 6GT.

 

[straightshooter1]

Did you ever weigh the powder from the individual factory cases instead of just dumping the powder? I was just curious whether they were reasonably consistent or wildly inconsistent.

Actually. . . yes, I did. Before I dumped the powder together, I weighed the powder from each case as I was also curious about what the differences might be between each case. I guess one could say they were "reasonably consistent" for factory loads, but not anywhere close to what I expect from my hand loads. The ES, as I recall was just over a full grain. I'm sure I must have recorded the data somewhere as I've done this more than once, but I can't seem to find my data file for that or I'd post it here. The consistency certainly shows up in the difference on the chrono between the factory loaded and those where the powder was taken and evenly redistributed.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

A full grain, wow.

 

[stello1001]

A full grain, wow.

Seems a bit excessive but I guess that's what mass produced ammo gets you.

 

[Former Cav]

this is from about 1998 time frame.
YUGO M48 8 mm Mauser Bolt rifle.. from Ames for about $89 way back when

8MM Turk surplus ammo 1944 date brass case on stripper clips

Unassembled.. bullet weights 155.0, 154.9, 154.0, 154.0, and 153.9

Powder is flake type weighs 49.1, 48.9, 49.2, 49.1 and 49.1 (pretty consistent)

High 2836, Low 2800 AVG 2815 Spread 36, Std Dev 17

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

this is from about 1998 time frame.
YUGO M48 8 mm Mauser Bolt rifle.. from Ames for about $89 way back when

8MM Turk surplus ammo 1944 date brass case on stripper clips

Unassembled.. bullet weights 155.0, 154.9, 154.0, 154.0, and 153.9

Powder is flake type weighs 49.1, 48.9, 49.2, 49.1 and 49.1 (pretty consistent)

High 2836, Low 2800 AVG 2815 Spread 36, Std Dev 17

So the NAZI's are better at metering ammo than freedom loving American ammunition manufacturers. Is that what you are saying? You are a NAZI sympathizer? Huh? Are you? Huh, huh?

 

[Former Cav]

I was actually only putting 85% of the powder back in. The M48 I had would KICK your AZZ on recoil. Makes my 12 gage feel like a 22.
I got rid of the damned thing. That was about 25 years ago. I can't even imagine shooting that thing now that I am on blood thinners and crap medicines to keep my sorry azz alive. I even had to sell my two M1A's. SUX to get old...

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

I was actually only putting 85% of the powder back in. The M48 I had would KICK your AZZ on recoil. Makes my 12 gage feel like a 22.
I got rid of the damned thing. That was about 25 years ago. I can't even imagine shooting that thing now that I am on blood thinners and crap medicines to keep my sorry azz alive. I even had to sell my two M1A's. SUX to get old...

When that cartridge was designed in 1903, battlefield commanders wanted a gun with a punch at a very long distance. The thought was universal, as it was the most widely used military cartridge in the world between the two world wars.

It's really not much different than the .30-06 and American battlefield commander thinking during the same period of time (similar ballistics if bullet weights are the same).

It took the invention of handheld rifles that fire full auto to get anybody thinking differently, resulting in the 7.92x 33 Kurz in Germany (a drastically shortened 8mm Mauser), the .308 in America (shortened only slightly .30-06 - they just could not bring themselves to lower the power much; complete fail on an assault rifle, but great round for other things) and the 7.62 x 39 in Russia.

Notice the Germans and Russians shortened the case into the 30s mm range. The Americans only shortened the .30-06 to 51 mm. That is a lot of extra case capacity. Sure, it worked great as a sniper round in the 90s because it fit in a short action. But on a lightweight, handheld machine gun? No go.

Americans finally figured out to go down in power to the 5.56 for full auto, and we have been there ever since.

Recently, however, it looks like Americans are going back up in power now with the new Sig rifle contracts, with a new, much larger, and far more powerful 6.8 x 51 cartridge (.277 Fury). Note the 51 mm cartridge case length . . .

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

You don’t need to buy them. Most of these books are outdated or the info is available for free online.

Here’s a great video on a good process:


Here’s the hodgdon book reference for loads so you don’t blow your gun apart:

Hodgdon Reloading Data Center – The Brand Thats True

hodgdonreloading.com

I bookmarked this. Thank you.

 

[Former Cav]

yes, I agree, that back "then" the military wanted something that could reach out to 600 yards or more and still have punch.
that M48 yugo had a 3/4 inch wide steel buttplate. they must've been trying to save on steel. It it would have been as wide as the stock (what an inch and a quarter?) it would have "spread the kick out" over a wider area.
I am shooting a 6.5 Grendel these days.
Although I did shoot my SAR 48 match rifle last week and it didn't make me go black and blue.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Hey all,

I'm gonna want to get into reloading very soon. Do you guys care to share any constructive criticism and lemme know what I'm missing?

Cartridges I shoot include:
308
270
6.5 man bun
223
6.5 grendel

I have plenty of accurate match ammo for most my rifles. My 2 bolt grendels are the ones that shoot poorly with factory ammo so I want to start loading grendel ammo.
I am trying to make ammo that will be consistent, hopefully sub MOA. I don't necessarily need sub half MOA out of these rifles. They are hunting rifles and might occasionally plink with them just for fun.

I have:

Equipment -
Rock chucker Supreme
And the dies pictured below

Components -
Varget
Blc2
Ramshot Tac
Plenty of 1x fired hornady brass
New starline brass
Wolf and federal primers small & large
130 AR hybrids
123 SST
123 AMAX
120 AMAX
120 match burners

I need a way to dump powder, a priming tool, maybe some calipers.

Can somebody recommend specific models of these that you have found to like the best or work the best?

What else am I missing?
View attachment 8423243
Left to right:
RCBS 6.5 GRENDEL SEAT 21
LEE 6.5 GRENDEL
RCBS 6.5 GRENDEL FL 21

That is what they say

** edit to add**

I should probably mention, I will probably start with blc2 and Tac using AMAX and SST bullets. Plan is to do OCW but that is later once I've actually loaded some rounds. I'm trying to get set up right now.

Don't take as long to get started as I have.

I have taken forever to gather things, clean out my reloading area, which had become a storage area for everything, and get set up. I finally chamfered the virgin Alpha brass and was setting up my RCBS bench primer, when my wife started doing her passive aggressive stuff. I do not need to explain any further to the married among you.

It seems she wanted more time together on her birthday weekend, not her husband in the reloading room.

So I set it aside and gave her a very good weekend. Now she is all happy again. But now I am buried in work and not sure when I can get back to using the mandrels on the case mouth, priming, figuring out my RCBS powder dispenser/scale . . .

oh, dammit, I just remembered have the Hornady OAL gauge and modified 6mmGT case, but not any comparators. . . and somebody in another thread recommended an RCBS precision mic

Precision Mic | RCBS

RCBS Precision Mics determine chamber headspace and bullet seat depth by measuring from the datum point on the case shoulder to the base of the case.

www.rcbs.com

The Precision Mic is an invaluable tool for handloaders who want to achieve safe, accurate loads that will extend the life of rifle brass. With just a few twists, the Precision Mic allows reloaders to determine chamber headspace and bullet seating depth to an accuracy of 0.001 inch. Its precise readings and ability to extend the life of rifle brass make it an excellent investment for anyone who takes reloading seriously

Oooh . . .

Oh, now, see what happens? Already thinking about buying more stuff.

Then I still need to get out and see how rounds fire, and I suppose test different powder charges and different seating depths . . . blah, blah, blah


I am halfway tempted to seat to the same overall length as my factory Match ammunition, charge the Varget to about the middle of the recommendations, and just see how it does.

LOL !

At least I would be shooting again. Oh, but I took my scope off, so I am going to have to rezero . . .

 

[Former Cav]

I've screwed with the 6.5 Grendel for 3 years now and never had this much troubles with ladder loads etc.
The best loads for my AR 15 I have found is this.
3 LOADS… Mar 28, 2024

FACTORY NEMO 120 Gr FMJ BT

H 2596 Low 2515 Avg 2567 Ext Sprd 81 SD 32.8 Not that tight of a group either
***************************************************************************************

TAC by Ramshot powder 27.8 and 27.2 108 Gr Scenar LUpua bullet

27.2 Gr TAC H 2467 L 2336 AVG 2401 Ext SPRD 131 SD 92 cover 4 with a Quarter last one opened up

27.7 Gr TAC H 2452 L 2425 AVG 2438 Ext Sprd 26 SD 13.1 ß all 5 bullets you could cover with a dime!

2.221 overall length. CCI 41 starline brass 2nd firing cut to 1.510 Palmetto armory rifle w/ 1 in 8 twist SS

Timney Trigger drop in 3 pound pull

NExt best was VARGET, 27.8 grains in the same cases and with a 123 SST hornady bullet it shot 13/16 inch 5 shot group.
but the best speed was only about 2350-2400.

I'd like to get these loads up to about 2600

 

[stello1001]

I've screwed with the 6.5 Grendel for 3 years now and never had this much troubles with ladder loads etc.
The best loads for my AR 15 I have found is this.
3 LOADS… Mar 28, 2024

FACTORY NEMO 120 Gr FMJ BT

H 2596 Low 2515 Avg 2567 Ext Sprd 81 SD 32.8 Not that tight of a group either
***************************************************************************************

TAC by Ramshot powder 27.8 and 27.2 108 Gr Scenar LUpua bullet

27.2 Gr TAC H 2467 L 2336 AVG 2401 Ext SPRD 131 SD 92 cover 4 with a Quarter last one opened up

27.7 Gr TAC H 2452 L 2425 AVG 2438 Ext Sprd 26 SD 13.1 ß all 5 bullets you could cover with a dime!

2.221 overall length. CCI 41 starline brass 2nd firing cut to 1.510 Palmetto armory rifle w/ 1 in 8 twist SS

Timney Trigger drop in 3 pound pull

NExt best was VARGET, 27.8 grains in the same cases and with a 123 SST hornady bullet it shot 13/16 inch 5 shot group.
but the best speed was only about 2350-2400.

I'd like to get these loads up to about 2600

What barrel length on this rifle that gave you 2350-2400 with varget?

 

[Former Cav]

the rifle is a PSA AR 15. The upper is a 1 in 8 inch twist, and I have a timney drop in 3-1/2 pound straight bow trigger on it.

Product Details​

Details​

Barrel Length: 20"
Gas System: Rifle-length
Barrel Profile: A2 Style
Barrel Steel: 416R
Barrel Finish: Stainless Steel
Chrome Lining: None
Muzzle Thread: 5/8-24
Chamber: 6.5 Grendel; Type 2
Twist Rate: 1:8
Barrel Extension: M4
Diameter at Gas Block: .750
Gas Block Type: Low profile adjustable gas block
Muzzle Device: A2 Flash Hider
Receiver Material: Forged 7075 T6
Receiver Type: M4
Handguard Type: PSA 15" Lightweight M-Lok Free Float Rail
Bolt Carrier Group Included: Yes
Bolt Steel: 9310, Nitride Coated
Bolt Carrier Profile: Full-auto
Charging Handle Included: Yes
Overall Length: 26.5"
Weight as Configured: 4.5lbs

I have two other uppers for it. (well one other now). I threw away the bear creek arsenal one. The other one is a Krieger 1 in 8 twist SS barrel. I've been having the "best luck" with the PSA unit believe it or not.

 

[stello1001]

the rifle is a PSA AR 15. The upper is a 1 in 8 inch twist, and I have a timney drop in 3-1/2 pound straight bow trigger on it.

Product Details​

Details​

Barrel Length: 20"
Gas System: Rifle-length
Barrel Profile: A2 Style
Barrel Steel: 416R
Barrel Finish: Stainless Steel
Chrome Lining: None
Muzzle Thread: 5/8-24
Chamber: 6.5 Grendel; Type 2
Twist Rate: 1:8
Barrel Extension: M4
Diameter at Gas Block: .750
Gas Block Type: Low profile adjustable gas block
Muzzle Device: A2 Flash Hider
Receiver Material: Forged 7075 T6
Receiver Type: M4
Handguard Type: PSA 15" Lightweight M-Lok Free Float Rail
Bolt Carrier Group Included: Yes
Bolt Steel: 9310, Nitride Coated
Bolt Carrier Profile: Full-auto
Charging Handle Included: Yes
Overall Length: 26.5"
Weight as Configured: 4.5lbs

I have two other uppers for it. (well one other now). I threw away the bear creek arsenal one. The other one is a Krieger 1 in 8 twist SS barrel. I've been having the "best luck" with the PSA unit believe it or not.

This is freaking awesome. I didn't think varget could produce decent-ish MVs in the grendel with 120 class bullets. I rather give up some velocity from the ball powders that shine in grendel but gain temp stability.

 

[Former Cav]

I use varget in NRA highpower for the 223 with the 77 grain Sierra Match King Bullets, LC Brass, Sm Std Winchester Brand Priemers. They come out of the 20 inch barreled "service rifle" at 2667 FPS. 1 in 8 twist barrel from Wilson Gage via DPMS way back when.
In 308, on a bolt gun for the 800,900 & 1000 yard lines (Palma match) I was using 45.0 grains of varget, R/P nickel brass (easy to find in the grass) Lg Std Winchester brand rifle primers, and 175 grain Sierra match king. Good for 1000 yards stays supersonic. 1 in 10 twist barrel. (I can't even lift this rifle now due to old age and health)
IN 243, I was using
Savage Rifle, Bolt, 1 in 9.25 savage barrel .243 winchester R/P Nickel Brass, Standard Large Rifle Winchester Brand primers, 75 Grain Hornady Brand VMAX MOLY coated, 39.7 grains Varget
High 3308, Low 3212, AVG 3272, Spread 96 Std Dev 52
these loads would shoot 1/2 inch or less in both a Remington 700 in 243 and this Savage. (I shot the barrel out in the Remington).
I LOVE Varget. All the old NRA highpower guys got me into it and they were National match guys that went to camp perry every year.

 

[stello1001]

I use varget in NRA highpower for the 223 with the 77 grain Sierra Match King Bullets, LC Brass, Sm Std Winchester Brand Priemers. They come out of the 20 inch barreled "service rifle" at 2667 FPS. 1 in 8 twist barrel from Wilson Gage via DPMS way back when.
In 308, on a bolt gun for the 800,900 & 1000 yard lines (Palma match) I was using 45.0 grains of varget, R/P nickel brass (easy to find in the grass) Lg Std Winchester brand rifle primers, and 175 grain Sierra match king. Good for 1000 yards stays supersonic. 1 in 10 twist barrel. (I can't even lift this rifle now due to old age and health)
IN 243, I was using
Savage Rifle, Bolt, 1 in 9.25 savage barrel .243 winchester R/P Nickel Brass, Standard Large Rifle Winchester Brand primers, 75 Grain Hornady Brand VMAX MOLY coated, 39.7 grains Varget
High 3308, Low 3212, AVG 3272, Spread 96 Std Dev 52
these loads would shoot 1/2 inch or less in both a Remington 700 in 243 and this Savage. (I shot the barrel out in the Remington).
I LOVE Varget. All the old NRA highpower guys got me into it and they were National match guys that went to camp perry every year.

Heck yeah brother. Varget is super flexible when it comes to cartridges it can be used in. I have some that I bought for when I start loading 223 & 308. I just didn't think it be good for grendel. Those are some low velocities you got but not bad at all. They will still get the job done.

I'm sure varget would be more suited for grendel with light bullets but I'm gonna load 120 class bullets. Good to know I can still give it a go.