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30-06 still relevant?
- Thread starter Blount8
- Start date
Name me one cartridge that is 118 years old that is ballistically superior to the 30-06.
Name one cartridge that is over 100 years old that could remotely be competitive in a 1000 yard match.
We get it @hlee you dont like the 30-06. The facts dont support your bias.
Name one cartridge that is over 100 years old that could remotely be competitive in a 1000 yard match.
We get it @hlee you dont like the 30-06. The facts dont support your bias.
I don’t have anything, in particular, against the 30-06. There may not be an older cartridge that is as capable. That would be an argument for relavence in… 1906. But, it’s 2024. We’re chockablock full of cartridges more capable. Some of them being ballistically superior while being simultaneously lower recoiling.
With the advent of modern components, the 30-06 is arguably more capable today than it was when it was introduced.
But, with the advent of modern materials, muzzle loaders are more capable than they were when the sun set on their reign.
And, with the advent of modern materials, archery equipment is more capable than it was during the Iron Age.
And, with the advent of modern materials, bludgeoning weapons are more capable than they were during the stone age.
All of them “still kill shit dead.” That does not preclude the fact that they are all obsolete weapons technology.
Nice strawman, i like the hat.
"Modern" 30-06 shares all the same technology with the 6.5 Creedmoor.
Your strawman is on fire.
The 30-06 is the only cartridge from its day, that has embraced the space age and thrives.
Its still in the top ten chamerings of any year you can name for 75 years. Some years in the top five.
Its the number one cartridge sold in alaska.
Being old doesn’t equate to relevance. Being the oldest player on the field just makes you the oldest player on the field. And, being in the top of retail sales just means that market is still dominated by fudds.
But, I get it. It’s personal, because you share a birth year. If it hasn’t been said recently, @armorpl8chikn, you are still relevant.
I don’t have my rifle or a scale handy, but Kidd lists the weight of their (and by extension my) Kidd 10/22 at 7 lb 6oz. I have both competed and won local “PRS” comps with it.
I might point out that this thread began in 2019. I'm also pretty sure I remember this discussion from 1970s gun magazines. Just saying.
That even though haters have been hating for 5 decades the round just keeps going and going? @hlee this may blow your mind but people still use muzzle loaders. There's even hunting seasons dedicated to them. By the way got any bow kills? That's a thing too, I know crazy right?
Yeah, I hunt with muzzle loaders, and archery equipment. They’re both so effective that they have their own special seasons.
You know what else is obsolete? 45 acp. Waxed canvas duck clothing. LL Bean boots. Flannel, anything. Break action long arms. Pump action long arms. Lever action long arms. Revolvers. That aught’a get some hate stirring…
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Like any good hide thread, this turned into a bickering match 
…. let me offer my .2 cents that will be ignored, and i’ll be flamed…
From the point of view of a hunting cartridge, the 06 is very good and I’d argue one of the absolute best hunting offerings available, is it “better” from a ballistics standpoint of most new cartridges? No, and I’d say not even close if you purely look at BC, and mil corrections, but from a big picture standpoint its pretty dang good.
In my experience from a hunting standpoint 30-06 provides logistical superiority in remote places out west / alaska. I find ammo for 30-06 in small towns across ID, MT, and AK in gas stations etc. I cannot say the same for my 300PRC. If you’ve ever had some bs happen on a hunt, had to re-zero, or your fine tuned loads all of a sudden fall apart in 20*F when you made them @ 70*F you know having ammo available is a valuable tool in the last ditch effort to save a hunt. This happened to me last year in MT.
For a project my hunting partner who’s left handed built a lefty rifle in 30-06 that I am envious of. It’s a solid 3/4 MOA avg gun, which is well inside of the accuracy requirements for a bullet that needs 2000fps to expand, 168TTSX. Inside of 450 yards (min impact velocity) if you miss its on the shooter.
The frontal sectional area of .30 cal’s just seem to put animals down better than 6.5’s etc, thats not just my opinion, but of MANY guides/outfitters who have cumulatively witnessed 1000’s of animals shot. Will a 6.5 creed kill elk? yes and most of the time quite well, but a 30-06 at practical ranges will likely do better on the gross average of huge sample sizes, assuming same bullet placement.
Reloading for the 06’ has been easy in the two rifles i’ve done it for. H4350 & a 165-180 grain bonded or copper bullet 0.040 jump and bam, sub MOA. Bullet selection in mid weight 30 cals are amazing. I don’t do lead because I eat a lot of game, but the Partitian, A frame, and Accubond are all excellent hunting bullets with great reputations, the CX offering from Hornady and TTSX/TSX offering from Barnes are famous monos, plus Hammer bullets, PVA, Cutting Edge, etc for all coppers. Lapua brass as well as Peterson and ADG are all easy to find in Idaho. Cheap out? just buy a few green and yellow boxes of remington and reload that brass for 24$ a box you can’t go wrong, Hornady brass is very cheap and also i’ve got very good accuracy. 06’ uses standard LR primers, which unlike LR Mag primers, I can find way easier. You can reload 30-06 in many different powder combos but In 300 PRC I’m really limited to RL26 (non existent) H1000, Retumbo, and VV570/568. All of which are very hard to find for me and were impossible during the pandemic
If you don’t reload there is a metric butt TON of different ammo at large stores in 30-06.
I’ve personally tested offerings in the following:
Federal 165 TSX, Hornady 165CX Superformance, Federal 175 Terminal Ascent, Hornady 180CX Outfitter, and Hornady 178 ELDX Precision hunter. all of which were sub MOA except the superformance which shot like crap (I’ve heard similar reports with superformance ammo).
But if those are not your fancy, you can get loaded factory ammo from Federal in: 168 Bergers, 178ELDX, 165 Scirocco, 180 Partitians, 180 TSX, Federal’s own Trophy Coppers in 165/180, their own Fusion line up (bonded), and a few more, Hornady offers 150CX & 180CX, 178ELDX, Nosler offers 165/180 accubond, partition loadings, and ballistic tips to save $. The point is if you don’t reload you likely can find a sub MOA load for hunting by buying a few boxes that also fit your needs (say you want a bonded bullet, well you have multiple offerings). Heck even SAKO has a Powerblade all copper offering that i’m eager to try (heard factory SAKO ammo is some of the best)
With a proper Muzzle brake, the recoil is tame. Can you spot your hits? not as well as a lower recoiling rifle, but prone I can spot my hits in 300 PRC once past the .5 sec TOF area easily, thats about 400 yards in 30-06 with my reloads. On a tripod its a bit of a shit show until I’m at 300+ in 30-06 for ME, but heck at 250 yards you shouldn’t be needing to spot your splash anyways because its a 250 yard chip shot right? And with all the superior shooters out there who’s form is excellent and can consistently hold 0.5 MOA all day long as i’ve read on the hide, you should be able to spot your hits at any range (bit of snark)
Really though this becomes a bit less significant when you have somebody on binos watching your shot. (I don’t hunt solo)
I’ve driven the 28 Nosler with 180 class bergers for 2 barrels, That’s an F1 car of a cartridge, and like an F1 car requires a lot of maintenance with horrendous barrel life. My 300 PRC is on its 3rd barrel and I’m averaging double that of 28 Nos, and 30-06 should get easily over 2k rounds @ 0.75 MOA ish…
I borescoped a proof 30-06 barrel at 200 rounds and the thing has the tiniest amount of fire cracking at the end of the throat where my 28N barrel looks toasted with just 490 rounds. (the 28 looks equivalent to my 300 PRC with just under 1000). Most gunsmiths have 30-06 reamers, The cartridge isn’t plagued with design errors such as the 300PRC & 7PRC “clickers” that people get modified reamers to fix. (in 300 PRC I just deal with it though and ditch the brass after 6/7 firings).
The one bad thing about the chamber design is the lack of freebore in SAAMI chambers. You’re stuck pushing the bullet down in the case, unless you run 3.850” mags and have a custom freebore cut. I stuck with SAAMI though because I wanted to be able to shoot factory ammo w/o issue in a pinch.
The 30-06 was a machine gun round… it feeds flawlessly for me just like .308 win & any similar based cartridge: .243 win, 270win, and I can’t say the same for my 28N had to go to a CRF action actually for the LA Mag cartridges to feed 99.9 perfectly. Disclosure: I don’t mag tune my lips etc…
I wouldn’t consider 30-06 for PRS if I wanted to place, but for HUNTING its a great cartridge. 6.8 Western, Nosler’s 404 Jeff based cartridges, and even the 300/7 PRC are all super performers but doesn't change the effectiveness of the 06’
I just started using 30-06 the past two years, and have grown to like it so much I’m considering getting a new bolt face for the TL3 and converting my current Mag faced rifle into an 06’
Put this way, if somebody offered me a custom build for hunting in 6.5 prc or 30-06 i’d take the 06 every single time.
…. let me offer my .2 cents that will be ignored, and i’ll be flamed…From the point of view of a hunting cartridge, the 06 is very good and I’d argue one of the absolute best hunting offerings available, is it “better” from a ballistics standpoint of most new cartridges? No, and I’d say not even close if you purely look at BC, and mil corrections, but from a big picture standpoint its pretty dang good.
In my experience from a hunting standpoint 30-06 provides logistical superiority in remote places out west / alaska. I find ammo for 30-06 in small towns across ID, MT, and AK in gas stations etc. I cannot say the same for my 300PRC. If you’ve ever had some bs happen on a hunt, had to re-zero, or your fine tuned loads all of a sudden fall apart in 20*F when you made them @ 70*F you know having ammo available is a valuable tool in the last ditch effort to save a hunt. This happened to me last year in MT.
For a project my hunting partner who’s left handed built a lefty rifle in 30-06 that I am envious of. It’s a solid 3/4 MOA avg gun, which is well inside of the accuracy requirements for a bullet that needs 2000fps to expand, 168TTSX. Inside of 450 yards (min impact velocity) if you miss its on the shooter.
The frontal sectional area of .30 cal’s just seem to put animals down better than 6.5’s etc, thats not just my opinion, but of MANY guides/outfitters who have cumulatively witnessed 1000’s of animals shot. Will a 6.5 creed kill elk? yes and most of the time quite well, but a 30-06 at practical ranges will likely do better on the gross average of huge sample sizes, assuming same bullet placement.
Reloading for the 06’ has been easy in the two rifles i’ve done it for. H4350 & a 165-180 grain bonded or copper bullet 0.040 jump and bam, sub MOA. Bullet selection in mid weight 30 cals are amazing. I don’t do lead because I eat a lot of game, but the Partitian, A frame, and Accubond are all excellent hunting bullets with great reputations, the CX offering from Hornady and TTSX/TSX offering from Barnes are famous monos, plus Hammer bullets, PVA, Cutting Edge, etc for all coppers. Lapua brass as well as Peterson and ADG are all easy to find in Idaho. Cheap out? just buy a few green and yellow boxes of remington and reload that brass for 24$ a box you can’t go wrong, Hornady brass is very cheap and also i’ve got very good accuracy. 06’ uses standard LR primers, which unlike LR Mag primers, I can find way easier. You can reload 30-06 in many different powder combos but In 300 PRC I’m really limited to RL26 (non existent) H1000, Retumbo, and VV570/568. All of which are very hard to find for me and were impossible during the pandemic
If you don’t reload there is a metric butt TON of different ammo at large stores in 30-06.
I’ve personally tested offerings in the following:
Federal 165 TSX, Hornady 165CX Superformance, Federal 175 Terminal Ascent, Hornady 180CX Outfitter, and Hornady 178 ELDX Precision hunter. all of which were sub MOA except the superformance which shot like crap (I’ve heard similar reports with superformance ammo).
But if those are not your fancy, you can get loaded factory ammo from Federal in: 168 Bergers, 178ELDX, 165 Scirocco, 180 Partitians, 180 TSX, Federal’s own Trophy Coppers in 165/180, their own Fusion line up (bonded), and a few more, Hornady offers 150CX & 180CX, 178ELDX, Nosler offers 165/180 accubond, partition loadings, and ballistic tips to save $. The point is if you don’t reload you likely can find a sub MOA load for hunting by buying a few boxes that also fit your needs (say you want a bonded bullet, well you have multiple offerings). Heck even SAKO has a Powerblade all copper offering that i’m eager to try (heard factory SAKO ammo is some of the best)
With a proper Muzzle brake, the recoil is tame. Can you spot your hits? not as well as a lower recoiling rifle, but prone I can spot my hits in 300 PRC once past the .5 sec TOF area easily, thats about 400 yards in 30-06 with my reloads. On a tripod its a bit of a shit show until I’m at 300+ in 30-06 for ME, but heck at 250 yards you shouldn’t be needing to spot your splash anyways because its a 250 yard chip shot right? And with all the superior shooters out there who’s form is excellent and can consistently hold 0.5 MOA all day long as i’ve read on the hide, you should be able to spot your hits at any range (bit of snark)
Really though this becomes a bit less significant when you have somebody on binos watching your shot. (I don’t hunt solo)
I’ve driven the 28 Nosler with 180 class bergers for 2 barrels, That’s an F1 car of a cartridge, and like an F1 car requires a lot of maintenance with horrendous barrel life. My 300 PRC is on its 3rd barrel and I’m averaging double that of 28 Nos, and 30-06 should get easily over 2k rounds @ 0.75 MOA ish…
I borescoped a proof 30-06 barrel at 200 rounds and the thing has the tiniest amount of fire cracking at the end of the throat where my 28N barrel looks toasted with just 490 rounds. (the 28 looks equivalent to my 300 PRC with just under 1000). Most gunsmiths have 30-06 reamers, The cartridge isn’t plagued with design errors such as the 300PRC & 7PRC “clickers” that people get modified reamers to fix. (in 300 PRC I just deal with it though and ditch the brass after 6/7 firings).
The one bad thing about the chamber design is the lack of freebore in SAAMI chambers. You’re stuck pushing the bullet down in the case, unless you run 3.850” mags and have a custom freebore cut. I stuck with SAAMI though because I wanted to be able to shoot factory ammo w/o issue in a pinch.
The 30-06 was a machine gun round… it feeds flawlessly for me just like .308 win & any similar based cartridge: .243 win, 270win, and I can’t say the same for my 28N had to go to a CRF action actually for the LA Mag cartridges to feed 99.9 perfectly. Disclosure: I don’t mag tune my lips etc…
I wouldn’t consider 30-06 for PRS if I wanted to place, but for HUNTING its a great cartridge. 6.8 Western, Nosler’s 404 Jeff based cartridges, and even the 300/7 PRC are all super performers but doesn't change the effectiveness of the 06’
I just started using 30-06 the past two years, and have grown to like it so much I’m considering getting a new bolt face for the TL3 and converting my current Mag faced rifle into an 06’
Put this way, if somebody offered me a custom build for hunting in 6.5 prc or 30-06 i’d take the 06 every single time.
Some of us prefer the SKILL of making an “obsolete “ platform do what the latest whiz-bang can do!Yeah, I hunt with muzzle loaders, and archery equipment. They’re both so effective that they have their own special seasons.
You know what else is obsolete? 45 acp. Waxed canvas duck clothing. LL Bean boots. Flannel, anything. Break action long arms. Pump action long arms. Lever action long arms. Revolvers. That aught’a get some hate stirring…
Do you know what the plus side is? We get to buy more new toys!
I don’t know, living in a region that has World famous fishing I’ve seen a lot of moneyed fishermen do some odd things!Yeah, archery is worse than fishing…
Back in High School we did a story opening weekend and had a fisherman in full Orvis gear (including waders) fly fishing from a bridge. He caught a rainbow trout and almost had it in the net and the fish spit out the hook!
Talk about chagrined!
We ALL spend money chasing the next best thing! Right now, I am working on lead free loads
for 38-55 Winchester and 221 Fireball. Who’s more foolish? On the other hand, I’ve found the lead free options give me better groups than the cup and core bullets.
Barnes 140 TSX are “money” from my Two-sebumdy.I don’t know, living in a region that has World famous fishing I’ve seen a lot of moneyed fishermen do some odd things!
Back in High School we did a story opening weekend and had a fisherman in full Orvis gear (including waders) fly fishing from a bridge. He caught a rainbow trout and almost had it in the net and the fish spit out the hook!
Talk about chagrined!
We ALL spend money chasing the next best thing! Right now, I am working on lead free loads
On the other hand, I’ve found the lead free options give me better groups than the cup and core bullets.
I’ve gone to “Hammers “ only because I can get them, but I’m impressed with other’s results. That and I can get some “Obsolete “ diameters by asking for them. 22 Savage and 32 Winchester Special are leaders.
My 221 Fireball with Hammer Hunter is pushing 3200 fps!
X’ers unite! The ‘06 with modern bullets and powders rock! One foot on each side of the line! Just because it’s older doesn’t mean it WORKS!
I had to buy my own Serengeti reamer and go/nogo gauges from PTG. Then I provided http://ar15barrels.com/ (aka Randall Rausch in Los Angeles) the reamer and gauges. He did excellent rebarreling and bedding a standard Walnut-stocked Remington 700 with a 26" 10-twist Bartlein barrel into a 190gr SMK hammer. Put a TriggerTech Special and SJC Titan Extreme brake on it and it recoils like a .223. Rounded it out with Wyatt's .30-06 detachable box mag bottom metal which gave all the room and then some for long pointy bullets with no concern for cartridge length.
Like Frank Green says, unless you are using 190gr SMKs and up, you will not see the benefit of the Serengeti chamber. I have been following German Salazar's loadings to good success. These guys know way more than I ever will, so I just pushed the easy button and followed their recommendations. Rifle came out so good another visiting gun smith at the time of build completion offered to buy it. Needless to say, I passed.
More like: a modern day .30-06 marksman is a .308 rifleman that finished his training.
6.5x55?
Should at least be somewhat comparable.
As long as they accomplish what you are hoping to achieve, how can revelance go away? In other words have fun with what you want to do. You don't have to yuck another person's yum.
We are supposed to be nicer in this section. Just mean it's not required to yuck not that you can't. That's just more of a bear pit type discussion.First day on the internet?
Not even close.
Oh sorry. Im being mean again.
Yeah sure. I forgot about the 6.5x55.
Other smith who does really good bedding jobs and works with Randall Rausch is Jim Davis in Venice, CA. Sometimes Randall gets too busy with action work that he sends inletting and bedding work to Jim. Jim has done great work and he is old school proper on stock work and is one of the only smiths I know who uses a micrometer bias gauge for measuring bedding deviations and barrel-stock/chassis corrections. In other words, he is the guy you go to when someone else messed up a bedding job or that action line of sight is off by that annoying degree or two from the stock/chassis axis and you want it fixed once and for all. Cheers!
Reading this thread reminded me that I need to dust this ol' gal off and put some rounds through her shortly... One day when the original barrel is toast I'll get a Bartlein from @Frank Green to take advantage of some heavier bullets, but for now she still slings the old Lapua D46 like a champ. The grand old '06 is still relevant to me for sure!
Had a good one going until I shanked that last round to the bottom left lol
Had a good one going until I shanked that last round to the bottom left lol
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