I recently discovered that people are shooting long range rifles chambered in 25 Creedmoor, and I thought this might be the ideal Creedmoor, at least in theory:
* less recoil, less drop, and more muzzle velocity than 6.5 Creed.
* heavier weight bullets with better BCs, better drift, and longer barrel life than 6 Creed.
The increased speed over 6.5 Creed would help with using it for hunting, as most bullets, especially the monos, in the small bore category thrive on 2600 fps and above speed when it comes to terminal performance. It's easier to land at that velocity when you start 100+ fps faster.
The better BCs, better drift, and extended barrel life over 6 Creed would aid in long range target shooting.
So is 25 Creed the goldilocks Creed?
I had to model it in Gordon's Reloading Tool to try to find out. I compared the following bullets out of a 24" barrel:
Target. Hunting.
6 Creed. 115 VLD. 80 TTSX-BT
25 Creed. 135 LRH. 100 TTSX-BT
6.5 Creed. 153.5 LRH. 120 TTSX-BT
Target:
For the each of the target bullet loads, I used a similar amount of Reload Swiss RS60 in GRT, which seemed to yield the best mix of velocity, %burn, Pmax, and load ratio. The 6 Creed sent the 115 gr Berger VLD at 3030 fps; the 25 Creed yielded 2900 fps with 135 gr hybrid; and the 6.5 Creed produced 2770 fps with the 153.5 gr hybrid.
With the Shooter app, I modeled the external ballistics of these three loads at 1000 yds and with a 10 mph crosswind. Here the 25 Creed came in second in drop and first in drift. The 6 Creed came in first in drop but last in drift, and the 6.5 came in last in drop and second in drift. With a 1st and 2nd place finish, the 25 Creed won in my book. It also beats the second place finisher, the 6 Creed, in barrel life. Of course all three are very capable long range target cartridges and any "wins" were achieved by small margins.
Hunting:
For each of the hunting loads I also used Reload Swiss RS60. Here in GRT the 6 Creed yielded insane velocities with the Barnes 80 gr TTSX, beating the 25 Creed's 100 gr and the 6.5 Creed's 120 gr bullets by 240 fps and 430 fps respectively, but 3500+ fps is hardly a requirement for a good hunting round. And the 6.5 Creed's 3130 fps is more than adequate to hit above 2600 fps at reasonable hunting distances, especially with the 6.5's better BCs preserving that speed over longer distances. With hunting it's hard to determine a clear winner, but here are some velocities and energies at range to help us decide.
6 Creed TTSX 80 gr (3550 fps):
2000 ft-lbs @ 50 yds
1500 ft-lbs @ 200 yds
1000 ft-lbs @ 400 yds
2600 fps @ 310 yds
2400 fps @ 390 yds
25 Creed TTSX 100 gr (3315 fps):
2000 ft-lbs @ 100 yds
1500 ft-lbs @ 260 yds
1000 ft-lbs @ 450 yds
2600 fps @ 260 yds
2400 fps @ 340 yds
6.5 Creed TTSX 120 gr (3130 fps):
2000 ft-lbs @ 160 yds
1500 ft-lbs @ 330 yds
1000 ft-lbs @ 550 yds
2600 fps @ 230 yds
2400 fps @ 320 yds
Let's say that 2000 ft-lb with at least 2400 fps (ideally 2600 fps or more for optimum monolithic bullet expansion) is enough to kill a moose with good shot placement on broadside; 1500 ft-lbs for an elk; and 1000 ft-lbs for a white tail deer. Discounting varmint hunting, how do the Creeds stack up?
Moose. Elk. White Tail.
6 Creed. 50 yd. 200 yd. 390 yd
25 Creed. 100 yd. 260 yd. 340 yd
6.5 Creed. 160 yd. 320 yd. 320 yd
It looks like 6.5 Creed is the winner in my book in the hunting category even without considering that it has a slightly larger diameter. It adds 60 yds to the range of moose and elk hunting when compared to the second place finisher, the 25 Creed, and it only gives up 20 yds on white tail due to insufficient bullet speed. 6 Creed wins with white tail at range due to its 1st in class speed and thus its maintenance of adequate bullet performance over longer distances.
The 25 Creed performs well here though too, earning second place honors with all three game types. 100 gr bullets on elk and moose might be a stretch but monos are known to punch above their weight if given adequate speed and energy.
Summary:
Target:
1st = 25 Creed
2nd = 6 Creed
3rd = 6.5 Creed
Hunting:
1st = 6.5 Creed
2nd = 25 Creed
3rd = 6 Creed
With a first and second place finish, I'd say the 25 Creedmoor is the best all around Creedmoor, with 6.5 coming in second. What did you think? Was this a fair analysis?
6 Creed would obviously have rocked the varmint hunting category, but if I analyzed this, I would have had to include 22 Creedmoor in the discussion. Also recoil differences turned out to be fairly negligible as calculated by GRT, with only 2 lb separating 6.5 from 6 Creed (with 25 Creed in the middle)
* less recoil, less drop, and more muzzle velocity than 6.5 Creed.
* heavier weight bullets with better BCs, better drift, and longer barrel life than 6 Creed.
The increased speed over 6.5 Creed would help with using it for hunting, as most bullets, especially the monos, in the small bore category thrive on 2600 fps and above speed when it comes to terminal performance. It's easier to land at that velocity when you start 100+ fps faster.
The better BCs, better drift, and extended barrel life over 6 Creed would aid in long range target shooting.
So is 25 Creed the goldilocks Creed?
I had to model it in Gordon's Reloading Tool to try to find out. I compared the following bullets out of a 24" barrel:
Target. Hunting.
6 Creed. 115 VLD. 80 TTSX-BT
25 Creed. 135 LRH. 100 TTSX-BT
6.5 Creed. 153.5 LRH. 120 TTSX-BT
Target:
For the each of the target bullet loads, I used a similar amount of Reload Swiss RS60 in GRT, which seemed to yield the best mix of velocity, %burn, Pmax, and load ratio. The 6 Creed sent the 115 gr Berger VLD at 3030 fps; the 25 Creed yielded 2900 fps with 135 gr hybrid; and the 6.5 Creed produced 2770 fps with the 153.5 gr hybrid.
With the Shooter app, I modeled the external ballistics of these three loads at 1000 yds and with a 10 mph crosswind. Here the 25 Creed came in second in drop and first in drift. The 6 Creed came in first in drop but last in drift, and the 6.5 came in last in drop and second in drift. With a 1st and 2nd place finish, the 25 Creed won in my book. It also beats the second place finisher, the 6 Creed, in barrel life. Of course all three are very capable long range target cartridges and any "wins" were achieved by small margins.
Hunting:
For each of the hunting loads I also used Reload Swiss RS60. Here in GRT the 6 Creed yielded insane velocities with the Barnes 80 gr TTSX, beating the 25 Creed's 100 gr and the 6.5 Creed's 120 gr bullets by 240 fps and 430 fps respectively, but 3500+ fps is hardly a requirement for a good hunting round. And the 6.5 Creed's 3130 fps is more than adequate to hit above 2600 fps at reasonable hunting distances, especially with the 6.5's better BCs preserving that speed over longer distances. With hunting it's hard to determine a clear winner, but here are some velocities and energies at range to help us decide.
6 Creed TTSX 80 gr (3550 fps):
2000 ft-lbs @ 50 yds
1500 ft-lbs @ 200 yds
1000 ft-lbs @ 400 yds
2600 fps @ 310 yds
2400 fps @ 390 yds
25 Creed TTSX 100 gr (3315 fps):
2000 ft-lbs @ 100 yds
1500 ft-lbs @ 260 yds
1000 ft-lbs @ 450 yds
2600 fps @ 260 yds
2400 fps @ 340 yds
6.5 Creed TTSX 120 gr (3130 fps):
2000 ft-lbs @ 160 yds
1500 ft-lbs @ 330 yds
1000 ft-lbs @ 550 yds
2600 fps @ 230 yds
2400 fps @ 320 yds
Let's say that 2000 ft-lb with at least 2400 fps (ideally 2600 fps or more for optimum monolithic bullet expansion) is enough to kill a moose with good shot placement on broadside; 1500 ft-lbs for an elk; and 1000 ft-lbs for a white tail deer. Discounting varmint hunting, how do the Creeds stack up?
Moose. Elk. White Tail.
6 Creed. 50 yd. 200 yd. 390 yd
25 Creed. 100 yd. 260 yd. 340 yd
6.5 Creed. 160 yd. 320 yd. 320 yd
It looks like 6.5 Creed is the winner in my book in the hunting category even without considering that it has a slightly larger diameter. It adds 60 yds to the range of moose and elk hunting when compared to the second place finisher, the 25 Creed, and it only gives up 20 yds on white tail due to insufficient bullet speed. 6 Creed wins with white tail at range due to its 1st in class speed and thus its maintenance of adequate bullet performance over longer distances.
The 25 Creed performs well here though too, earning second place honors with all three game types. 100 gr bullets on elk and moose might be a stretch but monos are known to punch above their weight if given adequate speed and energy.
Summary:
Target:
1st = 25 Creed
2nd = 6 Creed
3rd = 6.5 Creed
Hunting:
1st = 6.5 Creed
2nd = 25 Creed
3rd = 6 Creed
With a first and second place finish, I'd say the 25 Creedmoor is the best all around Creedmoor, with 6.5 coming in second. What did you think? Was this a fair analysis?
6 Creed would obviously have rocked the varmint hunting category, but if I analyzed this, I would have had to include 22 Creedmoor in the discussion. Also recoil differences turned out to be fairly negligible as calculated by GRT, with only 2 lb separating 6.5 from 6 Creed (with 25 Creed in the middle)
. Pretty sure every 2-day PRS match that’s been won with a 6.5 creed in the last 2 or 3 yrs was with 150 class bullets.
