pewpew300WM

Sergeant of the Hide
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Dec 31, 2019
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West Central PA
So after many years, I finally paired my radian adac lower with a geissele 14.5 upper. Now I’m researching optics and mounts, mainly red dot/holos as I’m not too into lvpo or acogs. I want to have a useful home defense optic but be able to hit the range to run and gun and potentially run NV down the road. So I’m to the point it’s a buy once cry once deal. I’ve looked into the trijicon mro hd, holosun 503/515/530 and aems, multiple aimpoints, eotech and a few sig optics. As for mounts it seems like most run the scalarworks or unity mounts. Can anyone make other recommendations on some I’ve missed, add some photos of their similar setups or give me so opinions to narrow down my lists.
 

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On one of my AR's, I have a Vortex StrikeFire II with green dot and a 3x quick-flip multiplier. On another, I have a Sig Romeo4XT + Sig Juliet3 3x quick-flip multiplier. On my 300BLK SBR, I have an Athlon 1-10x24 LPVO.

Building an 8.6BLK SBR and have not yet determined what I will do for an optic...

Sig just announced a new version of the Red Dot, the Romeo5 Gen II and Juliet3 Micro Combo...
 
I love the Eotech stuff for NV use because of how clear the holographic stuff is for passive, but battery life sucks.

I run Aimpoint micros on my 10.5" and MCX. I still find a dot is more intuitive than 1x on an LPVO.

However, if I had to pick one rifle it would be my 16" with an NX8 1-8 and RMR on top. Best of both worlds, the ability to shoot passive with NODs, and a long enough barrel to get out to 300-700yds.

I'd still grab the 10.5 with the RC2 and the dot and have both.
 
If you're comfortable with hitting that extra button in the dark, I'm a big fan of the EOTech. I've also logged so many hours in the field with a similar reticle in my thermal shooting hogs and 'yotes that the EOTech is truly second nature to me at this point.

Battery life does comparatively suck...so if you're a 'turn on and forget it for a couple years guy', Id probably look at something from Aimpoint.
 
So after many years, I finally paired my radian adac lower with a geissele 14.5 upper. Now I’m researching optics and mounts, mainly red dot/holos as I’m not too into lvpo or acogs. I want to have a useful home defense optic but be able to hit the range to run and gun and potentially run NV down the road. So I’m to the point it’s a buy once cry once deal. I’ve looked into the trijicon mro hd, holosun 503/515/530 and aems, multiple aimpoints, eotech and a few sig optics. As for mounts it seems like most run the scalarworks or unity mounts. Can anyone make other recommendations on some I’ve missed, add some photos of their similar setups or give me so opinions to narrow down my lists.

I've bought and cried several times recently.

T2 still the best for ruggedness, and battery life. On one rifle I have it in a Unity Fast mount. Cool to have your back up rear iron built into the mount. Makes it easy to put the Unity magnifier mount (excellent) behind it. I went with the cheaper chicken Aimpoint 3X-P magnifiers. Not enough difference in optical quality to opt for the 3X-Mag1 at like $900. I can't justify it. I just don't run a magnifier enough.

I love the Aimpoints, even if the price has become so ridiculous that it seems kinda like extortion at this point. They have battery lives measured in years and great dots with no parallax to speak of. Of course they last a loooong time too. I still have two T1s with 4 MOA dots that I bought before they had 2 MOA dots.

On another rifle I have an EOTech EXPS w/NV on a Unity riser and with a Unity EOTech magnifier 5X. Many moons (Years and Years) ago I had an EOTech that that failed on me. I sent it in and they fixed it, but I never trusted it after that. The battery life sucked too. Then EOTech had a recall and BOUGHT my EOTech back from me. YAY. But over the years EOTech has made huge improvements in quality and features. They also greatly increased battery life. Plus they have useful warnings of low battery life and I believe mine have auto off features which I have not tried. The view is awesome and of course the reticle is amazing. I've re-discovered EOTech for certain applications.

So, the 5X Magnifier is over kill, but cool. I would say, unless you have a demonstrated need for 5X the 3X is fine, especially if you are using it on a short rifle. The 5X has a much less forgiving eye box. One thing I hate are the centering knobs on the EOTech magnifiers... Jeez they are awful. When manipulating the magnifier in the riser, they get turned, which puts your dot off center and if you are picky like me it really throws you off.

One hundred concepts (onehundredconcepts.com) makes a solution for this, at a price. I haven't done it yet, but probably will.

One common thing here is tall optics mounts. The Unity mounts are not necessary unless you find them useful for night vision passive aiming. I'm barely into NV, but if you are or will be passive aiming using your optic it might be worth looking into.

The other advantage of the tall optics are that you can use a more upright stance when walking with the optic reticle in view. This aides somewhat in situational awareness.

The only IR laser/illumination I could afford was the DBAL D2 which is a brick on the end of your rifle, seriously. If you can passive aim all you need is an illuminator without the laser and a GOOD optic with good NV settings. And the EoTech is currently the best. The Aimpoint is also good, but substantially less good than the EOTech. IMHO There might be other good ones but ?

I'm still new to NV so take what I say with a modicome of salt grains. Also, note that I'm older than most by a good margin so I need SPECIAL help.

I also have a T2 in a 1.93" Scalarworks mount. An I really like this height mount. Scalarworks makes a magnifier mount too, but I've not looked into it.

NEW! Scalarworks also makes some really cool BUIS. Really check them out. I picked up a set of 1.93" BUIS. They make standard height too. I've yet to install them but they are really compact and light weight and pricey unfortunately.

These are the best iterations of red dots and magnifiers I currently have. Unlike many folks I also like LPVOs. The most all around useful of these (for a reasonable cost) is the Trijicon Credo 1-6 second focal plane with BDC reticle. Its a simple reticle with good glass and its LIGHT. And I like doing business with Trijicon, I have had excellent interactions with their customer service deptartment.

I like 1-6x LPVOs. I like the second focal plane BDC reticle for its simplicity. If I need a no nonsense getter-done magnified optic, this configuration fits the bill. Most folks whine that the reticle isn't daylight bright... Who cares when you have an etched reticle? This is a magnified optic not a red dot. And the illumination is perfect when aiming into darker places or dawn/ dusk shooting. If I must have red dot speed, I'll just strap on a small red dot. So far I don't need it. If you are shooting competition maybe this isn't for you, but for a guy on a ranch and such this is a good optic. Would make a good optic on a trunk gun.

I also like my NF 1-8 ATACR (I don't turn the illumination on much except at low magnifiaction when te reticle is very small) , but I find myself using the rifle with the light weight LPVO much more often. I'm not sure the use case is there for an optic this expensive.

That is my quick and dirty take on current optics options.

PS. I like the old MROs (not the HDs, haven't tried them, but I would consider the Aimpoint Duty first.
 
I've bought and cried several times recently.

T2 still the best for ruggedness, and battery life. On one rifle I have it in a Unity Fast mount. Cool to have your back up rear iron built into the mount. Makes it easy to put the Unity magnifier mount (excellent) behind it. I went with the cheaper chicken Aimpoint 3X-P magnifiers. Not enough difference in optical quality to opt for the 3X-Mag1 at like $900. I can't justify it. I just don't run a magnifier enough.

I love the Aimpoints, even if the price has become so ridiculous that it seems kinda like extortion at this point. They have battery lives measured in years and great dots with no parallax to speak of. Of course they last a loooong time too. I still have two T1s with 4 MOA dots that I bought before they had 2 MOA dots.

On another rifle I have an EOTech EXPS w/NV on a Unity riser and with a Unity EOTech magnifier 5X. Many moons (Years and Years) ago I had an EOTech that that failed on me. I sent it in and they fixed it, but I never trusted it after that. The battery life sucked too. Then EOTech had a recall and BOUGHT my EOTech back from me. YAY. But over the years EOTech has made huge improvements in quality and features. They also greatly increased battery life. Plus they have useful warnings of low battery life and I believe mine have auto off features which I have not tried. The view is awesome and of course the reticle is amazing. I've re-discovered EOTech for certain applications.

So, the 5X Magnifier is over kill, but cool. I would say, unless you have a demonstrated need for 5X the 3X is fine, especially if you are using it on a short rifle. The 5X has a much less forgiving eye box. One thing I hate are the centering knobs on the EOTech magnifiers... Jeez they are awful. When manipulating the magnifier in the riser, they get turned, which puts your dot off center and if you are picky like me it really throws you off.

One hundred concepts (onehundredconcepts.com) makes a solution for this, at a price. I haven't done it yet, but probably will.

One common thing here is tall optics mounts. The Unity mounts are not necessary unless you find them useful for night vision passive aiming. I'm barely into NV, but if you are or will be passive aiming using your optic it might be worth looking into.

The other advantage of the tall optics are that you can use a more upright stance when walking with the optic reticle in view. This aides somewhat in situational awareness.

The only IR laser/illumination I could afford was the DBAL D2 which is a brick on the end of your rifle, seriously. If you can passive aim all you need is an illuminator without the laser and a GOOD optic with good NV settings. And the EoTech is currently the best. The Aimpoint is also good, but substantially less good than the EOTech. IMHO There might be other good ones but ?

I'm still new to NV so take what I say with a modicome of salt grains. Also, note that I'm older than most by a good margin so I need SPECIAL help.

I also have a T2 in a 1.93" Scalarworks mount. An I really like this height mount. Scalarworks makes a magnifier mount too, but I've not looked into it.

NEW! Scalarworks also makes some really cool BUIS. Really check them out. I picked up a set of 1.93" BUIS. They make standard height too. I've yet to install them but they are really compact and light weight and pricey unfortunately.

These are the best iterations of red dots and magnifiers I currently have. Unlike many folks I also like LPVOs. The most all around useful of these (for a reasonable cost) is the Trijicon Credo 1-6 second focal plane with BDC reticle. Its a simple reticle with good glass and its LIGHT. And I like doing business with Trijicon, I have had excellent interactions with their customer service deptartment.

I like 1-6x LPVOs. I like the second focal plane BDC reticle for its simplicity. If I need a no nonsense getter-done magnified optic, this configuration fits the bill. Most folks whine that the reticle isn't daylight bright... Who cares when you have an etched reticle? This is a magnified optic not a red dot. And the illumination is perfect when aiming into darker places or dawn/ dusk shooting. If I must have red dot speed, I'll just strap on a small red dot. So far I don't need it. If you are shooting competition maybe this isn't for you, but for a guy on a ranch and such this is a good optic. Would make a good optic on a trunk gun.

I also like my NF 1-8 ATACR (I don't turn the illumination on much except at low magnifiaction when te reticle is very small) , but I find myself using the rifle with the light weight LPVO much more often. I'm not sure the use case is there for an optic this expensive.

That is my quick and dirty take on current optics options.

PS. I like the old MROs (not the HDs, haven't tried them, but I would consider the Aimpoint Duty first.
Yeah, I have been narrowing down my list and got to the T2, eotech and sig 4tpro. I dream of running nv one day but who knows if it’ll happen. I built a long range gun, spent crazy amounts of cash and topped it with a zco all to shoot maybe 20 rounds. A few buddies actually recommended checking the lpvo route as they said it’s comparable to running a red dot/holo once you get use to it. Then I started pricing out lvpo setups and compare it to the t2 with a magnifier and don’t know which way to roll. As for mounts I like the unity idea with built ins but I like my optics lower so I’m unsure how I’d like it in the end.
 
Yeah, I have been narrowing down my list and got to the T2, eotech and sig 4tpro. I dream of running nv one day but who knows if it’ll happen. I built a long range gun, spent crazy amounts of cash and topped it with a zco all to shoot maybe 20 rounds. A few buddies actually recommended checking the lpvo route as they said it’s comparable to running a red dot/holo once you get use to it. Then I started pricing out lvpo setups and compare it to the t2 with a magnifier and don’t know which way to roll. As for mounts I like the unity idea with built ins but I like my optics lower so I’m unsure how I’d like it in the end.
If you plan to get into NV anytime soon, you will want to go with something like an Eotech EXPS or a RD like the T2. This with a Unity mount or other that elevates the optic so that you can do more heads-up shooting.
 
If you plan to get into NV anytime soon, you will want to go with something like an Eotech EXPS or a RD like the T2. This with a Unity mount or other that elevates the optic so that you can do more heads-up shooting.
I have watched tons and tons of videos on each and the only downfall with the eotech is the battery life. The way it’s looking I’ll be snagging up a t2 with a unity mount. As far as the nv, that’s all new to me I need to do a lot of research on what’s what.
 
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If you plan to get into NV anytime soon, you will want to go with something like an Eotech EXPS or a RD like the T2. This with a Unity mount or other that elevates the optic so that you can do more heads-up shooting.
I went back and checked some pricing and I can snag the eotech with a magnifier for about the same cost at the t2 and unity mount. Not sure how much I’d use a magnifier but it being there as an option wouldn’t be bad. Definitely also like that new reticle eotech released. Might have to wait it out and see when they come available on a dealer side.
 
Another possibility is a 1x red dot (eg Aimpoint T2) with an offset 3x prism (eg Vortex Spitfire HD Gen II 3x) rather than a magnifier. For me, this setup works really well when shooting <250 yards—much faster and lighter than an LPVO (even with an offset 1x red dot) or a 1x red dot with a 3x magnifier that you must manually flip on or off each time.

You will need to set the prism as far back on the rail as you can, as the eye relief is much shorter than the 1x red dot.

For self- or home-defense or competition rifles, the 1x RD/3x prism combo may be the better option. OTOH, if your rifle's primary use is SPR-ish, shooting/hunting from beyond 200-300 yards, the LPVO with a 1x offset will work better.

Also check out Badger Ordnance's Condition One red dot mounts. Cheaper than Unity and just as good.
 
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LPVO for when you don't know what you're going to need but need close range/HD covered.
Aimpoint w/ irons for when you don't know when shit will happen...and you wanna keep it simple.
Eotech for when you DO know when things are going to happen....and you think you may want a magnifier.
Variable optic w/ offset red dot if you are one of these "CQB to 1000y, HD and competition all in one" types.

Simple as I can make it.
 
I haven’t looked through a lpvo to see but I’m unsure how it would be for me. I’m to the point I’m thinking I nice 300blk out or a 8.6 sbr may be a better home defense setup. Then just build this 14.5 for a nice run and gun setup and some occasional nv.
On one of my AR's, I have a Vortex StrikeFire II with green dot and a 3x quick-flip multiplier. On another, I have an Sig Romeo4XT + Sig Juliet3 3x quick-flip multiplier. On my 300BLK SBR, I have an Athlon 1-10x24 LPVO.

Building an 8.6BLK SBR and have not yet determined what I will do for an optic...

Sig just announced a new version of the Red Dot, the Romeo5 Gen II and Juliet3 Micro Combo...
 
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My 300 BLK SBR rocks! 10.5" barrel, OCL Hydrogen L 7.62 suppressor. 200gr S&B subsonics or 220gr Fiocchi RangeDynamics subsonics work awesome for my SBR. :giggle:


Pic is from before I put my Athlon 1-10x24 LPVO on...
So real world comparison, do you feel you could engage quicker, say 50 yards or less with the lvpo or the red dot/magnifier setup?
 
Aimpoint T2 if you have the budget, or, a Holosun HS403R (T2 knockoff) if you don't.

IMHO the EOTech EXPS3-1 would be the best optic on the planet if the battery life didn't suck so bad (I loathe the "donut of death" and vastly prefer a single dot), but it does, and it might be dead when you need it.

(No need for a magnifier/LPVO unless your house has rooms that might require shots past ~200 yards lol.)
 
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I just seen eotech has the dcr and it looks pretty sweet but the battery life is a downfall for sure. I’ve got a long range setup with a zco and I’ve got a tendency to forget to shut the illumination off. So that could or would be a potential issue however the Aimpoint is able to left on for years from the reviews I’ve watched. I definitely think the eotech fov would be a plus when running nv but I need to get somewhere that has both available and see which I like.
Aimpoint T2 if you have the budget, or, a Holosun HS403R (T2 knockoff) if you don't.

IMHO the EOTech EXPS3-1 would be the best optic on the planet if the battery life didn't suck so bad (I loathe the "donut of death" and vastly prefer a single dot), but it does, and it might be dead when you need it.

(No need for a magnifier/LPVO unless your house has rooms that might require shots past ~200 yards lol.)
 
There's no FOV with red dots... you either have both eyes open, or you're using them wrong.

Things like "window size" and "wide FOV" are how marketing teams sell red dots to people who don't know how to use red dots.
 
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There's no FOV with red dots... you either have both eyes open, or you're using them wrong.

Things like "window size" and "wide FOV" are how marketing teams sell red dots to people who don't know how to use red dots.
I’m referring to the Aimpoint circle compared to the eotech rectangular window design. I should of worded that prior comment a bit differently
 
So real world comparison, do you feel you could engage quicker, say 50 yards or less with the lvpo or the red dot/magnifier setup?
Right now, I would say it is a tie...but I have not had as much time shooting with the LPVO as I have with the RDS + magnifier. I'll be going to the range (designated shooting area [open and more flexibility]) in the next week or so. I'll reply to the thread after I do so.
 
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Hard to come up with a HD situation in a sub/urban environment that takes advantage of the advantages of a magnified optic.

I “get” the economy of a do it all rifle. But, I think a HD rifle should be built for task, without compromise to other tasks.

If “range day” consists of relatively close range drills, build/buy a HD/range guns. But, if you want to “stretch your/it’s legs,” build/buy a range gun.
 
I’ve done side by side comparison between Aimpoint and a Razor 1-6x from low ready to A-zone at the yards.

With either optic, I’m in the 0.46-0.48 time average over twenty runs. That’s about a perfect storm for the red dot to be exploited.

However, the advantages for the Razor are much more lob-sided, especially when it ext new beyond 100 yards.
 
I’ve done side by side comparison between Aimpoint and a Razor 1-6x from low ready to A-zone at the yards.

With either optic, I’m in the 0.46-0.48 time average over twenty runs. That’s about a perfect storm for the red dot to be exploited.

However, the advantages for the Razor are much more lob-sided, especially when it ext new beyond 100 yards.
I had a buddy say the same thing. He now runs a razor 1-6 instead of a red dot. There was few YouTube videos with the same outcome and it was shocking
 
So after many years, I finally paired my radian adac lower with a geissele 14.5 upper. Now I’m researching optics and mounts, mainly red dot/holos as I’m not too into lvpo or acogs. I want to have a useful home defense optic but be able to hit the range to run and gun and potentially run NV down the road. So I’m to the point it’s a buy once cry once deal. I’ve looked into the trijicon mro hd, holosun 503/515/530 and aems, multiple aimpoints, eotech and a few sig optics. As for mounts it seems like most run the scalarworks or unity mounts. Can anyone make other recommendations on some I’ve missed, add some photos of their similar setups or give me so opinions to narrow down my lists.

Just buy an Aimpoint Micro T-2 or CompM5 and be done with it. You are overthinking the fuck out of a very simple decision.
 
I had a buddy say the same thing. He now runs a razor 1-6 instead of a red dot. There was few YouTube videos with the same outcome and it was shocking

I came to the same conclusion after actually trying both an RDS and an LPVO on a carbine. A good LPVO with the occular focus adjusted correctly, gives up nothing to a red dot up close with significant advantages elsewhere.
 
Hard to come up with a HD situation in a sub/urban environment that takes advantage of the advantages of a magnified optic.
The view down the street from my front door covers 160 yards to the next house directly downrange, measured with a Leica rangefinder.

In any event you would have a point if said magnified optic didn't have a 1X setting that is just as fast as a reflex sight.

I think a HD rifle should be built for task, without compromise to other tasks.
Why? What is so magical and unique about a home defense rifle?
 

Admittedly I have never been in a gun fight with another person. In the last month, however, I have had to deal with emergencies that required killing animals attacking livestock. It is roughly 300 yards from my office window to the end of my closest pasture. I have like 30+ guns to choose from and a LPVO still isn't a priority to me despite having several. When you reduce that to threats inside 10 yards, a LPVO only offers downsides compared to a run of the mill red dot.

One of the nice things about a free market is you have the choice to choose what you think is best. If you like LPVOs then by all means buy one. My experience killing living things, at the distances most people consider optimal for a LPVO, is a red dot is more than adequate. A 3X magnifier is plenty of magnification for target ID at 300+ yards, and even then the magnifier is in the corner collecting dust.
 
Love all the folks on their high horse who didn't read the OP that think it's an HD-only niche gun.




Title says HD and "Range".

OP notes:
"I want to have a useful home defense optic but be able to hit the range to run and gun and potentially run NV down the road....
it’s a buy once cry once deal."
 
Love all the folks on their high horse who didn't read the OP that think it's an HD-only niche gun.




Title says HD and "Range".

OP notes:
"I want to have a useful home defense optic but be able to hit the range to run and gun and potentially run NV down the road....
it’s a buy once cry once deal."
Par for the course for this place
 
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Admittedly I have never been in a gun fight with another person. In the last month, however, I have had to deal with emergencies that required killing animals attacking livestock. It is roughly 300 yards from my office window to the end of my closest pasture. I have like 30+ guns to choose from and a LPVO still isn't a priority to me despite having several. When you reduce that to threats inside 10 yards, a LPVO only offers downsides compared to a run of the mill red dot.

One of the nice things about a free market is you have the choice to choose what you think is best. If you like LPVOs then by all means buy one. My experience killing living things, at the distances most people consider optimal for a LPVO, is a red dot is more than adequate. A 3X magnifier is plenty of magnification for target ID at 300+ yards, and even then the magnifier is in the corner collecting dust.
Cool you're not the only one here who has killed "living things" with a rifle