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Were Nazis Left Or Right Wing?
- Thread starter Maser
- Start date
The difference between commies and fascists the very nebulous concept of who supposedly “owns” the means of production.
They are both socialist totalitarian scum. And basically the same. Which is why it is not “left and right” but a circle where the to forms of socialism are almost touching at the top…
And conservatism and laissez-faire capitalism is right at the bottom. Someday I’ll draw it…
Sirhr
Based on most people's views, the two most notorious fascists in history are Mussolini and Hitler, and they were both socialists. The so-called Godfather of Fascism and Mussolini's co-author, Giovanni Gentile, was a self described socialist.
It was American 'progressive' journalists of that era who gave birth to the lie that fascism was a rightist system, because Hitler was just to the right of Stalin.
It was American 'progressive' journalists of that era who gave birth to the lie that fascism was a rightist system, because Hitler was just to the right of Stalin.
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They redefined man and woman, did anyone really think they wouldn’t redefine left and right, socialism and fascism, or change history itself?
Why time travel when you can just say it so much, everyone starts to believe it?
Why time travel when you can just say it so much, everyone starts to believe it?
I haven't studied this aspect of the history and workings of fascism... But I would venture a guess that if you weren't a member of the party, or connected with someone who was, you were SOL.
If that holds water then there wasn't really a damn bit of difference between fascism and marxism.
They just had different scapegoats to blame for society's ills.
Mike
The “left” only focuses on the national pride and strength aspect of fascism, essentially making patriotism a sin. This is why they call MAGA fascism, completely ignoring the economic aspects of fascist movements, along with everything else like single rule, no checks and balances, no Republic rights, very limited rights of the people, etc.
This is why they want to flood the borders, to reduce patriotism’s influence on the ones they wish to rule. It’s why they want to ban flying American flags in the name of racism, because the left doesn’t want their people to be proud Americans, they want their people to be subservient subjects with no loyalties to any cause, state, religion, or ideals.
Left and right has been so skewed, it’s nowhere near that simple to place all forms of governance into one or the other.
This is why they want to flood the borders, to reduce patriotism’s influence on the ones they wish to rule. It’s why they want to ban flying American flags in the name of racism, because the left doesn’t want their people to be proud Americans, they want their people to be subservient subjects with no loyalties to any cause, state, religion, or ideals.
Left and right has been so skewed, it’s nowhere near that simple to place all forms of governance into one or the other.
Hard right wing. The commies are hard left wing. Both were evil. I will say, as wrong as Hitler was, he had his reasons. The Bolshevik revolution was propagated by Jews. The Russians suffered the Holdimore at the hands of Jewish Marxists. They then overly burdened Germany with wwI reparations
NAZI was an acronym for National Socialist Workers Party. They were socialists, leftist. And the boot-stomp Stasi and storm troopers were all part of that. Nothing right wing about it. That right wing horseshit is just fake news from leftists and democrats, but that is redundant, I know.
Not only horse shit. Projecting what they really are. All of the leftists & Democrats. Projecting what they are, and what they would do...
A Nazi is basically a democrat, except a democrat hates Jews more than a Nazi hated them.
A Nazi is basically a democrat who loves his/her/it's country. The key difference between the two is that the typical democrat despises America and wants to destroy America.
A nazi is slightly right of a far left comminst/democrat but all three groups are off on the far left and their members are all basically evil, genocidal maniacs.
The fact that Kamaltoe's slogan is a Nazi slogan and the name of an actual Nazi party organization that provided Nazi themed vacations and indoctrination camps for loyal party members tells you all you need to know.
A Nazi is basically a democrat who loves his/her/it's country. The key difference between the two is that the typical democrat despises America and wants to destroy America.
A nazi is slightly right of a far left comminst/democrat but all three groups are off on the far left and their members are all basically evil, genocidal maniacs.
The fact that Kamaltoe's slogan is a Nazi slogan and the name of an actual Nazi party organization that provided Nazi themed vacations and indoctrination camps for loyal party members tells you all you need to know.
Fascism and Communism are two sides of the socialist (collectivist) coin. Both are hard left.
Fascism = private ownership of the means of production with governmental controls (licensing, permitting, oversight).
Communism = governmental ownership and control of the means of production.
Both control the people through a monopoly on force (police)
Both control the people through a monopoly on money. (banksters)
Both control the people through a monopoly on education.
Both control the people through a monopoly on redress of grievances (courts)
Both control the people through a monopoly on prosecution of criminals.
Fascism = private ownership of the means of production with governmental controls (licensing, permitting, oversight).
Communism = governmental ownership and control of the means of production.
Both control the people through a monopoly on force (police)
Both control the people through a monopoly on money. (banksters)
Both control the people through a monopoly on education.
Both control the people through a monopoly on redress of grievances (courts)
Both control the people through a monopoly on prosecution of criminals.
As someone has already stated, it’s in the name. They are/were socialists.
Also,
Both hate traditional Christian clerical religion (Christian clerics are the only ones who condemn them).
Both hate patriarchal agrarian society (pre civil war Southern USA, Holdomor, Moa).
Both hate the middle class (it's their only opposition)
Both hate the right to keep and bear arms.
Both hate free speech.
Both hate you.
Both hate traditional Christian clerical religion (Christian clerics are the only ones who condemn them).
Both hate patriarchal agrarian society (pre civil war Southern USA, Holdomor, Moa).
Both hate the middle class (it's their only opposition)
Both hate the right to keep and bear arms.
Both hate free speech.
Both hate you.
Just another form of collectivism. Different name, same result.
NAZI, Socialist or Communist.... All, the same.... They just go about it slightly differently. No left or right just one central total power center.
The terms “Fascism and Liberal” are misunderstood.
I AM A CLASSICAL LIBERAL. What you say? what is this idiot doing on a gun website!! Read this definition of what true “classical” political liberals stood for in the 18th through the early 20th century:
Liberalism is an ideology developed by political thinkers in the 18th century and associated with the American and French Revolutions.
It developed in opposition to control of government and society by aristocracy, absolute monarchy and the church. Its fundamentals are:-
– People are rational individuals and able to make decisions for themselves in normal circumstance.
– People should have freedom to take their own decisions without control by government.
– As well as freedoms such as free speech or freedom to decide whether to follow a religion people should be free to have property and use it as they wish.
– There is a general belief that a free market without government control is the most effective in creating wealth.
– Government may have a limited role in areas such as national defence that the individual cannot do or in preventing people doing severe harm to others by criminal activity.j
– There is a general belief that society is capable of continuous progress if liberalism is held to.
This from Denish D’Souza:
“After World War II there was a very important progressive cover-up project that went on in America. The basic idea was to camouflage the close associations of the political left with fascism and Nazism; and to move fascism and Nazism from the left — where they were always understood to be — into the right wing column. This was actually one of the most cunning sleights of hand ever performed in American history.”
THIS WAS ONE OF THE KEY FRAUDS OF OUR LIFETIME: THE LEFT, MARXISTS, COMMUNISTS, PROGRESSIVES - whatever you want to call them - were able to associate conservatives and the “political right” with fascism and at the same time take possession of the term “liberal“ as their own label with the help of a corrupt media and a GOP that stood idly by and cowardly accepting
I AM A CLASSICAL LIBERAL. What you say? what is this idiot doing on a gun website!! Read this definition of what true “classical” political liberals stood for in the 18th through the early 20th century:
Liberalism is an ideology developed by political thinkers in the 18th century and associated with the American and French Revolutions.
It developed in opposition to control of government and society by aristocracy, absolute monarchy and the church. Its fundamentals are:-
– People are rational individuals and able to make decisions for themselves in normal circumstance.
– People should have freedom to take their own decisions without control by government.
– As well as freedoms such as free speech or freedom to decide whether to follow a religion people should be free to have property and use it as they wish.
– There is a general belief that a free market without government control is the most effective in creating wealth.
– Government may have a limited role in areas such as national defence that the individual cannot do or in preventing people doing severe harm to others by criminal activity.j
– There is a general belief that society is capable of continuous progress if liberalism is held to.
This from Denish D’Souza:
“After World War II there was a very important progressive cover-up project that went on in America. The basic idea was to camouflage the close associations of the political left with fascism and Nazism; and to move fascism and Nazism from the left — where they were always understood to be — into the right wing column. This was actually one of the most cunning sleights of hand ever performed in American history.”
THIS WAS ONE OF THE KEY FRAUDS OF OUR LIFETIME: THE LEFT, MARXISTS, COMMUNISTS, PROGRESSIVES - whatever you want to call them - were able to associate conservatives and the “political right” with fascism and at the same time take possession of the term “liberal“ as their own label with the help of a corrupt media and a GOP that stood idly by and cowardly accepting
The NSDAP was widely regarded for how successfully they created a prosperous and peaceful country for Germans in the 1930’s. Even National Geographic did a feature article Feb 1937. That was their primary goal and purpose. New York jews and international bankers didn’t like it, so war was inevitable. The modern telling of it would have us believe Germany was a miserable place to be for Germans. As it is, the NSDAP lost, so communists get to write the narrative on what National Socialism means, what they did, and why.
Modern American and European politics is a dumpster fire, so I reckon there’s limited value in trying to figure out how NS fits in to it. It would be better understood learning what it was, and why it was, in the context of it’s place and time. The parallels of 1920’s Weimar Germany and current day US/Europe are striking.
OP, It was an interesting video, and much better than I was expecting.
Prioritizing Individualism atomizes a society, the results are plain as day. In-group preference, otherwise expressed as Nationalism, is normal and accepted everywhere except for white America and Europe, and media facilitates this.
I do disagree with the point that NSDAP was expansionist. They were for Germans everywhere - Austria, Sudetenland, Danzig, and other regions with Germans previously part of the German Empire. The French, Czech, Belgian and Polish governments were brutal to those expats, and Hitler took issue with that. Historical records support these facts, though modern day establishment academics who don’t like that will tell us otherwise.
Modern American and European politics is a dumpster fire, so I reckon there’s limited value in trying to figure out how NS fits in to it. It would be better understood learning what it was, and why it was, in the context of it’s place and time. The parallels of 1920’s Weimar Germany and current day US/Europe are striking.
OP, It was an interesting video, and much better than I was expecting.
Prioritizing Individualism atomizes a society, the results are plain as day. In-group preference, otherwise expressed as Nationalism, is normal and accepted everywhere except for white America and Europe, and media facilitates this.
I do disagree with the point that NSDAP was expansionist. They were for Germans everywhere - Austria, Sudetenland, Danzig, and other regions with Germans previously part of the German Empire. The French, Czech, Belgian and Polish governments were brutal to those expats, and Hitler took issue with that. Historical records support these facts, though modern day establishment academics who don’t like that will tell us otherwise.
I wouldn’t call it “left” or “right”, but would most definitely call it evil. There are tenants of nazism that lean both directions, but whether a person is a D or and R should not matter to be able to agree they nazism didn’t do good things to the world
Hitler was a white nationalist. That is why they label Trump and his supporters as white nationalists. Every free country in the world is full of nationalists. If you don’t support your “nation” you are either a traitor or very close to being one. Being a nationalist is not a bad thing, but killing millions of another ethnicity is most definitely evil
Trying to distinguish between the multitude of barely distinguishable variants of collectivism is like arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Pointless, and it plays right into the enemy's tactics of divide and conquer while they pursue their goal of destabilizing western civilization and causing chaos so they can implement their plans for whatever ism is their cause du jour.
Ef 'em all.
In the last century,collectivism collectivists murdered between 160 and 180 million people. It wasn't the ideology that did that. It was the individual adherents that did that.
This century, in fact, lets make it this millennium, it ought to be the collectivists turn to get in the boxcar.
Ef 'em all.
In the last century,
This century, in fact, lets make it this millennium, it ought to be the collectivists turn to get in the boxcar.
Just to tack on to this if you read "The Road to Surfdom" Hayek covers how "Liberal" became "Progressive" in the early 20th century, so American "Conservatives" are in fact trying to "Conserve" our original "liberalism"
And today's liberals are NOTHING like the orignal "liberals" or "whigs" from When the US broke from the UK. In fact if you follow UK politics, Liberal Party often joins with the Conservatives (aka Tory party) against Labour).
The idea only lasted 12 years before it committed suicide was covered in petroleum and set on fire. That is how shitty of an idea it was.
It was based more around the belief that their specific blood line was superior, nationalism and had clearly defined what they didn't like(jews, commies and capitalist etc), but never really developed any core principles of governance, again because the rest of the world stomped that shit right on out when they started wars with everyone, committing genocide.
It's some where in the extreme authoritarian relm with an unproven left or right bias.
It was based more around the belief that their specific blood line was superior, nationalism and had clearly defined what they didn't like(jews, commies and capitalist etc), but never really developed any core principles of governance, again because the rest of the world stomped that shit right on out when they started wars with everyone, committing genocide.
It's some where in the extreme authoritarian relm with an unproven left or right bias.
Someone likes to watch the History Channel. Have you read any primary sources?
That's easy if you know the original name of the party:
'National Socialist German Workers' Party."
'National Socialist German Workers' Party."
I don't fully understand your last sentence (conclusion). Care to expand on that? Especially the left or right bias part. And I get the "extreme" part but who's who today is what I wonder about. Who are the left and who are the right "extreme authoritarians"? And which one is running the show today. My research tells me that line is blurred beyond recognition....
Read his wiki bio and have heard the story of his plane crash while trying to flee. Made it all the way to Ukraine and barely escaped the red army. I'd say he was far right in belief.
Any thing specifically written by him you suggest reading?
Basically I don't know how to quantify their left or rightness. They were not around long enough to really see what they would do. What they did was extremely authoritarian. Examples, elimination any other party/pressuring everyone to become a Nazi. Elimination of certain segments of the population, SS Gestapo... that type of stuff.
As of today I see the Democrat's giving the extreme left the lip service they want to hear while at their core still being their old selfs. Its easier to Govern the stupid and poor than it is the rich and intellectual. Go listen to Bill and Hillary Clinton talking in the 1990's or Joe Biden in the 80's 90'etc... Go back to the 1850's and you can read abouy Douglas(d) debating Lincoln(R) on Slave rights. They are those same people but have learned they must lie to appeal to more people. Today all they do is say what they think people wana hear... When they get in office they are going to follow their real agenda. I don't see what I would call "nazi level extreme authoritarianism" out of either side". I agree it is fairly blurred and a moving target adding the real agend is two wings of the same bird. Thing is that bird realizes its being hunted... and if threatened might get it there.
While not exactly on the subject, ran into this today and found it interesting and fitting to post here.
The top graphic is in error. There is nothing “majority rule” about the left half of the graph. Collectivism, yes, but not majority rule. Leftist government is always by the few, in the name of the many, whether they want it or not.
Once again, 3 pages and no one posted. this?
Most "normal" poltics follows a line from the lower left to the upper right.
Site has its downsides. Depending on how I answer I'm usually libertarian right (Purple). Modern Politics almost invariably is authoritarian right (even liberals)--again along a line from lower left to upper right. I think they over exaggerate the authoritarianism scale, but like I said, the concept is good.
these guys really hate right wingers, but the idea is sound. Here's kinda the standard from a past election.
Hitler and stalin would be Authoritarian Leftists. (Red) Stalin would be upper Left and Hitler more Upper Middle (but left hand side). They used to have "famous" people marked. Anyway, something to ponder
One flaw with their quiz is it doesn't separate morality for government. Like "I want my kids educated in religion in school" Yes, I would. But I would not FORCE that on anyone--very different concept. As usual nuance is lost in these quick quizes. Normally I hang out with the Ron Paul on the far right blue/purple border.
I'd be curious what they consider centered on those political compass graphs. Personally I don't think Trump is that extreme right or authoritarian. And script reading Joe, at his core ain't that centered, if you want he real Joe you gotta look back in time. Thats why they stop him any time he goes off script. And Kamala is a full fledged marxist.
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The Political Compass
A typology of political opinions plotted on 2 dimensions: economic and social.
www.politicalcompass.org
Like I said, it is very biased against American right wing (I think it over emphasis authoritarianism), but I like the concept
One of its downfalls, as I mentioned it doesn't distinguish between individual ideas and government ideas.
So while I can say that "Sex outside of marriage is immoral (one of the quiz questions)" that hits me with authoritarian (note it doesn't ask "Should sex outside of marriage be illegal/punished"). But I don't give a shit what adults do, there should be no govt interference in that kind of thing. AKA I can have morals that I don't need the govt to "enforce"
The Political Compass
A typology of political opinions plotted on 2 dimensions: economic and social.
Like I said, it is very biased against American right wing (I think it over emphasis authoritarianism), but I like the concept
One of its downfalls, as I mentioned it doesn't distinguish between individual ideas and government ideas.
So while I can say that "Sex outside of marriage is immoral (one of the quiz questions)" that hits me with authoritarian (note it doesn't ask "Should sex outside of marriage be illegal/punished"). But I don't give a shit what adults do, there should be no govt interference in that kind of thing. AKA I can have morals that I don't need the govt to "enforce"
Try to stay away from the left-right nonsense. These terms are a construct of the Marxist/progressive/fascist idiology.
I am careful not to use the terms “left” and “right” in conversations with the political illiterate because these terms are so misunderstood. They originate from the French parliament during the French Revolution where the supporters of the monarchy sat on the right and the revolutionaries sat on the left. Absolutely nothing to do with American politics but the marxists use the term “right wing” for conservative Americans because they were successful in defining Hitler’s Nazis as “right wing” while in truth the Nazis were true fascists associated with collectivism and totalitarianism.
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Anything not at the extreme left end of totalitarian socialism is "right wing" to the left. By defining both sides of the argument they are able to keep things moving left even when they may lose a battle.
@sirhrmechanic I don’t think you ever took the time to draw it out. Here’s one similar to what I saw a few years ago.
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