3 boxes FGMM, different packaging. 2 diff printed Velocity

D

D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷

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Minuteman
Sep 11, 2014
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Yuma, AZ
#1
Prob already covered but my google’fu is weak today.

I’ve got some 168gn 308w FGMM

I noticed 3 different packages. Then noticed the white/blk box lists vel: 2,600fps while the other 2 list vel: 2,650fps

Any insight is appreciated

IMG_6319.jpeg


IMG_6318.jpeg


IMG_6320.jpeg
 
#12
Maybe they were guessing on the oldest box and finally bought a chronograph?

Could be a number of reasons.
We haven't seen any real velocity difference during any of the transitions.
Packaging might be reflecting something as simple as a change in the barrel length used to calc the MV.
 
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#13
Terry Cross said:
Maybe they were guessing on the oldest box and finally bought a chronograph?

Could be a number of reasons.
We haven't seen any real velocity difference during any of the transitions.
Packaging might be reflecting something as simple as a change in the barrel length used to calc the MV.
Click to expand...
There’s some dogshit covid production floating around in the fancy gold boxes though. And also single digit SD lots. Can’t tell which is which.
 
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#14
TheOE800 said:
There’s some dogshit covid production floating around in the fancy gold boxes though. And also single digit SD lots. Can’t tell which is which.
Click to expand...
For sure.
I have a case and a half of the old white and navy blue GM308M that has crazy pressure problems. It has been stored perfectly but Fed says the issue is from age deterioration. I'm saying nope. blowing primers and even getting some gas excursions from pin holes in the web of the case points to a crappy run of brass or similar.

Regardless of that, I'm a Federal whore. Love the stuff and we still see more QC issues from Hornady than all the other brands combined.
 
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#15
Terry Cross said:
For sure.
I have a case and a half of the old white and navy blue GM308M that has crazy pressure problems. It has been stored perfectly but Fed says the issue is from age deterioration. I'm saying nope. blowing primers and even getting some gas excursions from pin holes in the web of the case points to a crappy run of brass or similar.

Regardless of that, I'm a Federal whore. Love the stuff and we still see more QC issues from Hornady than all the other brands combined.
Click to expand...
+100 on the Hornady QC.

As a 204 shooter I don’t have tons of factory options. My 40gr SuperPerformance Vmax is usually 150-200fps ES and 35-40 SD.

I’m no reloader but that doesn’t seem great to me.
 
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#16
Terry Cross said:
For sure.
I have a case and a half of the old white and navy blue GM308M that has crazy pressure problems. It has been stored perfectly but Fed says the issue is from age deterioration. I'm saying nope. blowing primers and even getting some gas excursions from pin holes in the web of the case points to a crappy run of brass or similar.

Regardless of that, I'm a Federal whore. Love the stuff and we still see more QC issues from Hornady than all the other brands combined.
Click to expand...
Could be nitro separation and the nitro is starting to crystallize. Ive seen it on old munitions but the date range and storage conditions were longer and worse. It wouldn't be enough to detonate like old grenades but might be enough to cause pressure issues and large es swings.
 
#17
DeathBeforeDismount said:
Could be nitro separation and the nitro is starting to crystallize. Ive seen it on old munitions but the date range and storage conditions were longer and worse. It wouldn't be enough to detonate like old grenades but might be enough to cause pressure issues and large es swings.
Click to expand...
Don't think that is it.

Ammo stored in climate controlled conditions and only transport vibration was initial delivery. No moisture. No light. etc.

Pulled 2 rounds and powder showed no obvious signs of breakdown.

Hell, we've shot 30-06 and 45 ACP ammo that is 80yrs old and stuff runs like a sewing machine with decent numbers!
 
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#18
Terry Cross said:
we still see more QC issues from Hornady than all the other brands combined.
Click to expand...
They're putting out some real junk these days. Had a lot where the body of the cases weren't properly sized. Had to slam the stuff in to get the bolt closed. And no, the chamber was clean as a whistle...well, until I scraped brass off these cases and needed to clean that out.

Oh...and this was their 6.5 ELD-M...supposedly match ammo. Wow.
 
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#19
Terry Cross said:
Don't think that is it.

Ammo stored in climate controlled conditions and only transport vibration was initial delivery. No moisture. No light. etc.

Pulled 2 rounds and powder showed no obvious signs of breakdown.

Hell, we've shot 30-06 and 45 ACP ammo that is 80yrs old and stuff runs like a sewing machine with decent numbers!
Click to expand...
Just throwing out ideas. I have a ton of the Greek 3006 ammo in tins from the 50 from the cmp. It still shoots great but I never ran across a chrono to confirm. Just refinished one of my garands last week...need to take her out and bang some steel.
 
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#20
carbonbased said:
+100 on the Hornady QC.

As a 204 shooter I don’t have tons of factory options. My 40gr SuperPerformance Vmax is usually 150-200fps ES and 35-40 SD.

I’m no reloader but that doesn’t seem great to me.
Click to expand...
RE: Hornady so-called “SuperPerformance” Vmax 40gr in 204 Ruger out of a Tikka with a nice 22” Bugholes Mueller barrel.

Here’s the chrono from tonight. 💩
6CB3C690-4366-40FE-BEEA-4282FB18663F.jpeg


Hard to know if the groups are me or the ammo…

My older cache of the stuff is better than this. Not leaps and bounds better, but this newer stuff is really crap. And the older stuff I have has been driven/vibrated all over the place.
 
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#23
carbonbased said:
RE: Hornady so-called “SuperPerformance” Vmax 40gr in 204 Ruger out of a Tikka with a nice 22” Bugholes Mueller barrel.

Here’s the chrono from tonight. 💩
View attachment 8515081

Hard to know if the groups are me or the ammo…

My older cache of the stuff is better than this. Not leaps and bounds better, but this newer stuff is really crap. And the older stuff I have has been driven/vibrated all over the place.
Click to expand...
Hornady in general doesn’t like my long throated .308, but nothing in this world has shot worse than their factory Superformance/150gr SST load.

Hot rodded cartridge on the box is cool though 🤷‍♂️
 
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#25
Terry Cross said:
For sure.
I have a case and a half of the old white and navy blue GM308M that has crazy pressure problems. It has been stored perfectly but Fed says the issue is from age deterioration. I'm saying nope. blowing primers and even getting some gas excursions from pin holes in the web of the case points to a crappy run of brass or similar.

Regardless of that, I'm a Federal whore. Love the stuff and we still see more QC issues from Hornady than all the other brands combined.
Click to expand...
Terry,

I read what you posted, read it again just now. I’ll keep an eye on it. This is all the same lot so I’m hoping I’m trouble free. It was a heavy box.

Rifle had a documented 110 round count prior to firing. I’ll keep an eye on it.

I appreciate your experience and forewarning, thank you.

IMG_6374.jpeg
 
#26
D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷ said:
Terry,

I read what you posted, read it again just now. I’ll keep an eye on it. This is all the same lot so I’m hoping I’m trouble free. It was a heavy box.

Rifle had a documented 110 round count prior to firing. I’ll keep an eye on it.

I appreciate your experience and forewarning, thank you.

View attachment 8515722
Click to expand...
Hey, don't take me sharing that experience as a pox on that era of manufacture. There is a bazillion rounds of that stuff that has been sent down range with crazy good results. Any company can FU. I was just one of the lucky few that got something weird. Those empties look just fine. I will try to find the cases I kept from that bad lot and share.
 
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#27
Terry Cross said:
Hey, don't take me sharing that experience as a pox on that era of manufacture. There is a bazillion rounds of that stuff that has been sent down range with crazy good results. Any company can FU. I was just one of the lucky few that got something weird. Those empties look just fine. I will try to find the cases I kept from that bad lot and share.
Click to expand...
Understood.

I’m barely learning what guys have known for a long time. I’m just enjoying the ride. It’s a neat hobby for me.
 
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#29
Took a box of “new batch”for a ride today. Didn’t get ALL the data. The data I did get was confusing. All rounds sent from the same box. Some were at 200 others at 100. I was not expecting an SD of 34. Is this a “nothing” and I should keep it moving on?



1729132046233.png


1729131806318.png


Forgot to dial back the 0.3 mil after the 200yd steel. At least I know the scope tracking is dead nuts.

1729131869285.jpeg


1729132204724.png
 
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#30
D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷ said:
Took a box of “new batch”for a ride today. Didn’t get ALL the data. The data I did get was confusing. All rounds sent from the same box. Some were at 200 others at 100. I was not expecting an SD of 34. Is this a “nothing” and I should keep it moving on?



View attachment 8526030

View attachment 8526020

Forgot to dial back the 0.3 mil after the 200yd steel. At least I know the scope tracking is dead nuts.

View attachment 8526021

View attachment 8526047
Click to expand...
How many shots in that data? If only six, its not statistically valid. Yeah, ES won't come down, but SD very well may.
 
#32
D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷ said:
That string was 13 shots
Click to expand...
Still might come down if you add more data. As I'm sure you know, the Garmin will close down a session when powered off and won't let you add. So, I just get the csv file into Excel and add more data then run average and SD in that program. Easy to do and let's me aggregate data from multiple sessions to get higher validity.

Best of luck
 
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#33
Baron23 said:
Still might come down if you add more data. As I'm sure you know, the Garmin will close down a session when powered off and won't let you add. So, I just get the csv file into Excel and add more data then run average and SD in that program. Easy to do and let's me aggregate data from multiple sessions to get higher validity.

Best of luck
Click to expand...
I appreciate the feedback.

I’m still learning the garmin. So far I’ve found it to be very enjoyable and a fine upgrade over the magneto in terms of set up and nervousness of shooting the darn thing.
 
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#34
Terry Cross said:
For sure.
I have a case and a half of the old white and navy blue GM308M that has crazy pressure problems. It has been stored perfectly but Fed says the issue is from age deterioration. I'm saying nope. blowing primers and even getting some gas excursions from pin holes in the web of the case points to a crappy run of brass or similar.

Regardless of that, I'm a Federal whore. Love the stuff and we still see more QC issues from Hornady than all the other brands combined.
Click to expand...
I guess I'd be pulling bullets and piling powder then develop a safe load.
 
#35
Terry Cross said:
Regardless of that, I'm a Federal whore. Love the stuff and we still see more QC issues from Hornady than all the other brands combined.
Click to expand...

Nothing beats the Remington I got with backwards primers and bullets. Freedom group era.

Considering I've seen stores with nothing but Hornaday on the shelf during ammo shortages they may do more volume than anyone else for civilian sales.

D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷ said:
Took a box of “new batch”for a ride today. Didn’t get ALL the data. The data I did get was confusing. All rounds sent from the same box. Some were at 200 others at 100. I was not expecting an SD of 34. Is this a “nothing” and I should keep it moving on?
Click to expand...

If you're not going to handload you're at the mercy of the factory and good and bad lots for your barrel.

I've had powder lots that needed to add/subtract 1+ grn of powder to maintain velocity with the exact same brass.
Brass can also vary lot to lot.


FGMM is usually good stuff, but I'd be looking at Berger for more consistency (which comes with more price).
 
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#36
chevy_man said:
Nothing beats the Remington I got with backwards primers and bullets. Freedom group era.

Considering I've seen stores with nothing but Hornaday on the shelf during ammo shortages they may do more volume than anyone else for civilian sales.



If you're not going to handload you're at the mercy of the factory and good and bad lots for your barrel.

I've had powder lots that needed to add/subtract 1+ grn of powder to maintain velocity with the exact same brass.
Brass can also vary lot to lot.


FGMM is usually good stuff, but I'd be looking at Berger for more consistency (which comes with more price).
Click to expand...
Ill have to post up some flipped primers and sideways loaded factory Bergers everyone is so happy with.

You tell the truth, hand load.

Been at it so long my factory ammo is old enough to vote.
 
#38
chevy_man said:
Considering I've seen stores with nothing but Hornaday on the shelf during ammo shortages they may do more volume than anyone else for civilian sales.
Click to expand...
Actually, no.
Hornady is actually quite small in regards to volume of total ammo sales in the U.S. market.

Their marketing is big in our space but they aren't even close on numbers.
 
#39
@chevy_man to satisfy your curiosity.

No one is perfect, quite a few 6.5CM were fucked.

If @Berger wanted to replace these I’ll be pulling the primers first 😎 if not I’ll keep moving on w life. Pulled the powder and projos already.

1729715358755.jpeg


1729715397054.jpeg


1729715434482.jpeg



260REM
1729715481968.jpeg


Their 300WM is Norma brass. Forgot to pull the projo on far right. Need to recover these primers
1729715520899.jpeg
 
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#40
D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷ said:
@chevy_man to satisfy your curiosity.

No one is perfect, quite a few 6.5CM were fucked.

If @Berger wanted to replace these I’ll be pulling the primers first 😎 if not I’ll keep moving on w life. Pulled the powder and projos already.

View attachment 8530938

View attachment 8530939

View attachment 8530940


260REM
View attachment 8530942

Their 300WM is Norma brass. Forgot to pull the projo on far right. Need to recover these primers
View attachment 8530944
Click to expand...

Ouch. For the prices they charge that's ridiculous.


Why haven't you contacted them for replacements?
 
#41
chevy_man said:
Ouch. For the prices they charge that's ridiculous.


Why haven't you contacted them for replacements?
Click to expand...

Because I don’t want to be called a liar, treated like a hostile witness or get some low level QC guy fired.

It’s easier for me to just move on with my life.

Maybe I’ll get karma points later in life.
 
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