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You don’t see flat spins in commercial aircraft that often……

#101
Can some of the pilots give us their opinion on the video in post #37?

He posts the speed and altitude every 20 seconds or so on a chart and then, later in the video, puts them on a 3D Googlemaps, so you can see the plane's path on the map, including about how high off the ground.

It descends about 1000 feet, then starts ascending while bleeding speed, does not make it back to altitude before speed drops to something like 45 mph all at once. Then of course it starts dropping at 10k per minute.

Is this video helpful at all?
 
#104
Malum Prohibitum said:
Can some of the pilots give us their opinion on the video in post #37?

He posts the speed and altitude every 20 seconds or so on a chart and then, later in the video, puts them on a 3D Googlemaps, so you can see the plane's path on the map, including about how high off the ground.

It descends about 1000 feet, then starts ascending while bleeding speed, does not make it back to altitude before speed drops to something like 45 mph all at once. Then of course it starts dropping at 10k per minute.

Is this video helpful at all?
Click to expand...
He’s still speculating based off data from a source like flight aware or flightradar24. Anything he says is pure speculation as we have no idea what the engines were doing whether deuce anti ice was in use flight control inputs any of that. We should really just not speculate at all as to happened u til the official report comes out
 
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#107
NoDopes said:
You realize you are both on an internet discussion forum? In the bear pit?
Click to expand...
I do so let me rephrase there’s speculating and then there’s just talking out of your ass. How’s that? somewhere along the line we got off the tangent of discussing what might’ve happened into this other bullshit and it takes away from being able to learn from the whole event and that video with a guy doing that stuff is literally speculation because he’s trying to take, very small bits of data and turn it into something that it could be completely wrong and he could be actually putting out this information that would take away from learning opportunity that this is accident is going to give us. None of us were in the cockpit and the closest thing we have to that is the flight data recorder, which hasn’t been found released. The data hasn’t been analyzed yet so we have no idea and it’s a lot like a police shooting. There may be a body camera, but we don’t know context and all the other stuff around it so it’s OK to discuss it and have ideas and opinions but we just gotta be real careful about coming up with absolute and stuff like that. That’s all I’m saying. I’m trying to educate a little without blaming the pilot because we don’t have a clue what happened. Maybe he did everything he could to recover from some mechanical failure but just couldn’t or maybe he fucked up and didn’t recognize icing. Who knows. But I’m happy to answer questions and help people gain some knowledge. Call it a professional courtesy to try not to speculate.
 
Last edited:
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#108
Chuck Yeager rode a flat spin down for over 90k feet with one of the most powerful mixed propulsion engines in the world behind him, activated the landing chute and all attempting to recover, and was still forced to punch out below 9k and the plane went into the dirt.

Apples and oranges, absolutely, but to my layman passenger ass it seems a flat spin recovery is pretty damn difficult for even the best of the best pilots. I tip my hat to all who do so much to keep your passengers safe, I never for once think it’s easy or routine defying gravity for a living.
 
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#110
_Windrider_ said:
He’s still speculating based off data from a source like flight aware or flightradar24. Anything he says is pure speculation as we have no idea what the engines were doing whether deuce anti ice was in use flight control inputs any of that. We should really just not speculate at all as to happened u til the official report comes out
Click to expand...
So when he gives an altitude, a time stamp, and a velocity, are those accurate, but we should not draw conclusions, or they are inaccurate? I do not know what flight aware or flightradar24 is. I guess I can go back and watch it again, as I thought he said where he pulled the data, but I am not sure how much that will tell me. I am out of my element.
 
#111
Malum Prohibitum said:
So when he gives an altitude, a time stamp, and a velocity, are those accurate, but we should not draw conclusions, or they are inaccurate? I do not know what flight aware or flightradar24 is. I guess I can go back and watch it again, as I thought he said where he pulled the data, but I am not sure how much that will tell me. I am out of my element.
Click to expand...
He probably did some maths but there no data to pull other than publicly available data.
Those sites are ATC tracking sites
 
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#112
If the time stamps are correct, that was more than 90 seconds from the speed dropping to almost zero, falling, falling, falling . . . everything spinning out the window . . .

I am guessing at some point a minute or so in everybody realizes this is the end in less than another minute.
 
#113
www.pbs.org

French experts join investigation into Brazil airliner crash

More than 40 families of victims of an airliner crash in Brazil gathered Sunday at a morgue and hotels in Sao Paulo as forensics experts worked to identify the remains of the 62 people killed.
www.pbs.org www.pbs.org


The bodies of the pilot, Danilo Santos Romano, and his co-pilot, Humberto de Campos Alencar e Silva, were the first to be identified. Another 10 have been identified since, local authorities said. One body is already set for burial, and another seven are expected to follow on Sunday, Sao Paulo’s state government said.

The airliner said in a statement to The Associated Press that Romano had just finished his first full year as commander. He was hired by the Brazilian company in November 2022 as a co-pilot. His experience with Voepass included 5,202 flying hours, all in planes of the ATR model, the only one the company owns.
Click to expand...
 
#115
_Windrider_ said:
Bob Hoover commander 500RA was not certified for aerobatics. But Hoover being Hoover he did it anyway. I believe it was experimental due to some modifications but don’t quote me on that
Click to expand...


"Having the opportunity to once do some work on Hoover’s Shrike when it was in town for an airshow, we can attest that this was a mostly stock airplane, and not heavily modded as many assumed."

www.aviationconsumer.com

Twin Commander 500 - Aviation Consumer

Years ago, the legendary Bob Hoover proved the 500-series Rockwell Shrike Commander’s nimble handling with an eye-widening airshow routine that will forever live on. But for more typical missions, the 500 Twin Commander rates high for owner satisfaction and dispatch reliability. It’s simply a...
www.aviationconsumer.com www.aviationconsumer.com

Take this for what little information it conveys. I don't know any details about airframe or power plants mods, but certainly he had aero qualified gyro instruments or gaged gyros at a minimum...yeah? I mean, this was a LONG time ago! haha
 
#116
NoDopes said:
I think it was a spin-off discussion about how/when pilots are/aren't doing the correct actions to save the plane and if it's even possible.
Damn, untwist those panties.
Click to expand...
Exactly.

You mentioned an incident where a pilot misinterpreted something the auto pilot was doing on a totally different aircraft than the atr and I brought up how in at least one max incident not knowing what the planes auto tech was doing played a role in that crash.

Both were inexperienced pilots and that likely lead to the contrary decisions.

I think the context was clear.

Neither had anything or any intention of tying in to the atr crash.

Besides the atr crash was a conspiracy to kill the doctor that had the cure for cancer so big Pharma can continue to make money.

It was just one of 30 Boeing planes that crashed that day and there have been 90 since.

I hope checklists are easier to understand.
 
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#118
pmclaine said:
Exactly.

You mentioned an incident where a pilot misinterpreted something the auto pilot was doing on a totally different aircraft than the atr and I brought up how in at least one max incident not knowing what the planes auto tech was doing played a role in that crash.

Both were inexperienced pilots and that likely lead to the contrary decisions.

I think the context was clear.

Neither had anything or any intention of tying in to the atr crash.

Besides the atr crash was a conspiracy to kill the doctor that had the cure for cancer so big Pharma can continue to make money.

It was just one of 30 Boeing planes that crashed that day and there have been 90 since.

I hope checklists are easier to understand.
Click to expand...
:ROFLMAO:
 
#122
#123
Leonardo Fereira said in an email on Aug. 12, “I was not on the plane that crashed in Brazil on Friday, tragically killing all its passengers, including cancer doctors travelling to a conference. I offer my sincere condolences to their family, friends, colleagues, and patients.”
 
#128
So it iced up and for some reason they turned anti ice off then on then off then on. Got too slow for an iced up frame ,stalled and badabing badaboom?
 
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#129
Im2bent said:
So it iced up and for some reason they turned anti ice off then on then off then on.
Click to expand...

Thats how you operate boots...

You inflate the boots and it breaks all the ice then you turn them off and wait... Then you inflate them again to break off the ice. rinse and repeat.

I dont know if that aircraft has an automated system on a time or whatever and the boots cycle every 60 seconds or something, no clue.
 
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#130
rjacobs said:
Thats how you operate boots...

You inflate the boots and it breaks all the ice then you turn them off and wait... Then you inflate them again to break off the ice. rinse and repeat.

I dont know if that aircraft has an automated system on a time or whatever and the boots cycle every 60 seconds or something, no clue.
Click to expand...
 
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