I am in the market for a generator. What size of generator will I need to power multiple house hold appliances (Fridge, oven, stove, lights etc.) What brand is reputable.
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Member Link Up Seeking Advice on Selecting a Generator
- Thread starter abn_surfer
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You should determine how much power you need first. If you want it to start your air conditioner, you need to know what it takes to start it. There are some soft start modifications that allow you to use a smaller genset. But, measure the electricity being used by the things you want to have powered up so you know just what you need.
I have a 16kw Generac that runs our whole house. Furnace, a/c, Jacuzzi,... Had a storm come thru last week and we lived on it for 2 days. There have been several longer stretches.
We're in a rural area, and at the very end of the line. Anything happens and we lose power. 10 years ago, it was a great investment for $6600 installed. It's probably double that now.
We're in a rural area, and at the very end of the line. Anything happens and we lose power. 10 years ago, it was a great investment for $6600 installed. It's probably double that now.
We've had a whole home Generac for years, and it's been great. I think they have a generator size calculator on their website.
Go big or go home… pouring the foundation for this genset on Monday. Full size CAT turbo diesel with 240v single phase wiring.
It will power the Schloss and all the workshops with no issues!!!
I looked into the Kohler and similar and those are ok for single home use. But to do an entire farm, machine shop, outbuildings… when I already have diesel stores on site…. No brainer.
Also it predates computers. Is all analog. Going with manual transfer switch. It’s going to work when I want it to.
Propane and automation are fine. Until some diode on a chip goes tits-up. And then The generator is a lawn ornament. I don’t trust computerized generators any more than I trust my computerized car to be reliable.
Sirhr
PS. Foundation ready to pour. My rebar and mesh work may be third world… but it will be a brick s&@thhouse when it sets up!!! Still no bow kills or current bench press numbers, though.
It will power the Schloss and all the workshops with no issues!!!
I looked into the Kohler and similar and those are ok for single home use. But to do an entire farm, machine shop, outbuildings… when I already have diesel stores on site…. No brainer.
Also it predates computers. Is all analog. Going with manual transfer switch. It’s going to work when I want it to.
Propane and automation are fine. Until some diode on a chip goes tits-up. And then The generator is a lawn ornament. I don’t trust computerized generators any more than I trust my computerized car to be reliable.
Sirhr
PS. Foundation ready to pour. My rebar and mesh work may be third world… but it will be a brick s&@thhouse when it sets up!!! Still no bow kills or current bench press numbers, though.
So spend the money and get a good welder. Then its multipurpose. Can generate your house, can be gas or diesel, can fix shit. Or spend 8k on a generator that cant weld. Hell for 10k you can get one with 70 cfm air. Might not be automatic, but are you a pussy that cant plug in a cord?
Why are you using house wrap for the 'crete ?
You know that will cause the 'crete to hold in moisture and you'll have mold/mildew issues, right ?
I'd suggest 2-3 inches of either gravel or sand under the 'crete and nothing else sceptin the fore mentioned rebar/mesh.
You'll probably want it thicker then the 3 inches max it looks like you're formed up for, I would go minimum 4 inches and pref 5-6 if you're going to have a genset mounted with redheads vibrating for however many years.
Make sure to have some heavy ass duty rubber or urethane pads under the genset, they make em just for that.
Tell us more about these "vibrating redheads"...
Only thing I can say is I know 2 people who had gerenac propane generators and both have had issues. My FIL would run about 20% of the time the power went out, he had gone back to gas portable generators. My friends generac would run more reliably but was expensive to keep running. I would prefer diesel but I run a Honda inverter. My parents have a Honda inverter and it runs their house except the dryer and hot water heater. My dad has to shut most of the power off to run the hot water heater for an hour every 6-8 hours.
I have a 17K Generac, but it’s a portable. It’ll run the whole house (mine anyway). I bought it several years ago from Costco or Sam’s, I don’t remember. Never had any issues with it other than the fuel pump went out once, but the fuel tank is on top of the unit and it had enough head pressure to gravity feed enough fuel without the pump. I just bypassed it with a section of fuel line until I got a replacement.
As for the comment above about a welder, not a bad idea, but they usually top out around 10K-12K AC output (and that’s at 100% duty cycle). That is for a larger Lincoln or comparable model. I have a full welding rig on a trailer and I have used it before during an outage, but I’d never try to run my whole house off of it.
I did some double checking and the biggest welder Lincoln makes (330 model) only puts out 11K watts peak and 10K continuous. It’s around $10,000 plus tax unless you are exempt. For that price, I’d invest in a whole home generator setup that was hard wired in.
As for the comment above about a welder, not a bad idea, but they usually top out around 10K-12K AC output (and that’s at 100% duty cycle). That is for a larger Lincoln or comparable model. I have a full welding rig on a trailer and I have used it before during an outage, but I’d never try to run my whole house off of it.
I did some double checking and the biggest welder Lincoln makes (330 model) only puts out 11K watts peak and 10K continuous. It’s around $10,000 plus tax unless you are exempt. For that price, I’d invest in a whole home generator setup that was hard wired in.
We have a small house with a Briggs Pro 12 KV propane genset with an auto transfer switch. Flawless so far, and we are 5 years in.
Next house, I will likely do the Kubota genset, with a manual switch for many of the same reasons that Sirhir said. If not that, then a larger Cummins/Generac with an auto switch. Pretty nice when the A/C only stops for a minute or two at 2 AM in August instead of me having to haul out of bed to start a generator.
Next house, I will likely do the Kubota genset, with a manual switch for many of the same reasons that Sirhir said. If not that, then a larger Cummins/Generac with an auto switch. Pretty nice when the A/C only stops for a minute or two at 2 AM in August instead of me having to haul out of bed to start a generator.
I am 100% solar. I have a 22Kw Generac "backup" generator that was used as my main electric until I got my solar rigged up. Now it is used as a true back up to the solar but it wasn't designed as a "prime" generator so my warranty is void. I don't GAF. It's a generator and I figure I can wrench it if it needs wrenched.
It's propane because propane can sit in the tank virtually forever and still be good to go. Not so with diesel or gasoline. It is rigged to charge my batteries in the case of several days of not much sun. So far, I've only used it in test mode, good to go. It has been flawless other than having to figure out to rig it to charge its own battery, what a shit show that was. I am very diligent with preventative maintenance on everything I own, this generator is no exception. EDIT: This one will run EVERYTHING without issue. 19,500 watts continuous and 22k start up.
That being said, when I was using it as my prime electrical source, it was costing me about $40/day in propane. Summer, A/C, building shit....you might get by with less money if you were more conservative but propane as you generator fuel is not the way to go for making all of your electricity, unless you have a real fat wallet. Diesel even less so and I can't imagine what gasoline would cost.
No matter which brand you decide on, you definitely need to decide what you want/need to run if your power company goes down and figure out just how much juice you need...THEN decide on the generator.
It's propane because propane can sit in the tank virtually forever and still be good to go. Not so with diesel or gasoline. It is rigged to charge my batteries in the case of several days of not much sun. So far, I've only used it in test mode, good to go. It has been flawless other than having to figure out to rig it to charge its own battery, what a shit show that was. I am very diligent with preventative maintenance on everything I own, this generator is no exception. EDIT: This one will run EVERYTHING without issue. 19,500 watts continuous and 22k start up.
That being said, when I was using it as my prime electrical source, it was costing me about $40/day in propane. Summer, A/C, building shit....you might get by with less money if you were more conservative but propane as you generator fuel is not the way to go for making all of your electricity, unless you have a real fat wallet. Diesel even less so and I can't imagine what gasoline would cost.
No matter which brand you decide on, you definitely need to decide what you want/need to run if your power company goes down and figure out just how much juice you need...THEN decide on the generator.
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I got a steal on it… $5k but took a risk on how much to recommission. And proved easy.
Also has only 4K hours. So is basically new.
Sirhr
That’s not house wrap it is insulating foam. And the slab is formed up for 6” with sloping edges for more than 7” at the form….
I might not be getting points for style…. But I’ve managed ti muddle my way through a few
Projects over the years.
Thanks for the input though.
Until you get algae in the diesel tank...
The bigger units I've worked on had fuel contracts to refresh the diesel every 6-12 months and have fuel on standby.
Propane is great, because the fuel never goes bad. Diesel is more BTUs per gallon, but it needs a strict schedule of being refreshed.
I have diesel and gas that I can run on my own house. The diesel is a pain in the ass.
Also if your running propane, you should look into gallons per hour to size your tank. My in-laws needed to upgrade their tank after the first multi-day power outage. They lost heat, and the stove when the generator ran the tank empty.
Drop a shed over it with some ducting and it’ll be protected from varmits, sun, weather and be quiet too.
Bio Kleen Diesel Fuel Biocide Treatment
This dual-phased biocide kills microbes in fuel, including bacteria and fungus. Use this to rid your diesel fuel system of microbial contamination.powerservice.com
Had a truck get an algae bloom in the tank. Tried about 25 gallons of that to no avail. Hand cleaning with gasoline, along with the lines and getting injectors cleaned was the only thing that finally stopped it.
All the additives were a temp fix for a week or two. Hundreds of $ in plugged filters.
I swear the only guys that love diesels are those that don't own one or don't pay to fix them.
The trick is to use additives AND to cycle the diesel through the tanks. Not just leave it set. So my farm tanks feed my tractor, Hmmwv and other diesel stuff.… and get emptied and filled about every 30 months…. Typically I wait until diesel takes a price dip, then top up tanks…
Generator will be no exception. It will get run regularly but the big tank will have a transfer pump and hose and keep getting used And refilled.
And it SHTF somehow, it will also keep
My truck running as I won’t care about red dye in a road vehicle… in an emergency.
But agree… diesel doesn’t sit like propane!
Sirhr
Yes, this is true. My tractor had that black slime in the tank and it would clog the pick-up screen in the tank. Even when used as a "shock treatment" it will not remove existing deposits. Had to manually clean out the tank/lines and THEN started using the bioclean. It will PREVENT the problem. It only takes a very small amount. Around here, this stuff is between 30 and 40 bucks for a 16 oz bottle. I'm figuring you used another one of their products if you went through 25 gallons.
Info from their website:
FOR USE IN HYDROCARBON PRESERVATIONTo control the growth of problem microorganisms associated with the fuel.
In General Use: Add Bio Kleen to storage tanks or fuel tanks for control of microbial growth in diesel oil, fuel oil, gasoline or kerosene. Treatment may be performed by slug dosage or by intermittent metering to maintain a concentration of 135-1,000 ppm of Bio Kleen.
| TREATMENT RATIOS (IN OUNCES) | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| BIO KLEEN BIOCIDE DOSE | SHOCK TREATMENT | PPM IN FUEL (APPROX) | MAINTENANCE TREATMENT | PPM IN FUEL (APPROX) |
| 1 Ounce | 20 Gallons | 390 | 55 Gallons | 142 |
| 16 Ounces | 320 Gallons | 390 | 880 Gallons | 142 |
| 128 Ounces (1 Gallon) | 2,500 Gallons | 400 | 7,000 Gallons | 142 |
Years ago during the "Sandy" storm, I had a big old portable gas generator that in the middle of the night stop running. Turned out the needle and seat in the carb got stuck open from some dirt and flooded the engine, the oil thinned out so much it soaked the air filter and that choked it off. A few months later I bought a Generac LP5500 LP only portable (a model they no longer make since they went to dual-fuel models). That one came in handy when we lost power from a snowstorm a few years later. On a moderate load a 20 lb tank runs about 8 hours, with intermitant use I can stretch that out to 12. I have a half dozen tanks for the gennie and the gas grill. I can survive a few days and keep the cold stuff cold, and getting more gas is usually as easy as the local tank exchange. If power is out more than 2 or 3 days, that would be a rare scenario. I'm not spending 10k on something I may need once in my lifetime. If my wife needs a/c that badly, I'll ship her off to a hotel someplace they have power LOL
I had an algae problem in a bobcat skid steer, powerclean and biokleen didn’t do anything for me. A combination of Biobor and Bellicide solved my problem in one tankful (3 filters though). Bellicide seems like the real deal for algae.
Makes more sense if you have a bulk tank for other purposes.
The average homeowner that thinks they can let diesel sit in a tank for 10 years just doesn't know any better.
If your truck is too new it may get upset and go into limp mode on red fuel. The odd thing is I found red diesel goes clear if it sits in a clear container in the sun...
Not 25 gallons of that specifically. Tried every brand and product I could find.
And I'm filling up 2-3x a week at truck stops. So no farm tank or transfer tanks with old fuel or sludge.
I’ve been around small and large diesels for years, never had an algae issue. All my tanks are treated with grey bottle power services and rotated.
We have had our Generac 14kw for about 10 years now. Zero complaints, it runs on natural gas and propane. The power goes out here quite often and it has not failed us. It runs the entire house however I do have to turn off all the pool equipment or it will overload
I went years before and after. It's one of those things that you'd never worry about until it's happened to you.
It wasn't until I was installing a megawatt Cummins that held 2500 gallons that I talked to the fuel supplier. They only filled it to 1000 (12 hours run time) because they were under contract to fill it all the way within 6 hours of startup.
They showed up every 6 months to evacuate the tank and refresh the fuel, along with the monthly fills to replace what the weekly tests burned.
After this I started asking on every large (100kw+) genset and found that it was standard around here. Every last supplier told me the same story. Diesel doesn't last nearly as long as people think unless conditions are perfect.
Likely our weather doesn't help, as 120°+ swings over the course of the year makes for some prime conditions to have condensation buildup.
Still not sure... I have found references 7 GPH at full 100 percent output.... Though that's not a CAT spec. Also saw that running at a more realistic home/barn load it's way less. I honestly don't know yet! Most of our power outages are a few hours. Worst I ever saw was a couple of days.
Testing consumption will be one of my first tasks! With this new gen tank, I'll have 700 +gals diesel on the farm at any one time. So should be ok except when the entire world comes to an end. Then I guess I'll have to severely curtail use!
Sirhr
Remember the diesel additives when it starts getting cold. Most suppliers take care of that for the customers that have turnover. But you can get in trouble when you fill your tanks in September and it sits until it's needed in January.
Once we filled two job tanks in October. The owner found a design error and we were held up into December. When we tried to start up we had 60,000 gallons of jello. Every piece of yellow iron was full of nontreated fuel. Luckily day temps were still in the 40's so we fought our way out of it.
I never made that mistake again.
Thank you,
MrSmith
Once we filled two job tanks in October. The owner found a design error and we were held up into December. When we tried to start up we had 60,000 gallons of jello. Every piece of yellow iron was full of nontreated fuel. Luckily day temps were still in the 40's so we fought our way out of it.
I never made that mistake again.
Thank you,
MrSmith
We were just out of power for 4 days from hurricane Beryl. About 8 people on the street with whole home generators ran the whole time. Don't know the run time before the hurricane hit. No one bothered to check the oil levels vs run time, etc. Most were low on oil and should have been serviced (oil/filter) after about day 2-3. There was not a single "generator service truck" in the neighborhood the whole time and most are remotely monitored. I don't remember seeing a service truck even days after.
In my opinion, those units are disposable. Without constant maintenance, they will run to failure.
Most of the cheaper whole home generators are 3600RPM units. After about 2-3 days of constant use you better start checking the oil levels. Parts are hard to get and if you have an issue after a hurricane or event, you are pretty well screwed. Friend in LA had his unit smoke a board after a hurricane and a replacement could not be found. He couldn't even find spare filters! He had a "service contract", yea right. So much for a $15K investment to keep the AC running. Oh, and the natural gas bill will be a shock after a week or so of running.
If you can afford one, find a 1800 RPM unit. Still requires maintenance but not "as" much as the high speed units. Better yet, if you can find a diesel unit (1800rpm), BUY IT!!
In my opinion, those units are disposable. Without constant maintenance, they will run to failure.
Most of the cheaper whole home generators are 3600RPM units. After about 2-3 days of constant use you better start checking the oil levels. Parts are hard to get and if you have an issue after a hurricane or event, you are pretty well screwed. Friend in LA had his unit smoke a board after a hurricane and a replacement could not be found. He couldn't even find spare filters! He had a "service contract", yea right. So much for a $15K investment to keep the AC running. Oh, and the natural gas bill will be a shock after a week or so of running.
If you can afford one, find a 1800 RPM unit. Still requires maintenance but not "as" much as the high speed units. Better yet, if you can find a diesel unit (1800rpm), BUY IT!!
I feel like I now have e a phd in generator research. We went 9 days without power from Helene.
I’m only buying a portable unit, but want at least duel fuel for options. I’m at the ? Of - how important is low THD? And if I go with a regular genny does an AVG actually work or is just best to buy an inverter and be done with it?
I’m only buying a portable unit, but want at least duel fuel for options. I’m at the ? Of - how important is low THD? And if I go with a regular genny does an AVG actually work or is just best to buy an inverter and be done with it?
An inverter will be worth the costs on sound alone. Clean power will be next if you are trying to use a pc, tv, etc.
Look around on CL and marketplace. I paid $2500 for my Yamaha 6300, it had 80ish hours on it at the time.
Look around on CL and marketplace. I paid $2500 for my Yamaha 6300, it had 80ish hours on it at the time.
The install continues… Home Depot idiots screwed up the shed kit so bad I just banged out my own stick-built framing on Saturday and erected the walls Sunday morning. %*€¥ Home Depot.
I’ll do roof trusses and get them up this weekend maybe even roof and some wall sheathing.
Trying to get it all connected before winter! If not… in the spring!
PS. Other than help carrying the walls from my garage to the slab… this was working alone… and started wtlh trip to lumber yard at 0700 Saturday. After telling Home Depot cancel my order and refund my (damaged) shed kit Friday at 4. Old guys get stuff done!!!
I’ll do roof trusses and get them up this weekend maybe even roof and some wall sheathing.
Trying to get it all connected before winter! If not… in the spring!
PS. Other than help carrying the walls from my garage to the slab… this was working alone… and started wtlh trip to lumber yard at 0700 Saturday. After telling Home Depot cancel my order and refund my (damaged) shed kit Friday at 4. Old guys get stuff done!!!
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Generators are inefficient with fuel unless your loads constantly consume all the energy from the fuel being burned.
Better to have 48V battery storage to capture all the energy from the fuel being burned by a generator. Then inverters to convert that DC power back into AC that your house can use on demand. There are some losses converting DC to AC, AC to DC, then back from DC to AC again. But nothing near what is wasted keeping a generator running 24/7.
For 1-3 days running a generator is workable. But for extended outages you might get tired of filling the tank (if you even can) to then have a large portion of that energy potential be wasted.
Better to have 48V battery storage to capture all the energy from the fuel being burned by a generator. Then inverters to convert that DC power back into AC that your house can use on demand. There are some losses converting DC to AC, AC to DC, then back from DC to AC again. But nothing near what is wasted keeping a generator running 24/7.
For 1-3 days running a generator is workable. But for extended outages you might get tired of filling the tank (if you even can) to then have a large portion of that energy potential be wasted.
What are your plans for the cooling intake and exhaust air?
You will want the radiator exhaust air to be ducted so that 100% of the air that passes through the radiator gets pushed out, while it sucks in clean fresh air
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This is the way I am rigged up using 100% solar power.
The generator is for in case something happens to the panel array or in case we have about 48 hours of near zero solar insolation...which is not unheard of during a long storm. Genset is rigged to charge the 12 EG4 LiFePo 100 Ah 48v batteries. It calculates to take about 4 hours to charge the batteries using the genset and then run off the batteries for another 48 hours. That is the most efficient use of a generator for power.
If you want a simple, whole-house, fully automated solution to run everything without you knowing the power went out, get a 20-30kW Generac propane and at least a 250-gallon tank. That’s assuming you just want to be able to ride-out the occasional storm and temporary power outages for a maximum of a week or so.
If you want to be able to survive in those situations but also be covered for SHTFTEOTWAWKI, you’ll want a serious overkill (at least 30kW) diesel with 500+ gallon diesel tank and service parts (filters, fluids, etc) to keep it running for 5,000 hours on your own. Then come up with a written, detailed usage plan to prolong your fuel supply as much as possible.
In the second scenario, I’d recommend a hefty battery bank where the only thing the generator is used for is keeping the batteries charged. This is a far more efficient use of fuel as 100% of the power generated gets stored (OK, not literally “100%”, but you get the idea) and you have continuous power available while fuel is not being consumed, dramatically extending your fuel supply. Batteries will also allow you to add solar panels, wind turbines, etc to augment generation. There are ways to do it on the cheap without having to buy ridonkulously expensive LiFePo4 or Tesla batteries, but if you have cash to burn, by all means pay someone $100K to put fancy Duracells in your home.
If you want to be able to survive in those situations but also be covered for SHTFTEOTWAWKI, you’ll want a serious overkill (at least 30kW) diesel with 500+ gallon diesel tank and service parts (filters, fluids, etc) to keep it running for 5,000 hours on your own. Then come up with a written, detailed usage plan to prolong your fuel supply as much as possible.
In the second scenario, I’d recommend a hefty battery bank where the only thing the generator is used for is keeping the batteries charged. This is a far more efficient use of fuel as 100% of the power generated gets stored (OK, not literally “100%”, but you get the idea) and you have continuous power available while fuel is not being consumed, dramatically extending your fuel supply. Batteries will also allow you to add solar panels, wind turbines, etc to augment generation. There are ways to do it on the cheap without having to buy ridonkulously expensive LiFePo4 or Tesla batteries, but if you have cash to burn, by all means pay someone $100K to put fancy Duracells in your home.
