Rotating shift work - Good, bad, & ugly

Smitty192 · Sep 17, 2024

Looks like I may an opportunity for a career pivot and a sizable income increase. But it will require working a rotating shift work schedule. It's been a long time since I've worked any night shifts I'm sure there are better tips and tricks since I did it last. At least I'm older and all of the kids are out of the house.

I'd be working 7 night shifts & 7 day shifts per month (3 night / 3 day / 4 night / 4 day) with 3 or 4 days off, respectfully between shifts. As challenging as it may be, the pay will be enough to allow my wife to retire early.

So...what tips and/or tricks do you have to navigate and tame this mystical beast?
Getting sleep going from nights to days and vice versa
Eating windows during night shifts
Prefered stimulants (besides coke & meth)
Supplements for sleep / daily use
Work out timing

Anything else you can think of. Even weird shit.

Thanks for your help.

Milf Dots · Sep 17, 2024

Let your wife keep working- shift work decreases the life span by years. If you're still working, so should she.

MK20 · Sep 17, 2024

Yeah. Not worth it with that schedule. At all.

If you HAVE TO, Natrol 10mg time release melatonin is pretty good.

But that schedule is beyond retarded. Don't take the job.

lonegunman762x51 · Sep 17, 2024

I did it for 30 years, then retired early. I'd bitch but I easily made double what most families with two working parents made. Some years I made more than the governor.

If you can do it without stroking out, get your cheddar and plan your exit. I stayed 11 months longer than planned because we were short handed.

My favorite schedule was 7 days on, 7 days off, 7 nights on, 7 days off. It's actually an awesome schedule. Wednesday to Tuesday so two or three work shifts most folks are gone and it's peaceful.

MK20 · Sep 17, 2024

But were you switching your schedule by 12 hours every 3 days like OPs proposed schedule?

Sniperwannabee · Sep 17, 2024

That schedule is horrendous for your health

MK20 · Sep 17, 2024

I work shift work but it switches every 2 to 3 months. That is way different than every 3 days.

wade2big · Sep 17, 2024

Looks like the Dupont schedule. 100’s of thousands if not more plant workers work this schedule. Most retire from these jobs. Take the job if you believe it will better your situation. You’ll adjust.

Don’t listen to those that aren’t willing to do what’s necessary to make the money. They usually go nowhere themselves.

gigamortis · Sep 17, 2024

The quickly rotating shift schedules are designed to discourage older workers from working at such places.

diggler1833 · Sep 17, 2024

I did three years of [6] 12-hr days on, 3.5 off, [6] 12-hr nights on...over and over. Even then though when things were "normal" that 3.5 off was more like 2. You beat yourself to stay awake the first half day following the shift to reset your circadian rhythm, and then you're forcing yourself into the new rhythm early before the next shift set.

Except when we went to 60% staffed...then it was six months of [4] days on, 1.5 off, [4] nights on

. I tried to just stay on for nights, but the powers that be weren't having it.

No way am I ever doing that again. I had to pound energy drinks starting the shift, and pop muscle-relaxers as soon as I got home. Your mood is always affected, personal relationships affected, sex life affected...etc...

OP: Don't let the wife retire early just yet. Either it is going to drive you apart, or you're going to take years off your life in the process. I wouldn't even do a 7:7 and then switch.

LuckyDuck · Sep 17, 2024

I don't know your situation, your age, or the numbers you're looking at. I don't have any helpful tips for getting through the grind either unfortunately. Just wanted to pop in and say if you take this job, and it sounds like you intend to, just know that it will wreck all kinds of havoc on your circadian rhythm which even for a young pup in their early 20's is going to impact physical and mental health given the schedule you outlined. And that impact will only grow with time.

I'm guessing you're a little bit longer in the tooth than an early 20 something since you mentioned having children out of the house and if that's a fair assumption, I'd plan on the impact to your overall wellbeing being ever that much more amplified. Just something to consider.

I'm not a spring chicken myself but it'd have to be an incredible increase in salary for me to consider going back to that kind of a work schedule (voluntarily at least). Another angle I could see (for me at least) is if I had a solid grasp of my financials and goals and looked at it as a "sprint" of sorts with a clearly outlined exit plan once those goals were met after 2 years or so... Ok I could bear the grief for a short amount of time if it got me towards an end goal such as retirement a few years faster.

Wish you the best of luck regardless, please let us know what you decide/how you make out.

-LD

mosin46 · Sep 17, 2024

did a 7 on 7 off on both nights (11-7) and days (7-3) every other week end on was 12hr. no switching hours. i personally would never do that and really preferred nights. it is well doced to shorten life. might try it but if it is a damage inducer,can you go somewhere else for decent $s? trick for nights is make that your "normal" schedule. don't try and do normal days and work nights doesn't work at all. no clue about how to do a swing rotation. gotta suck.

Kamerad · Sep 17, 2024

7 years of ‘4 on 4 off’. 12 hr shifts, 2 days, 24hr off, 2 nights. Blackout curtains, get to sleep asap after night shifts. Be careful of long commutes after nights. Be realistic about scheduling commitments on days coming off a night shift. We call ‘em dumb days. Mental fog, etc.

Regular Exercise is particularly helpful on these schedules, as people tend to put on weight due to erratic Circadian rhythms. I eat before 8pm on night shifts.

Avoid energy drinks, or they’ll become a crutch. Keep any supplements clean and high quality.

Good luck.

sam1700 · Sep 17, 2024

I’ve been working shift work for the last 6 or so years. The greatest thing I did early on was to purchase black out curtains for the bedroom. Having a pitch dark room to sleep in during the day greatly increased my hrs sleep. Our shifts are 1 week of days, followed by a week of nights. Monday through Saturday for the day shift and Monday through Friday for the night shift. The change from nights back to days is by far the hardest part for me. I still haven’t found a great way to navigate it….it just sucks.

Edited to echo Kamerad

….stay away from energy drinks and like he said, go to sleep as quickly as possible after the night shift.

louu · Sep 17, 2024

I'm a shift worker and I hate it, probably just because I hate my job. I also hate most people so I guess that doesn't help. Don't get me wrong you guys are cool because we have shit in common. I just hate all the fuckin mouth breathers that think football, zyn and beer is the only reason to live.

I love working out but you can forget having motivation to ever get meaningful work out in ever again. I've been working this shift work for about 3 years now.

For the day shift don't eat anything past 7pm. Bring dinner to work and eat there. For night shift eat something between 5am and 7am at work, go home go to bed. Wake up and eat dinner and that's it. A few snacks to get through the night. Keep track of your water intake, it's easy to get dehydrated. No matter what you do your gona gain weigh but this is what I finally figured out to at least not gain any extra. I'm 44yo 6' 225-230#.

Its hard not to get mad at shit all the time because night shifts feel like you can't do anything but work and be tired.

The last day of night shift I try to wake up by noon so that day doesn't feel like a waste

lonegunman762x51 · Sep 17, 2024

MK20 said:
But were you switching your schedule by 12 hours every 3 days like OPs proposed schedule?

I did a worse one for two years, switching back and forth from days to nights every 3 days. It sucked. The 4/3 3/4 thing is a Dupont schedule, most places on 12s work a version of that schedule. Working 12 hr days gives you more time off and requires fewer people, that's why the do it.

Yeah, the 100% pay raise I got for changing jobs was worth it. I'm glad to be done with it. But I'm glad I did it.

I went home and straight to bed on the nights, that seemed to work best for me. Maybe an afternoon nap before work if I didn't get enough sleep. I had blackout curtains on my bedroom and bathroom which made it easier to sleep.

Winter kind of sucked when I was on night's. It's dark when you go to bed, dark when you go to work and dark when you get home. It can be days without seeing the sun.

Take vitamin D and a good multivitamin every day, it helps a lot.

memilanuk · Sep 17, 2024

We work a modified Dupont schedule here... four 12 hr nights (Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday), three days (Friday, Saturday, Sunday), a short turn-around and three nights (Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday), four days (Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday), then four 8 hrs days the next week, which is technically a 'flex' shift - either the company or the worker can adjust the shifts a bit (within certain limits), then the big long change - seven days off. Total of seven 12 hr days, seven 12 hr nights, and four 8 hr days in a 35 day period.

I've been doing this schedule for the better part of 24 years, with another 10 or so to go if I want to retire @ 61. Did a 4-on, 4-off relief schedule for a few years in the middle, but it had its own downsides.

It is a control room (mostly) operator position, so not exactly physically demanding most days/nights.

You do eventually develop a sort of mutated circadian rhythm after a while. Start sleeping in later / taking naps mid day during the latter part of the long change. Figuring out whether staying up after the last night shift and going to bed early works better for you than taking a short nap in the morning and getting up mid day. Either way works for different folks. Keeping the bedroom cold and dark - I refer to it as 'cryo-sleep' - helps me a lot. Separate A/C - window shaker or mini split - may be worth the coin.

I'm one of those that does a split sleep - 3-4 hours when I get home, get up and putter around, then a nap for a couple hours before heading to work. Being aware of what you can do - and what you shouldn't - during those times can be key. Me, working in the shop with woodworking hand tools (hammer, chisel, planes) is fine. Brass prep, sorting components, load testing, fine. Power tools like table saw, router, handling powder, loading ammo... no bueno.

beetroot · Sep 18, 2024

I work permanent nights shifts and for the most part prefer it over a rotating shift or an early morning shift.

Some people hate shift work, other people love it, it just depends if it'll work for your body and lifestyle.

If it's only going to be for a few years then I'd say go for it. If it's more long term than that then you might want to try if out before changing your entire life around it.

Smitty192 · Sep 18, 2024

Thanks everyone. This has been really helpful. Lots of good information.

I appreciate all of the feedback and personal experiences.

346ci · Sep 18, 2024

I had to do about 8 months of 12hr nights, 2 on 3 off, 3 on 2 off. I'd seriously consider finding another job if I had to do it again.

hafejd30 · Sep 18, 2024

Yup DuPont schedule

I work it. You’re always tired. It’s not my first pick for schedules but I do get a 7 day stretch off every month and make a great living. I work decent amount of OT as well

At this point it almost feels weird to work an 8

Been on it for 7 years now

Smitty192 · Sep 18, 2024

hafejd30 said:
Yup DuPont schedule

I work it. You’re always tired. It’s not my first pick for schedules but I do get a 7 day stretch off every month and make a great living. I work decent amount of OT as well

At this point it almost feels weird to work an 8

Been on it for 7 years now

This job has the same 7 days stretch each month as well.

hafejd30 · Sep 18, 2024

Smitty192 said:
This job has the same 7 days stretch each month as well.

There’s perks to the job like the $$ obviously. 7 days off is nice. Paired with vacation and you get basically a half a month off

Where I work the pay is very good for the area. Some places have day jobs as well. So you can always avenue through the shift work into that. Those jobs here pay just as well as the swing shift jobs. Some are 12’s some are 8’s. Or use it as a foot in the door for management if that interests you

I like 12’s. More days off. Week days off are nice if you have to work on something or run errands. Everything is open when you’re off vs a 9-5 mon-Friday job

I like working midnights. So my preference would be the same schedule but non rotating and work only mids if I had the option.

The swapping back and forth takes its toll on you. You think you’ll get used to it but you really don’t.

It will however allow you to move from the Ruger precision or savage threads here to the AI threads if that matters

Northfl · Sep 18, 2024

I did a modified dupont schedule for 7 years. Had plenty of time off to get things done. When working of of night shift i would set an alarm for 10:00 am and get up and piddle around the house till bedtime at night then wake up like normal the next morning.
We worked 4 -12 hr days off thursday evening off till the following thursday night till off monday morning. Off till friday morning through sunday evening then back in monday night through wed night rinse repeat. Only seen management 5 days a month. Thats a big bonus.

missed · Sep 18, 2024

I have done it. I do not do well on it, at the time I had two younger kids in the house and were trying to make games and dance....

Staying strict on your routine is critical. I had to work out pre shift as I was pretty much worthless afterwords.

I managed to escape shift work and went to engineering only to find out they torture you during outages since you are not covered under work hour rules. I have recently left power generation as there was no life work balance. It was only work.

MrSmith · Sep 18, 2024

Through the years I think I have worked every crazy shift rotation devised. Not going into preferences but here's some general thoughts that worked for me. Many have been mentioned earlier and some won't fit your case but might be adapted. These are mainly geared toward three shift rotation. When I was on the really weird rotations and hours I was usually in a man camp or in a trailer in the middle of nowhere so I could whatever fit.

Darken bedroom windows with aluminum foil. This blocks light better than anything
Cool the room a few degrees so you can really snuggle the covers
Earplugs! Foam, Cut about a third off and really stick 'em in. You will need tweezers to remove them but they wont poke you when you roll over
Adjust your eating schedule so it fits the sleep schedule you select.
Grave, if rotating: split sleep, home stuff between, if steady: home stuff, sleep, go to work
Swing, light snack, sleep, home stuff, go to work

Nothing to offer on workouts. I was doing underground construction, sinking shaft and tunneling. Most of the shift was my workout. Stimulants weren't needed either.

One thing I did learn was not to mix schedules. When on days, do the day schedule. when on another shift do that schedule. Don't do the "I'm on grave but just for today I'll stay up an extra couple hours because I do that on the swing schedule" thing. It will bite you.

Thank you,
MrSmith

K80/6.5 · Sep 18, 2024

Looks like revised DuPont schedule. I have worked that schedule and shift for the last 13 years right out of college. I didn’t care for the DuPont schedule because I worked a bunch of overtime due to lack of employees. Now I work 2 on 2 off and every other weekend nights and days we stay on the same rotation for two weeks straight which is nice for your body to get used to working nights. I have little kids shift work can be hard on them. It sucks for shooting matches because you work 2 weekends every month. But getting doctors appointments, grocery store, and going to range during the middle of the week when everyone else is at work is nice.

Emerson0311 · Sep 18, 2024

So you would be working a brutal shift schedule so your wife can stop working, did I get that right? If you are trying to sacrifice your physical and mental well being in order to save your wife from the same thing? That can be a laudable goal, depending on her job and health. Rotating days and nights will negatively impact your life in many ways, just like working in the ER, or scraping body parts off the highway every day. That shit ain’t free bro.

Tigerfan34 · Sep 18, 2024

I worked a nearly identical schedule for 12 years. I wont comment on the dayshift part because we all know how that works.
I second the comments on blacking out windows and reducing noises. Basement rooms are ideal for both if you have that luxury.

The hardest part of rotating constantly is the rolling off night shift part. You'll typically find that working the 1st shift is not too bad, the 2nd kicks your ass, and your good to go from the 3rd one on. From there you're all set until you have to roll off.

When rolling off, you'll have to find what works for you. I worked in a group of 200 folks and we all did things a little different. When I was younger, I'd stay awake as long as possible after the last night shift. My goal was to make it to dark and then I could sleep through the night. I'd go through the day feeling like crap trying to stay awake, but at least I rolled off cleanly. As I got older, I'd go straight to sleep off nights and set multiple alarms for 2-3 hours later. IF I could drag myself up by the alarm clock and get through the day, I could also roll off cleanly.

HOWEVER, if I slept through that alarm it was over... I'd end up waking up at 1500 ready to roll for another set of nights. This would set me up for a 3 day fight trying to right the ship before dayshifts started again.

Good luck on whatever you choose. I agree that shift work is bad for your health, but we all have decisions to make.

tlsmith22 · Sep 18, 2024

I been working shift work since 2006, just turned 53 last week. We work 12 hr shifts and have a 6 week rotation. I operate the electrical power grid for parts of 7 states on the eastern interconnect and love my job. The shift work never really gets easy and I adjust back to “normal” during my 14 days off at the end of the 6 weeks. I get a lot of time off but never have slept good on nights, maybe 4 hrs a day. Our day shifts require us to be there ard 330 in the morning, so with my commute, I have to get up at 0230 for work. I still wouldn’t trade to go back to a straight days job that I left for it.

Smitty192 · Sep 18, 2024

Thanks again for all of the feedback. Really good stuff and I appreciate the candid information.

thejeep · Sep 18, 2024

After a night shift. Go home shower drink one beer. Go right to sleep until noon. 4 hour nap ish. Do some shit go to bed 8pm. Wake up on days.

Or do some shit have a drink in the afternoon go to bed at 7-8p wake up on days.

Or drink till you pass out after a night shift and wake up on days.

Either way your fucked on transition day.

When working nights. Wake up with plenty of time to exercise and make your "work day" about the exercise then go to work. Enjoy your day before work.

Major Wader · Sep 18, 2024

That's a typical pipeline controller schedule. Use your days off to incrementally move your sleep schedule.

I spent a few years on third shift. What worked for me was to start sleeping several hours after I left work, just as if I was working 10 AM to 6 PM instead of 10 PM to 6 AM. If you got off work at 6 PM, you wouldn't rush home and go straight to bed, so when I got off at 6 AM, I fished, hunted, cut grass, tended the garden, shopped, etc. Typically went to be around 11 AM and got up around 7 PM, and lived my life.

Did the same when I worked a swing shift. Don't go home and rush to bed, give your body time to relax, then go to bed. Get up a few hours before your shift starts.

gigamortis · Sep 18, 2024

I would much prefer fixed nightshifts. Some people are night owls, some people are morning people. If employers would like to improve safety and productivity, they should let everyone that prefers nightshift stay on that shift full time.

memilanuk · Sep 18, 2024

One thing you will find very quickly on any kind of shift work is what your body prefers.

Long ago and far away, I spent a bit of time in the shipyard while I was in the Navy. For whatever reason, I ended up on swing shift. Of course, it being the Navy and me being not qualified yet, it wasn't exactly a 'true' swing shift - more like work 8, then hang over 4 more for quals. But I did find that that particular shift agreed with me - a lot.

Then there's the fuckery that is the rolling shifts underway, even worse when you're understaffed and the junior guy (you) gets stuck doing "port & starboard" watches (6 hr on, 6 hr off). Which worked out to more like 24-30 up, 4-5 hrs sleep - unless something happens. Which invariably did. Fuck that noise.

When I got out and worked at a steel mill for a while, I did primarily swings and found that I can stay up til 1-2 am no problem. I got off work at midnight, I'd go hit the store when there's no one there but the people stocking shelves. No lines, great parking, etc. Then go home and sleep until I wake up - no alarm clock. Maybe go hit an afternoon matinee at the movie theater... Come back to work feeling great. Downsides... I was working right when most people my age were at the bar/club. Not much of a social life. Married people, especially with kids, hated it. They had to get up early, see their wife/kids at breakfast, and try to get back to sleep.

For me, nights are an extension of that: my body is less happy about being awake at 3-4 am, but less unhappy than it is about being awake at 1-2 pm. Some of us just aren't wired like the rest of the world when it comes to this stuff. Most people hate shift work, and view rotating shifts as particularly cruel & unusual punishment. Me... not so much

MrSmith · Sep 18, 2024

gigamortis said:
I would much prefer fixed nightshifts. Some people are night owls, some people are morning people. If employers would like to improve safety and productivity, they should let everyone that prefers nightshift stay on that shift full time.

Yes. I did straight graves for a year. I liked it, my wife didn't. There is 5% of the population that nobody knows exists.

Then again, there are those that will judge you for sitting in the bar at 9 in the morning.

If I were to do it again, and not married, straight swing would be my choice.

Thank you,
MrSmith

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